Things I believe would revive Gran Turismo

[MasterGT]

GT4 = beta

It took them how long to create this version? Did I hear you say "Many years!"?
ToCA3 is being released after about 1 1/4 years after ToCA2, so explain this to me, so that even I can understand.

I won't bother mentioning AI and physics, since that has already be discussed above.

Replayability!

Players are doing things such as Photo Mode contests because they seem to have given up on racing. Meanwhile, PD can say, "Look, everyone is using PM. It must be a good thing!" Um, maybe it was because they lost the desire to race? Naaa, couldn't be.

Previous versions had some sort of incentive to play and play again. GT4 has the least incentive in the whole series. The latest version has the most cars, but we only have to race an event once, to get only one car. With hundreds and hundreds available, we only get ONE possible prize car. What were they thinking? GT3 had the random prize pack which kept many players up far too late into the night. If GT4 had, say, a five prize rotation, random or not, that means we could win nearly every car just by repeating races.

Increase the fun factor!

Having no on-line, in this day and age, was a huge mistake. They knew, way back in its early developement stage, that on-line was a problem. They did not/could not fix it, while other similar games are on-line capable and more capable. What is wrong with this picture, folks? It seems that in Kaz's desire to keep GT "looking good", we pay the ultimate price. PD knows we (used to) compete with this game, but they removed just about _everything_ that a scrutineer or a competitor needs or requires, to make it all work efficiently. To do this right, they need to make an analysis tool which can read a replay file and expose every detail about player and AI cars and our races.

Doing everything possible to support multi-player and 2-player modes should have been at the top of their improvement lists. There would be no better use of their time than for increasing the GT fun factor. Only recently did they release a manual that explains how to set up a LAN. How long did they have to make a real manual? Oh, that's right! Years!

Blurry Focus

In their quest to have GT become everything to everyone, it has turned into white bread - the lowest common denominator, except in graphics and the quantity of cars. But even their car choices leave much to be desired, by even the loosest of comparisons.

Time spent on returning all of their own track designs, ones on which they don't have to pay any royalties or get any licences, was a mistake. Getting more real life tracks would have been even better.

Game Play

There is more to this subject, but it would be helpful, to quite a few players, if they had some sort of better tracking system which indicated which events still needed winning. GT4 is a relatively large game and making it easy for new players to get into it or emmerse into it, would benefit everyone.

This discussion won't end until PD responds to our needs, rather than catering to all of Kaz's desires.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Hun200kmh]

This is a bit silly, but I really don't know what it is that GT4 is missing to make it worthy of its predecessors. If we look at the numbers (cars, tracks, races, missions, tests), it should be the "mother of all games", to quote a "famous statesman".

Yet, it isn't.

Why? litle things, like this one: In GT4 I never had the constraint of money or the poor cars I had in my garage, in the begining of a career, like it happened in GT3, where I remember to squeeze all I could from my first car (the Miata) before I could move to a better one.

And what can I say about the new features ... they didn't impress me:

B-Spec? meh ... if this was supposed to be a "Race Manager" sub-game, it's a class Z one.

c) Photomode? ok, ok, I even made a slideshow of my Mission 34, with classical music (Liszt), and it was fun ...

c) 24H endurance races? with six cars? without sunset, night and sunrise?

I think a game must be fun, all of it. As it is, the most fun I got from GT4 were the license tests and the missions.

They must re-think the career mode, I guess.

(I didn't speak of the AI, online, physics, car selection, etc., because there's no need ... and because I think that what GT5 really needs, besides improving these aspects, is to have a career mode that is both chalenging and rewarding. That, to me, was the biggest flaw in GT4 ... a game I stopped playing, at about 80% and with hundreds of cars in my garage, nearly one year ago, and I still don't miss playing it).

 

[Tenacious D]

I don't think anything will "revive" Gran Turismo. I think that some people get tired of sequels, no matter how good or revolutionary they are. Some of these guys think there's almost no difference between Gran Turismo 2 and 4. What do you do with someone like that? They undoubtedly want a Gran Turismo which is like the current game they're playing. Which if it's Metal Gear or Battlefield 2, what's the point? Or if it's Forza, what's the point again? They obviously want Forza, not Gran Turismo.

If people don't think that having twenty cars or so in a race, with AI much more like PC games will be a huge change of pace, along with the potential of downloadable content, cars which can be painted, and your own music installed, then nothing will change their minds. Just write them off. It's not like Gran Turismo in any form isn't going to sell PS3s.

I'm confident that Gran Turismo will be the biggest selling game on the PS3 just like it was on the PS2.

 

[kart racer]

I just skimmed over this, so if this has already been said,sorry.
I do enjoy GT4 and am still playing it as of today.I feel that to get that "real feel" that a lot of you are saying is missing will never be added.Because you don't get to feel the G's.If you had the sence of them then you could say that it is totally real!
The few changes that I would like to see are:
1) The abillity to paint the cars and to pick your own #.This might be included if the on line portion happens.
2) In the JTC.I beleve that they run 2 classes at the same time.A 500 and a 350.?It would be nice if they had a race for the smaller cars as they are fun to drive.Right now,the only way to run these cars with the other JTC is to mod them to the max and I feel that this takes away the realisim of the game.
3) Open up at least one race per country that you can enter any car.There are allot of Japanese cars here in North America but yet you can't run one in the champiomship.


Just a few ideas.

 

[JohnBM01]

My days and nights are better chatting with you, Kart Racer. Welcome back, old friend.

There is a lot of truth to what "Tenacious D" is talking about. I usually call myself a self-proclaimed Gran Turismo insider in terms of social and public opinion about the Gran Turismo series. With all the different posts and comments people make about GT, I normally think about things and imagine if we can actually make GT fun for as many people as possible. I wanted to tackle the issue of if PD's current formula for GT is still working, needs work, or is getting completely old. About 70% of people will likely say that GT's current formula either needs work or is completely old. Sequels are only bad if they don't completely live up to or are better than the first game or the one before. Some of the most successful franchises can last so long and do as well as they can. Mario series. MegaMan series. Metal Gear and Metal Gear Solid series. Madden NFL series. Grand Theft Auto series. You name it. The one thing I've hated was that if I really liked a game with its current formula, that others think it's crap. You can't make me share the same interests, much less myself sharing the same interests. Gran Turismo isn't made for only one person, isn't made to meet only one person's desires... and basically doesn't change unless many people feel there's something that is killing the series and needs immediate action. It also has to be something PD can actually fix so that it doesn't completely ruin the aura and atmosphere of the GT series. You're probably thinking of the AI when I talk about this, but I normally like to think the AI drivers bumped into about 20% less than GT3.

All in all, the next game in a series is only going to be as good as people will say it will be. It all depends on how PD designs the whole package to be better than the last. You know what the sad thing is? I can't really think of anything to really "revive" Gran Turismo, speaking as a veteran. Reviving usually means that something has to return to its past glory and do something completely amazing to bring a good game or game series back to its top-of-the-food-chain days. I think bringing back Racing Modifications would bring it back for me. If they can't do that, the next best thing is to sort of have several different car modding elements in which we can piece together parts and such to make our own sugar-sweet race cars.

What exactly would revive GT, if GT is slowly dying to some of you? Comment now. I'm done.

 

[Badsight]

personally , after i had won everything i played GT1 simply for hot-lapping record setting

i badly miss (since GT2) not seeing the all-time record on constant display

 

[SavageEvil]

I've played GT2, 3 and 4 immensely, GT2 was played without fail, because it had great appeal, wonderful course layouts, loads of different cars. Many cars that have since been MIA are my all time GT fave rides. GT3 I played a lot because it was the graphics and the better feel for the physics, cars weren't too unweildly, but basically it was a graphical upgrade of GT2, without all the parts that made GT2 the King. GT4 is like GT2 in many ways, it's the last GT game on the console, has an immense car lineup, upgraded physics and the like. If GT4 and 2 could be melded together, wth all the pros from each game and the cars, that would be a GT to lay waste to all other console driving games.

Now everyone talks about AI, but as tupid as the AI in GT4 seems to play it's not very stupid at all, just programmed with very simple sub routines. I for one have noticed on many occasions the AI in GT4 making very good judgement calls, in the Premium Sports race, I watched the Zonda simply avoid a collision as effortlessly as I would. The AI isn't dumb, it's just slow sometimes very slow, on Le Sarthe you notice it off and on, especially when a faster car is slip streaming, sometimes they will slingshot right past you without touching your car, other times they will run right up to you and brake, or worse, ram your car. I would say that PD didn't program the AI efficiently enough on the PS2, or the processor is just not up to snuff with the demands of the code.

I own Forza, and their AI is in the same boat, either it's a little slow at times or the processor isn't up to snuff with the demands. The amount of times I've had the AI broadside my car on turns in Forza is ridiculous, in GT4 the AI will usually back off when you press back, but in Forza these guys will be like a tank and keep going until they have completed their turn.

Physics, hmmm. GT4 isn't the be all end all of physics, it's quite good, but it's the tire compounds that messes up GT4, the compounds are somewhat ridiculous in grip capacity at times, the standard tires offer closer to reality type grip, but for certain cars it's ridiculous because these vehicles come with specially designed tire compounds(patented) which of course isn't liscenced by PD so we get those icy sport tires in place of real tires made specifically for the super cars. PD needs to get Michelin, bridgestone, Goodyear, Yokohama, Hangkook and the like in the next game, they need to have realistic tire selection, not generic brand sport S2's. Oh and tires sizes should be adjustable front and rear independantly. PD i think intentionally dialed out donuts, there is no way that you could test this game and not notice you can't do donuts, it's that way for every car in the game, so it had to be a purposely done thing, especially if they had to test drive each vehicle, the D1GP car ? can't turn a donut? Intentional. A lot of people i have seen on boards argue about GT4 understeer, but when I play the game the only time I notice understeer is when I brake at the wrong time, one can argue that most accidents in racing happen because of understeer(inability to turn), not oversteer(too much rear rotation). Every car has it's own balance of oversteer understeer, it's finding out how to drive the car well that will help you control it.

Will people quit the gripe about the Skylines, it's not like they are forcing you to drive them. Seems like no matter how well crafted and delivered a game is, there will be those who gripe. It's you prerogative to gripe, but there is a limit you know.

 

[road kill]

Here are a few ideas I have had about things to revive Gran Turismo to it's once dominant state.


o Point to Point races. I'm not one to say we need a million of them, but for some maufacturer races, these would be golden. Point to Point races can best be utilized because you can focus on portions of tracks that exploit the strengths of certain cars. It also will teach players and drivers alike how to play in a bind. It will force the player to learn to drive agressively while maintaining a safe distance and speed and undertaking proper passing prodecures.

o More race limitations. Sure, it's fun to max out your car, but it takes nearly all of the excitement of GT away. The game simply put, needs to be more challenging. The ability to surpass your opponents off of the line within seconds simply kills a lot of the "fun factor". If they were to add a bit more off the line excitement by implementing some more limitations, such as power, turbo vs. N/A, more tire limitations, weight, and possibly drive train, then I think it would greatly improve a lot of the races more than AI ever could, which brings me to my next point.

o AI. Can it be improved? Yes. But how sould it be improved? Simple. The main thing that the AI lacks right now is awarness. This hinders it greatly. If the AI were aware of it's surroundings, meaning it would avoid hitting other cars, then it would improve significantly. However, it is not. It may fool you into thinking that it is aware during the starting grid, since the cars to not hit eachother, however, this is simply due to pre-programmed race lines that the cars follow. Also, the AI needs to be toned down for higher powered cars, reason being, the AI does not manage high powered cars well at all, it simply follows a raceline and the extra power hinders it because they AI has no idea how to control grip.

o Reward System. Sure, getting money and buying cars is fun, however, other than the goal of a percentage, there is little to gain from GT. I think a few things are in place here, and I will discuss them in sub topics.

o Leader Boards. GT is in DIRE need of a leader board. It would have been the easiest way to give the game some "online" interactivity. Just post up lap times with restrictions on certain corses on a server provided by PD, and BAM, you have people nation wide competing to be the fastest without having to race each other, you now have GOALS.

o Aside from trophy cars and money, GT, in my opinion, should offer videos to those who win certain races. Footage of rare cars, information on certain cars, and so forth, could be provided. Something like Top Gear (only not full of idiots). Just a man telling us about the history of the car, something similar to what you would see in Best Motoring videos.

o Now, take this with a grain of salt, as it's just an idea. But car shows, or competitions and such, would be fun. For example, imagine gathering up onilne in a lobby, and having an entry fee for said car show. From here, spectators and on lookers could look at the cars and vote on them, and the winner could take home the pot. Other events could be equally exciting, such as a gamble mode or something, where you can bet on certain racers during an event as a spectator if the room is full, etc. Also, I completely understand that this system is flawed, lol, but it's an idea.

o Banks. If GT had a bank, it would be awesome. The ability to take out loans, make deposit's, gain interest, and loan others money (with the intent to get paid back w/interest) would be great. I think this would give a bit more variety to the game rather than the "race and earn" side of the coin.


o More weather conditions. It's completely understandable that no motorsport takes place during rain, or snow, however, for novelty, it would be enjoyable.

o Wider variety of "time of day" tracks. I want to race some tracks during the day, btu can't, like wise with racing during the day. This would not offer a significant amount of replay, but it would still be ineteresting. Especailly if your field of vision was slightly limited to your headlights etc (while in cabin or bumper cam, for example).



These are just a few of the ideas I had, that were *slightly* out of the obvious additions and ideas.


Discuss


OH...and of course, who could forget reverse lights...sooo important.

yeah very good idea's a.i definitley needs tweaking better wall physics and the stupid 5 second penalty pisses me off!!!! the a.i slams into me and i get a penalty... and yea i love ur point to point race idea and weather time of day etc i also think online it could start randomly raining at any time or something..and also some touge tracks i want tracks that are purely technical like trial mountain just without the long straightaways that i hate...

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm not going to joke around and say either game is perfect, but I still say that your judgement of "physics" is merely based on "how hard the game is". I seriously doubt you have any experience in autosports, let alone how tire compounds react to the surface of the road under different conditions, or how weight transition works effectively. Forza has horrible physics in terms of weight, gravity, and inertia, however, it is far ahead of GT4 in tire modeling, but you only seem to think the difficulty of the game reflects it's physics engine, which is the common misconception amongst amatuer gamers.

Guess I've missed some chatting, but here it goes:

I've been playing racing games for as long as I can recall, dating all the way back to the NES and SNES, Top Gear being one of my all-time favorite racing games. For many years, there was no doubt in my mind that Gran Turismo was indeed the ultimate driving series available on any platform, but when games like Project Gotham and Forza came into the mix, my opinion changed.

I didn't think Forza was any harder than GT4, if anything it was a helluva lot easier, as I beat it only a few weeks after purchase (I still havent beaten GT4 though). I would suppose its a preference thing, but Forza (atleast to me) seems like they have done a much better job with the feeling of the cars, making you think twice about your braking distance and handeling abilities, espically when dealing with esses on some tracks. Cars are much more prone to spinning in Forza, even with the driving aids on, which does add to the difficulty to the game, but if you pay attention to what the car is doing, it can be fixed easily.

If there is anything to back up my "outrageous" idea that GT4 has some problems with physics, its the fact (and I mean FACT) that sub 8-minute lap times (in the neighborhood of 7:40) are obtainable with a STOCK Nissan 350Z on the Nürburgring is so wrong, its not funny. The fastest time with an apparently stock 350Z was 8:26 in 2003. I would put a truely stock model closer to 9:00 myself, which can be easily matched in Forza.

I may not race cars for a living, but with the driving I have done on the road in everything from a Fox to a Corvette or Viper, Forza (to me) seems like they have done a much better job at matching real-life to in-game driving in most situations.

 

[kart racer]

Glad to be back John.

 

[SavageEvil]

YSSMAN, never bring up Forza and the Nurburgring in the same sentence, that games rendition of that course is soo far from realistic, from look, road surface, and layout. I had checked the BMW nurburgring guide and guess what, almost none of the braking points matched in Forza. Mind you the pointers were given from a professional BMW test driver, so stay away from comparing times on the Nür in Forza.

Now with the amount of time I spent on Forza, there is one thing that really sticks out, every cars has this built in ability to slide, a lot. I know cars tend to do that, but in Forza it's pretty much out of hand. Most annoying thing is the tire screech sounds, they are pretty much wrong, I've driven my dad's SUV pretty hard at times and have screeched the tires on turns, never once has it ever sounded like the garbage i hear in Forza. That stuff sounds like you are sliding a brick on a piece of paper covered in sand.

Forza's tire physics are very good, when it comes to showing how ABS, TCS and STM react, that I really like, GT4 has nothing on that, because in GT4 you can't disable ABS.

Back to topic:

Hey road kill, i think you meant crash physics, not wall physics. Walls do not have physics as they do not move. lol. Tha-Con brings up lots of good points, some of which are pretty much guaranteed, like weather and time of day changes.

Here are some things i think should be added most definately.

manipulation of braking power, a dynamometer, torque/hp graph overlays so you can tailor transmission ratios, ECU customization, independant tire pressure settings, saving during endurance races, even more realistic car representation(cars should reflect their real world counterparts exactly, no ABS cars should not have them in the game). There are more, but my mind is running on empty at the moment, long weekend.

 

[YSSMAN]

...Ive noticed how different the Nürburgring has looked between the games that it has poped up in, and although GT4 (and now PGR3) have the most accurate representations of the track, Forza was definatley an improvement over it's sister-title PGR2. Sure, the track is wider and the start/finish line is in the wrong spot (depends on how you look at it, actually)... But do you mind explaining why the Nürburgring on Forza gives more accurate lap times than the one in GT4? Using the same 350Z, I usually get about a minuite difference in lap times, using the same driving line (as I should have ingrained into my forehead)?

 

[3-Wheel Drive]

I always wondered why Gran Turismo cars have never had reverse lights, when virtually every other racing game I've played had them. They can't be hard to code, just make the clear part of the tailight housing light up when you press "reverse", just like making the red part light up when you press "brake". Simple, really.

 

[JohnBM01]

People talk about car companies running out of ideas on designing cars. Hell, we're running out of other ideas about how to improve the GT series. Travelling down the cul de sac known as Reverse Lights, I never really seen reverse lights in racing. Only variation I probably know of is seeing Emergency Lights used on a car. Other than that, there is an expression in sports that goes, "if I don't see it, I can't call it." I don't really see reverse lights in racing, so I can't really say it should be featured. NASCAR doesn't use lights. Formula One has those tiny lights at the back on the car, but I doubt they've used them. I think sportscar racing uses them, but you do not see it much. I bet rally racing SURELY uses them. Since you don't see it too much, why bother?

I wonder what the next Gran Turismo-based cul de sac we'll get around next...

 

[<_Spike_>]

On a side note the F1 cars rear light is for racing in moderate-heavy rain...and it was kinda used in GT3...as a brake light/rear light for night racing

 

[SavageEvil]

...Ive noticed how different the Nürburgring has looked between the games that it has poped up in, and although GT4 (and now PGR3) have the most accurate representations of the track, Forza was definatley an improvement over it's sister-title PGR2. Sure, the track is wider and the start/finish line is in the wrong spot (depends on how you look at it, actually)... But do you mind explaining why the Nürburgring on Forza gives more accurate lap times than the one in GT4? Using the same 350Z, I usually get about a minuite difference in lap times, using the same driving line (as I should have ingrained into my forehead)?

It's true that for some reason you can get faster times in GT4 that in real life, mainly because you have no fear factor when blazing down the more treacherous parts of the course, and I think a few parts in GT4's Nür is a tad shorter. But in a 350Z on standard tires you can go just shy faster than real life, in Forza there is no fear factor, but you still make times that are close to real life. Strange why is it some of the harder parts of the Nür in Forza, you can whip through it with ease, like just before Adeneur Forst in Forza with just about any car you don't even have to slow down, you can just blast through it, in real life you'd shoot off the road if you tried that, there are lots more places in which you drive at excessive speeds in Forza. But yet you can't come close to beating real world times, even without fear factor, realistic?!?! I beg to differ, don't you find something wrong with that equation? I think that the Nür in Forza is actually longer that the actual road, that's my assesment.

 

[<_Spike_>]

Well in the end you'll never truely get any real fear factor in the game. I remember beating Micheal Schumachers time around Monaco 2 years ago in one of the F1 cars by about 3 seconds (in GT3), simply because I wasn't scared of careering into a wall and ending up 'dead', same deal with GT4

 

[JohnBM01]

There you go, <_Spike_>. Street courses are challenging, but not difficult. Good job to you.

MasterGT, I respect you here on GTPlanet. Like your commentary and all. But I disagree with a lot of the stuff in Post #61. TIME Yes, it's taken a while to make the game. I think as long as the game still comes out hotter than chili, then that's all that matters. I was okay with the delays. I loved to play the game, but I wasn't just waiting for ages. I know it's just an expression "many years to make GT." Is there a rule specifying that games should be released in no less than three years, otherwise the franchise must retire? Take all the time you need to get it right, just don't cancel the game. I think we're going to see brand-new material if not at E3, then especially with the Tokyo Game Show. Of course, E3 shouldn't be too far away. REPLAYABILITY I usually think that very tough races don't need to be run again if you already proven yourself. I keep running and re-running the Costa di Amalfi Easy race to make some easy paper (slang term for money). Replayability usually means me doing Family Cup races so that I give the cars some action. I think many will have to agree that the inclusion of Family Cup races actually gives you a chance to do some exhibition racing outside of the regular races. That's because if you didn't have these events, then you'll just be racing in the Sunday Cup and Clubman Cups racing specific tracks rather than picking your own. I usually think of replayability as, "if I started up a brand-new game, will I enjoy this redo as much as I did the previous time(s)? I'll admit... if I restarted GT4, I'd be ready to lose months and months of getting to where I'm at (74 or 75 percent complete). INCREASING FUN FACTOR/ONLINE I labeled this as fun factor and online, since most of it is on the online aspect. You know that I'm not really an online guy, so I don't bother with this as much. I got tired of all the talk like "no online, but in its place..." and "no online, but same crappy AI." I mean, they tried to get it all in and then fail to get it complete. I'm okay with no online, personally. I would want it in anyways for other people who want a little online racing action. I thought racing trucks and vans was a pretty interesting deal, as was drifting around George V Paris or Costa di Amalfi. BLURRY FOCUS I don't mind the focus on cars. I'm okay with a mix of fantasy and real courses. I'm perfectly fine because a challenge is a challenge. It doesn't have to be all real tracks, all the time. I usually like fantasy courses, just to see a game company use its imagination and come up with a track outside of normal tracks. Just make it fun and interesting and respect is what they will get from me. GAME PLAY I've always liked open-ended game play, and your tracking idea is probably the best one I'll agree with. Sometimes, I don't even know if I've opened up EVERYTHING or won everything. A collection of what's needed to win would be a nice idea. We can have the option in the My Home menu or something, so we can track what races we must complete to win. In addition, I had an idea in GT4's forums about a specific indicator of what races you can enter a certain car into. We didn't get something like that in GT4, so GT5 is always a chance to see this feature added.

Overall, Gran Turismo has long been debated. I sometimes wish there could be a nicer racing focus like in Codemasters racing games. But as much as I like racing, I am okay with a focus on racing anything and everything without having to worry about stuff like sponsorship or anything. Racing aspects can be improved, but I'd still want the feel that while a racer, that this isn't a hardcore racing game. A finely-defined middle ground between the more casual aspect of racing and the professional aspects of racing would make many fans happy, much less myself. My suggestion- do as many things right as possible, and keep mistakes to a minimum. Only GT letdown for me was GT2. I just hope GT5 doesn't become another GT2, or GT2 + GT3.

 

[kart racer]

💡 Just to throw a wild pitch,how about some GO_KARTS!!!!!!!

 

[SavageEvil]

JohnBM01 has a point with being notified before hand which cars are eligible for which races, it's far too annoying as it is in GT4. In addition to that, they should also include a list for when browsing through the used car lots, the list should have what car, model and make you already have be able to compare specs.

But definately GT needs to have a finely defined focus when it comes to racing. Most of the time, when the LM cars come out, it still feels like a sunday cup race, there really isn't an aggression level for the AI, the faster car with the most control will get to the head of the pack. The AI driven cars can't even use the cars full power, this is fact even if the on-screen display shows them at full acceleration, they aren't, as a matter of fact, with a rolling start, the read-out is at full throttle, yea that's stupid.

Finely tuned physics(vehicular and tire) should provide an even more realistic experience, hopefully there will be particle effects that can litter courses with oil, tire compound, and dirt/sand. I would like to see road temps come into play, this would be amazing on the Nür, it's length and elevations alone will cause it to have varying temps all throughout the course. But the thing that is sorely missing is a more immersive viewpoint, im sorry, but driving a car from the viewpoint in all GT's is ridiculous, your overtaking judgement is somewhat stifled because of this. I drive daily and when you play GT it feels kinda warped, because you tailgate another car and you can't see around it. It's highly annoying, but I have learned to live with it, because of the systems limitations, but no longer does it have those excuses.

 

[matherto]

The online aspect should allow for people to view races in progress (whilst making excellent use of GT-style replay angles) so that then the next racers will know what they're up against, something similar to Gotham.TV, but better obviously because it's Gran Turismo on the PS3

 

[<_Spike_>]

There you go, <_Spike_>. Street courses are challenging, but not difficult. Good job to you.

Thanks, that does almost bug me in a weird little way if I were honest. The fact that they're just not challenging enough if you catch my drift (no pun there). It's another thing that could help GT, some real life track realism. In both GT3 and GT4 the streets of Monaco around the Cote D'Azur were far from the real Porsche GT/Formula 1 lay out, which was rather annoying

 

[MasterGT]

TIME Yes, it's taken a while to make the game. I think as long as the game still comes out hotter than chili, then that's all that matters. I was okay with the delays. I loved to play the game, but I wasn't just waiting for ages. I know it's just an expression "many years to make GT." Is there a rule specifying that games should be released in no less than three years, otherwise the franchise must retire? Take all the time you need to get it right, just don't cancel the game.

I think you missed my point. They took their time and we still got a beta version! Did we get our money's worth out of all of that dev time? In some ways, yes; in others ways, it's the same old, same old, but it is what stayed the same that annoys so many long term players. Robotic AI and odd things still within their physics should have been ironed out by now, but they seem to feel GT has to be everything to everyone, what has worked the last 3 times will work again, and it is losing them loyal players.

Codemasters improved ToCA a lot, too, but they did it in a bit over a year's time. Both companies made compromises, true, but it will be the focus on various improvements and each game's strengths and weaknesses that will separate these two games and companies.

Cheers,

MasterGT

 

[Tenacious D]

Gran Turismo 5 should be much more challenging thanks to all the horsepower the PS3 will offer. For one thing, the bot cars should be tuned to the tracks, allowing them to get the best performance out of them.

What I mean is, if you ever watch a replay and switch to a bot car to see how they navigated the track, you'll notice that their transmission is set to some default, so that on short tracks, they'll never reach their top gear. This may be another reason that GT5 might have a difficulty selection. Probably not, but we'll see.

 

[tha_con]

Guess I've missed some chatting, but here it goes:

I've been playing racing games for as long as I can recall, dating all the way back to the NES and SNES, Top Gear being one of my all-time favorite racing games. For many years, there was no doubt in my mind that Gran Turismo was indeed the ultimate driving series available on any platform, but when games like Project Gotham and Forza came into the mix, my opinion changed.

I didn't think Forza was any harder than GT4, if anything it was a helluva lot easier, as I beat it only a few weeks after purchase (I still havent beaten GT4 though). I would suppose its a preference thing, but Forza (atleast to me) seems like they have done a much better job with the feeling of the cars, making you think twice about your braking distance and handeling abilities, espically when dealing with esses on some tracks. Cars are much more prone to spinning in Forza, even with the driving aids on, which does add to the difficulty to the game, but if you pay attention to what the car is doing, it can be fixed easily.

If there is anything to back up my "outrageous" idea that GT4 has some problems with physics, its the fact (and I mean FACT) that sub 8-minute lap times (in the neighborhood of 7:40) are obtainable with a STOCK Nissan 350Z on the Nürburgring is so wrong, its not funny. The fastest time with an apparently stock 350Z was 8:26 in 2003. I would put a truely stock model closer to 9:00 myself, which can be easily matched in Forza.

I may not race cars for a living, but with the driving I have done on the road in everything from a Fox to a Corvette or Viper, Forza (to me) seems like they have done a much better job at matching real-life to in-game driving in most situations.

I always love when lap times get brought into this discussion.

Do you know WHY the lap times are faster? Because it certinaly has a lot less to do with physics than you think.

You see, in real life, drivers must use precaution, you cannot take those chances to push a car that much, especailly not on tracks like the Nurb, where deaths pile up year after year. No driver in his right mind is going to push a car to the limit, like that, especailly not a Stock 350Z. Do you understand how fast you have to be going? Just because you "can do it" in a game, THINK for a minute, about driving the same way in a real 350Z with your life at stake. That has nothing to do with "physics" and everything to do with driver mentality.

Again...I autocross regularly, twice a month during the season, I have 3 sets of rims with 3 different kinds of tires. As far as feeling, physics, and response, GT4 is pretty close, but it has it's faults in areas, but all of those area's are strange situations for the most part.

Also, the GT4 tire model is very poor.

 

[Dave A]

GT4's physics are very good, far, far from being truely comparable toa real cars tough, but thats the case for all sim's, theres no game engine out at the moment that's THAT good. Another thing is the tyres you use in GT4, when you buy/win a new car, the tyre's fitted are not comparable to the real life tyres, the road tyres available from the tune shops are, depending on the car you've got will depend on which road tyres will mimic the real cars best.

 

[kart racer]

💡 Just a thought.It would be nice to have a place where you can take your F1 car to and work on it.Also see all of the color options that they have for the car.