The "war on police" in America

[Johnnypenso]

Initial Report >>>http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2014/12/20/report-nypd-cops-shot-in-ambush-attack/

Suspect Identified >>> http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...uspect-identified-nypd-examines-social-media/

 

[Liquid]

Christ almighty. Some people...

 

[Dennisch]

Let's hope that there aren't more of those idiots who will follow his path. Completely pointless.

 

[GTPorsche]

Was there suppose to be two of the same link?

 

[Brutaka]

Those comments

 

[GTPorsche]

In all honesty, that was a seriously cowardly thing to do.

 

[Carbonox]

In all honesty, that was a seriously cowardly thing to do.

When aren't guys like this cowards?

 

[GTPorsche]

When aren't guys like this cowards?

Not saying there ever is a time where it's not cowardly, but to execute two people from behind that are sitting in a car, completely unaware of your presence and then to run off and suicide to avoid the responsibility of the actions...

 

[Blitz24]

Of course this is perfectly legitimate reaction. There is no explanation. This isn't retaliation, this is people finding an excuse to kill unrelated officers who had nothing to do with the murders just because they can. Anyone who doesn't understand, or worse, supports these kind of individuals are nothing more than domestic terrorists.

 

[Dennisch]

I wonder what the authorities will do with those who responded to the messages this wacko posted.

 

[Blitz24]

I wonder what the authorities will do with those who responded to the messages this wacko posted.

There's nothing they can really do I believe. Most people who posted on this probably were thinking he had just showed solidarity for those slain, not that he was actually going out to kill these police officers.

 

[Imari]

This is the sort of bollocks that starts civil wars. If this becomes commonplace then things are gonna start getting bad, fast.

 

[Dennisch]

There's nothing they can really do I believe. Most people who posted on this probably were thinking he had just showed solidarity for those slain, not that he was actually going out to kill these police officers.

I’m Putting Wings On Pigs Today. They Take 1 Of Ours…… Let’s Take 2 of Theirs #ShootThePolice #RIPErivGardner #RIPMikeBrown This May Be My Final Post

That's a pretty clear statement to me.

 

[Blitz24]

This is the sort of bollocks that starts civil wars. If this becomes commonplace then things are gonna start getting bad, fast.

I can't see this starting a civil war. People will need to severely misinterpret the situation for that to happen. However, some people believe that if the man didn't commit suicide he would be convicted because he is black. Wouldn't matter if there is the social media evidence or even if there were cameras capturing the crime, they'd still think he was convicted because he is black.

 

[Blitz24]

I’m Putting Wings On Pigs Today. They Take 1 Of Ours…… Let’s Take 2 of Theirs #ShootThePolice #RIPErivGardner #RIPMikeBrown This May Be My Final Post

That's a pretty clear statement to me.

It convicts him. It's going to be hard to prosecute others for that though. Unless they themselves are going out to commit the same crime I can't see them being punished for commenting on it, even in a pro-fashion.


Apologies for double post.

 

[GTPorsche]

So, if it was a white man that murdered two police officers, he somehow wouldn't be convicted?

A.. Forget it, that's a rhetorical question...

 

[Dennisch]

It convicts him. It's going to be hard to prosecute others for that though. Unless they themselves are going out to commit the same crime I can't see them being punished for commenting on it, even in a pro-fashion.


Apologies for double post.

Aren't they withholding information? I understand it might be a bit of hindsight but this seems like the sort of information you might want to give the authorities.

Edit.

Officers identified as Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Lui.

 

[Blitz24]

Aren't they withholding information? I understand it might be a bit of hindsight but this seems like the sort of information you might want to give the authorities.

Edit.

Officers identified as Rafael Ramos and Wenjian Lui.

Doubtful. Could have been outside the jurisdiction of those involved. We don't know where these people are posting from. I understand what you are saying though.

Does anyone have the timestamp of the original post he made?

 

[Imari]

I can't see this starting a civil war.

You're right, it won't.

What I'm saying is that if people start doing this regularly you have two groups: the public who have solid evidence that the police will use violence against them, and the police who have solid evidence that the public will use violence against them. When it starts becoming a tit-for-tat thing, that's when it really starts to get out of control and you end up in a country with an us-vs.-them mentality.

This sort of stuff is the thin end of the wedge, if enough rational people don't recognise him for the nutter that he was. It's potentially a dangerous precedent in a wider sense, is what I'm saying. (Which probably isn't a precedent, but it's the first I've heard of this going on.)

 

[IneedSchool]

This is just abhorrent for me to read. Shame on the suspect.

 

[a6m5]

On the civil war thing, I think when the big guy in New York was killed right after the Michael Brown protests, that did cause some divide in this country.

Clearly this shooter had much problems either in his head, or in his life. Most people will condemn the shooting, and 99% of the idiots who back the action of the shooter will be too much of a you know what to even attempt to get in the face of a cop, so I'd predict the sentiments of the American people to be pretty one-sided on this one.

 

[JMoney]

Something that bothers me is that everyone's using the word "executed" here, which isn't the right application at all. The cops were in their car at the time. Sounds like the shooter just walked up and shot them- that's not an execution at all. An example of an execution is when ISIS forces people to their knees and slits their throat on camera. People are using "execution" to make this shooting sound worse, which is just as bad as the protests of "hands up, don't shoot" when Michael Brown obviously didn't have his hands up. For God's sake, stop twisting the truth. I'm not trying to justify the killer's actions, of course, I think the killing was senseless and that the killer deserves Hell, I just want the truth to be told. Nothing more.

 

[Parker]

Something that bothers me is that everyone's using the word "executed" here, which isn't the right application at all. The cops were in their car at the time. Sounds like the shooter just walked up and shot them- that's not an execution at all. An example of an execution is when ISIS forces people to their knees and slits their throat on camera. People are using "execution" to make this shooting sound worse, which is just as bad as the protests of "hands up, don't shoot" when Michael Brown obviously didn't have his hands up. For God's sake, stop twisting the truth. I'm not trying to justify the killer's actions, of course, I think the killing was senseless and that the killer deserves Hell, I just want the truth to be told. Nothing more.

You do realize that when the state carries out a death sentence, that is considered an execution too, right? There is certainly more than one way to execute someone and I'd say these murders could be considered an execution.

My thoughts are with these Officers as well as everyone else on the NYPD, I've heard reports of more people heading to New York to try and copycat this so they need to keep their heads on a swivel up there.

 

[JMoney]

You do realize that when the state carries out a death sentence, that is considered an execution too, right? There is certainly more than one way to execute someone and I'd say these murders could be considered an execution.

The term "execution" has a definition. In this context, execution-style murder rather than an actual execution, which is another word for capital punishment.

An execution-style murder, also known as Chicago-style murder and execution-style killing, is an act of criminal murder where the perpetrator kills at close range a conscious victim who is under the complete physical control of the assailant and who has been left with no course of resistance or escape.

As the NYPD police were unaware of their killer until possibly seconds before death, and having a means of escape being their car, it was not an execution. Using the phrase "execution" in any of its meanings to describe this event is simply incorrect; without truth. Lies, told by either side, cannot improve race relations in this country. Only the truth can.

These days it seems that truth told in media is a feature of some distant utopia, rather than a realistic goal.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Cops attacked in Manhattan precinct by person off the street - no guns but there was a broken arm.

Man in custody after making online threats echoing those of the douchebag murderer from the OP - “Good job … Kill em all I’m on the way to NY now #shootthepolice 2 more going down tomorrow,” posted by a user identified as woodgramflexinn.

Man attempts to shoot cop in the Bronx but fails because gun is empty

 

[GTPorsche]

The term "execution" has a definition. In this context, execution-style murder rather than an actual execution, which is another word for capital punishment.



As the NYPD police were unaware of their killer until possibly seconds before death, and having a means of escape being their car, it was not an execution. Using the phrase "execution" in any of its meanings to describe this event is simply incorrect; without truth. Lies, told by either side, cannot improve race relations in this country. Only the truth can.

These days it seems that truth told in media is a feature of some distant utopia, rather than a realistic goal.

They were shot from behind in a car that wasn't on.

It

was

an

execution.

 

[Liquid]

I don't know. With an execution the executed know that they are to be executed, or at least under threat if they're kneeling in front of a camera.

This definitely counts as an assassination though.

 

[Parker]

The term "execution" has a definition. In this context, execution-style murder rather than an actual execution, which is another word for capital punishment.



As the NYPD police were unaware of their killer until possibly seconds before death, and having a means of escape being their car, it was not an execution. Using the phrase "execution" in any of its meanings to describe this event is simply incorrect; without truth. Lies, told by either side, cannot improve race relations in this country. Only the truth can.

These days it seems that truth told in media is a feature of some distant utopia, rather than a realistic goal.

I wasn't aware Wikipedia was the end all, be all authority on something such as this. There are many different opinions on what an "execution-style" murder can be, so just because Wikipedia doesn't say this fits their definition, it doesn't mean they are 100% correct.

Also, having a different opinion on what constitutes an "execution-style" murder is 110% different than ignoring and lying about the facts of an altercation. You have the opinion that this was not an "execution style" murder, others disagree. That isn't anywhere near people lying about Brown having his hands up when he was shot.

 

[FoolKiller]

NYC Mayor de Blasio and President Obama have called for reforms for police and as Mayor de Blasio entered the hospital police turned their backs to him in protest (video at link). If the article is accurate, it looks like the police unions are pointing to these calls for reform as helping to cause this to happen. I think that is a stretch, but apparently the police unions are using this to get support for their political agenda.

http://news.yahoo.com/deblasio-weathers-blowback-on-police-reform-after-cop-slayings-164011463.html

In the wake of two cop slayings in Brooklyn this weekend, police unions and their allies are blaming recent calls to bring more accountability to America’s police forces from New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio and the Obama administration.
Rafael Ramos, 40, and Wenjian Liu, 32, were shot dead while sitting in their patrol car Saturday afternoon by a man who officials say was out for revenge for the deaths of Eric Garner in Staten Island and Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. The men’s deaths at the hands of police have caused nationwide protests against police brutality and sparked calls for reform from de Blasio and the Obama administration. These protests intensified after two separate grand juries cleared the policemen of charges of wrongdoing in both cases.
New York City and national police unions quickly blamed the push for reform — and certain politicians’ rhetoric — for inflaming tensions toward police. De Blasio said after the Staten Island grand jury declined to bring charges against the police officer in the Garner case earlier this month that it was a “painful day” for many New Yorkers, leaving some police officers feeling thrown under the bus.
The mayor strongly condemned the police slayings at a press conference Saturday night. As he walked into Woodhull Hospital in Brooklyn, dozens of NYPD police at the event were captured on video silently turning their backs to him in protest.
“When a police officer is murdered, it tears at the foundation of our society,” a somber-looking de Blasio said. “It is an attack on all of us. It’s an attack on everything we hold dear. We depend on our police to protect us against forces of criminality and evil. They are a foundation of our society, and when they are attacked, it is an attack on the very concept of decency.”
Later, de Blasio urged New Yorkers to call 911 if they hear someone threatening to kill cops, in order to “protect our entire civilization.”

But police unions were still angry at de Blasio after his speech. They’ve criticized him for meeting with protest leaders in recent days. They also circulated a petition for police officers to sign if they do not want the mayor to attend their funeral should they die in the line of duty. (It’s unclear if either of the slain officers had signed it.)
“There is blood on many hands, from those that incited violence under the guise of protest to try to tear down what police officers do every day,” Patrick Lynch, the head of the Patrolmen’s Benevolent Association union, told reporters after de Blasio spoke Saturday night. “That blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor.”
Lynch said that after the funerals of the two slain officers, “those who allowed this to happen will be held accountable.” Another union, the Sergeants Benevolent Association, echoed Lynch, tweeting that the “blood of 2 executed police officers is on the hands of Mayor de Blasio.”
Former NYPD Commissioner Ray Kelly poured on the criticism on Sunday morning in an interview with ABC News, saying de Blasio ran “an antipolice campaign.” "Quite frankly the mayor ran an antipolice campaign last year when he ran for mayor, so there’s a bit of a residue," he said.
De Blasio was elected to office after campaigning fiercely against the NYPD’s “stop and frisk” program, in which tens of thousands of mostly black and Latino men were stopped and searched by police without probable cause. As a candidate, de Blasio ran an ad saying he worried his own biracial son would be a target of stop and frisk because of his race. De Blasio reined in stop and frisk once elected, but declined to support legislation to completely ban it.
The New York City mayor is just one of many public officials who have pushed for policing reforms after several high-profile shootings sparked national protests and outrage. Attorney General Eric Holder and President Obama have called for better relationships between police and communities of color in recent weeks, and expressed dismay at the “militarized” response to protests in Ferguson by police last summer.
The Justice Department plans to fund 50,000 body cameras for police as one way to increase accountability and build trust. De Blasio recently outfitted several dozen police officers with the cameras as part of a body camera pilot program.
Politicians are feeling pressure to make changes as thousands of Americans continue to protest what they believe is a culture of excessive force among some police departments — force that is often directed at poor minority men. It’s unclear if these two policemen’s murders will slow the pace of these reforms or affect the ongoing anti-police-brutality protests in many American cities in the coming weeks.
Former New York Gov. George Pataki tweeted that both de Blasio and Attorney General Eric Holder's "rhetoric" on police were to blame for the deaths, linking the mayor to the Obama administration.
“The poorly thought out and intemperate statements made by public figures in the aftermath of Ferguson could well be a triggering factor in unstable folks feeling that they’re empowered to commit violent acts,” Jim Pasco, the executive director of the National Fraternal Order of Police, told Yahoo News.
At Saturday’s press conference, NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton also appeared to implicate the recent police protests in the crime: "Let's face it. There's been, not just in New York, but throughout the country, a very strong, antipolice, anti-criminal-justice system, anti-societal set of initiatives underway,” Bratton said. “One of these unfortunate aspects, sometimes, is that some people get caught up in the directions they should not."
Police leaders say it’s not their job alone to improve community relations.
“I hope people will begin to understand that it’s not just a matter of restoring community faith in police, it’s a matter of restoring police faith in community,” Pasco said, referencing recent calls for police to repair their connections with minority communities. “This is exactly the kind of thing that leads police officers to be defensive and to fear for their lives as they try to go about protecting people in the poorest parts of the country.”

When it is the people vs the police I worry that there will be blood on both sides and trust will be destroyed where trust is needed most. But when the law enforcers start disagreeing with the law makers it creates a much larger issue. It can lead to a systemic breakdown. It wouldn't be hard for cops to let crimes go to make the elected officials look bad or for the resources of law enforcement to be used to gain harmful information about a politician. And a politician feeling pushback could clean house, leaving gaps in public protection, or place heavy blame on law enforcement for everything that goes wrong.

I wouldn't want to visit New York City for a while.

 

[Johnnypenso]

NYC Mayor de Blasio and President Obama have called for reforms for police and as Mayor de Blasio entered the hospital police turned their backs to him in protest (video at link). If the article is accurate, it looks like the police unions are pointing to these calls for reform as helping to cause this to happen. I think that is a stretch, but apparently the police unions are using this to get support for their political agenda.

http://news.yahoo.com/deblasio-weathers-blowback-on-police-reform-after-cop-slayings-164011463.html

When it is the people vs the police I worry that there will be blood on both sides and trust will be destroyed where trust is needed most. But when the law enforcers start disagreeing with the law makers it creates a much larger issue. It can lead to a systemic breakdown. It wouldn't be hard for cops to let crimes go to make the elected officials look bad or for the resources of law enforcement to be used to gain harmful information about a politician. And a politician feeling pushback could clean house, leaving gaps in public protection, or place heavy blame on law enforcement for everything that goes wrong.

I wouldn't want to visit New York City for a while.

The trust is already lost on many people, and given the hyperbole and rhetoric over the last couple of years, it's only going to get worse, not better. The blame is already shifting to the police from the likes of De Blowsio and other politicians and I can easily see political correctness invading policing and rules coming down the pipe like, "You can't fire your weapon at someone until you are actually injured by a weapon or being shot at and even then you should shoot at his legs to injure not kill and once injured you can't keep shooting even if he's shooting at you because eventually he'll pass out....etc."