The Sound Update Thread (The Return)
- Thread starter TayeezSA
- 1,178 comments
- 146,839 views
- 8,715
Without going into too much detail, "AES" (from a file extension / format name used by PD) is a forward synthesis method that takes inputs like the number of cylinders, firing orders and other things and generates a sound. It was used on the Red Bull cars first in GT6. The usual method is to play back several recordings and blend between them: "sampling". AES has great potential for customisation and response, and player-made content...I would like to know more what you mean with the AES system and the mix between technologies, accuracy and production style. (because I am a noob in this area)
Lastly you also said that there is lack of a dedicated intake channel, is this also the case for the exhaust note? Due to what I am hearing there is barely any audio of the exhaust going into the chase came and just a much higher volume of how the front camera sounds like.
It is good to hear back from you @Griffith500.
The "mix of technologies" refers to AES and sampling - the Corvette clearly uses some of PD's trusty old samples (not new ones) and other cars, such as the FT-1, use AES for the exhaust only. Just like in GT6, those cars that use AES also use samples for the "engine" (mechanical) note - this helps with the interior views.
The "mix of accuracy" is simply a reference to the fact that some cars in GT Sport sound closer to the real thing than others - par for the course for most racing games, but GT is probably more notorious for its inconsistencies (V8s in particular, historically).
The "mix of production styles" is a little more personal / subjective, and I was referring to the way some cars are still quite plain sounding overall and others are comparatively, uh, "rich" (e.g. distortion, crackles, clunky gearboxes etc.). This would be because there is no single approach used on all cars, since the game is still being made. I suspect it's the difference between carry-over sounds from GT6 and those specially mixed for Sport / the beta.
I'm still hearing the same separate exhaust / engine combo that GT has always had. What seems to be happening in the chase cam is the movement is not affecting the sound mix - the engine audio is directionally mixed as though you are behind the car, regardless - it's the same sound, louder or quieter. There is seemingly less variation in the external shots in replays, too. This is probably to address the weakness of using directional sound sources (starting on PS3), when one of the sources (the mechanical "engine" note) is significantly lacking in terms of accuracy and excitement, considering what it is being used for.
An engine is effectively a reciprocating pump (ignoring the fuel burning bit...), it makes noise drawing air in just as much as it makes noise blowing exhaust gases back out. The induction / intake note is extremely important in all engines, in all states of tune, but especially in standard road cars (and even more for bikes...). Adding intake would require an extra audio channel to mix, if you're going to do it right, and I think that was the stumbling block in previous games (once they realised they weren't actually recording cars in a way that would accurately capture the intake sound, back before GT4 released). I personally found that synthesising intake notes was far harder than synthesising exhaust notes, I wonder if PD also had that problem.
- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
Given on that massive 1.05v update, I think we should adress on PD on what we like to hear on the "audio" (props to Mike leading PD in a right direction). First and foremost I would like an option to reduce or enhance sound effects.
That way we would be able to tweak how we want tire sound, transmission whine, blow off valve, intake etc etc to sound to our own liking.
Second of all I would like to hear more sound effects on the environment and when the car loses traction and end up on the grass or dirt.(Where you can hear gravel or dirt hitting the bottom of the chassis something GT6 had).
Last of all: Improved "rally sound" (This includes also the sound of the car itself) Now I know there has not been any sign of rally or dirt driving in the beta but the amount of details that can be added to make it feel like you are driving on dirt can be enhanced much more then previous build. It suppose to give you a a type of feel that you are driving on the dirt!
That way we would be able to tweak how we want tire sound, transmission whine, blow off valve, intake etc etc to sound to our own liking.
Second of all I would like to hear more sound effects on the environment and when the car loses traction and end up on the grass or dirt.(Where you can hear gravel or dirt hitting the bottom of the chassis something GT6 had).
Last of all: Improved "rally sound" (This includes also the sound of the car itself) Now I know there has not been any sign of rally or dirt driving in the beta but the amount of details that can be added to make it feel like you are driving on dirt can be enhanced much more then previous build. It suppose to give you a a type of feel that you are driving on the dirt!
- 4,381
This is all good to know, but the sounds are almost completely off and only slightly better than previous GT games. The tire squeal is far too loud and linear as well as the trans whine. The engines however, do not sound like the actual car; its just a "wrrrrr" sound as the car goes by. There's virtually no exhaust sound or depth and character in the sounds. All cars sound like that. I can't believe they're still not taking this seriously with Weizwel on board.
Yes, I have played GTS several times at my neighbors and seen all the gameplay and replay videos to date.
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
Love all the new detailed pops,gurgles, bangs, squeaks, chassis rattles and shifting noises, they're definitely moving in the right direction after 1.05v
GTsport AM V12 GR3.
Toyota FT1 GR3.
Mustang GR3
Standard Production cars got a new shifting noise aswell.
Focus ST.
Genesis 3.8 track. love the smooth sounds of the V6. can't remember how this sounded in GT6...because all i remember was a was sounded like a air compressor.
So far, i'm extremely impressed, with our feedback they will only get better from here, but man driving is so enjoyable.
GTsport AM V12 GR3.
Toyota FT1 GR3.
Mustang GR3
Standard Production cars got a new shifting noise aswell.
Focus ST.
Genesis 3.8 track. love the smooth sounds of the V6. can't remember how this sounded in GT6...because all i remember was a was sounded like a air compressor.
So far, i'm extremely impressed, with our feedback they will only get better from here, but man driving is so enjoyable.
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- 4,381
They have indeed made improvements, thanks largely due to Weiswel's intervention - unfortunately, they seem to be focusing a lot on everything BUT the engine and exhaust notes and how they sound in replays. It's still missing that grunt, dynamic depth and "real life awe" factor.
Oh well, they deserve some slack until release. Let's see how it all pans out. Competition is stiff!
- 16,166
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
The FT-1 sounds like the TS040 (at least in Project Cars). The Mustang reminds me of a V8 Supercar, but it isn't exact. Lacking intensity. Still very good for GT.
Well it kinda sounds like this... But I'm probably going to be crucified because of this claim.
- 8,715
We seem to be using different labels for the sound components.
The "engine" component is what I call the mechanical noise, which is all whirr, whine, tapping, clattering, pumps, belts, chains, block vibrations, knocking etc. etc.
What a lot of people call engine is really the meaty intake grunt.
GT's historic problem is the prominence of the engine sound, especially in certain views, on certain hardware combinations (e.g. incomplete 5.1 mix over HDMI to stereo output) along with an almost total lack of intake representation.
The engine's contribution has been largely fixed (better balanced) in Sport from what I hear, but there is still a lack of intake sound. The intake sound is usually the most responsive to inputs, not least because the throttles directly influence the volume heard.
By "Weizweil" do you mean Mike Caviezel? I did warn that his position is not so senior as people had assumed, hoped, or asserted would be the case. They have nevertheless made quite a bit of progress so far, and I would expect modest improvements still to come, mainly from the samples used. Anything that is a direct GT6 carryover will unsurprisingly sound like GT6, including the audio / physics / controls interaction, e.g. gear changes.
- 5,655
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
@Griffith500 have you heard the lotus Evora I think its one of the best sounding cars in the game. Im really loving the chasis noise and now PD gave the production cars chassis noise. It sounds great just need to make it a little louder.
- 4,381
Blimey! I did mean Caviezel - don't know why I keep mixing him up!
Well, that's a shame. I thought he was high up the chain. Wish he had stuck with T10.
- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
In the case of intake noise, it's definitely there, however ALOT is lost through youtube(seriously) i would love to do a direct capture, the Genesis alone sounds amazing on my TV, very very deep bellow. i plan on doing more videos later.
- 5,655
- Edison NJ
- jdmking13
- Lucid killer 58
Bro I was watching youtube video on the Genesis, and I think PD did a great job with that car, I can even here the sound the car makes in between shifts.
- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
In terms of sound explain why Asseto Corsa, Project Cars, Forza and R3E all sound really good and that Gran Turismo always gets left behind because "Youtube compresses the audio file". It is not the case of the video being compressed nor does the best audio system out there is what makes GT sounds how it is. IT is the lack of modeling of the INTAKE sound as @Griffith500 point out
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- 2,980
- Greensboro/NC/U
- jarod336/GTP_torque
- Paperorplastic/ manherollen
i'm not normally to use the "youtube compression" argument, but in this case, the Genesis sounds way different compared to that video then on my actual tv, it's alot "deeper". is what i'm saying.
- 34
- Sailboy
I did a no hud video of the internal view of the Mclaren 650s Gr.3 just to try to capture the sound more. Im pretty happy with the sound improvements so far. Definitely heading in the right direction.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
The same applies to other games as well. They all sound better at the source.
- 1,167
- Paradera
- SDSPOWER01
Ok let me put it this way, I completely understand what you mean. However I have seen countless videos on Youtube for GT6 and Yes it does sound completely different when I play it in person, but the fact that I hear that same distinctive "vacuum cleaner noise" whether I play it or not makes me believe the sound where never good to begin with on some cars.
In GT sport this is not the case most if not all the car sounds decent with some being accurate, but it does not change the fact however that it still sound synthetic when going into higher RPM's, the transmission whine being too loud on some cars with just a pitch going either higher or lower depending on the car throttle (with no wobbling, trembling etc etc). the version 1.05 introduced the chassis creak, some "wind"noise (Which I think is just the tire going on the road) and some improvent when the cars is revving you can hear it in the genesis (bumpumpumpumpum) etc etc. But it still needs lots of work IMO in order to get it to sound "satisfying" because now they gone from rate (5-10) to (7-10).
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
That sounds bad IMO, the transmission noise is different and too prominent compared to the engine note which isn't accurate and sounds very muted:
But yes, compared to previous GT's that would still be a major improvement
.- 34
- Sailboy
That sounds bad IMO, the transmission noise is different and too prominent compared to the engine note which isn't accurate and sounds very muted:
But yes, compared to previous GT's that would still be a major improvement
Personally I think multiple things are at play here, the location of the camera and the quality of the recording device. I think this is the reason why the whine is so high. Another theory could just be they are still improving the sounds, since with each update so far the sounds have been tweaked more and more and not all of it has been from user feedback.
To add to my theory, same car different camera locations and camera types. Just listen to the difference just going from the cage mount in the back to the helmet cam.
Time will tell, so far what I have seen makes me more optimistic
- 16,166
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
This is what we have to remember about GT Sport.But yes, compared to previous GT's that would still be a major improvement
mister dog
(Banned)
- 8,396
- Spain
- misterdog
- misterdog7
Yeah, it's a small step in the good direction but it could have been a giant leap considering PD's budget.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
When you go to make a purchase, do you compare to similar products on the market or do you compare to what the same product was like 10 years ago?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
That instantaneous shifting thing in GTSport is a real immersion killer. The off throttle and deceleration sounds in Forza are lightyears ahead. Engine sounds throatier and has more character as well. GTS is like a monotonous up and down pitch most of the time. GTS has a long way to go just to get to Forza sound levels IMO.
- 4,381
That still sounds weak and synthesized. The trans whine is too loud to begin with and there's no wobbling or flexing sound of the trans on deceleration. I wish they would up the intake, engine and exhaust sound and make it more detailed, but it looks like GT is going to make do with mediocre sound yet another generation.
That sounds bad IMO, the transmission noise is different and too prominent compared to the engine note which isn't accurate and sounds very muted:
But yes, compared to previous GT's that would still be a major improvement
Well, minor improvements here and there, but not convincing at all. Not a game I would immerse myself in happily simply because of how the cars sound.
Right, it really does kill the realism. GT truly has a LONG way to go, especially with FM7 coming out - who knows what T10 have up their sleeves, as they made a number of improvements between F5-6, granted a few missteps were present. Do pardon the off-topic gents!
- 1,820
- Ireland
- turnupdaheat
The TTs is equiped with a DSG transmission renowned for its instantaneous shifting. As for the engine sound, the TTs does not have the most sonerous engine sound and while you may have a preference for Forza"s portrayal I believe it sounds nothing like the real thing.
Having said that, I do fuĺly apreciate that people's taste in engine sounds can wildly differ. Take the GT3 RS for example. I'm of the opinion it's one of the greatest and urgent sounding cars around while you think it has a droning and underwhelming nature.
I suppose it would be an awfully boring place if we all agreed on everything
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- 4,381
The TTs is equiped with a DSG transmission renowned for its instantaneous shifting. As for the engine sound, the TTs does not have the most sonerous engine sound and while you may have a preference for Forza"s portrayal I believe it sounds nothing like the real thing.
Having said that, I do fuĺly apreciate that people's taste in engine sounds can wildly differ. Take the GT3 RS for example. I'm of the opinion it's one of the greatest and urgent sounding cars around while you think it has a droning and underwhelming nature.
I suppose it would be an awfully boring place if we all agreed on everything
I am strictly speaking from a car enthusiast POV and someone who has a raw passion for motorsport, not as a fan of any franchise:
The sounds in GTS are not consistent or realistic - it sounds like more of the same from previous games with minor touch ups. I don't think its fair to bring up Forza sounds because those guys have set a benchmark and very few products on console at least, have been able to touch the same level. Again, strictly speaking as someone who loves cars and racing, and has spent a fair amount of time around them.
- 1,391
- vermont
- diesel4x497
Why is this not fair to bring up? PD has been making games a lot longer than most, so there is no reason why they can't achieve the same level
- 4,381
The reason I said that is because T10 is ions ahead of PD in terms of how they record and recreate sound. It's cool that you are keeping your hopes up but knowing Kaz and PD's general approach, don't expect any major changes to how the game sounds. Are you on Forza BTW?
On achieving things, sure.. they could improve sounds, if they wanted to. But they won't. Just another "history repeating itself" episode.
