Time for Change? (UK General Election)

[mirial]

Scaff, I think we should just change the subject.

Your comments about ex-pats living in Spain would never be a problem for me as I would, first and foremost, go to Spain / France / Germany with a resonable level of fluency in that country's language. I would also wish to blend in with their culture.

 

[Scaff]

Scaff, I think we should just change the subject.

Not a problem for me, you opened this area of discussion, I simply responded. Given my own circumstances its an area (you can no doubt tell) I am passionate regarding.

Your comments about ex-pats living in Spain would never be a problem for me as I would, first and foremost, go to Spain / France / Germany with a resonable level of fluency in that country's language. I would also wish to blend in with their culture.

A big difference exists between wish and being forced to integrate. Those who wish to stop or limit multi-culturalism would not find a wish to blend it even close to good enough.

Using the Spanish analogy, if they can't basically become 100% Spanish in terms of language and culture, then ship 'em back home.

I know looked at this way it sound totally ridiculous, but to want to stop or limit multi-culturalism is to condone just such a view.


Scaff

 

[Jondot]

The worm has turned, or is it just a "flash in the pan"?

The Liberals surge in the polls, apparently the biggest surge in popularity for 104 years, so a hung parliament looks more likely than ever. Who would'be thought it, I certainly didn't that's for sure.

Although I disliked any idea of a US stlye presidential TV debate that was heavily bogged down with specific rules of engagement, but at least it has gven us Britons something to chew on and the result of which has thrown a spanner into the works that has now placed the two main parties on the back foot. I'm not sure who this will hurt the most in the election, the Tories, Labour or the electorate but it's fun watching regardless.

Something occured to us in Lectures today. Many of us from South Wales have said that if our parents knew we voted Tory they'd probably disown us, to which a couple of English people said if they voted Labour their parents would dissown them!

So our generation, if we seek to keep home-cooking and free homes in the holidays, must vote Lib Dem!


Everyone is putting the cart before the horse at the moment.

There's still 2 debates left, and now Cameron and Brown are going to focus much more bully-boy tactics on Clegg.

There does seem (from where I'm sitting) to be a Clegg surge from the student population. I've seen countless Facebook friends becoming 'fans of' Nick Clegg pages over the last week. And then, of course, there's this...

The first link is merely taken from the Telegraph, a prominent Tory paper that has even made it clear that everything was properly submitted to the correct authorities and there was just reason for the money.

It's simply pathetic journalism hiding under a provacative headline. Something you'd expect from the Mail. And I read the Telegraph every day when I'm home from Uni.

Speaking of which:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...dia-pals--of-concern-about-clegg-1953740.html

 

[ExigeEvan]

C'mon Jon, you must be tempted?

 

[Jondot]

Of course I am Though more for tactical reasons than anything.

Feelings accurately described by photo of myself, yesterday:

 

[ExigeEvan]

Yeah the tactical vote has occured to me aswell. Originally I was thinking of voting Plaid Cymru as there was the posibility of them forming a coalition with the Tory/Labour winners in a hung parliment, but of course it's all changed now.

 

[Sureboss]

Scaff - I stated earlier that I wasn't racist - why would I put a good word in for someone from another land who is no more than a work colleague? It was fully conscious.

And I do not support the BNP for the reasons you have stated. Multi-culturalism is a good thing for everybody, but not to the degree the Goverment has allowed.

I know because they let every one in, don't they? Also, damn those Poles for coming over here and doing work that our own good old Brits are too "good for".

Britain has been built on multi-culturalism and it will continue to do so because it works. Maybe try reading something other than the Daily Fail for your immigration facts.

 

[mirial]

Sureboss, read the previous comments I made as to why our country has gone the way it has. No one has acknowledged that yet - it is worth grasping this.

What's more, what's the intended population meant to be by 2050? 70 million, 100 million, 200 million? The country without excavating more out of the British countryside is buckling at the seams.

 

[Sureboss]

So it must only be me that has vast swathes of pure wasteland near me? Or large amounts of derelict houses, I know there are empty streets in places like Liverpool, to say we are "buckling at the seams" is simply a BNP-esque statement attempting at trying to hide the blatant racism within.

70 million would be a rough estimate, although our birth rate is shockingly low at the moment, so even another 10 million in 40 years might be a challenge.

 

[Neal]

As Sureboos has mentioned Liverpool I'll pipe up and confirm he is right. There are streets of empty houses in parts of Liverpool and although they may not all be inhabitable in their current condition they can either be refurbished or demolished and new housing estates built in their place which is what has been happening in recent years. New housing estates are also being built on many brown field sites in Merseyside which doesn't effect the British countryside.

This is the case across the country and if we really were in a housing crisis then building companies wouldn't be struggling like they are at the moment.

 

[Scaff]

Sureboss, read the previous comments I made as to why our country has gone the way it has. No one has acknowledged that yet - it is worth grasping this.

I have acknowledged your previous comments and quite clearly stated why I believe them to be little more than apologist statements for BNP nonsense.

They are not worth grasping at all, particularly given that most are based on flawed data and specifically designed to attempt to inflame race/religious/gender or class intolerance.

What's more, what's the intended population meant to be by 2050? 70 million, 100 million, 200 million? The country without excavating more out of the British countryside is buckling at the seams.

Have to echo what both of these guys have said.

Here in Swindon they have/are using a lot of brown field sites to build houses of all types across all price ranges.

They have also taken to using old office buildings and converting them into (very nice) starter apartments, right near the town center. Its an excellent idea as they offer them on a shared ownership basis, with the option to buy the rest as you go on, which gives new families and the young a chance to get into a good property, that will gain in value. An idea step onto the property ladder.

In my travels (my work takes me all over the country) I've seen schemes like this everywhere.

Things are still not idea, but the scare tactics that the like of the BNP use simply do not stand up to even the most basic scrutiny.

By the way approx 77 million is the estimate for 2050......

http://www.optimumpopulation.org/opt.more.ukpoptable.html



Scaff

 

[Seismica]

There does seem (from where I'm sitting) to be a Clegg surge from the student population. I've seen countless Facebook friends becoming 'fans of' Nick Clegg pages over the last week. And then, of course, there's this...


http://i39.tinypic.com/2i71w0y.png[/ IMG][/QUOTE]

Yup :) Hopefully the Lib Dems will gain enough seats in this election. I'm confident they will get more votes than Labour and possibly more votes than the tories. But will it mean more seats? Only time will tell. It is possible to get 49% of the votes and no seats whatsoever. The system needs changing.

Take a look at this:

[media=youtube]u0QsSoV0SRo[/media]

I'm voting Lib Dem. Recently my brother took part in a debate at college, the Tory candidate for a consistuency very near ours was there. Someone asked if they would be prepared to front the £1.5m cost to fire up the furnace at Corus if they found a buyer, and he said no (£1.5m is nothing if it puts so many people back into work like that, the benefits far outweigh the cost). One of the students replied asked why not, and haven't the people living in the North East suffered enough from the last Tory government. His reply was no. So there you have it, the conservatives want people living on Teesside to suffer. Somebody also asked if it was fair that your vote only really counted if you lived in an area with a marginal seat, he replied that it [I]is fair[/I]. If the Lib Dems get in, they're the only party who will reform the electoral system. Labour have this in their manifesto too I think, but I doubt they will follow it through, it's just voter baiting.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/s...vels-of-sperm-in-men-are-falling-1954149.html

You indigenous Brits are scheduled for extinction within a few short decades, and it's your mothers that are to blame - that's the best guess of your baffled scientists.

So heed the advice of Scaff in all matters of GT4 tuning and marriage. Eschew your native lassies and fling open your doors to healthy women from foreign lands if you want any kind of future at all.

But don't feel alone. Most of Europe and North America is in the same bucket.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini

 

[DK]

70 million would be a rough estimate, although our birth rate is shockingly low at the moment, so even another 10 million in 40 years might be a challenge.

Sorry for my blatant urine-taking, but a low birth rate in Britain? I've been watching the Jeremy Kyle show too much, most of the people on that show probably have 5 kids and counting.

 

[Touring Mars]

I was supposed to be away with work all of next week, and have even arranged a postal vote as a result. Fortunately, my plans have been shifted forward one day, and I will now be back on Thursday rather than Friday, and hence will be able to watch the election results live - it should be a very interesting night, and Channel 4 (here in the UK) are offering a night of 'alternative' coverage, which should lighten up proceedings somewhat.

I reckon a hung parliament is nigh on unavoidable... Cameron's performance on the campaign trail (and not just on the televised debates) has thus far been woeful, IMO. Brown, as uncharismatic as ever, is atleast sticking to discussing policy (a wise plan, considering his complete lack of personality), whereas Cameron seems hell-bent on relying on slogans, soundbites and assorted meaningless rhetoric - and has now resorted to slagging off the Lib Dems in a pathetic attempt to avoid the prospect of a hung parliament. Nick Clegg is not doing enough to promote the Lib Dems core values and policies, in my view, and is instead focussing on the wrong things, while all the while seeking to capitalise on the fact that people have had enough of Labour, but don't want a return to the bad old days of a Tory government, which seems to be working!

Thursday's election coverage should be good, and I'm just glad I'm going to get a chance to watch it!

 

[TheCracker]

Sorry for my blatant urine-taking, but a low birth rate in Britain? I've been watching the Jeremy Kyle show too much, most of the people on that show probably have 5 kids and counting.

The 'people' featured on the Jeremy Kyle show only represent a tiny section of British society. Thankfully. Unfortunately for a majority of the population, as couples, they both need to work to keep a reasonable standard of living with the cost of living sky-rocketing in resent years. And in a lot of cases this means either having a small family, minimizing the amount of time spent not working, or not having a family at all.

 

[Dotini]

Which of your pols isn't whistling past the graveyard of financial death?

It seems your debt and deficit picture is such that soon you'll join the bailout queue. Layoff of government employees, cutback of services, draconian taxation, "sovereign" default, and currency collapse are all staring you in the face. The candidates aren't addressing the issue, and we all know there aren't enough Germans to make well every profligate European state.

Respectfully,
Dotini

 

[Neal]

Which of your pols isn't whistling past the graveyard of financial death?

It seems your debt and deficit picture is such that soon you'll join the bailout queue. Layoff of government employees, cutback of services, draconian taxation, "sovereign" default, and currency collapse are all staring you in the face. The candidates aren't addressing the issue, and we all know there aren't enough Germans to make well every profligate European state.

Respectfully,
Dotini

Well that's brightened up my day no end, ever thought of getting a job with The Samaritans! If you need me I’ll be attaching a hose to my exhaust

I was supposed to be away with work all of next week, and have even arranged a postal vote as a result. Fortunately, my plans have been shifted forward one day, and I will now be back on Thursday rather than Friday, and hence will be able to watch the election results live - it should be a very interesting night, and Channel 4 (here in the UK) are offering a night of 'alternative' coverage, which should lighten up proceedings somewhat.

I reckon a hung parliament is nigh on unavoidable... Cameron's performance on the campaign trail (and not just on the televised debates) has thus far been woeful, IMO. Brown, as uncharismatic as ever, is atleast sticking to discussing policy (a wise plan, considering his complete lack of personality), whereas Cameron seems hell-bent on relying on slogans, soundbites and assorted meaningless rhetoric - and has now resorted to slagging off the Lib Dems in a pathetic attempt to avoid the prospect of a hung parliament. Nick Clegg is not doing enough to promote the Lib Dems core values and policies, in my view, and is instead focussing on the wrong things, while all the while seeking to capitalise on the fact that people have had enough of Labour, but don't want a return to the bad old days of a Tory government, which seems to be working!

Thursday's election coverage should be good, and I'm just glad I'm going to get a chance to watch it!

This sums it up quite well and I fear your prediction may be right. Brown hasn’t done himself any favours today by being caught on tape calling a voter a "bigoted woman"! I’ll be watching the coverage on Thursday but fortunately I’m flying to Skiathos for 2 weeks on Friday morning following the election so I don’t have to witness the aftermath if it doesn’t go the way I hope.

 

[Famine]

Brown hasn’t done himself any favours today by being caught on tape calling a voter a "bigoted woman"!

She was a bigot though. He hasn't done himself any favours by blaming everyone else, then wheedling out of it and apologising.

Man up. Say what you mean and stick to it.

 

[Touring Mars]

I disagree - mentioning the word "immigrants" and having concerns about immigration doesn't make you a bigot. It's a big issue, and although I think Brown handled her questions well at the time, he was out of order calling her a bigot afterwards - not to mention catastrophically stupid for leaving his mic on and then saying it. I don't know if it's possible for a corpse to commit career suicide, but this comes pretty close.

 

[Mark T]

This is why no one trusts politicians. No one knows what happens or what is said behind the scenes. When a politician does say something with conviction or expresses a point of view that upsets someone they immediately back down and start this rediculous parade of apologies.

 

[Neal]

I haven't heard the interview yet (no sound on work PC) so don't know exactly what she said but unless she was sounding like a BNP supporter then Brown is in a no win situation after saying that. I bet he’s dreading tomorrows TV debate even more now!

 

[Touring Mars]

This is why no one trusts politicians. No one knows what happens or what is said behind the scenes. When a politician does say something with conviction or expresses a point of view that upsets someone they immediately back down and start this rediculous parade of apologies.

I think what is more damaging is the fact that Brown was all smiles and handshakes after the actual meeting, but totally indignant about it in private - proving his complete insincerity. While he is entitled to his opinion, any politician (let alone the flippin' Prime Minister looking for re-election) ought to be able to deal with such opinions and people with a great deal more restraint and respect than this.

 

[Famine]

I disagree - mentioning the word "immigrants" and having concerns about immigration doesn't make you a bigot.

No. Saying "all these Eastern Europeans what are coming over - where are they flocking from?" in a discussion about benefits is at best uninformed though - it's a very rare immigrant that can claim benefits, and one from Eastern Europe would not be eligible, to say nothing of actual immigration numbers (and the fact she's 4 years too late - there's more emigration to Poland than from it now).


Starting a sentence with "And you can't say anything about these immigrants because..." is up there with "I'm not prejudiced, but..."

 

[Sureboss]

Yeah, because he's the only politician to have said what he really thinks of some of the people in this country. The problem is, he got caught, the others haven't. If people think (and I'm not pointing fingers at you, TM) that he's the only politician to have said bad things about voters/constituents, this is it.

Though in reality, it matters not a jot, Gordon Brown could find a cure for AIDs and he'd still not win. People want to change for many reasons, he can't do anything to change that, and I mean anything.

 

[Dotini]

. People want to change for many reasons, he can't do anything to change that, and I mean anything.

Fear of a hung Parliament and a Labour/Lib Dem deal not withstanding?

 

[Famine]

Also, UKIP fail:

 

[Sureboss]

Fear of a hung Parliament and a Labour/Lib Dem deal not withstanding?

Lib Dem will not win anything like enough seats, the polls may be saying they are above Labour in the polls, and not far off the Tories (though it is all quite close), but they won't win enough seats.

I see Cameron as our next PM, and with him and George Osborne in power, we're going to have some fun times.

 

[Touring Mars]

Also, UKIP fail:

Me me fluent English, me stay?

 

[Famine]

At least we know TVR&FerrariFan is safe...