Thursday Fun Night (Re-named)

  • Thread starter dranddad
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Great night of fun again and sorry for bailing a bit early, damn headache got the better of me :ouch:. Great to be able to race with @roamer2629 and @geeTeye (thanks for hosting Larry) without too many issues although it was fun hearing Phillip saying how Javier's car was just wandering around Myabi aimleslessly cutting grass even though for the rest of us he was in the lead :lol::lol::lol:
 
Argon
Great night of fun again and sorry for bailing a bit early, damn headache got the better of me :ouch:. Great to be able to race with @roamer2629 and @geeTeye (thanks for hosting Larry) without too many issues although it was fun hearing Phillip saying how Javier's car was just wandering around Myabi aimleslessly cutting grass even though for the rest of us he was in the lead :lol::lol::lol:
Click to expand...

Did someone mention bugs, you know it's amazing the millions that get from sales of the game and paid subscriptions. I know the internet plays a big part in this but it would still be nice if they could iron-out some of these issues.

Thanks very much Larry great nights entertainment, don't know if I'll get chance to sort pictures and a small video before I'm away on a short break.

Mike our last race in the final stages, lap 10/11/12 at Myabi was a good indicator that you can have fun in streetcars. I would like to see a race in Gr4/Gr3/Gr2 that can battle that close without touching. Great driving :bowdown: Mike.

Joe thanks for the fun at the end of the night with your Nissan GT-R '17 combo at Redbull ring :scared: :lol::lol:
 
@dranddad thanks Phillip and I agree, I had a fantastic time with you and Javier in the little Honda with some awesome wheel to wheel battles. I liked the Gr4 event too but then I'm a bit biased as I really like Catalunya.

The issues we suffer may get resolved when Sony release the next big update for the PS4 as they have promised improvements to network handling. I do feel its not entirely a PD issue but let's hope it gets better :cheers:
 
geeTeye
I think if Sony could add GTS servers in both Africa and South America it would solve a lot of the 🤬 issues.
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Sorry to rain on your parade here, but no. It would not!
You can't expect a racing game to have super close races, over a distance around the whole globe! demanding an update rate of 0.02 seconds, while the signal from South Africa has to travel to the US, then to South America, all in 0.02 seconds just does not work and is not covered by the technology!
The Player position are "calculated" already, based on where you MIGHT be next. Thats why, when there is lag, cars start to wobble around or go straight off corners, and coming back 20m later. That happens when the "expected position" is not confirmed but actual Data-Packages.

We have to face this problem again, because the root cause is still valid -> Distance

I peronally was really happy that it worked yesterday the way it did. With Anthony and Javier in the same lobby! There was great, close racing.
Yes, we all want more of that kind of racing. I do as well (#metoo ?!). We won't get it everytime. And in the forseeable future i don't see it getting better as the market develops more and more to a "Paid-Services" bussines model (ask the americans here, there are ISP's that just throttle your services by what service you use, and then "offer" you are price model where you can get your favorite services "accelerated" (they don't mention that the service was throttled beforehand).


Sorry if this is more information than all of you need, but i am at my workplace right now, and have THE EXACT SAME ISSUE here!
(Failing Backups from an US Location, due to timeouts) and it pisses me off more then i'd like to admit!

This is not a rant (even if it sounds like it)

Cheers guys!
 
@NaketWookie sorry mate but I don't agree. If they had local severs then the latency between the intetnal network nodes would be greatly reduced and therefore the discrepancy between projected and confirmed positions should happen less as there would be fewer dropped packets on the signal and significantly less thrashing between the nodes.
 
Great fun as always last night! I am sorry that I had to bail early as well...have to keep the wife happy as my seat time is at an all time high. I am very bummed to miss Joe's "combo"...:(

I will host every week if that keeps Javier & Antony racing together...👍

:cheers:
 
Bass Addict
Great fun as always last night! I am sorry that I had to bail early as well...have to keep the wife happy as my seat time is at an all time high. I am very bummed to miss Joe's "combo"...:(

I will host every week if that keeps Javier & Antony racing together...👍

:cheers:
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It’s fun to let very serious and fast racers run into each other. They quickly be come little kids again.
 
Argon
@NaketWookie sorry mate but I don't agree. If they had local severs then the latency between the intetnal network nodes would be greatly reduced and therefore the discrepancy between projected and confirmed positions should happen less as there would be fewer dropped packets on the signal and significantly less thrashing between the nodes.
Click to expand...

Please don't be sorry if you disagree, there is no need to be sorry.

You are right for SOME participants here, but look at our lobby Problem: If Javier opens a lobby, Anthony can't play and vice versa. (1 South Africa, 1 Argentia) By adding more local nodes you just move the Problem between the participants, you don't fix the Problem! When the Lobby is opened by a european player, all the europeans have no issues (mostly) with either of them. When Javier opens the lobby, more people have problems.
Same for Anthony opening the lobby.

You could even have a dedicated virtualized WWAN spanning all around the globe, with Highspeed Connection on dedicatetd connections, that will still not fix the issue, that Javier and Anthony have a distance of more then 7.000 km (direct line from ARG to RSA)
The shortest possible Connection from Javier to Anthony is the "South Atlantic Express"-Cable which came 2013 and connects Brazil and Capetown.
The fact that both have to receive their Data from an American "regional"-Server reduces Javiers Response times, but it increases them for Anthony.

The Problem between Anthony and Javier WILL remain, no matter how many nodes you set up. Someone still has a very long distance.
you might reduce the distance to the next "regional Server", but the lobby is hostet on the closest server for the Person creating the lobby.
 
Bass Addict
Great fun as always last night! I am sorry that I had to bail early as well...have to keep the wife happy as my seat time is at an all time high. I am very bummed to miss Joe's "combo"...:(

I will host every week if that keeps Javier & Antony racing together...👍

:cheers:
Click to expand...
Thanks Larry that helpS a lot, some weeks I struggle with my ailments I host but sometime I suffer for a couple of days after.

Your location does seem to be better placed for Antony and Javier than here in the UK.

Great fun Joe, Antony had a good idea should work well with short and long races.
 
Sorry I had to bail early as well :indiff:
I have issues with both of my rotator cuff's and they've been pissed off because of all the overhead work I've been doing on the house. Driving becomes a painful task when they get this way :irked:

Love the chicane racing. Just can't retrain my brain for the one at Tsukba. Would always remember after I was passed the turn in point :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Thanks to everyone for making this such an enjoyable weekly gathering. :D

:cheers:
 
NaketWookie
Please don't be sorry if you disagree, there is no need to be sorry.

You are right for SOME participants here, but look at our lobby Problem: If Javier opens a lobby, Anthony can't play and vice versa. (1 South Africa, 1 Argentia) By adding more local nodes you just move the Problem between the participants, you don't fix the Problem! When the Lobby is opened by a european player, all the europeans have no issues (mostly) with either of them. When Javier opens the lobby, more people have problems.
Same for Anthony opening the lobby.

You could even have a dedicated virtualized WWAN spanning all around the globe, with Highspeed Connection on dedicatetd connections, that will still not fix the issue, that Javier and Anthony have a distance of more then 7.000 km (direct line from ARG to RSA)
The shortest possible Connection from Javier to Anthony is the "South Atlantic Express"-Cable which came 2013 and connects Brazil and Capetown.
The fact that both have to receive their Data from an American "regional"-Server reduces Javiers Response times, but it increases them for Anthony.

The Problem between Anthony and Javier WILL remain, no matter how many nodes you set up. Someone still has a very long distance.
you might reduce the distance to the next "regional Server", but the lobby is hostet on the closest server for the Person creating the lobby.
Click to expand...
I suddenly feel like the dumbest guy in the room lol
 
@NaketWookie The one thing that we believe is fairly certain is that it's the upload that's the main culprit for network issues not download. Your right when you say that we can't physically make the distance between S.Africa and S.America any less but the main network pipe between them or it's length isn't the issue. It's the connection between the client and the nearest SEN network server (node) where both of them have significant ping coupled with relatively poor upload and it's both of those factors together that cause the issue. If you can improve one or the other you will see an improvement hence If the SEN server is located closer to each of them then the ping rates at least should drop and the number of degraded packets (timed out) should also significantly drop and bring the error rates back to a tolerance that is more manageable for interactive network conversations.
 
Distance might be a factor but I have to say I never had an issue during the GT6 era, and that includes players as far as Australia and New Zealand. Problems started when GT became separated by areas.
Anyway, great close racing all around yesterday, that setup for the Honda was just spot on Larry, well done dude 👍
 
@Argon you are absolutely right there, but part of the issue is, that the lobby is hosted by the server closest to the host. That wont change with more regional servers. Javier = Host -> Athony has to upload to the US/SA servers, Anthony = Host -> Javier has to upload to EMEA, the issue remains for at least one of them.

All that, given the Datatraffic in GT Sport is the same as in 1.39 since that was the last time i took a deeper look in how GT handles Multiplayer Data.
Also, correcct me if i am wrong here, but didn't they add more local servers since the regional split?! so that daily race lobbies for US/SA and Asia/OC have their own races?
 
Michelin is the new partner in the game which I think is really good news. They have said that they want to work with PD to bring a "more realistic" model to the game to enhance the experience and make more strategies available in our races which is fantastic news.

Hope they revise the models soon because the model right now is not good between the various compounds
 
roamer2629
Distance might be a factor but I have to say I never had an issue during the GT6 era, and that includes players as far as Australia and New Zealand. Problems started when GT became separated by areas.
Anyway, great close racing all around yesterday, that setup for the Honda was just spot on Larry, well done dude 👍
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Honda S800 was modeled on the S800 racecar
 
Spent the evening watch my local dirt track. They only make left turns but man are they fast.
54FFFD8A-B0F8-487F-A71F-CA06DE491A72.jpeg
00FB4333-B26B-433C-9D42-C504F6BEBA1D.jpeg
 
Regarding network issues, note that I suspect there are only any servers involved up to joining a lobby, after that it’s all direct peer-to-peer communication between the consoles. Case in point, one time I was unable to join the TFN lobby (or any other one, for that matter) for about 30 minutes, because at least the European servers were down. But those who had joined the lobby earlier were racing normally that whole time. (I don’t remember who was hosting the lobby, but I’d guess it was Philipp)

Also, with distances across the globe, the laws of physics become a factor. Even at the speed of light, it takes 10ms to travel 3000km. The average speed of network packets is significantly lower for various reasons. E.g. https://royal.pingdom.com/theoretical-vs-real-world-speed-limit-of-ping/ argues it’s about 50%. So it takes at least on the order of 50ms for a network packet to travel between Europe and the Americas even under optimal conditions. (That’s a ping time on the order of 100ms... e.g. council.nyc.gov pings at just over 100ms from here, which seems to confirm this)
 
MrCooper
Regarding network issues, note that I suspect there are only any servers involved up to joining a lobby, after that it’s all direct peer-to-peer communication between the consoles. Case in point, one time I was unable to join the TFN lobby (or any other one, for that matter) for about 30 minutes, because at least the European servers were down. But those who had joined the lobby earlier were racing normally that whole time. (I don’t remember who was hosting the lobby, but I’d guess it was Philipp)

Also, with distances across the globe, the laws of physics become a factor. Even at the speed of light, it takes 10ms to travel 3000km. The average speed of network packets is significantly lower for various reasons. E.g. https://royal.pingdom.com/theoretical-vs-real-world-speed-limit-of-ping/ argues it’s about 50%. So it takes at least on the order of 50ms for a network packet to travel between Europe and the Americas even under optimal conditions. (That’s a ping time on the order of 100ms... e.g. council.nyc.gov pings at just over 100ms from here, which seems to confirm this)
Click to expand...

You're correct Michel, connecting to a lobby starts out as star then moves to peer-to-peer after you've establish your position in the lobby but the traffic even under p2p still traverses through the PSN network and the point I was trying to highlight was that a reduction in the times needed from client to PSN node can't do anything but improve things. Would it fix it entirely? I don't know but after 40 years of dealing with this stuff I know that sometimes in order to fix an issue you have to chip away at it and try to remove/replace those things that prevent you from achieving you goal. Adding additional entry points to the network isn't that hard and can only have a positive impact for the users. (Sony might see it as not positive as it will obviously add costs but.......)
 
Correct me if I am wrong Chris, but new "items / features" shown during a World Tour event seem to be at least one or two updates behind...like rain at the RBR was at the last World Tour event ( I think). Going back, penalty zones were first displayed during one of these events and there was a delay before they made it to Sport Mode. :)

I was hoping for SPA but I wasn't expecting SPA in the update tomorrow...:(

:cheers:
 
oh i'm not negative about it... it's more of an rolling eyes situation here. :)

@Bass Addict i think there was more time between the event and the update going live last time, right?! i remeber on e update being close to the event and the new stuff was delayed to the next one as well...

I am just smiling that everyone gets hyped and they let it seem like the track is coming, and i am sure at that point they already knew it won't be in that update. They don't have to do it that way, but they did.

I mean first you think
"Wow, Rain, 5 Cars AND SPA!?!? Holy ****, best update ever"
and then the downgrades come flyin' in...
"Yeah, Rain only on Red Bull Ring"
..."Ok, at least there finally IS rain"
"Yeah, and Spa will be coming later"
..."Ok, at least it finally IS coming"

At this point the Voice of Tom Brooks echos in my head "...avoid things, that make you look bad!"

Doesn't matter though, still hyped!
 

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