The Trump Impeachment Thread

[Famine]

I've only seen Presidents use pens like that. Like when Obama signed the ACA. He used a pen for every letter. I believe Trump has also, I don't remember what for though.

It's a little crass, but who really cares. They're just mementos of an important occasion. This is a "nothingburger" if I ever saw one. The house could have behaved worse, and some of them wanted to, but they kept it under control.

Meh

I've genuinely never seen anything like it before. I remember Reagan and Gorbachev sitting down together after Iceland, signing their respective copies of the ballistic missile treaty with a pen each. If Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev had a commemorative pen for each letter in his name, they'd still be signing the bloody thing.

I do think it's pretty weird to mark the failure of all checks and balances up to this point and having to rely on the final step of taking legal action against the country's elected leader with a gleeful signing ceremony... and hashtag. Sure it's important, but is it an occasion for joy and celebration? I wasn't really paying too much attention when it happened with Clinton, but it felt more like a sense of shock and amazement that this thing had to happen. And it's not like he's gone yet - the actual trial is yet to come.


So what happens to the pens afterwards anyway? Can Trump get one for the Oval Office?

 

[TexRex]

Could we be so lucky that it stays that way?

Indeed, though I have the nagging suspicion it isn't actually that way now. I suspect there's more newsworthy things going on right now...but then that's largely informed by my position that those two things aren't particularly newsworthy.

 

[Danoff]

I've genuinely never seen anything like it before. I remember Reagan and Gorbachev sitting down together after Iceland, signing their respective copies of the ballistic missile treaty with a pen each. If Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev had a commemorative pen for each letter in his name, they'd still be signing the bloody thing.

I do think it's pretty weird to mark the failure of all checks and balances up to this point and having to rely on the final step of taking legal action against the country's elected leader with a gleeful signing ceremony... and hashtag. Sure it's important, but is it an occasion for joy and celebration? I wasn't really paying too much attention when it happened with Clinton, but it felt more like a sense of shock and amazement that this thing had to happen. And it's not like he's gone yet - the actual trial is yet to come.


So what happens to the pens afterwards anyway? Can Trump get one for the Oval Office?

I'm not happy they did it. And I'm not saying that historically it wouldn't have been seen as important. But these days I feel like it's mild by comparison. Back in the day, a congressperson saying "we're going to impeach the mother******" would have been considered shocking and horrible and grounds for a recall or whatever. But it's apparently the new business as usual.

 

[Kano Manel]

Not a word about the conclusions of the Congress’s nonpartisan watchdog, or Parnas and Trump's denial in the New York Times... wtf! I live in UK, I don't know how the press works in USA. But I'm shocked by the poor coverage of the news papers.

 

[Joey D]

So what happens to the pens afterwards anyway? Can Trump get one for the Oval Office?

To my knowledge, they're given out as souvenirs to people who contribute a bunch of money or do something important for the party. When I sold jewelry and antiques, we had an insanely rich client who was a massive donor to the GOP. When I went to his mansion to take in some stuff on a consignment he had a pen in a glass case that was supposedly used by President Bush the Older for something I can't seem to remember.

It seems weird that Pelosi did it though. I'm guessing she's going to hand them out to her BFFs (that's best fundraisers forever).

 

[Kano Manel]

Online newspapers don't have the latest in their main pages. Embarrassing. I had this romantic idea about the american press, but after this... what a let down. Looking to see the paper versions, perhaps some improvement there.

 

[Joey D]

Embarrassing. I had this romantic idea about the american press, but after this... what a let down.

I'm sorry for this but

The American press, for the most part, is all about delivering information that makes money. Most of the major news outlets seem to be focused on a handful of things that they just continue to harp on. I'm guessing we even have more coverage on the whole Prince Harry and Princess (Dutchess? Princess by Marriage?) Megan Markel then you do in the UK. For whatever reason, the American media secretly wishes we were still under the rule of the crown or something.

 

[Dotini]

Not a word about the conclusions of the Congress’s nonpartisan watchdog, or Parnas and Trump's denial in the New York Times... wtf! I live in UK, I don't know how the press works in USA. But I'm shocked by the poor coverage of the news papers.

View attachment 882417

A report by the GAO is not overly important by itself, and is not terribly unusual. Sort of a housekeeping thing.

Republicans were unmoved by the findings, either claiming that they haven’t read GAO’s analysis or that it doesn’t mean much for the Senate impeachment trial.

“I wouldn’t think that a GAO opinion, per se, would change anything,” said Senate Appropriations Chairman Richard Shelby (R-Ala.). “But we’ll listen to it, we’ll look at it and we’ll evaluate it.“

“I don’t think they should be deciding who broke the law,” he added.

Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas) said the report “identifies OMB, not the president. And it identifies policy reasons, not political reasons. I think we’re going to hear some more about it, but I don’t think that changes anything.“

Rep. Tom Cole (R-Okla.), the ranking Republican on the House Labor-HHS-Education spending panel, conceded that OMB’s action might deserve some scrutiny. But it doesn’t hurt the president, he said.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...ezing-ukraine-aid-gao-says-099682?cid=impch_m

 

[ryzno]

Not a word about the conclusions of the Congress’s nonpartisan watchdog, or Parnas and Trump's denial in the New York Times... wtf! I live in UK, I don't know how the press works in USA. But I'm shocked by the poor coverage of the news papers.

View attachment 882417

You've lost me.
I don't know what you're talking about.
I don't know what Congress nonpartisan watchdog you're talking about.
I have no idea what Parnas is.
And Trumps denial of what? He denies a lot of things he's done.

I'm not trying to be an arse I honestly don't know what you're talking about and I'm American. Can you or someone elaborate on what I'm missing?

 

[Kano Manel]

I'm shocked. But originally I'm from spain, so... I have learnt not to judge (if you don't judge me for being spaniard I won't judge you for being american ). I mean... we also have a lot to avoid in the main pages of the newspapers.

It's just sad, because I grew up with the concept that america is the land of the free and americans are the good guys and the press is free over there and people fight for democracy etc etc etc. I come from a country where the civil war was forbidden in the school books until the late 90's, for us the freedom of information that you enjoy (allegedly) is a luxury.

 

[TexRex]

I don't know what Congress nonpartisan watchdog you're talking about.

Government Accountability Office (GAO).

I have no idea what Parnas is.

Lev Parnas, cohort of Rudy Giuliani.

And Trumps denial of what?

That he's conspired with--or even met--Lev Parnas.

 

[Dotini]

Pelosi and Democrats are feuding with Facebook.

tensions between the tech titan and Democrats have escalated in the week since Facebook defied Democrats' calls and announced it wouldn't police the accuracy of ads run by politicians on their site.

Democrats warned the policy will benefit Trump in 2020, especially because his campaign has already been able to run unchecked ads making misleading claims about former vice president Joe Biden.

https://www.greenwichtime.com/news/...ok-slam-reflects-rising-tensions-14983267.php

 

[Joey D]

It's just sad, because I grew up with the concept that america is the land of the free and americans are the good guys and the press is free over there and people fight for democracy etc etc etc. I come from a country where the civil war was forbidden in the school books until the late 90's, for us the freedom of information that you enjoy (allegedly) is a luxury.

Don't get me wrong, America is still a nation that values freedom of the press. It's just that the main media companies use their freedom to publish nonsense and act as more of infotainment instead of pure information. There's nothing wrong with those companies doing that, what is the problem is that consumers of the media take it as the gods truth instead of thinking for themselves.

Pelosi and Democrats are feuding with Facebook.

Probably because Facebook is a terrible company. I mean they have the right to run their business as they see fit, but at the same time, I think they're unethical and I think Zuckerberg is an absolute weasel with a punchable face.

 

[ryzno]

Probably because Facebook is a terrible company. I mean they have the right to run their business as they see fit, but at the same time, I think they're unethical and I think Zuckerberg is an absolute weasel with a punchable face.

TBH I think he's doing this in retaliation for the fines and being paraded around in Congress after the 2016 election.

 

[Biggles]

Pelosi and Democrats are feuding with Facebook.

Democrats warned the policy will benefit Trump in 2020, especially because his campaign has already been able to run unchecked ads making misleading claims about former vice president Joe Biden.

Or, simply put, a lot of politicians lie a lot of the time, but Trump lies more than anyone else, giving him an "unfair advantage" on social media.

So: Ken Starr joins the Trump defence team. Could this get any more weirdly, self-referentially partisan?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/ken-starr-dershowitz-join-trumps-impeachment-defense-team

 

[huskeR32]

the problem is that consumers of the media take it as the gods truth instead of thinking for themselves.

IMO, we're quickly moving towards the opposite problem as well. Too many people just flat refuse to believe anything in the news that doesn't confirm what they already think. Yes, the media has its issues. And yes, as a result, folks should consume it with a skeptical eye. But lately, truth is being discarded without a second thought, because people find it much easier to jam their fingers in their ears and holler "Fake News!", rather than put in the effort to consume news responsibly and learn how to spot the truth that is usually still there to be found.

 

[Dotini]

Could this get any more weirdly, self-referentially partisan?

Yes, it could. And I predict it will do so in an unexpected way.

 

[Joey D]

IMO, we're quickly moving towards the opposite problem as well. Too many people just flat refuse to believe anything in the news that doesn't confirm what they already think. Yes, the media has its issues. And yes, as a result, folks should consume it with a skeptical eye. But lately, truth is being discarded without a second thought, because people find it much easier to jam their fingers in their ears and holler "Fake News!", rather than put in the effort to consume news responsibly and learn how to spot the truth that is usually still there to be found.

Oh no doubt and I fully agree. The problem is, it's hard to actually sort through what's utter crap and what's actual substance. Having Trump come along and make "fake news" a thing certainly didn't help matters either, neither did social media and how easy it is to spread rubbish information.

 

[huskeR32]

The problem is, it's hard to actually sort through what's utter crap and what's actual substance.

I don't think it's as difficult as a lot of folks claim. I think a lot of people perceive difficulty when the news challenges or contradicts what they believe. IMO, for most people, the biggest obstacle is learning how to accept when they find out they're wrong about something.

 

[PocketZeven]

Oh no doubt and I fully agree. The problem is, it's hard to actually sort through what's utter crap and what's actual substance. Having Trump come along and make "fake news" a thing certainly didn't help matters either, neither did social media and how easy it is to spread rubbish information.

The real issue is how some people consider the presidents words as their only source of news. It seems due diligence is non existant for a great part of his supporters. Even when Fox news debunk one of his claims, they still believe him over any other source. For example "promises made, promises kept" can so easily be debunked.

 

[huskeR32]

The real issue is how some people consider the presidents words as their only source of news.

I think you're needlessly narrowing the scope of what Joey D said. People who blindly believe Trump aren't the only blinkered people in the world. For one example, anti-vaxxers are some of the most stubbornly, willingly mis-informed people on the planet, and as far as I know, Trump hasn't really ever promoted anti-vax views.

Anti-Trumpers, while absolutely correct in opposing his lying, his ignorance, his constant unethical behavior, etc., don't have a monopoly on truth themselves.

Anybody can and should learn how to inform themselves, by consuming media intelligently, not by discarding it all.

 

[PocketZeven]

I think you're needlessly narrowing the scope of what Joey D said. People who blindly believe Trump aren't the only blinkered people in the world. For one example, anti-vaxxers are some of the most stubbornly, willingly mis-informed people on the planet, and as far as I know, Trump hasn't really ever promoted anti-vax views.

Anti-Trumpers, while absolutely correct in opposing his lying, his ignorance, his constant unethical behavior, etc., don't have a monopoly on truth themselves.

Anybody can and should learn how to inform themselves, by consuming media intelligently, not by discarding it all.

Ah alright. I was trying to react within the scope of the thread topic.

Anti vaxxers, flat-earthers, anti-MSG etc. are a niche and minority though. It baffles me how many people believe every word that Trump says.

 

[TexRex]

I think Zuckerberg is an absolute weasel with a punchable face.

Oh. My. God. That explains why I have the intense desire to punch him in the face. Mind...blown.

Anti vaxxers, flat-earthers, anti-MSG etc. are a niche and minority though. It baffles me how many people believe every word that Trump says.

I...what? This seems like baseless conjecture to me. Not everyone who supports Trump accepts everything he says as immutable fact, just as not everyone who doesn't support him takes everything he says as a bald-faced lie.

Also...glutamic acid is an excitatory neurotransmitter and, as such, has the potential to cause symptoms such as the commonly indicated headaches among a portion of the population. I personally think MSG is pretty fantastic, when considered as the source of sodium that it is, but that doesn't mean it lacks the potential to be more harmful than ordinary salt.

 

[PocketZeven]

Also...glutamic acid is an excitatory neurotransmitter and, as such, has the potential to cause symptoms such as the commonly indicated headaches among a portion of the population. I personally think MSG is pretty fantastic, when considered as the source of sodium that it is, but that doesn't mean it lacks the potential to be more harmful than ordinary salt.

Dont get me going on MSG. This claim has been debunked are better yet not proven for decades. A great example of "mass-hysteria. You need to consume very large amounts of MSG to have any effect.

That said almost anything consumed in large amounts can be dangerous to your health, even H2O

 

[TexRex]

Dont get me going on MSG. This claim has been debunked are better yet not proven for decades. A great example of "mass-hysteria. You need to consume very large amounts of MSG to have any effect.

That said almost anything consumed in large amounts can be dangerous to your health, even H2O

That it doesn't affect, to a meaningful degree, the population as a whole is not an indication that it can't affect a subset of the population.

Sensitivity to free glutamates exists whether you experience the effects of it or not, and it isn't conclusively attributed to hysteria.

 

[PocketZeven]

Sensitivity to free glutamates exists whether you experience the effects of it or not, and it isn't conclusively attributed to hysteria.

I have yet to see any evidence of that. I attribute it to the placebo effect.

 

[TexRex]

I have yet to see any evidence of that. I attribute it to the placebo effect.

"Earth doesn't look so round down here on the ground."

 

[PocketZeven]

"Earth doesn't look so round down here on the ground."

That is very Ironic.

There is actual evidence for a (edit) "spherical" earth and you can test it yourself. There is no test or evidence that conlusively proved that MSG is harmfull or causes discomfort. Apart from people that might have actual allergic reactions. The conpiracy isnt that MSG is not harmfull, but that MSG is harmfull.

MSG is used widely in asia, so statistically people who live and eat asian cuisine should have more headaches?

 

[TexRex]

That is very Ironic.

There is actual evidence for a round earth and you can test it yourself. There is no test or evidence that conlusively proved that MSG is harmfull or causes discomfort. Apart from people that might have actual allergic reactions. The conpiracy isnt that MSG is not harmfull, but that MSG is harmfull.

You said yourself that you haven't personally seen evidence of harmful effects, and therefore there must not be any. That would be cognitive bias.

I suppose you read an article or watched a video that mentioned a physician in the '60s who had no background in chemistry, and who may have been a little bit racist, declaring that symptoms experienced by patients were a result of their lunch at a Chinese restaurant, and because there has since been no conclusive link established between Chinese food and headaches, the whole thing must be myth.

MSG is used widely in asia, so statistically people who live and eat asian cuisine should have more headaches?

Why would they? MSG as an additive is used throughout the world, and it exists in foods in non-additive form.

 

[UKMikey]

An illuminating vox pop article about Trump supporters' attitudes regarding his impeachment.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/01/09/trump-support-impeachment-096606