Tire Flex Example (Visual)
- Thread starter KinLM
- 87 comments
- 8,662 views
I quote:
Years of collaboration with Polyphony Digital have resulted in the creation of in-depth sensations in the steering column. Combining the brushless motor's refined Force Feedback with this Depth Feedback creates a realistic 3D perception of the environment.
Adding suspension and vibration effects via the steering column gives drivers more information with which to analyze and experience a car's behavior and physics, and therefore anticipate and instantly react to track conditions.
Thrustmaster was able to add a second level of effects for Gran Turismo Sport. This racing Wheel combines 2 Force Feedback systems, based on the exclusive T-40VE motor with the new T-MCE cooling system.
Source: http://t-gt.thrustmaster.com
Here s an image of the transducer on the back that produces vibrations
Attachments
Last edited by a moderator:
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,744
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
That doesn't support any claims about it being close to or better than AC, nor that the effects may not be canned.
It adds additional effects to the experience, it doesn't support any claims of accuracy or comparison (and is actually from a link I've already posted - in my hideous bias).
Switching on the FFB effects for AC adds an additional level of effects, they are canned. Switching on my tactile rig adds a second level of effects, much of which is effectively canned. Switching from Raw on PC2 adds an additional layer of effects, some of which is canned.
Why given all of that is it so impossible to say that the T-GT effects may be canned?
It's confirmation bias, accept any view that supports your own and dismiss the ones that don't. Personally I treat them all with the same degree of skepticism, as I've seen drivers on both sides for pretty much every title.
- 1,875
- United States
Logitech of course had very similar marketing claims for the multitude of years across the GT games they were the official wheel!
Advertising and marketing claims are strictly for the purpose of separating a potential customer from their money.
There are plenty who believe every thing they read in the ads though!
Logitech’s latest racing wheel was meticulously designed by Logitech and Polyphony Digital, Inc., the developer of the Gran Turismo series. The companies worked together to add the unique real-time adjustment dial, a first for force feedback wheels, allowing people to fine tune the car’s balance by adjusting the brake bias, traction control and damper settings. Now Gran Turismo drivers can have precise control over the car’s setup to achieve maximum performance
Logitech’s newest force feedback wheel simulates understeer, oversteer, and traction loss with frightening accuracy. While the full-size gas and brake pedals deliver precise throttle and brake response, racers can use either the sequential stick shift or the wheel-mounted paddles to race through gears. The wheel also features a large 27.9 cm (11-inch) wheel with rubber-overmould rim, providing exceptional comfort and control
The Logitech Driving Force GT turns 900 degrees lock-to-lock allowing drivers to navigate hairpin turns with greater accuracy. And with anti-backlash gearing, there is no slack in the steering response, making any race a smooth, realistic experience.
Logitech of course had very similar marketing claims for the multitude of years across the GT games they were the official wheel!
Advertising and marketing claims are strictly for the purpose of separating a potential customer from their money.
There are plenty who believe every thing they read in the ads though!
Logitech’s latest racing wheel was meticulously designed by Logitech and Polyphony Digital, Inc., the developer of the Gran Turismo series. The companies worked together to add the unique real-time adjustment dial, a first for force feedback wheels, allowing people to fine tune the car’s balance by adjusting the brake bias, traction control and damper settings. Now Gran Turismo drivers can have precise control over the car’s setup to achieve maximum performance
Logitech’s newest force feedback wheel simulates understeer, oversteer, and traction loss with frightening accuracy. While the full-size gas and brake pedals deliver precise throttle and brake response, racers can use either the sequential stick shift or the wheel-mounted paddles to race through gears. The wheel also features a large 27.9 cm (11-inch) wheel with rubber-overmould rim, providing exceptional comfort and control
The Logitech Driving Force GT turns 900 degrees lock-to-lock allowing drivers to navigate hairpin turns with greater accuracy. And with anti-backlash gearing, there is no slack in the steering response, making any race a smooth, realistic experience.
The Fore GT was excellent on GT 5 and 6. G29 is very muted on GTS, and is worlds apart from how T GT offers for that game.
- 6,838
- Europe
- GTP_Slim
- PzR Slim
You see, once again, you have no answers. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what ffb is and how it works? You've just admitted that a T-GT is the same as a T300 with more vibration effects. Those vibrations effects are canned effects. They do not come from the ffb system and as a result the ffb delivered from GTS to a T-GT is exactly the same as the ffb delivered to a T300 or any wheel for that matter. So your claim that a T-GT suddenly makes the ffb in GTS feel like the ffb in AC is by your own admission completely false.
- 1,400
- Netherlands
@barkohba: I am sure you did not mean it all to bad. You felt attacked by Vfourmax1 but I think you completely missed his point and you were irritated by it and lost yourself a bit in your words. Calm down a little. He did not say anything strange and thus you feel falsely attacked.
He is right in saying that if your claim were true, that it would be very inappropriate of PD. But since these kind of statements surely would have been noticed earlier in this forum, the lack of them suggests that you probably are not right, at least not untill you give some further prove than just your opinion. That does not mean you are lying. So no reason to get angry here.
But I am sure you would understand we cannot just believe you on your words only right ?
He is right in saying that if your claim were true, that it would be very inappropriate of PD. But since these kind of statements surely would have been noticed earlier in this forum, the lack of them suggests that you probably are not right, at least not untill you give some further prove than just your opinion. That does not mean you are lying. So no reason to get angry here.
But I am sure you would understand we cannot just believe you on your words only right ?
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,744
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
Which is exactly what a tactile unit does, it takes the audio feed and turns it into a mixture of actual and canned effects based on how well that audio is based on the actions of the physics engine.
Now on a console, without the aid of something like simvibe it's impossible to say what the mix of actual and canned is for this (and even the actual isn't being driven via the physics engine directly).
Which oddly enough is what I said in regard to GTS, we don't know what its using to provide this information to the T-GT. Nor do we know how much of it is or isn't canned as a result.
When I say 'we' I'm referring to everyone but you, as you stated it was absurd to even suggest the effects could be canned. Unsurprisingly that resulted in you bring asked to support that claim, and the best we have as an answer so far is.....
....so maybe it's time to reconsider that the possiably they may be (in part) canned, exists.
It doesn't make it 'bad', I wouldn't use my rig without tactile, and I challenge anyone who used it to consider any different.
What it doesn't do (with GTS or Dirt or other older titles) is 'fix' the physics engine issues and provide physics based info which simply doesn't exist.
You've claimed otherwise, and it's a claim that needs to be supported if you want it to be accepted.
In the words of a very smart bloke, that which can be offered without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.
- 1,875
- United States
I use a G29, I personally like a fairly light feeling wheel as far as resistance goes so I have my settings dialed in as such.
Although you do get information from the FFB I really feel in GTS that you receive just about as much usable information from the audio cues of the game.
Just like pushing the grip levels I feel I get more information to how hard I am pushing by the tone or level of the "tire squeal". I think that with the physics engine of GTS in the FFB I really do not get a lot of warning until the grip is actually starting to let go.
Granted in most situations the FFB does give you enough warning that you can catch it but it does not give the type of feedback that you would get in the real world or any where close.
I am just a casual racer and what the game does provide is sufficient for me to enjoy the game fine but from what I have experienced GTS would not be a game that would prompt me to spend big dollars on a wheel set up that may only be marginally better.
- 16,529
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
This is the best tyre flex I've seen in GT Sport. Please let this be more than skin deep...
If you put up the live telemetry when driving in Project Cars 2, you can actually see which part of the tyre is being stressed IN REAL TIME. You take an extremely right had corner and the outside edge of the left tyres heat up whilst the inside and middle remain quite normal.
- 2,321
- Wales
- TSR_GTWelsh
I would of thought all FFB effects are canned to be honest, none of it is real
What you mean?Not in my experience in the motorbike racing scene though.
Pirelli Supercorsa SC0 (soft) compound is best for hot smooth tracks and has the most grip, but degrades really bad in anything but ideal conditions and will degrade even in ideal conditions faster than the others.
Pirelli Supercorsa SC1 (medium) compound is good for most scenarios and has good grip with good longevity in most conditions
Pirelli Supercorsa SC2 (hard) compound is good for cold weather and or rough surfaces, less grip and lasts longer than the others
[UPDATE] Here is the Supercorsa tyre chart from Pirelli I was looking for
click to zoom
Maybe it's different with cars though!
Just thought I'd chip in with something I have some actual experience of. Sharing the knowledge bro!That looks awesome to be fair. While I doubt it's quite that reactive in the physics model, and may not be implemented, it does look pretty cool.
Last edited:
- 13,909
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Er, weren't the Microsoft wheels for Xbox 360 doing this? I distinctly remember the Wireless Racing Wheel as well as the Fanatec CSR having additional vibration motors for extra effects. If I recall the general consensus was that it was a better and more realistic driving experience to just switch them off.
Are we really bragging about something that Microsoft discovered wasn't a great idea ten years ago?
I would of thought all FFB effects are canned to be honest, none of it is real
Canned effects are ones that aren't based on any physical phenomena. Generally, FFB should emulate what you would feel in a real car through the steering wheel. Therefore, only effects that put force into the steering column would be felt.
However, because when you're playing a game you don't have the standard "butt sensor", many games find it preferable to add in things like vibration and such to the steering wheel. If you drive over a rumble strip in a real car there's no real effect on the steering, but in games they'll often vibrate the steering so that you have at least some sort of indication. Similarly there are often changes to the effects of over and understeer from what would be purely realistic.
Think of sound effects in movies. They're not real, they're added to enhance the realism. The same idea is in play here, there are additional FFB effects that are added to "enhance" the FFB. However, if you're a serious driver they can actually be quite detrimental to your ability to drive well, as the tactile information you're receiving is not the same as what you've spent likely thousands of hours practising.
- 2,620
- Brazil
GT Sport is always amazing to look at.
It will stay as a cool visual and this is a deliberate decision from PD they know what the flexing does to the car but they only want to stay as a cool thing to look at in the replays.The new tire model will not be the holy grail of this game,it will make things better(based on comments from people who used it) but it won't be the answer to every complaint people have about this game.
Last edited:
- 219
- Sydney
- 2,620
- Brazil
Is that close to the Flux Capacitor?
- 1,632
- UK
- YT__TJCGAMING
