The Trump Impeachment Thread

  • Thread starter Dotini
  • 2,103 comments
  • 84,745 views

Will the current Articles of Impeachment ever be sent from the House to the Senate?

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
Joey D
Oh, I firmly believe he's a terrible person, but since I don't know him personally I don't want to state it as a fact. I also don't have the desire to ever know him.
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I don't know Hitler personally but I can pretty firmly state as a fact that he was a terrible person.
 
Not sure how the whitehouse is going to spin this:



duffey.omb.email.with.source.jpg
 
Joey D
It's really easy for most people to find something to fault Trump for. The amount of people who truly think Trump is good is probably very small. I think most people voted for him in 2016 simply because he wasn't Hillary, not because they thought he had good ideas.
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That said, he ties with Obama as the most admired person of 2019.
 
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baldgye
But then two of the most evil men alive are in the top 10... so I’m not sure what meaningful information you can take from being the most ‘admired’...
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We should definitely watch out for Ronaldo and Messi.

It looks like the yougov poll is based on the input of people from 41 countries, while the gallup poll is only from the U.S.
 
DesertPenguin
I don't know Hitler personally but I can pretty firmly state as a fact that he was a terrible person.
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Trump hasn't committed genocide. Hitler was downright evil, whereas Trump isn't, he's just a blowhard who's not very smart and has an ego the size of Texas.

ROAD_DOGG33J
That said, he ties with Obama as the most admired person of 2019.
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Looking at a Gallup poll, you will need to take in an important caveat. The surveying company only asks about 1,000 people and then extrapolates its results from that. While I'm sure its method is sound, I feel like that's not a big enough sample size to represent America. However, if you think about it, it pretty much goes down the divisional split in the country. In 2016, Trump got 46% of the votes while Clinton got 48%, so roughly a 50/50 split. It makes sense that they were tied.

This isn't to say Obama is worth admiring though. I still think he was a pretty bad president, mainly because he bombed the hell out of somewhere every day of his presidency. I'm not cool with that.
 
ROAD_DOGG33J
We should definitely watch out for Ronaldo and Messi.

It looks like the yougov poll is based on the input of people from 41 countries, while the gallup poll is only from the U.S.
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So sorry, it’s hard to pick the ‘right’ poll when you don’t bother to link you source...
 
Biggles
...it occurred to him that having Ukraine announce an investigation into Hunter Biden would be a similarly effective way to derail Joe Biden's run for the Democratic nomination.
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I keep seeing this, I watched much of the hearings but I don't recall hearing this. Which witness said that Trump just wanted an announcement from Ukraine? I quoted @Biggles, but anyone can answer.
Joey D
Trump literally admitted what he did.
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I keep seeing this too, but I don't recall the president confessing.
 
Dotini
This forum is so one-sided against Trump, and since I started the thread I guess its up to someone to say something in order to keep up the semblance of fairness and balance. You must admit it would be pretty boring if there was no controversy, nobody to fear and loathe.
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There are ways to be engaged and interested without inciting hatred. I find it mildly disgusting that you would incite fear and loathing to avoid being bored. That's basically the definition of an internet troll.
 
Chrunch Houston
I keep seeing this, I watched much of the hearings but I don't recall hearing this. Which witness said that Trump just wanted an announcement from Ukraine? I quoted @Biggles, but anyone can answer.
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I don't have time to go through hundreds of pages of testimony from Sondland, Vindman, Williams, Taylor, Hill & others. You could take a look at this summary of Ambassador Sondland's testimony.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gordon...-impeachment-inquiry-live-updates-2019-11-05/

It seems clear that Trump dispatched his "personal lawyer", Rudy Giuliani, to pursue his goals in Ukraine, sidestepping the normal State Department channels & aimed primarily at achieving Trump's particular personal objectives. As Trump has refused to allow White House officials like Bolton, Mulvaney & Pompeo to testify (obstruction of Congress) the impressions of the career diplomats listed above & the phone calls recorded & overheard comprise the bulk of the evidence.
 
Imari
There are ways to be engaged and interested without inciting hatred. I find it mildly disgusting that you would incite fear and loathing to avoid being bored. That's basically the definition of an internet troll.
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It's 'dog pile on the conservative point of view' around here. I don't know how @ryzno, or @Dotini do it.
 
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Chrunch Houston
It's 'dog pile on the conservative point of view' around here. I don't know how @ryzno, or @Dotini do it.
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Comes out of lurking.

No, it really isn't. People disagreeing with your opinion =/= dogpiling. What is happening in this thread is that people's viewpoints are getting challenged back and forth, and when someone tries to skirt around an issue, or be intellectually dishonest, they get called out for it, and rightfully so. That's what happens in a debate, especially one of the political variety. If having your viewpoints challenged bothers you, perhaps you should reduce how much time you spend on this thread/subforum.

Also, to my recollection I've not seen anybody diss actual conservatism/conservative viewpoints in this thread, likely because it would be completely off-topic.

Also, to @ryzno 's credit, while, I definitely don't agree with most of his viewpoints (At least in this thread) I do greatly appreciate that he seems to present his viewpoints honestly with relatively little-to-no BS. Meanwhile, a particular other user consistently skirts around people's questions, constantly moves goalposts around, and pretty much admits that his comments are made to cause chaos/confusion/fear mongering because it's "fun." The latter is, in my opinion, more-or-less how our country got into its current position, and if nothing else has happened in the last 3+ years (or really the last 100 or so), it should've been made abundantly clear how dangerous such a thought process is to our country, in both domestic and international affairs.

As for my personal take on the post-impeachment process, I'm particularly upset that one-half of my country's representatives have basically said "No, we will not carry out the duty that was assigned to us as members of the Senate. We will basically drag our feet, ignore the evidence, and do whatever we can to keep our man from being removed, ignoring the fact that any regular citizen who has/had done the same would be unemployed and/or in a jail cell, because we value our party allegiance moreso than our duty to represent and act on the best interests of the American Population." Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but that's what's being said in effect, and it's crazy to me how people aren't reacting more to that, because it sets up a very dangerous precedent for the future.

This greatly bothers me because, as someone who's aware that people have literally freaking died for my right to vote and for my right to voice my pleasure/displeasure with my government, I hold the electoral process in very high regard. Trumps presidency puts the legitimacy of my (and others) ability to vote into very real, and very grave territory. He needs to be removed, if for no other reason than to send a message of "no, the president is not above the law, and we do not tolerate even the possibility of foreign interference in our voting process." (I say possibility because I do believe that there was foreign interference in the previous election, but I do acknowledge that nothing 100% concrete was found) I would happily die on that hill no matter who was in office.

And no, I am neither a Democrat nor a Republican. The last 3 years have shattered any chance there may have been for me to ally with either party.

Goes back to lurking
 
Chrunch Houston
It's 'dog pile on the conservative point of view' around here. I don't know how @ryzno, or @Dotini do it.
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I mean, spreading lies and misinformation is far easier than dealing with reality and facts.... if I was a conservative (a party in the U.K. I’ve voted for in the past), I’d be horrified someone as ignorant and thick as Trump was my representative on a global stage.
 
Biggles
I don't have time to go through hundreds of pages of testimony from Sondland, Vindman, Williams, Taylor, Hill & others. You could take a look at this summary of Ambassador Sondland's testimony.
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I'm just asking, because people keep saying.

NotThePrez
"No, we will not carry out the duty that was assigned to us as members of the Senate. We will basically drag our feet, ignore the evidence, and do whatever we can to keep our man from being removed, ignoring the fact that any regular citizen who has/had done the same would be unemployed and/or in a jail cell, because we value our party allegiance moreso than our duty to represent and act on the best interests of the American Population."
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NotThePrez
"no, the president is not above the law, and we do not tolerate even the possibility of foreign interference in our voting process."
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Now, who are you quoting? I don't recall any witness say any of those thing either.
 
Chrunch Houston
It's 'dog pile on the conservative point of view' around here. I don't know how @ryzno, or @Dotini do it.
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@ryzno's all right. At least he's not afraid to admit when he hasn't got something quite right and tries to learn from it. The other guy seems to enter full insult mode when called on his statements and goes into victim mode, much as you've done above.

Chrunch Houston
Now, who are you quoting? I don't recall any witness say any of those thing either.
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You must have missed the part where he said:

NotThePrez
Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but that's what's being said in effect, and it's crazy to me how people aren't reacting more to that, because it sets up a very dangerous precedent for the future.
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Paraphrasing is not fake noos.
 
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Chrunch Houston
It's 'dog pile on the conservative point of view' around here. I don't know how @ryzno, or @Dotini do it.
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That's not dogpiling on the conservative, because I don't think all conservatives are trolls. Dotini says he's not a supporter of Trump, but he acts as though he is because "it would be pretty boring if there was no controversy, nobody to fear and loathe".

That's what a troll does, my dude. They find the most inflammatory thing that they can post and they post it because it's inflammatory. Maybe that's what you define as "conservative", but I certainly don't.

Again, Dotini has explicitly admitted to not supporting Trump. It's not about Trump or conservatism. It's about behaving in a way to maximise conflict regardless of what you personally believe. That's not discussion in good faith, that's trolling, and I believe in calling a spade a spade.

And like others, I would not conflate Dotini and @ryzno. Ryzno's views may differ from mine, but he's willing to converse in good faith and makes an effort so that we can all at least understand each other's viewpoints. Ryzno's a good egg, even if we don't necessarily agree.
 
Chrunch Houston
It's 'dog pile on the conservative point of view' around here.
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It's become hard to figure out what exactly the "conservative point of view" is these days. Fiscal responsibility? Definitely not. Respect for constitutional norms? No. Respect for military service? Not really. Respect for life-time public servants in the State Department, the FBI, the CIA? No. Respect for other Republican politicians who are perceived as rivals? No. Respect for foreign allies & traditional alliances? No. Respect for immigrants trying to pursue a better life for themselves & their families? Not at all. Respect for his wife(s)? Apparently not.

I could go on & on. It's Trump who has dumped a "dog pile on the conservative point of view". What is puzzling to us is why a self-styled "conservative" would support Trump at all. What's even MORE puzzling is why a self-styled "libertarian" (ie Dotini) would carry the torch for Trump.
 
Biggles
What's even MORE puzzling is why a self-styled "libertarian" (ie Dotini) would carry the torch for Trump.
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Simply because I'm an inveterate infracaninophile, and (uniquely) like to play the devil's advocate on my favorite forum. You might think I have masochistic tendencies, but you'd be wrong. I intend to get the last laugh. *laughs maniacally* :lol:
'The saddest words of tongue and pen are these, "It might have been"'. - John Greenleaf Whittier
'The happiest words are, "I told you so"'. - Gore Vidal​

Trey Gowdy played golf with the Prez a couple days ago, and discusses impeachment defense strategy with a Fox reporter yesterday:

 

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