The Wheel Inherent Advantage

[CMoeller]

I’m a standard stick driver and I have a stabile B - S rating, but now I find my pace sucks. And I’ve been a GT driver since the first game, online races mostly up to speed.Not so in the real league though. My controllers are set to 0 on sensitivity, sticks for both steering/throttle.(wheel is no option as I have 2 small kids and a wife in a city Appartement). After driving Manufactures Cup this week my hands are sore and I barely reached top 10 in any of the races. Getting knocked about by tailend racers like a bowling pin. Dead last at Daytona.Seem like my braking lacks something too - ABS 1-weak.Not very satisfying this. So I’m pulling out and I’m going back to training, maybe adapt my style before attending any more online races. Any advice y’all? In beforehand thanx.

 

[ILLEAGLE_34]

I’m a standard stick driver and I have a stabile B - S rating, but now I find my pace sucks. And I’ve been a GT driver since the first game, online races mostly up to speed.Not so in the real league though. My controllers are set to 0 on sensitivity, sticks for both steering/throttle.(wheel is no option as I have 2 small kids and a wife in a city Appartement). After driving Manufactures Cup this week my hands are sore and I barely reached top 10 in any of the races. Getting knocked about by tailend racers like a bowling pin. Dead last at Daytona.Seem like my braking lacks something too - ABS 1-weak.Not very satisfying this. So I’m pulling out and I’m going back to training, maybe adapt my style before attending any more online races. Any advice y’all? In beforehand thanx.

I would definitely increase the controller sensitivity. I personally run it around 7-10 depending on car. (When I’m using a controller). Also try adjusting the FFB torque and FFS sensitivity settings. Hopefully this will help you out some, I have read from some of the faster controller users that the inputs don’t work as well as they did prior to the 1.31 update idk🍻

 

[Redneckchef]

I would definitely increase the controller sensitivity. I personally run it around 7-10 depending on car. (When I’m using a controller). Also try adjusting the FFB torque and FFS sensitivity settings. Hopefully this will help you out some, I have read from some of the faster controller users that the inputs don’t work as well as they did prior to the 1.31 update idk🍻

Can back you up on increasing the sensitivity. Since the last update the controller is severely hampered in some of the sharper corners. Looking at a friend's ghost on Road Atlanta I have to go full lock to enter the first corner of the back pair (the double 90s) and my steering angle is still increasing by the time I hit the apex and it doesn't peak until I'm on exit. My friend on wheel starts turning when I do, they're at full lock by apex and opening the steering on exit. Controller smoothing means I'm having to fight some of this and try to find ways to hustle the cars around it. But still managing to have some good races here and there.

 

[RacinLei]

Can back you up on increasing the sensitivity. Since the last update the controller is severely hampered in some of the sharper corners. Looking at a friend's ghost on Road Atlanta I have to go full lock to enter the first corner of the back pair (the double 90s) and my steering angle is still increasing by the time I hit the apex and it doesn't peak until I'm on exit. My friend on wheel starts turning when I do, they're at full lock by apex and opening the steering on exit. Controller smoothing means I'm having to fight some of this and try to find ways to hustle the cars around it. But still managing to have some good races here and there.

Agree
To me it feels like a build in steering angel limiter after the patch. The steering speed gets from patch to patch slower no metter how high we set sensetivity. I cant get rid of the feeling that Pd will/did exclude the controller from being fast. I mean PD made extra a video and said “be competitive with controller“ sounds more and more like a mad joke from Pd…

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

The steering feels too slow to get through the last chicane on this weeks race C at a competitive pace. Really really hoping this months update fixes some of the damage.

 

[hawkeyez]

Maybe PD should just group controller players together and wheel players together. I don’t race sport, only online but I will say I would be fine with that. Anytime I get hit in a corner it’s a controller player dive bombing. I do race against some people using a controller (I’m pretty sure they use a controller) and they’re great but most of the time when I’m not having the best race I can see the person I’m trying to get by or get away from is on a controller. You can tell when you get on the straights and see their car jerking left and right until the next turn.

And then they divebomb again, honk their horn and get mad… all while thinking they could have made the turn because they used you to actually make the corner. You finally get away from them, then they rage quit because as soon as you get ahead far enough where you’re taking the corner alone, they fall way back. Funny how much faster one can be when they’re not getting divebombed and knocked around through every corner. Lol

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

I don't want everybody to be forced to play on a controller, I would like to see race lobbies split to seperate wheels and controllers since the last update has shown it is obviously impossible to balance the 2 in such a way to create a fair race. That way everybody gets to play using whatever input device they want.

 

[KoupeKing]

I don't want everybody to be forced to play on a controller, I would like to see race lobbies split to seperate wheels and controllers since the last update has shown it is obviously impossible to balance the 2 in such a way to create a fair race. That way everybody gets to play using whatever input device they want.

That would be a great idea. I'm sure there's more than enough simracers out there to populate enough wheel only servers. Let the controller players play bumper cars in their own lobbies

 

[hawkeyez]

I don't want everybody to be forced to play on a controller, I would like to see race lobbies split to seperate wheels and controllers since the last update has shown it is obviously impossible to balance the 2 in such a way to create a fair race. That way everybody gets to play using whatever input device they want.

I used to race with a controller, I will say it’s incredibly difficult to hold your line through a corner with a controller. I never divebombed when o used a controller for that reason (I still don’t with a wheel)

I can’t speak about the recent update with a controller, but when the game first came out, if I could get ahead with the controller, I was gone! I think this had to do with the fact I could turn hard and fast at the right time and cut the apex perfectly. I think the controller automatically gave/gives you some kind of hidden traction control. I couldn’t hold a corner smoothly but I could zip through the corners way faster than a wheel. When I got a wheel, I obviously drove the same and I’d just fly off the track or end up spinning or going way too wide. You can’t turn super fast like that with a wheel.

As for the latest update as a wheel user now, it’s awesome, it’s so much better than before. Mostly with tire slip, go in hot, before it’d rumble away, now the wheel actually gets light like it should when you lose traction.

 

[RacinLei]

It is on PD to bring back the goods where it was up to patch 1.13 than crap and 1.19 to 1.23 was really good and since then it gos slowly wors for controller user.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

That would be a great idea. I'm sure there's more than enough simracers out there to populate enough wheel only servers. Let the controller players play bumper cars in their own lobbies

There are enough players at the top, I'm not sure about the low DR (below A) but it would make itself apparent soon enough.

 

[hawkeyez]

It is on PD to bring back the goods where it was up to patch 1.13 than crap and 1.19 to 1.23 was really good and since then it gos slowly wors for controller user.

I disagree, the latest update was so much more better feel for wheel users. Before the wheel was just ok. So who gets what they want? Maybe they can have some kind of i game option, wheel users turn this setting on or controller users turn this setting on. Doubt that’s possible though.

However there has also been people whining about the latest update and their wheel saying it feels like ice. They complain the wheel gets light in the corners… ummmm that’s exactly how it should feel. It’s like they’ve never driven a car on snowy roads and lost traction or driven a car and brakes a little too hard, or they’ve never done a burnout or doughnut. The latest update is night and day for the wheel compared to before.

 

[RacinLei]

I disagree, the latest update was so much more better feel for wheel users. Before the wheel was just ok. So who gets what they want? Maybe they can have some kind of i game option, wheel users turn this setting on or controller users turn this setting on. Doubt that’s possible though.

However there has also been people whining about the latest update and their wheel saying it feels like ice. They complain the wheel gets light in the corners… ummmm that’s exactly how it should feel. It’s like they’ve never driven a car on snowy roads and lost traction or driven a car and brakes a little too hard, or they’ve never done a burnout or doughnut. The latest update is night and day for the wheel compared to before.

Dont get me wrong, I didnt say they should downgrade the wheel. It is good that the wheel gets better since patch 1.14
But it would be good they bring back the controller to where it was. I mean 80% are on controller (beside of this forum) up to GT4 it was always a joy to play on controller and i never had the feeling to get Artifical hold back by PD.
Other racing games can do it so why not PD?

 

[hawkeyez]

Dont get me wrong, I didnt say they should downgrade the wheel. It is good that the wheel gets better since patch 1.14
But it would be good they bring back the controller to where it was. I mean 80% are on controller (beside of this forum) up to GT4 it was always a joy to play on controller and i never had the feeling to get Artifical hold back by PD.
Other racing games can do it so why not PD?

Well considering they updated tire physics and car physics I thought that might be difficult. I don’t think they waved a magic wand and made the wheel better, I think that happened because they updated how the game simulates?

But yeah it has to be frustrating for both sides.

Buy a wheel… hmmm this doesn’t feel a hundred percent accurate to driving there’s weird things that happen in the FFB that don’t feel realistic.

Use a controller… man I’m awesome I’m beating people on that use a wheel! Game updates, tables have turned…

It’s not exactly fair on either. I think maybe certain games lend themselves to a controller more, I think I could play wreckfest or need for speed with a controller and not care if I had a wheel or not. GT7 just upped its game and put itself closer to the more realistic sim category and imo that’s always been the downfall of the game, cool cars, good tracks including original tracks but it’s always just felt like a video game. Project Cars 2 I couldn’t really be all that competitive with a controller, GT7 I was and winning, that was with hardly any practice too. So maybe the handling and everything is closer to project cars 2 now?

who knows.

 

[RacinLei]

Well considering they updated tire physics and car physics I thought that might be difficult. I don’t think they waved a magic wand and made the wheel better, I think that happened because they updated how the game simulates?

But yeah it has to be frustrating for both sides.

Buy a wheel… hmmm this doesn’t feel a hundred percent accurate to driving there’s weird things that happen in the FFB that don’t feel realistic.

Use a controller… man I’m awesome I’m beating people on that use a wheel! Game updates, tables have turned…

It’s not exactly fair on either. I think maybe certain games lend themselves to a controller more, I think I could play wreckfest or need for speed with a controller and not care if I had a wheel or not. GT7 just upped its game and put itself closer to the more realistic sim category and imo that’s always been the downfall of the game, cool cars, good tracks including original tracks but it’s always just felt like a video game. Project Cars 2 I couldn’t really be all that competitive with a controller, GT7 I was and winning, that was with hardly any practice too. So maybe the handling and everything is closer to project cars 2 now?

who knows.

Pjc 1 and 2 was greate on controller but was overall to me not so good. And im not here to bash because i won against a wheel user. This discussion shouldnt exist if PD did it right. I mean they can do it and have done it but the back and forth is exhausting. I remember good the crying wheel user after patch 1.14 hell was frozen and the forum flips upside down. It should be fair for both and honestly PD/sony is big and good enough to get it right.

 

[hawkeyez]

Pjc 1 and 2 was greate on controller but was overall to me not so good. And im not here to bash because i won against a wheel user. This discussion shouldnt exist if PD did it right. I mean they can do it and have done it but the back and forth is exhausting. I remember good the crying wheel user after patch 1.14 hell was frozen and the forum flips upside down. It should be fair for both and honestly PD/sony is big and good enough to get it right.

Well for sure it’s frustrating when anything updates as it’s all muscle memory. I’ll admit the first corner I went flying off the track after the latest update. At first I was like wtf did they do? But the more I drove it I realized what changed and within a few races I was sold. I guess I just assumed controller users could turn up their traction control and stability management more.

i usually run my room with only countersteering and abs as it deters controller users, we still get them though. I noticed if I have all that traction control stuff enabled the rooms fill up faster but the racing is usually worse imo.

i feel like all they have to do is update the sensitivity curve of the the controller so it’s not so twitchy. For all I know it could be linear right now, I would think you’d want it to ramp up so small or medium thumbstick movements equate to most smooth corners resulting in less correcting or overcorrecting.

But yeah, I guess I don’t care, I’m off controllers now. I do hope they don’t mess with the wheel experience from this point on unless they’re making it even better yet.

 

[Meythia]

i usually run my room with only countersteering and abs as it deters controller users, we still get them though. I noticed if I have all that traction control stuff enabled the rooms fill up faster but the racing is usually worse imo.

I dont understand the relation between TCS and controller player.

 

[RacinLei]

Well for sure it’s frustrating when anything updates as it’s all muscle memory. I’ll admit the first corner I went flying off the track after the latest update. At first I was like wtf did they do? But the more I drove it I realized what changed and within a few races I was sold. I guess I just assumed controller users could turn up their traction control and stability management more.

i usually run my room with only countersteering and abs as it deters controller users, we still get them though. I noticed if I have all that traction control stuff enabled the rooms fill up faster but the racing is usually worse imo.

i feel like all they have to do is update the sensitivity curve of the the controller so it’s not so twitchy. For all I know it could be linear right now, I would think you’d want it to ramp up so small or medium thumbstick movements equate to most smooth corners resulting in less correcting or overcorrecting.

But yeah, I guess I don’t care, I’m off controllers now. I do hope they don’t mess with the wheel experience from this point on unless they’re making it even better yet.

I turned all drive assist off in GT1 and never looked back, cant stand d-assist, i wanna know the limits of the car and not the limits of the assist.
The most important thing is not really the steering speed, it is the 1:1 stick to tire movement like for the wheel user. There is always some sort of lag on controller, we cant reach the end of the steering the same way/speed like wheel user. Cranking up sensetivity is not the solution, then so higher is set it eats more tires and we loose precision.

 

[Meythia]

There is always some sort of lag on controller, we cant reach the end of the steering the same way/speed like wheel user.

I wouldnt call it lag but instead the game is limiting the amount of steering that can be applied with a controller in certain situations
Ignore run 2, because this isnt the topic here, but in run 1 I applied 100% stick input (to prove a point) and the game just says "nah, 80%, no more"

 

[RacinLei]

I wouldnt call it lag but instead the game is limiting the amount of steering that can be applied with a controller in certain situations
Ignore run 2, because this isnt the topic here, but in run 1 I applied 100% stick input (to prove a point) and the game just says "nah, 80%, no more"

It is some sort of lag in it. Take a open wheeler and steer quick. You will see the tire move way slower than youre inputs.

 

[hawkeyez]

I dont understand the relation between TCS and controller player.

I guess from my experience I had difficulties smoothly taking a corner when someone else was on the inside or outside line, traction control helped myself from losing traction as I kept giving input.

Now I wonder if a lot of controller users do exactly that, line up the corner and just go for it, full input. It would explain the divebomb moves and how they tend to drive like nobody is on the track. It’s easy to take a corner full out, but to finesse the car around a corner without being jolty is another story. I found giving steering input was easier than reducing steering input.

I turned all drive assist off in GT1 and never looked back, cant stand d-assist, i wanna know the limits of the car and not the limits of the assist.
The most important thing is not really the steering speed, it is the 1:1 stick to tire movement like for the wheel user. There is always some sort of lag on controller, we cant reach the end of the steering the same way/speed like wheel user. Cranking up sensetivity is not the solution, then so higher is set it eats more tires and we loose precision.

I might need more practice, Ive rarely used all of my steering, on a tight corner like the last corners on spa, yeah I’m a little past 90 but I wouldn’t say turning quickly is an advantage of the wheel? I may be misunderstanding what you mean by way/speed.

 

[AlexWilmot]

It would explain the divebomb moves and how they tend to drive like nobody is on the track.

People with wheels still do this, it's not your peripheral dictating it, stop this nonsense.

It’s easy to take a corner full out, but to finesse the car around a corner without being jolty is another story. I found giving steering input was easier than reducing steering input.

There are plenty people here who use a controller and are not Jolty at all, passing cleaning, a world tour driver uses a controller, our very own MaxPower is a controller player with some impressive overtakes,

This Wheel elitism attitude is really a bad take and needs to stop, but again every person that has a complaint about controller players usually can't drive and have to resort to all the assists like PoopKing.

 

[KoupeKing]

I guess from my experience I had difficulties smoothly taking a corner when someone else was on the inside or outside line, traction control helped myself from losing traction as I kept giving input.

Now I wonder if a lot of controller users do exactly that, line up the corner and just go for it, full input. It would explain the divebomb moves and how they tend to drive like nobody is on the track. It’s easy to take a corner full out, but to finesse the car around a corner without being jolty is another story. I found giving steering input was easier than reducing steering input.

Yea controller users are the worst for dive bombing. They play a simulator like an arcade racer and often will just ram faster drivers off the track to stay in the lead.
Anyway thats enough of this thread. I'll let the poorly skilled controller copers rage in their echo chamber 😂

 

[RacinLei]

I might need more practice, Ive rarely used all of my steering, on a tight corner like the last corners on spa, yeah I’m a little past 90 but I wouldn’t say turning quickly is an advantage of the wheel? I may be misunderstanding what you mean by way/speed.

1:1 ratio wheel to tire movement is quicker then on controller. Quick S corner combos are easyer on wheel then on controller. On wheel you can throw the car into corners, controller needs to drive smoother and more precise ergo less room for errors or correction.

Yea controller users are the worst for dive bombing. They play a simulator like an arcade racer and often will just ram faster drivers off the track to stay in the lead.

You must really loose to often against controller user 🤣 Divebomb is a decision and hase nothing to do with controller.
I bet you drive b-tcam or 3rd person. So much to drive it like arcade game 🤣

 

[Famine]

After already deleting a bunch of deliberately inflammatory nonsense today, I'm not impressed to find more of it.

Enough, and go read the Acceptable Use Policy again.

 

[hawkeyez]

People with wheels still do this, it's not your peripheral dictating it, stop this nonsense.

There are plenty people here who use a controller and are not Jolty at all, passing cleaning, a world tour driver uses a controller, our very own MaxPower is a controller player with some impressive overtakes,

This Wheel elitism attitude is really a bad take and needs to stop, but again every person that has a complaint about controller players usually can't drive and have to resort to all the assists like PoopKing.

Ok the controller elitism has to stop then. I guess I just come across more jolty inconsiderate take whatever line I want screw your race type of drivers who clearly use a controller more than wheel drivers. Of course there’s an exception for anything as I pointed out before, some people could literally play the game with their feet and destroy all other players. Just my experience I guess, every time I’m thinking what is this guys problem (along with other people I race with in a chat party) we’re all saying the same thing and noticing the same thing, he’s all over the place!!

 

[newmedia_dev]

Controllers are less forgiving with input mistakes "typically" than pedals and a wheel.

Where they do really do well is on braking and quick direction changes simply because the range of motion has a total value of 180 degrees in a couple of inches.

I'm faster now with a wheel and pedals but not faster than all controller users or wheel uses. My ability to use a control type limits my outright performance, not the peripheral I use.

 

[hawkeyez]

1:1 ratio wheel to tire movement is quicker then on controller. Quick S corner combos are easyer on wheel then on controller. On wheel you can throw the car into corners, controller needs to drive smoother and more precise ergo less room for errors or correction.


You must really loose to often against controller user 🤣 Divebomb is a decision and hase nothing to do with controller.
I bet you drive b-tcam or 3rd person. So much to drive it like arcade game 🤣

That makes sense, maybe having finer input using a wheel you can drift it thru a corner a little easier as it’s tough to use your thumb to make fine movements.

I just did a race yesterday and was getting divebombed constantly by the same person it absolutely ruined my race and to top it off he was honking away at me like it was my fault. Finally got past him caught up to the pack and ended up getting second place even after battling it out with that guy at the back of the pack. Had fastest lap overall and gained four positions in two laps once I made some distance on him so he could drag me down anymore. I even drove courteously giving him room and not divebombing but he wouldn’t do the same for me. Blocking on straights etc. To top it off, he rage quit, so wasted two or three laps of mine and then just left.

 

[RacinLei]

@hawkeyez
Yep cant stand divebomber. Thats more a character issu then a inputdevice problem.

@KoupeKing
Show off some achivements to convince me you are a better racer then a poo collector.
Disliking my 31laps in lake maggiore says a lot about you…

 

[AlexWilmot]

Ok the controller elitism has to stop then.

What Elitism? no one here is telling you need to run in a separate lobby, sell your equipment or mock people as snowflakes and can't understand car physics because they're using controllers.

I guess I just come across more jolty inconsiderate take whatever line I want screw your race type of drivers who clearly use a controller more than wheel drivers.

Got any evidence to back this up?

Of course there’s an exception for anything as I pointed out before, some people could literally play the game with their feet and destroy all other players. Just my experience I guess, every time I’m thinking what is this guys problem (along with other people I race with in a chat party) we’re all saying the same thing and noticing the same thing, he’s all over the place!!

Have you considered that some people are just bad at driving with a wheel? or that it's this GT7 issue called lag at the moment?

End of the day it sounds like you and Poopking are just making excuses for your lack of performance on track, easier to blame controller users than accept your just not as fast as you think you are.