Thrustmaster T150/TMX Force Feedback Racing Wheels
- Thread starter super_gt
- 385 comments
- 202,738 views
- 3,943
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
Absolutely right: Potential buyers need to understand the wheel in terms of motor strength, cog noise/rattle, belt-induced latency or loss of crispness and internal drag (both of the motor and of the cog/belt mechanism).
Comparative one finger spin tests should be a compulsory part of any video review of a racing wheel.
P.S. One thing I really love about the T300RS is that it has very low drag, comparable or better than the G25. Personally of the wheels I've owned I'd rate drag from worst to best: DFGT < Fanatec GT2 < T500RS < G25 < T300RS. Sounds like the T150 is at the DFGT end of the spectrum, which is not unexpected given the specs (1080 degrees, belts) and price. But reviews should be honest about this.
- 255
- Pittsburgh, PA
- SilverSE102
I personally would go with the t300, I've had mine now for 4 months now and it is still going strong. I went from a dfgt to the t300 and it was night and day in how the cars feel on the track, I was the same way when I was deciding on a new wheel. I had doubts about the t300's reliability from everything I was reading and I took the plunge anyway and got it and so far I don't regret getting the t300.Wow I didn't expect the T150 to have even lower FFB than DFGT. I expect it to be comparable to the G25/27 at least. I think I might have to splurge on the T300 for my next wheel after all
I think Logitech Gxx users are facing the most headache when faced with next gen compatibility. Logitech G29 is too expensive for the same tech. T150 is well priced but is a downgrade. T300 is too expensive. And none of them comes with the peace of mind reliability and 3 pedal set + shifter out of the box.
- 404
- Indianapolis, I
Ever sat in a real car? Real steering wheels have some inherent internal drag, unless you're looking at a really crappy over-assisted power steering system, which is the kind of thing you WOULDN'T find in most cars that racing sims try to replicate.
People who want free-spinning G27 characteristics for drifting are asking for a wheel that is LESS like a real wheel, and more like a toy, IMO. This is why the ISRTV review didn't address internal drag -- because it's NOT really the issue that people would like to make it out to be.
- 3,943
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
I always look at it very simply: If you have low drag you can always add extra resistance/damping. If you have high drag you can never reduce that resistance.
For example rally cars: They have very light highly assisted steering and throw the wheel around like crazy. Running a wheel with relatively high damping does get in the way of that experience.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
That's all well and good except I want that feeling after I turn the wheel on and send some ffb signals to it, not before the damn thing is even in use. The ffb motor has to over come all that internal drag before you start feeling anything the developer has programmed. That's all lost ffb that the end user is losing. According to that logic than this wheel is more realistic feeling than a Bodnar wheel and the like. After all the drag ,according to you, on the T150 is much closer to real life than those wheels are, with there free spinning nonsense.
- 2,858
- Australia
And, having realistic drag levels is only really going to work when having a realistic level of force anyway - which the T150 is obviously aeons away from having. Lower drag means increased relative resistance (force), and with a weak wheel, that's a big deal. The lower end Fanatec wheels probably have near to the worst ratio of drag to force. The motors may be a tad more powerful than the G2xs, but the Logitechs will still have a wider dynamic range. A dynamic range closer to a scaled realism than the Fanatecs. It works the other way around as well of course - a wheel with a high level of force can tolerate more drag and still have a ratio decently scaled for realism.
So, any wheel with a puny motor needs all the offset help it can get in terms of trying to reproduce a dynamism technically even remotely comparable to the real thing. I say technically, because the smoothness, and how much unwanted grain can be felt, is an extremely valid factor for realism - but more in an aesthetic sense. Low drag there potentially being a disadvantage.
So, any wheel with a puny motor needs all the offset help it can get in terms of trying to reproduce a dynamism technically even remotely comparable to the real thing. I say technically, because the smoothness, and how much unwanted grain can be felt, is an extremely valid factor for realism - but more in an aesthetic sense. Low drag there potentially being a disadvantage.
- 404
- Indianapolis, I
That's all well and good except I want that feeling after I turn the wheel on and send some ffb signals to it, not before the damn thing is even in use. The ffb motor has to over come all that internal drag before you start feeling anything the developer has programmed. That's all lost ffb that the end user is losing. According to that logic than this wheel is more realistic feeling than a Bodnar wheel and the like. After all the drag ,according to you, on the T150 is much closer to real life than those wheels are, with there free spinning nonsense.
"Free spinning nonsense" -- in my real car, there is NO "free spinning" when it comes to the steering wheel, even though it has power steering. Same thing applied to the Spec Racer Ford I've done track time in, which had no power steering.
So maybe wheels like the Bodnar wheel excel when it comes to applying realistic forces while still coming up short on properly simulating how much actual drag there really is in a typical steering rack (especially when you factor in the additional drag of sticky low-profile performance tires, which add even more drag).
But, hey -- go spin your wheel like crazy tomorrow on your way to work and see just how much "free spinning" action you get, and THEN you can come back here and talk with me about realism.
LeGeNd-1
Premium
- 7,264
- Australia
- GTP_LeGeNd-1
I have not driven a race car, but compared to my daily driver G25 still has more resistance even at lowest FFB setting in GT6. So any added drag =/= realism for me.
As for free spinning, I've seen numerous cockpit drift videos where the driver lets go of the wheel and it spins really quickly before the driver catches it. I'm not a good drifter by any means, but I never had my G25 spin that fast when I let go in an oversteer situation. Again, more drag =/= realism in this case.
As for free spinning, I've seen numerous cockpit drift videos where the driver lets go of the wheel and it spins really quickly before the driver catches it. I'm not a good drifter by any means, but I never had my G25 spin that fast when I let go in an oversteer situation. Again, more drag =/= realism in this case.
- 3,943
- Netherlands
- skazz-race
- skazzracer
The second example is motor power not drag. As long as the motor is able to spin the wheel through the inherent resistance fast enough, resistance is irrelevant for simulating self-aligning torque.
To be even more graphical: the T500 clearly has more internal resistance than the G25 but it has a much bigger motor and can spin the wheel twice as fast (240 degrees in 0.3s versus 120 for a G25). So the motor power allows it to much better simulate situations where self aligning torque would rotate the wheel quickly, but the G25 simply doesn't have the FFB motor power to do likewise despite lower turning resistance.
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- 393
- Bulgaria
- drandiiski
Comparing a sim wheel with one in a (any) real car is pretty pointless IMO. Of course you are going to have some resistance in it even if the (real) car is on a stand and the wheels are not dragging on the ground. But that has nothing to do with a sim wheel in off state. The less resistance it has the better, so the motor can do the work of making it heaver, lighter and all the forces in between.
- 2,801
- fatkrakr
You seem to be missing the key fact here. How is the internal drag the T150 has simulating anything about a real car? It isn't, it is just the mechanical drag of the wheel. If you want to kid yourself into believing its simulating something a real wheel does that's your right I guess, but don't expect others to buy that crap. The drag the ffb motors have to over come is taking away from what the user would normally feel through the wheel."Free spinning nonsense" -- in my real car, there is NO "free spinning" when it comes to the steering wheel, even though it has power steering. Same thing applied to the Spec Racer Ford I've done track time in, which had no power steering.
So maybe wheels like the Bodnar wheel excel when it comes to applying realistic forces while still coming up short on properly simulating how much actual drag there really is in a typical steering rack (especially when you factor in the additional drag of sticky low-profile performance tires, which add even more drag).
But, hey -- go spin your wheel like crazy tomorrow on your way to work and see just how much "free spinning" action you get, and THEN you can come back here and talk with me about realism.
- 477
- Honolulu, HI
- GTP_WifeBeeter
Received the T150 today and just got done messing around in Project Cars. I'm coming from a DFGT and the wheel/pedals feel pretty good. I'd like the rim to be a little thicker, but it's no big deal.
BTW, it's on sale for now here...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...kCFUVcfgodx5UP8w&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&is=REG&A=details
BTW, it's on sale for now here...
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...kCFUVcfgodx5UP8w&Q=&ap=y&m=Y&is=REG&A=details
- 24
- Lynchburg VA
- XterminEight
- XterminEight
If you want the rim to be a bit thicker, try this.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Leather...ash=item3f506b62a5:g:uY4AAOSwu4BVqLOR&vxp=mtr
You will need to cut it, but I think mine turned out ok. I'm going to re-do it at some point, but as of right now its good enough for me.
http://i.imgur.com/yjs9CFN.jpg
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DIY-Leather...ash=item3f506b62a5:g:uY4AAOSwu4BVqLOR&vxp=mtr
You will need to cut it, but I think mine turned out ok. I'm going to re-do it at some point, but as of right now its good enough for me.
http://i.imgur.com/yjs9CFN.jpg
I've been craving this wheel since my Logitech GT I used with GT6 won't work on my PS4. My question is, should I buy this wheel since it's the cheapest option with force feedback on the PS4,PS3, and also PC, or should I wait for the time GT Sport launches because I have a gut feeling they are going to release a new wheel around that time frame.
- 830
- Australia
- Soulfresh-ACV
I would definitely hold off for now if you don't need it immediately or unless there's some serious bargain available. If new wheels come out later this year when GT Sport comes out, the current wheels will be cheaper either way. And also if you're happy to skip Dirt Rally and Assetto Corsa coming to consoles in April
Based on online reviews, seems like T150 lacks a bit of fidelity. Understand budget constraints but I would rather spend on something mid-level to get the best possible experience as an investment.
Regardless anything but Logitech's simply because their pricing/technology is ridiculous.
- 508
- United States
The T150 is the newest wheel on the market from Thrustmaster, So I don't foresee anything new for the PS4, but they should be making something in the $199.99 range for the XBONE for FM6 players. Walmart will match any Amazon.com order, I waited until the T300RS dropped on Amazon to $338.99 the I called Walmart and got for that price with a 4 Year extended warranty for an additional $50.00, So Now I'm set for Assetto Corsa and GT Sport. and P-CARS and F1, I may get the Servo for the XBONE, I will determine when the Porsche DLC is available in April, Right now I have the Thrustmaster Ferrari 458 Spider Racing wheel, No FFB but I like it, still getting use to FFB in PCARS, FFB tuning is pretty rough lol.
- 131
- United Kingdom
- MC-170
Guys, is the G29 better than the T150? There is a sale on for both wheels here in the UK currently so I need to act fast. I don't mind spending a little more as long as the wheel remains reliable and is roughly accurate in terms of driving realism ( of course I know that no wheel will be totally accurate). The T150 looks a little cheapo to me, am I right? Also the G29 has three pedals and the shifter can be bought in the future further improving it.
Which is the better wheel ?? Please help!
Thanks a lot gents
MC
Which is the better wheel ?? Please help!
Thanks a lot gents
MC
- 7,834
- Leiria
- jpfctf
- jpfctf
Define "a little more".
- 131
- United Kingdom
- MC-170
50 pounds euros more I don't mind spending.
- 4,905
- Bulgaria
G29
- 7,834
- Leiria
- jpfctf
- jpfctf
I don't intend on ever buying a Logitech product again, but for a 50EUR difference between those two, I'd be scratching my head...
How about the T300RS? What's the price, in relation to the other two?
- 508
- United States
Thrustmaster T150
The Logitech G29 is A more precision wheel, but I would always go with A Thrustmaster, because of how Logitech treated their customers not making the G27 compatible with the PS4, So even though the Logitech G29 is A more precision wheel, it is NOT a precision company. and plus the difference in precision isn't noticeable, and they both have fixed non-interchangeable steering wheels, so why spend the extra money with a creep squad Company like Logitech. Good Luck.
- 1,234
- Northern Ca.
- Gunstar
- Gunstar Hero
How was Logitech supposed to make a wheel they released in 2010 for the PC compatible with a console released in 2013? Oh yeah, release a new version, the G29. Was it more expensive? Sure. Did you get less for that money? Yep. But that's what you get when you need to make a new version of something. A lof of Fanatec owners got left out in the cold too. But if you REALLY want to blame someone for the G27/DFGT/Fanatec wheels not working on PS4, blame SONY for designing the PS4 to not just generically support USB wheels like PS3 did.
- 1,281
- CENLA
- SoCaLLbeer
They actually did allow for drivers to be created in the software so if Logitech wanted the G27 and the DFGT to work on the PS4 games, all they had to do was provide a driver like Fanatec and Thrustmaster did for their older wheels on project cars. - This is why we can use the ps3/pc T500 or the ps3/pc Porsche GT3 or even the Xbox 360 Forza branded CSR Fanatec on the ps4 with project cars. - Sony gave them the option. Logitech chose not to.
- 2,232
- Lincolnshire
- PleaseD1e
The G29 is the better wheel.
I also don't like Logitech much either, but that shouldn't really prevent you from buying the wheel; The G29 is going to be good and will hopefully prove to be as reliable as the G25/7 was and if you can grab it cheap you'll have one of the best 'bang for buck' wheels.
From my own personal experience; don't wait to buy a wheel, buy it asap, enjoy it, thrash it play many racing games with it, because compatibility with the next-gen console might not happen, so get your moneys worth from it right now. 👍
Currently £159.99 at PCWorld/Currys. The shifter is £49.99 but I wouldn't buy it just yet, the price went up recently just prior to the wheel price getting reduced further, so if you wait a while it may drop back down to its original price £25.
_____
We could go into the whole Logitech debate on here, but this thread really isn't the place for it. We all have (and are entitled to) our own opinions and the argument had been debated before. At the end of the day, some Logitech owners were left feeling short changed and cheated. It's their entitlement and they may blame who they wish, at the end of the day I don't think anything is going to change the situation......which in my opinion is a shame.
- 1,234
- Northern Ca.
- Gunstar
- Gunstar Hero
I've explained why that is crap too many times. There are too many people in the world who don't seem to get why companies make things. Anyway, don't know why I bothered to respond, learned my lesson, out.
- 2,810
- Tasmania, AU
- stigsdaddy
Release drivers for them like their competitors did for their old wheels.
There's next to nothing "new" about the G29, it's just a G27 with a parts bin rim and a hall effect sensor to scam people into forking out more cash for essentially the same wheel they already have, and I bet they do the same thing again with the next console gen lol.
No they didn't, because Fanatec released drivers for all of their old wheels any newer than PS2 era.
Fanatec wheels do work on the PS4.
The PS3 didn't support any and all racing wheels, but anyway, how is it Sony's fault that Logitech refused to make PS4 drivers for their wheels? A Fanatec wheel from 2009 is supported on PS4, but a Logitech wheel from 2010 isn't, and that's Sony's fault?
Bottom line is Logitech didn't want to spend money making a wheel with newer tech in it than their old wheels, so instead, they've thrown together a G27.5, and sold that instead, and by refusing to add G25 or 27 support to PS4, they've guaranteed owners of those wheels will need to buy a new wheel, which they hope will be the G29. Why would someone buy a G29 when they have a perfectly good G27 if it worked on PS4? They're practically identical.
No it's not crap, and I think everyone understand exactly why Logitech went down this particular route. The difference between them and their competitors is this:
Logitech rehashing the same old wheel design yet again, but refusing to support their older wheels on current gen, to try and boost sales of their new wheel.
Fanatec support all of their last gen hardware on this gen, because their newer gear is significantly better, so supporting their old gear isn't going to stop people buying the new stuff.
Thrustmaster also support their last gen gear, because they are trying to make wheels at multiple budget levels. Offering the T150 as their low end wheel, while supporting their old low end T100 PS3 wheel, because it's not going to take sales from the T150 due to not being as good. Offering the T300 alongside the T500 PS3 wheel, because they've made them different enough in specs and price to actually divide opinion on which one is the more worthwhile purchase.
