Theo van Gogh murdered

[milefile]

Don't you feel responsible for all the murders/crime/rape/whatever that are happening in the states/to Christians/to agnostics/whatever? You really should do something about it.

Not really, because they aren't perverting my religion, thereby forcing my association with it. It's not comparable.

 

[TwinTurboJay]

I hate to agree with Milefile, but its true, it is not comparable really....The radical muslims do what they do in the "cause" of their religion, or so they state, where as 99% of the things that happen with the 'christian' sect are just becasue people are idiots, with no other goal then mayhem.

 

[milefile]

Here is the letter, attached to Van Gough's body with a knife, the terrorist left behind. It's addressed to Hirsi Ali, an "ex-Muslim", Somali born member of Parliment, and also to Western Civilization in general. Hirsi Ali has gone into hiding.

"Death, Ms. Hirsi Ali, is the common theme of all that exists. You and the rest of the cosmos cannot escape this truth,"
"There will come a day when one soul cannot help another soul. A day that goes paired with terrible tortures, ... when the unjust will press horrible screams from their lungs.
"Screams, Ms. Hirsi Ali, that will cause chills to run down a person's back, and make the hairs on their heads stand straight up. People will be drunk with fear, while they are not drunken. Fear will fill the air on the Great Day,"
"I know definitely that you, Oh America, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Europe, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Netherlands, will go down. I know definitely that you, Oh Hirsi Ali, will go down,"

 

[1X83Z]

Am I supposed to care? Tell your Muslim friends to reform their religion. It's not my fault that Islam is more famous for killing than anything else.

I don't know dude, history says Catholics love killin'.

 

[Arwin]

I don't know dude, history says Catholics love killin'.

Not to mention very recent history. I seem to remember reading about doctors who perform Abortions being shot here and there in the U.S.

 

[milefile]

Christians are obsessed with death. The entire premise of their religion is . . . well, ever seen Passion of the Christ?

Christians will disagree. But I only say it as someone who became too Christian for his own good a long time ago.

 

[Denur]

Ten years ago Theo was brutally murdered by a muslim. That was a sad day and things have not improved since then: the muslim community still sees itself as the true victims of society (in my opinion) and some of them are still trying to take over the world.

 

[Sir Tuddle]

Ten years ago Theo was brutally murdered by a muslim. That was a sad day and things have not improved since then: the muslim community still sees itself as the true victims of society (in my opinion) and some of them are still trying to take over the world.

He was also murdered by a human, and the human population is also trying to take over the world. Which means you're just as guilty by association.

 

[Denur]

He was also murdered by a human, and the human population is also trying to take over the world. Which means you're just as guilty by association.

I have yet to meet the first muslim to condemn this murder. All I've heard so far are complaints of how bad it made the muslim community look. "Islam is religion of peace" and all that crap. I expect that the vast majority of muslims does not agree with Theo's murder, but I would very much appreciate it, if they came forward and said so, on mass.

 

[1241Penguin]

Why don't we automatically assume that the actions of a few do not represent the majority?

 

[Grayfox]

All I could think about was paintings when I saw this tread.

 

[Bo]

I've heard so far are complaints of how bad it made the muslim community look.

Who can blame them when there are people like you trying to convince people that Muslims are all bloodthirsty and pro-murder?

I have yet to meet the first muslim to condemn this murder.

Fantastic. Because you personally haven't come across a Muslim who's condemned it, every single Muslim on the planet supports murder in your eyes.

I expect that the vast majority of muslims does not agree with Theo's murder, but I would very much appreciate it, if they came forward and said so, on mass.

So... yet again, guilty until proven innocent?

and some of them are still trying to take over the world.

Whatever religion you are, I guarantee there is a psychopath out there who wishes to take over the world who goes by that religion. Based on your argument, are you too evil and attempting to take over the world? Since it's almost certain there are murderers who go by your religion, are you too viewed by society in the same light as those criminals until you make a statement to clarify you are in fact a sane individual?

It's scary and genuinely worrying to think that in this day and age, there are still people in society with such attitudes.

 

[Denur]

Who can blame them when there are people like you trying to convince people that Muslims are all bloodthirsty and pro-murder?

And where did I say that?

Fantastic. Because you personally haven't come across a Muslim who's condemned it, every single Muslim on the planet supports murder in your eyes. ?

Not in person necessarily. An interview or a little protest would have been nice. And again, I didn't say that by not coming out against it, that they support murder.

 

[eran0004]

I have yet to meet the first muslim to condemn this murder. All I've heard so far are complaints of how bad it made the muslim community look. "Islam is religion of peace" and all that crap. I expect that the vast majority of muslims does not agree with Theo's murder, but I would very much appreciate it, if they came forward and said so, on mass.

I expect that the vast majority of christians does not agree with the Ku Klux Klan, but I haven't seen them coming forward and saying so, on mass.

And why would they need to, when they have nothing to do with it?

 

[Bo]

And where did I say that?

This is the whole message you're trying to put across to us.

"Islam is religion of peace" and all that crap.

Don't try and avoid questions by playing the technicalities game. Everyone knows what you're saying.

Not in person necessarily. An interview or a little protest would have been nice. And again, I didn't say that by not coming out against it, that they support murder.

Would you then like to kindly explain what your posts mean?

 

[MarchingSaint]

I have yet to meet the first muslim to condemn this murder. All I've heard so far are complaints of how bad it made the muslim community look. "Islam is religion of peace" and all that crap. I expect that the vast majority of muslims does not agree with Theo's murder, but I would very much appreciate it, if they came forward and said so, on mass.

The vast majority of muslims maybe doesn't even know about this.

 

[Denur]

I expect that the vast majority of christians does not agree with the Ku Klux Klan, but I haven't seen them coming forward and saying so, on mass.

I think they should, when the KKK does bad things in the name of Christianity.

 

[eran0004]

It seems like an impossible demand, because when they do speak out they're faced with this:

"Islam is religion of peace" and all that crap.

 

[1241Penguin]

You do realize that there are extremist bozos in pretty much all political and religious group right?

 

[Denur]

Would you then like to kindly explain what your posts mean?

I'll give it try, but I'm afraid you have already made up your mind about me. When Theo was murdered there was quite a stir here in the Netherlands. Not unlike what happened in the USA after 9/11. In the USA Muslims were attacked and here too was violence against Muslims or their properties. These people had nothing to do with these attacks, but were blamed nonetheless by some. I am strongly against that and cannot stress that enough. The Muslim community made it very clear (through their spokesmen) that the murder of Theo was the act of an individual, an extremist and not all Muslims are like that, not by a long shot. And I agree with that, fully. I guess most will just shrug when a person like Wilders says bad things again about Islam and go on with their lives. What bothers me is that those Muslim leaders who actually spoke about the murder, only seemed to do this to make clear that it was the act of an extremist, without actually condemning the murder. And yes, to me that gives me the impression that these individuals might actually, silently, condone it. Had they condemned the murder, then I don't think Wilders would have gotten so large a following. For the record: I think he is a lunatic.

 

[Scaff]

Not in person necessarily. An interview or a little protest would have been nice. And again, I didn't say that by not coming out against it, that they support murder.

This took 20 seconds on google.

From the day of his murder:
"2 November 2004
AMSTERDAM — Immigrant groups in the Netherlands have forthrightly condemned the assassination of filmmaker and columnist Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam on Tuesday morning.

The Municipal Moroccan Council (SMR) said the "cowardly murder" must not lead to a worsening of relations between Muslims and other residents in Amsterdam. The SMR also described Van Gogh's murder as "despicable".

The SMR said organisations had to do everything to ensure tensions did not escalate in the city now that it was known the suspected killer has both Dutch and Moroccan nationality.

SMR chairman Abdou Menebhi said he hoped the Moroccan community would not suffer a backlash because of the killing. "Escalation is in nobody's interest," he said.

"We call on all Amsterdammers to keep a cool head to come to terms with this murder in a calm manner and to bid farewell to Van Gogh in a dignified fashion," Menebhi said.

Ayhan Tonca of the Turkish Cultural Federation said no motive could justify the killing and that everyone must condemn it. But he cautioned that the identity of the perpetrator had yet to be properly established.
"

http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/country-news/Muslim-groups-condemn-filmmakers-murder_123473.html

This from a few days after:
"Several thousand people demonstrated on Amsterdam's central Dam square and railway drivers were urged to honk their horns to protest the murder.
People banged on drums, pots and pans and blew whistles for some 15 minutes, with some participants holding up signs saying "Muslims against Violence."
Abdou Menebhi, of the Amsterdam Moroccan council, urged his co-religionists to obey a minute of silence in the mosque in the evening during regular Ramadan holy month prayers.
The UMAH association of Moroccan-Dutch academics said they did not share Van Gogh's opinions but condemned his murder."
Source: http://www.rense.com/general59/shot.htm


So yes Muslim leaders did and have condemned the murder, as such your claim that they did not is inaccurate.

What bothers me is that those Muslim leaders who actually spoke about the murder, only seemed to do this to make clear that it was the act of an extremist, without actually condemning the murder.

And yet they did.

 

[sesselpupser]

The Muslim community made it very clear (through their spokesmen) that the murder of Theo was the act of an individual, an extremist and not all Muslims are like that, not by a long shot.

Even the abridged version you've presented sounds like a condemnation to me.

 

[Carbonox]

So it's been ten years since this man was cowardly murdered by a guy whose name I don't remember and don't give a flying 🤬 about, for doing what he is allowed to do under freedom of speech laws.

Ten years, and the West has learned nothing. If anything, we've only slipped further towards political correctness and avoiding the offending of minorities at all costs. What kind of a country calling itself civilized allows something like that Rotherham scandal to take place for as long as it did?

R.I.P. Theo van Gogh, and I hope that one day we'll be able to say you didn't die for nothing...

 

[Joel]

@Denur A Canadian soldier was shot and killed in Ottawa last week, and another run down in Quebec in the name of Islam. As you can imagine, there was a significant public response from Canadians who wanted to reaffirm what true Canadian values mean.

Your position is that Islam inherently involves violence and is not a peaceful faith. Perhaps there's something else at play than religion because in my experience the muslims I've met have been plenty peaceful. Perhaps you could reflect on why Muslims in Canada don't feel like victims of society while those in Europe by your own admission apparently do.

Ten years, and the West has learned nothing..

Knew it wouldn't take long for you to show up here.

So what exactly do you propose "the West" (ignoring that it seems to be mostly white Europe that's terrified of Islam) does about a guy born in the Netherlands comitting a solo act of murder? He got life with no parole. You can't just kick citizens out of a country because of their faith. He was one guy with a gun. There's no vast conspiracy to intercept. He was born in the Netherlands. There's no immigration law that would change these things. Unless you suppose we start imposing restrictions on people based on their faith I don't see what you're advocating for. It would look pretty silly for you to say van Gogh has a right to free speech yet Muslims don't have a right to freedom of religion (which is just an extension of free speech).

 

[kennylmao]

What kind of a country calling itself civilized allows something like that Rotherham scandal to take place for as long as it did?

"Great" Britain. Guess that's what they meant by 'keep calm and carry on'.

 

[Scaff]

So it's been ten years since this man was cowardly murdered by a guy whose name I don't remember and don't give a flying 🤬 about, for doing what he is allowed to do under freedom of speech laws.

Ten years, and the West has learned nothing. If anything, we've only slipped further towards political correctness and avoiding the offending of minorities at all costs. What kind of a country calling itself civilized allows something like that Rotherham scandal to take place for as long as it did?

R.I.P. Theo van Gogh, and I hope that one day we'll be able to say you didn't die for nothing...

What exactly does the UK have to do with a murder in Holland?

Nothing at all, its an off topic attempt to incite and it stops now.

Your posting in the past has already trod a very fine line, keep this up and your membership will be removed. You will not be warned again.

 

[Carbonox]

Knew it wouldn't take long for you to show up here.

Only took this long because I wasn't home yet.

So what exactly do you propose "the West" (ignoring that it seems to be mostly white Europe that's terrified of Islam) does about a guy born in the Netherlands comitting a solo act of murder? He got life with no parole. You can't just kick citizens out of a country because of their faith.

He was one guy with a gun. There's no vast conspiracy to intercept. He was born in the Netherlands. There's no immigration law that would change these things. Unless you suppose we start imposing restrictions on people based on their faith I don't see what you're advocating for.

True, he was one guy and he had a gun. Problem is, now Wilders, who shares similar viewpoints to Van Gogh, is under constant protection because there are more people free as birds - some probably with guns - out there to kill him if given the opportunity. It may not be a conspiracy, but the problem certainly isn't limited to that one guy sitting in jail.

Changing public attitudes would help for a start, and the best possible change is to convince everyone that their religion / ideology is not worth killing another person for, no matter how unpleasant their opinion sounds.

Although Van Gogh's killer unfortunately sounds like a deranged person who is already beyond any help or rehabilitation. And most likely he's not the only one.

It would look pretty silly for you to say van Gogh has a right to free speech yet Muslims don't have a right to freedom of religion (which is just an extension of free speech).

Of course they have freedom of religion. However, Jihadism and death threats are not part of it.

 

[Flaco13]

This took 20 seconds on google.

From the day of his murder:
"2 November 2004
AMSTERDAM — Immigrant groups in the Netherlands have forthrightly condemned the assassination of filmmaker and columnist Theo van Gogh in Amsterdam on Tuesday morning.

The Municipal Moroccan Council (SMR) said the "cowardly murder" must not lead to a worsening of relations between Muslims and other residents in Amsterdam. The SMR also described Van Gogh's murder as "despicable".

The SMR said organisations had to do everything to ensure tensions did not escalate in the city now that it was known the suspected killer has both Dutch and Moroccan nationality.

SMR chairman Abdou Menebhi said he hoped the Moroccan community would not suffer a backlash because of the killing. "Escalation is in nobody's interest," he said.

"We call on all Amsterdammers to keep a cool head to come to terms with this murder in a calm manner and to bid farewell to Van Gogh in a dignified fashion," Menebhi said.

Ayhan Tonca of the Turkish Cultural Federation said no motive could justify the killing and that everyone must condemn it. But he cautioned that the identity of the perpetrator had yet to be properly established.
"

http://www.expatica.com/nl/news/country-news/Muslim-groups-condemn-filmmakers-murder_123473.html

This from a few days after:
"Several thousand people demonstrated on Amsterdam's central Dam square and railway drivers were urged to honk their horns to protest the murder.
People banged on drums, pots and pans and blew whistles for some 15 minutes, with some participants holding up signs saying "Muslims against Violence."
Abdou Menebhi, of the Amsterdam Moroccan council, urged his co-religionists to obey a minute of silence in the mosque in the evening during regular Ramadan holy month prayers.
The UMAH association of Moroccan-Dutch academics said they did not share Van Gogh's opinions but condemned his murder."
Source: http://www.rense.com/general59/shot.htm


So yes Muslim leaders did and have condemned the murder, as such your claim that they did not is inaccurate.


And yet they did.

Did you take into consideration that this 'condemning' could be nothing but Taqyyia?

 

[Scaff]

Did you take into consideration that this 'condemning' could be nothing but Taqyyia?

Only if you have no idea what Taqyyia actually is, it's history, which Muslim sects allows its use and its limits.

Hint, it's not a blanket lie to the infidels get out of jail free card.

 

[MarchingSaint]

Of course they have freedom of religion. However, Jihadism and death threats are not part of it.

Jihad doesn't necessarily mean blow yourself up, looking up for the translation means "effort for god" so jihadism could be charity or else.
Death treats on the other hand...