The Turbo Era: Group B-C and Formula One

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What's captured you before the eighties turbo-era?

Well, the periods that always captured me most of all were the ones before I was even born, seventies, sixties and fifties.
If you talk about timeless periods or charmingly dated ones, those are more likely candidates and the appeal of the racing itself was more thrilling and dangerous with all sorts of unique characters and don't forget gorgeously styled cars (the racing cars of the fifties and sixties are often moving pieces of sculpture).

More recently (and in particularly related to videogames and GT in particular) I've become more interested in the pre-war racing period (twenties/thirties) and have expressed many times that I'd love these periods to be represented much more (or at all) as they'd offer something genuinely different (and exciting) than what's currently offered in any console game.
Right now I'd prefer for example an old Blower Bentley, Grand Prix Bugatti or Silver Arrow to be included above anything else as I think it would be a hoot to drive those.

That doesn't exclude the eighties though, just that I personally prefer different periods in general, that doesn't mean there aren't great cars from the eighties (just more from other periods).
As I mentioned before, I reckon the eighties might be the last really exciting racing period, largely because of those bonkers Group B cars and the hugely overpowered F1 Turbo-era, it's also however a period in which motorsports as a whole gradually became more corporate and slick.
And yeah, eighties fashion was horrible, unfortunately eighties design wasn't that much better either.
 
The Group B List:

Alfa Romeo Alfasud Sprint 6C

Audi Quattro 80 A1
1 January 1981

Audi Quattro A1
1 January 1983

Audi Quattro A2
1 January 1983

Audi Sport Quattro S1
1 May 1984

BMW M1
1 March 1983

Citroën BX 4TC
1 October 1986

Citroën Visa Trophée
1 January 1982

Citroën Visa Chrono II
1 October 1982

Citroën Visa 1000 Pistes

Daihatsu Charade 926 Turbo

Daihatsu Charade DeTomaso 926R
Prototype

Ferrari 308 GTB Michelotto
1 October 1982

Ferrari 308 GTB Michelotto
1 January 1983

Ferrari 308 Quattrovalvole
1 April 1983

Ferrari 288 GTO
1 June 1985

Ferrari 288 GTO Evoluzione
Prototype

Ford RS200
1 February 1986

Ford Escort RS 1700T

FSO Polonez 2000 Rally

Lada Samara EVA
Prototype

Lancia 037 Rally
1 April 1982

Lancia Delta S4
1 November 1985

Mazda RX-7
1 February 1984

Mercedes-Benz 190E Cosworth
Prototype

MG Metro 6R4
1 November 1985

Mitsubishi Lancer 2000 Turbo
1 April 1981

Mitsubishi Lancer 2000 Turbo
1 January 1983

Mitsubishi Starion 4WD
Prototype

Moskvich 2141-KR
Prototype

Nissan 240RS
1 January 1983

Opel Manta 400
1 March 1983

Peugeot 205 T16
1 April 1984

Peugeot 305 V6

Peugeot 504 Pickup
1 December 1982

Porsche 924 Turbo Carrera GT
1 January 1982

Porsche 911 SC RS
1 March 1982

Porsche 911 Turbo
1 January 1982

Porsche 928S
1 January 1982

911 Carrera
1 June 1986

Porsche 928S
1 June 1984

Porsche 911 Turbo
1 June 1986

Porsche 959
Prototype

Porsche 961
Prototype

Renault 5 Maxi Turbo

Seat Fura Crono 1.6
1 January 1985

Subaru XT 4WD Turbo

Talbot Sunbeam
1 December 1982

Talbot Horizon
Prototype

Talbot Samba
1 January 1983

Toyota Celica Twin-Cam Turbo
1 March 1983
 
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Group B Official list:

Just because they were in Group B, doesn't automatically make them "legendary" because what some people don't realize, is that there was really only a handful of successful Group B cars, just because a car is categorized in the same area as a legendary race car, doesn't mean its great.
 
There's not a single car from the Group B and Formula One (Turbo Era) in premium form. Honestly the cars in standard form don't count. I think it's the worst case scenario not to have one premium car from this epic era for
Gran Turismo 5. I hope they learn and rectify their past mistakes in future titles.
 
There's not a single car from the Group B and Formula One (Turbo Era) in premium form. Honestly the cars in standard form don't count. I think it's the worst case scenario not to have one premium car from this epic era for
Gran Turismo 5. I hope they learn and rectify their past mistakes in future titles.

Thats really what I was saying, they don't really have to add anymore Group B cars at the moment, just update them to premium, I think that would be satisfying enough, if anything, they need to add more Turbo Formula, Group C, and some Grand Am cars, those are whats really lacking in the game.
 
Thats really what I was saying, they don't really have to add anymore Group B cars at the moment, just update them to premium, I think that would be satisfying enough, if anything, they need to add more Turbo Formula, Group C, and some Grand Am cars, those are whats really lacking in the game.

They also need to make them sound spot on, exactly as those in real life. They can't afford to mess up the engine and exhaust sounds for these fire spitting, turbo howling, and ground trembling back firing monsters.
 
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The 80s were interesting. Car design in general was washed-up and cereal box toy like.

But the race machines of those days were like Satan's minions themselves.
 
Lancia S4
Peugeot 205
Renault 5 turbo
Ford RS200
Nissan 240RS
Mitsubishi Starion
Audi Quattro
Audi Pikes Peak Quattro

That's a pretty good list, and that's about all of the "successful" cars in Group B the only ones that are really missing is the Opel Manta, Ford Escort, Ferrari 288, MG Metro, and the Lancia 037, and the rest of the group B cars were either failed cars, Porsches, which because of EA, will never be in GT, or just minor variants.
I love Group B, and Turbo F1, but I don't want to scan through 50+ crap cars that nobody remembers, just to get to the 10 good ones.

The Quattro rally car isn't in the game tough. Plus the Nissan and Mitsubishi wasn't successful. The manufacturers that can be considered successful is Lancia, Peugeot and Audi in the 4 years of Group B. Ford's best result was third place. No Metro 6R4 ever finished a Group B rally, and the Ferrari never even raced. So the other cars are just there because of their popularity AFTER Group B. The Metro and RS200 were both successful in rallycross. And the Ferrari....well, I think you can guess.
 
The Quattro rally car isn't in the game tough. Plus the Nissan and Mitsubishi wasn't successful. The manufacturers that can be considered successful is Lancia, Peugeot and Audi in the 4 years of Group B. Ford's best result was third place. No Metro 6R4 ever finished a Group B rally, and the Ferrari never even raced. So the other cars are just there because of their popularity AFTER Group B. The Metro and RS200 were both successful in rallycross. And the Ferrari....well, I think you can guess.

I know the 240RS wasn't, but the Starion did pretty decent in rally racing, but most of its popularity was due to its success in JGTC, however the Metro 6R4 was popular because of its technical specs being dramatically different from the other cars, and its engine lived on in the Jaguar XJ220, the Ferrari was famous because.........Ferrari. But with the RS200, finishing 3rd, that's pretty impressive, especially for Group B, were most cars could barely pull through stages without wrapping themselves around a tree, or blowing their engine up, I agree that most of those cars I listed weren't exactly champions, but they were legends in the way of how the Toyota 7, or the Tyrell P4, in how they pushed the car to do something new and different, it was one legendary due to it being one of the most pure motorsport racing series because while there is rules, it was very loose, and teams took advantage of that, and that's why they are legendary. Again, I love Group B, but I just don't want every, single, car, from that category, it should only have the ones that people actually want/remember.
 
I believe the Ford RS200 was still earlyish in it's 'development' cycle. The next season of Group B an evolution version with bigger engine. Ford had high hopes for this next stage of development, and experts at the time rated the cars 'potential', as opposed to the 3 'kings' at the time.

Also I believe I read once, that around a Spanish F1 track, one of the Group B rally cars was lapped 'quick enough' to qualify reasonably high in that years F1 qualifying times!!!
 
I know the 240RS wasn't, but the Starion did pretty decent in rally racing, but most of its popularity was due to its success in JGTC, however the Metro 6R4 was popular because of its technical specs being dramatically different from the other cars, and its engine lived on in the Jaguar XJ220, the Ferrari was famous because.........Ferrari. But with the RS200, finishing 3rd, that's pretty impressive, especially for Group B, were most cars could barely pull through stages without wrapping themselves around a tree, or blowing their engine up, I agree that most of those cars I listed weren't exactly champions, but they were legends in the way of how the Toyota 7, or the Tyrell P4, in how they pushed the car to do something new and different, it was one legendary due to it being one of the most pure motorsport racing series because while there is rules, it was very loose, and teams took advantage of that, and that's why they are legendary. Again, I love Group B, but I just don't want every, single, car, from that category, it should only have the ones that people actually want/remember.

But what I'm saying was they were successful AFTER Group B. Cars like the Citroen BX 4TC, Opel Manta 400 and Nissan 240RS was pretty much forgotten after Group B was banned. The Metro 6R4 and RS200 was successful after Group B in rallycross. And there wasn't much in the cars that was special like the Delta S4(supercharging and turbocharging) or the Quattro S1(first rally car with 4WD). The 6R4 had engine problems and didn't finish a lot of rallies. The RS200 had low-rpm lag and was less competitive because of that. In fact the RS200 was involved in an accident that contributed to Group B's cancellation(so did the Delta S4, but well, let's not talk about that). They are not legendary like the Audi Quattro and Lancia Delta S4, or like in F1, the McLaren MP4/4. Like you mentioned, the Tyrrell P34 six-wheeler was significant because it was somehow successful and no other six-wheeler has ever won(or been entered in)an F1 race. And if no one played GT, no one knows what the Toyota 7 is. It didn't even win, it got beaten by Nissan's R380, R381 and R382, which I'm surprised isn't in the GT games. It only won the 1000km Suzuka twice, because Nissan wasn't there.
 
It just gives more ammo to the Soccer Moms to complain about

Well maybe it's about time someone stands up and tells those soccer moms to STFU. There are so many things against the law just because they won't actually take the time to teach their kids about the facts of life.

As for the topic, one interview I've read about the modern era of racing was that pilots tend to drive more recklessly thanks to modern race cars' extra safety features.
 
And yeah, eighties fashion was horrible, unfortunately eighties design wasn't that much better either.

1989-ferrari-f40-1.jpg


porsche-959-white-3_91.jpg


Ford-Sierra-RS-Cos_1627700i.jpg


Was car design in the 1980's below average or bad? Really can you find a car better in design and performance, before the 1980's era? Hardly or never, personally the eighties and nineties had the best balance between design and performance. The eighties has given the world the very best of everything (nearly, apart from the fashion).
 
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1989-ferrari-f40-1.jpg


porsche-959-white-3_91.jpg


Ford-Sierra-RS-Cos_1627700i.jpg


Was car design in the 1980's below average or bad? Really can you find a car better in design and performance, before the 1980's era? Hardly or never, personally the eighties and nineties had the best balance between design and performance. The eighties has given the world the very best of everything (nearly, apart from the fashion).

Funny, because I consider the F40 uglier than other Ferraris(yeah yeah) and the 911 Turbo looks way better than the 959. But that Sierra......not bad.
 
Funny, because I consider the F40 uglier than other Ferraris(yeah yeah) and the 911 Turbo looks way better than the 959. But that Sierra......not bad.

Do you mean other Ferrari's and Porsche's after the world wars and before the 1980's?
 
Do you mean other Ferrari's and Porsche's after the world wars and before the 1980's?

Before the 80s, like 50s,60s and 70s. Some beautiful machines came from this era. Things like the 500 Superfast, the 330 GT and the 250 LM were pretty nice to look at. Of course, they were stuff like the Lamborghini Islero, De Tomaso Pantera and the Maserati Mexico.
 
Was car design in the 1980's below average or bad? Really can you find a car better in design and performance, before the 1980's era? Hardly or never, personally the eighties and nineties had the best balance between design and performance. The eighties has given the world the very best of everything (nearly, apart from the fashion).

Are you seriously asking me to provide examples made before the eighties which I think look better than the examples you've provided?
What's the point? I can easily provide a huge list of cars I prefer lookswise but why try to argue personal preferences in the first place?
To be clear, my personal favourite period regarding car design roughly starts by the early sixties and ends by the early to mid seventies.
I prefer a lot of cars made in the fifties, thirties and twenties to the ones you provided as well.

For me the eighties weren't the decade of greatness, and the car design in general (by which I mean there are exceptions) in the nineties to me is very bland or dull for the most part (only at the end of that decade things started to improve).

As for the particular examples you gave, the F40 to me isn't really beautiful at all, the design it's originally based on (the seventies 308/328 via the 288GTO) however has a more timeless appeal without all the spoilers, etc.
Same can be said for the 959, the sixties 911 it's originally based on has a timeless appeal whilst the 959 looks very dated now and unlike the F40 which didn't ever pretend to be state of the art, the technology which was its most impressive virtue has dated even more.
And a Sierra Cossie? Great car although putting a massive wing on a not so pretty family car doesn't exactly improve it, it only distracts from the looks which in this case is a good thing.
Again, that's just a highly subjective personal opinion.
 
I think its a wrong idea this one that the turbo era was great because of the car technology, which was kind of safeless and focuses on power. I think its more merit of the drives who made theirs name in that particular time. 80's F1 cars, if you had the opportunity to see one irl, make you wonder how a person could reach 300kph with such no space at all for legs in case of a front collision, the same ( I think, those one I never saw ) goes for the the Peugeot 305 rally version. Summarizing, Senna ( and other at the time ) had more balls than brains to control those beasts. And for that, its about time GT pay a tribute for those guys (rather than Vettel or Gordon ), and, by that, putting their cars in the game.
 
I think its a wrong idea this one that the turbo era was great because of the car technology, which was kind of safeless and focuses on power. I think its more merit of the drives who made theirs name in that particular time. 80's F1 cars, if you had the opportunity to see one irl, make you wonder how a person could reach 300kph with such no space at all for legs in case of a front collision, the same ( I think, those one I never saw ) goes for the the Peugeot 305 rally version. Summarizing, Senna ( and other at the time ) had more balls than brains to control those beasts. And for that, its about time GT pay a tribute for those guys (rather than Vettel or Gordon ), and, by that, putting their cars in the game.

Completely agree with you about the drivers having more balls than todays drivers. But new technology was introduced, at least in racing, anyway. The Mclaren MP4/4 or Peugeot 205 T16 maybe not, but as mentioned before, the Quattro introduced 4wd in rally and the Delta S4 introduced supercharging and turbocharging on the same engine, something which is pretty much rare or impossible to regulate in today's racing. But today's drivers are more willing to "go the distance", so to say, because they are safer. Crashing in today's F1 cars are still not pleasant. And drivers need to be able to think and react faster than normal because they need to be able to handle a lot of things at the same time. It's certainly easier today, but the sport is more politics and money every year. Hence we don't have things like the Senna/Prost rivalry, or Mansell's moustache, no interesting off track stuff, because people are forgetting the fun side of the race, the cool, manly, entertainment for the audience side.
 
All that still exists but it isn't mainstream (or rather not shown in the race coverage), just like back in the day.
 
I agree, my favorite cars mostly come from 1970 - 1990, group B is must have and old formula cars are more needed than modern!

And I wish PD create cars as real ones this time, if a car dont have ABS it should not have ABS 1, (TC and other helping electronics should be in aftermarket also, if car dont have it by default) If I would want ABS or something else, I should go to tune shop and buy it there!
 
I agree, my favorite cars mostly come from 1970 - 1990, group B is must have and old formula cars are more needed than modern!

And I wish PD create cars as real ones this time, if a car dont have ABS it should not have ABS 1, (TC and other helping electronics should be in aftermarket also, if car dont have it by default) If I would want ABS or something else, I should go to tune shop and buy it there!

I agree with your point, driving aids should be in tuning parts shop. Most road and competion cars before the mid-late 1990's didn't have major driving assists like in today's cars. Back then it was basic motoring at it's very best without unnecessary limits and restrictions.

7438487924_88198f971d_z.jpg

The greatest era in automotive legacy would be uncompleted without the epic Group C machines.
The awaiting of the legendary machines must rise from the glorious past to dominate the virtual world of Gran Turismo.
 
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Formula One in 83-89 followed the turbo domination and was eventually banned just like Group B. Ayrton Senna began his Formula One career alongside his rival Alain Prost. Sheer talent and raw power was witnessed by the worlds famous circuits, which now are excluded in present time Formula One seasons.

I'm not quite sure what you're on about here. It sounds as though you're suggesting that current F1 cars carry a lot of the burden; more so than in decades past. That isn't actually accurate, however. Aside from having more modern, more efficient transmissions, current F1 cars have no driving aids. Their downforce doesn't even make them easier to drive, but instead simply increases the abilities of the cars. Today's F1 drivers still have to feel where their cars' performance limits are and drive them right at the edge of the cliff, just a hair from disaster, just as they'd have done thirty years ago, but it's just that today those boundaries have been picked up and placed somewhere else.

In generations past, not just anybody could sit down in a Formula One car and tear about at the speeds that the greats did, but this fact hasn't changed any today either. In some ways, modern F1 cars are even harder to drive, as a result of their increased complexities. When Tony Stewart participated in the "Seat Swap" with Lewis Hamilton, Stewart struggled to even get the F1 car going, even though he had plenty of NASCAR experience and some modest IRL experience. Stewart stalled the car repeatedly just trying to get it going. Then the steering wheels have so many functions built into them that you almost need to take classes for a semester just to learn how to operate it. To compete in modern Formula One, you have to make full use of every knob and button on your wheel, making frequent adjustments while weaving through a circuit at 200 MPH.

The 1980s Group B and F1 days are also known as the Turbo Era. In this time Both machines were turbochargerd but, rally was more popular than F1. Motorsport in the 1980s was all about the turbocharger.

I'm not quite sure where you got that rally was more popular than F1.

Turbo cars had so much power, sometimes the drivers couldn't even control their cars.

2. There were more actions and overtaking in the turbo era than the current Formula 1 and WRC. Many cars were being overtaken, passing and re passing in almost every lap. That was the pure joy that we miss today in the current Formula 1. From 2000 through 2007, the races were predictable. Whoever takes pole, then the driver will surely win. There's hardly any overtaking.

Blah, blah, blah.

Non-turbo F1 cars still saw 1000+ horsepower a decade (give or take?) ago. So..., "meh" on the insistence that "the cars had so much power that they were uncontrollable".

Then we get the classic American stock car perspective that the quality of a race is measured by the number of arbitrary passes. I've often heard this complaint from Cup fans, who contend that NASCAR is far more interesting because they have so many passes, but it's sort of like financial inflation. You can print out a bunch of money and flood the market with that new currency but your dollars have been dramatically devalued as a result. Likewise, in Formula One you spend many laps or even entire races working on overtaking someone, and when you do it's an enormous accomplishment of great value, but in a sport where you swap positions repeatedly an overtake is more trivial because there's so many of them and you can lose the position moments after you gained it so you never really gained anything of value.

If we're competing in a race wherein you have to work your butt off for twenty laps to catch up with me and struggle to take my position, you've really accomplished something when you've gained my position. It then becomes my monumental chore to try taking it back, and if you outdrove me to gain it then I might not be able to outdrive you to get it back, so you've earned you something solid. If we're in a race where you and I can shuffle positions on every lap, or even multiple times per lap, you overtaking me means nothing because I'm just as likely to take it back from you here in another thirty seconds, so your gain is trivial.

Regarding predictability and winning from pole - that makes sense. If you have a sport where your performance comes down to a good car with a good setup and a good driver behind the wheel, it would make sense for the best car/driver combination to find himself on or near pole, followed by the next top car/driver duos and working back to the weakest drivers and cars. A mediocre car/driver shouldn't be on pole unless there's something wrong with your sport. If a driver and his car were good enough to earn pole, then they should be just as capable of continuing that performance in the race to win it. They shouldn't be great on qualifying and then suddenly mediocre during the race, losing positions to a bunch of inferior cars and drivers.

In short, the things it takes to earn pole are also great for winning races. Granted, flukes happen, so this is just a generalization.
 
I'm not quite sure where you got that rally was more popular than F1.

In the 1980's, rallying was more popular than Formula One. This has been well documented and recorded in many books and documentaries. The amazing documentary Madness On Wheels: Rallying's Craziest Years holds the true evidence that supports my point.
 
Non-turbo F1 cars still saw 1000+ horsepower a decade (give or take?) ago. So..., "meh" on the insistence that "the cars had so much power that they were uncontrollable".
Because Aerodynamics, Suspension, Chassis, Tyres, Electronic, etc never improved..... I know, I know.
👎:dopey:
 
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