Tire Flex Example (Visual)

[barkohba]

Er, weren't the Microsoft wheels for Xbox 360 doing this? I distinctly remember the Wireless Racing Wheel as well as the Fanatec CSR having additional vibration motors for extra effects. If I recall the general consensus was that it was a better and more realistic driving experience to just switch them off.

Are we really bragging about something that Microsoft discovered wasn't a great idea ten years ago?



Canned effects are ones that aren't based on any physical phenomena. Generally, FFB should emulate what you would feel in a real car through the steering wheel. Therefore, only effects that put force into the steering column would be felt.

However, because when you're playing a game you don't have the standard "butt sensor", many games find it preferable to add in things like vibration and such to the steering wheel. If you drive over a rumble strip in a real car there's no real effect on the steering, but in games they'll often vibrate the steering so that you have at least some sort of indication. Similarly there are often changes to the effects of over and understeer from what would be purely realistic.

Think of sound effects in movies. They're not real, they're added to enhance the realism. The same idea is in play here, there are additional FFB effects that are added to "enhance" the FFB. However, if you're a serious driver they can actually be quite detrimental to your ability to drive well, as the tactile information you're receiving is not the same as what you've spent likely thousands of hours practising.

I'll let Inside Sim Racing clarify how the T-GT works and how good/bad it is:

 

[PzR Slim]

I'll let Inside Sim Racing clarify how the T-GT works and how good/bad it is:

I'm not sure anybody has said it's not a very good wheel, most review I have seen have positive things to say about it. However, that doesn't mean it can magically transform the ffb of GTS so that it is better than the ffb of AC which is what you have been suggesting.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

I'll let Inside Sim Racing clarify how the T-GT works and how good/bad it is:

I watched the video and what I am left with from it,

First off the video only made comparison to other model Thrustmaster products as to build quality, performance or features not a comparison of other available brands and products available.
This is fine if you are a Thrustmaster "fanboy" and will not consider the other options available and are using this video to decide between Thrustmaster products only although really it is even lacking in comparing any other models in detail even of the same brand.

Pretty plain they think that the extra effects are cool but in no way make any insinuation of the added effects increasing the actual games FFB to give an added performance advantage for the wheel.

The video also said that at the price point and level that this wheel was trying to enter that the pedal quality is below par compared to other options and technology being used at this pricing level.

They did like the buttons but the video did also point out in a very subtle way that for taking pictures or paint work you could just use you ds4 so although a nice touch, not really needed.

So at the end of the video I have no further proof or even indication that this by the even the video's admission that this somewhat overpriced wheel is anything more than perhaps the best version offered by Thrustmaster and in no way does this video say it is even as good as other brands much less better than a wheel costing much less money made by another company.

Does not say it is worse either so you actually learn nothing to compare this to other options from the video presented.

Actually now after watching the video I am more inclined to be of the opinion that the superior performance you believe you are receiving is in fact just your opinion and not the results of in game differences to other products and if you actually watch and listen to the video you presented you would also hear nothing in relation to the extra vibration being referred to as more than a cool effect only.

Nowhere does it say anything about it increasing performance.

I am glad you enjoy your product and no one has said it is not a good product, maybe overpriced but still nice.

But I think YOU trying to convince others of its superiority over other more regarded products is a lost cause!

You still have offered up nothing to the contrary to support that claim other than your own opinion.

 

[barkohba]

I watched the video and what I am left with from it,

First off the video only made comparison to other model Thrustmaster products as to build quality, performance or features not a comparison of other available brands and products available.
This is fine if you are a Thrustmaster "fanboy" and will not consider the other options available and are using this video to decide between Thrustmaster products only although really it is even lacking in comparing any other models in detail even of the same brand.

Pretty plain they think that the extra effects are cool but in no way make any insinuation of the added effects increasing the actual games FFB to give an added performance advantage for the wheel.

The video also said that at the price point and level that this wheel was trying to enter that the pedal quality is below par compared to other options and technology being used at this pricing level.

They did like the buttons but the video did also point out in a very subtle way that for taking pictures or paint work you could just use you ds4 so although a nice touch, not really needed.

So at the end of the video I have no further proof or even indication that this by the even the video's admission that this somewhat overpriced wheel is anything more than perhaps the best version offered by Thrustmaster and in no way does this video say it is even as good as other brands much less better than a wheel costing much less money made by another company.

Does not say it is worse either so you actually learn nothing to compare this to other options from the video presented.

Actually now after watching the video I am more inclined to be of the opinion that the superior performance you believe you are receiving is in fact just your opinion and not the results of in game differences to other products and if you actually watch and listen to the video you presented you would also hear nothing in relation to the extra vibration being referred to as more than a cool effect only.

Nowhere does it say anything about it increasing performance.

I am glad you enjoy your product and no one has said it is not a good product, maybe overpriced but still nice.

But I think YOU trying to convince others of its superiority over other more regarded products is a lost cause!

You still have offered up nothing to the contrary to support that claim other than your own opinion.

I am under no obligation to ffer any kind of evidence in as to convince you of anything, buddy.

This is a forum where people share opinions. I shared mine, it can be read in the initial post. You can take it or leave it. I have no interest in that. I've more interest in other people sharing their experience with this wheel or another that is on par or even better when it comes to how it feels on GTS, since this is, in case you didn't observe, a GTS sub forum.

I'm not sure anybody has said it's not a very good wheel, most review I have seen have positive things to say about it. However, that doesn't mean it can magically transform the ffb of GTS so that it is better than the ffb of AC which is what you have been suggesting.

Well I've never said that people said it's not a very good wheel or anything to that effect, not sure where you got that idea. The thread is about tire flex, and I pointed out that with the G29 i couldn't feel any tire flex in GTS, but with the T-GT I can. That's it.

As for my personal AC comparison, feel free to ask other T-GT users of their opinon or try it yourself. With the G29 I liked the way AC feels MUCH more than how GTS felt. With the T-GT I enjoy the FFB feel i get in GTS more. The reason might very well be the fact hat it's more optimised, and an additional hardware feature (the transducer which offers extra feel) works only in GTS. That is the full extend of what I've said. It's not my problem if you have a problem with my assessment. IT's my opinion and I shared it on this thread. End of story.

 

[TJC_69]

I'd prefer to hear more/see more about the tyre flexing than some pointless back and forth about a wheel. It's getting old...Maybe it's time to get back on topic and take the steering wheel discussion to an appropriate thread?

 

[VFOURMAX1]

This is a forum where people share opinions. I shared mine

I think on this subject you have been the only one that attempted to present their opinions as facts and then got upset when people ask you to back up what you claimed.

If you had of stayed within the opinion realm rather than trying to make a personal opinion to be more than what it was then you would not be trying to defend what more than one person has ask for facts to back up the claims.

And yes this is a GTS forum and as such when a claim is presented as a fact by a poster for a performance related aspect of the GTS game it should be questioned for sources that confirm or back up such claims.

The forum members interest in what affect a games performance in any capacity is of course a prime interest where the game is concerned.

 

[daan]

@barkohba Do not make 2 posts in a row, one directly after the other. Use the +quote feature to quote more than one person in a post.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

The thread is about tire flex, and I pointed out that with the G29 i couldn't feel any tire flex in GTS, but with the T-GT I can. That's it.

I'd prefer to hear more/see more about the tyre flexing than some pointless back and forth about a wheel.

Actually it does tie in together to a point because one of the issues is whether the tire flex is visual eye candy only or actually part of the physics of the grip levels.

Claims made about the what this particular wheel does within the games programming that other wheels lack resulting in a claimed performance advantage is what brought the wheel to be part of the tire flex conversation.

 

[barkohba]

I think on this subject you have been the only one that attempted to present their opinions as facts and then got upset when people ask you to back up what you claimed.

If you had of stayed within the opinion realm rather than trying to make a personal opinion to be more than what it was then you would not be trying to defend what more than one person has ask for facts to back up the claims.

And yes this is a GTS forum and as such when a claim is presented as a fact by a poster for a performance related aspect of the GTS game it should be questioned for sources that confirm or back up such claims.

The forum members interest in what affect a games performance in any capacity is of course a prime interest where the game is concerned.

I think theres a fundamental lack of understanding on your side about what I said and what type of claims warrant "sources" and "backing up".

I reiterate: Check my initial post. My claim, based on my experience with this product, is that I feel the tire flex. There is no possible way to offer "sources" or further backing that up.

I was then challenged on this claim, which is my personal experience with the T-GT (which i ise daily), with assumptions raging from its not true to its just placebo.

I have suggested that anyone, like yourselfz who has never tried the wheel on gts, can try for themsemves and be convinced, or not. I have also sahared some official tech specs as to why it feels the way I described.

Having that in view, continualy asking for "sources" in regards to me using a product you have never used and sharing my experience ammounts to nothing more than trolling, as there s no further avenues to take thos discussion since what you re asking for is non sensical, and can only be achieved by you yourself trying the wheel.

Furthermore, you keep refering to "claimed performance advantages" that this wheel offers. I have never made such claim. I only claimed that the ffb feels better, more detailed and is stronger.

 

[Scaff]

I think theres a fundamental lack of understanding on your side about what I said and what type of claims warrant "sources" and "backing up".

I reiterate: Check my initial post. My claim, based on my experience with this product, is that I feel the tire flex. There is no possible way to offer "sources" or further backing that up.

I was then challenged on this claim, which is my personal experience with the T-GT (which i ise daily), with assumptions raging from its not true to its just placebo.

I have suggested that anyone, like yourselfz who has never tried the wheel on gts, can try for themsemves and be convinced, or not. I have also sahared some official tech specs as to why it feels the way I described.

Having that in view, continualy asking for "sources" in regards to me using a product you have never used and sharing my experience ammounts to nothing more than trolling, as there s no further avenues to take thos discussion since what you re asking for is non sensical, and can only be achieved by you yourself trying the wheel.

Furthermore, you keep refering to "competitive advantages" that this wheel offers. I have never made such claim. I only claimed that the ffb feels better, more detailed and is stronger.

I've used it (briefly), however that's not really important.

What you said was:

"FFB at least (and the fact that I can now feel things I didn't before, like road vibrations, engine vibration, tire flex) is much improved and is actually above PC2 and AC (T-GT is recognized in PC2 and AC as Thrustmaster T300). "

Lets focus on the factual claim.....

"is much improved and is actually above PC2 and AC"

...now it may be a language barrier, but that not presented as an opinion, but as a point of fact.

All you were asked to do was support that, and rather than either doing so or clarifying that it should have been presented as an opinion, you chose to start attacking the credibility of other titles and insulting members (something that no one else in this thread has done).

So how about we 're-boot' this with a simple question.

Do you still maintain that as a fact or was it your opinion worded incorrectly (it happens to all of us from time to time).

 

[barkohba]

I've used it (briefly), however that's not really important.

What you said was:

"FFB at least (and the fact that I can now feel things I didn't before, like road vibrations, engine vibration, tire flex) is much improved and is actually above PC2 and AC (T-GT is recognized in PC2 and AC as Thrustmaster T300). "

Lets focus on the factual claim.....

"is much improved and is actually above PC2 and AC"

...now it may be a language barrier, but that not presented as an opinion, but as a point of fact.

All you were asked to do was support that, and rather than either doing so or clarifying that it should have been presented as an opinion, you chose to start attacking the credibility of other titles and insulting members (something that no one else in this thread has done).

So how about we 're-boot' this with a simple question.

Do you still maintain that as a fact or was it your opinion worded incorrectly (it happens to all of us from time to time).

I would assume its a logical assumption that what anyone says, including yourself, is from the get go a personal opinion.

I didnt know you considered me a sort of Ayatollah of the FFB review world and assume whatever I say is law...and then get offended by it and request i offer "sources" for my personal experience or clearly state that "its my personal opinion and not the law".

Im flattered and amused by your way of seeing things.

 

[Scaff]

I would assume its a logical assumption that what anyone says, including yourself, is from the get go a personal opinion.

Its written communication, it carries no context beyond the words used, as such we can only use the words you use to form that context. You presented it as fact, don't be surprised when it interpreted as such (and I wasn't just me).

I also didn't assume, I asked questions, you had ample opportunity to clarify, you chose not to.

I didnt know you considered me a sort of Ayatollah of the FFB review world and assume whatever I say is law...and then get offended by it and request i offer "sources" for my personal experience or clearly state that "its my personal opinion and not the law".

I didn't get offended, I asked for sources and clarification. Lest you forget you are the one who chose to break the AUP and make it personal, no one else.

Im flattered and amused by your way of seeing things.

You see I gave you a polite way to correct the position with out losing any face at all, and quite frankly all that gets me is another post complete with personal digs and thinly veiled attacks.

I may be an retired member of staff, but the AUP hasn't changed, and I can still see the result of those who break it. So I offer you some friendly advise, dial back the attitude, its healthier for ones membership that way.

 

[Auditore]

Details of the new tire model(from the GT World Tour Mega Report thread by mclarenLB):

• We start the day with each team getting 1 hours practice on Nurburging 24 in our Manufacturers. Here's where we learn that on the new tyre model and BoP, Its about 6 seconds off the leaders pace, 3 seconds of that getting lost on the big straight alone... We also need to take an additional pit stop in the race as the tyres on MR Gr3 cars on the new tyre model shred EVEN MORE. We have work to do.
• The Tyre Model is more predictable on corner entry, and much trickier on corner exit. Any aggressive Wheel or Pedal movements are now much more likely to step the car out.
• The new tyre model won't be put in as is.
  
• PD listened to the feedback from players about the tire model at the event.
• PD are re-working TCS as a whole so that it'll be less powerful at the lower settings. Kaz likened the current system as F1 powered rather than for GT3 which do run TC in real life and isn't as invasive.
• Apparently if you run TC 1-2 with the new model it feels similar to what we have currently in game at 0 on exits.

If you want to read the whole thread(it's really good) here's the link: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-nurburgring-world-tour-mega-report.378185/

 

[TJC_69]

Details of the new tire model(from the GT World Tour Mega Report thread by mclarenLB):

• We start the day with each team getting 1 hours practice on Nurburging 24 in our Manufacturers. Here's where we learn that on the new tyre model and BoP, Its about 6 seconds off the leaders pace, 3 seconds of that getting lost on the big straight alone... We also need to take an additional pit stop in the race as the tyres on MR Gr3 cars on the new tyre model shred EVEN MORE. We have work to do.
• The Tyre Model is more predictable on corner entry, and much trickier on corner exit. Any aggressive Wheel or Pedal movements are now much more likely to step the car out.
• The new tyre model won't be put in as is.
  
• PD listened to the feedback from players about the tire model at the event.
• PD are re-working TCS as a whole so that it'll be less powerful at the lower settings. Kaz likened the current system as F1 powered rather than for GT3 which do run TC in real life and isn't as invasive.
• Apparently if you run TC 1-2 with the new model it feels similar to what we have currently in game at 0 on exits.

If you want to read the whole thread(it's really good) here's the link: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/the-nurburgring-world-tour-mega-report.378185/

Good information and thanks for this!

 

[PzR Slim]

Why is it so hard for some people just to say, ‘fair enough thanks for increasing my knowledge of the subject.’?

 

[Auditore]

Why is it so hard for some people just to say, ‘fair enough thanks for increasing my knowledge of the subject.’?

Ego

 

[Imari]

Ahh okay I get ya, if any FFB was modeled after my little car I do think everyone would cry about numb FFB If I remember right though, LFS was pretty believable in comparison to my real life experiences.

It really depends a lot on the car and it's physical suspension set up. You're correct that you can set up a car in the real world to have very little feel at all. Or you can get cars that have so much "feel" that a tram track will rip the wheel out of your hands.

It's part of why FFB on a PC can be so hit or miss, because it's usually totally possible to get a really accurate result but depending on your wheel you may have to adjust a lot of settings to get it.

I'll let Inside Sim Racing clarify how the T-GT works and how good/bad it is:

So basically, yes. It's an additional vibration motor just like Microsoft had. Woo. Just get a Buttkicker and be done with it.

 

[FPV MIC]

So basically, yes. It's an additional vibration motor just like Microsoft had. Woo. Just get a Buttkicker and be done with it.

Yep, it's another vibration motor, but it does convey some different information to the user than the buttkicker. Having both is better .

 

[Outspacer]

So basically, yes. It's an additional vibration motor just like Microsoft had. Woo. Just get a Buttkicker and be done with it.

True, in one sense, but it's something GTS knows is there, so it doesn't have to stuff those canned effects through the wheel motor, making the rotational FFB purer. Maybe this is what @barkohba notices.

 

[Imari]

True, in one sense, but it's something GTS knows is there, so it doesn't have to stuff those canned effects through the wheel motor, making the rotational FFB purer. Maybe this is what @barkohba notices.

Maybe. I've got a CSR and I don't particularly like the vibration in the games that support it. But different strokes for different folks I guess. I prefer to keep my wheel behaving as much like a real wheel as possible, and any other additional feedback to be delivered through another discrete source be that visually, audibly or buttpunchingly.

 

[Outspacer]

Maybe. I've got a CSR and I don't particularly like the vibration in the games that support it. But different strokes for different folks I guess. I prefer to keep my wheel behaving as much like a real wheel as possible, and any other additional feedback to be delivered through another discrete source be that visually, audibly or buttpunchingly.

Granted, maybe, but it would be a logical explanation. Given that GTS is utterly deficient in FFB settings to play with, it would be the only way to get FFB more like you (or I) would like it, if that is the case. I've no idea if tyre flex is in there, I'm just saying it could well explain a notable difference in feel.

 

[barkohba]

J

It really depends a lot on the car and it's physical suspension set up. You're correct that you can set up a car in the real world to have very little feel at all. Or you can get cars that have so much "feel" that a tram track will rip the wheel out of your hands.

It's part of why FFB on a PC can be so hit or miss, because it's usually totally possible to get a really accurate result but depending on your wheel you may have to adjust a lot of settings to get it.



So basically, yes. It's an additional vibration motor just like Microsoft had. Woo. Just get a Buttkicker and be done with it.

Just yo be clear, the extra "motor" on yhe T GT that only works in GTS is not exactly a vibration motor but an actual passive small subwoofer.

As a whole though, the TGT offers much more detail than my old G29, besides the "vibrations".

 

[Scaff]

J


Just yo be clear, the extra "motor" on yhe T GT that only works in GTS is not exactly a vibration motor but an actual passive small subwoofer.

As a whole though, the TGT offers much more detail than my old G29, besides the "vibrations".

So it's doing the same as a tactile unit, but for a lot less titles.

 

[Imari]

Just yo be clear, the extra "motor" on yhe T GT that only works in GTS is not exactly a vibration motor but an actual passive small subwoofer.

So it's just like the Buttkicker that I referenced earlier, but attached to the wheel instead of your bum.

It's great that you like it, but it's not the revolutionary idea that Thrustmaster's bumf would present it as, nor is it creating more accurate FFB (at least in the sense of the torques through the steering wheel). It's essentially replicating what the vibration motors in a DS4 do, which inarguably provide additional information to the player.

Technically the vibration motors in a DS4 are FFB devices, but they tend not to be described as such within a racing game context because racing games have a very specific usage of FFB that tends to take precedence over all others unless explicitly stated. Steering FFB is so much more critical to a racing game than any other sort of FFB that if you just state "FFB" in isolation it's assumed that you're talking about steering FFB. Even more so should you be explicitly talking about a device used for steering, like a racing wheel.

The additional motor/woofer/whatever on the TGT isn't an FFB device in the above sense. It's an immersion device, it gives you vibration and information that in a real car you'd feel through your whole body. Hence why people who are familiar with simulation games take exception to the idea that it makes the steering FFB somehow more accurate. It doesn't. The torques through the steering column are the same as they always are, it's just that there's also this completely separate stream of FFB that isn't even necessarily related to steering at all. You could take that FFB stream and run it to a Buttkicker instead and the effect would be the same, as I already mentioned.

I think you're getting carried away with the totality of the experience and missing what the individual components are doing. That's not a bad thing, immersion is a wonderful thing in a racing game and it can really take it to the next level. But what the TGT is doing is separate and distinct from the standard idea of steering FFB, and it's something that has been available for quite a long time and has been included in steering devices before in slightly different forms.

P.S. As a question from the engineer side of me that's curious about how the thing is put together, is there much play in the axis along the steering column? That is to say, if you're sitting holding the wheel and you try and move it towards and away from you, do you feel much movement? Normally wheels are mounted in such a way as to minimise movement in that direction, but looking at where the TGT motor is mounted and how it probably functions I wonder if they left space for the wheel to move in that dimension.

 

[barkohba]

So it's just like the Buttkicker that I referenced earlier, but attached to the wheel instead of your bum.

It's great that you like it, but it's not the revolutionary idea that Thrustmaster's bumf would present it as, nor is it creating more accurate FFB (at least in the sense of the torques through the steering wheel). It's essentially replicating what the vibration motors in a DS4 do, which inarguably provide additional information to the player.

Technically the vibration motors in a DS4 are FFB devices, but they tend not to be described as such within a racing game context because racing games have a very specific usage of FFB that tends to take precedence over all others unless explicitly stated. Steering FFB is so much more critical to a racing game than any other sort of FFB that if you just state "FFB" in isolation it's assumed that you're talking about steering FFB. Even more so should you be explicitly talking about a device used for steering, like a racing wheel.

The additional motor/woofer/whatever on the TGT isn't an FFB device in the above sense. It's an immersion device, it gives you vibration and information that in a real car you'd feel through your whole body. Hence why people who are familiar with simulation games take exception to the idea that it makes the steering FFB somehow more accurate. It doesn't. The torques through the steering column are the same as they always are, it's just that there's also this completely separate stream of FFB that isn't even necessarily related to steering at all. You could take that FFB stream and run it to a Buttkicker instead and the effect would be the same, as I already mentioned.

I think you're getting carried away with the totality of the experience and missing what the individual components are doing. That's not a bad thing, immersion is a wonderful thing in a racing game and it can really take it to the next level. But what the TGT is doing is separate and distinct from the standard idea of steering FFB, and it's something that has been available for quite a long time and has been included in steering devices before in slightly different forms.

P.S. As a question from the engineer side of me that's curious about how the thing is put together, is there much play in the axis along the steering column? That is to say, if you're sitting holding the wheel and you try and move it towards and away from you, do you feel much movement? Normally wheels are mounted in such a way as to minimise movement in that direction, but looking at where the TGT motor is mounted and how it probably functions I wonder if they left space for the wheel to move in that dimension.

Well, if you re asking whether the wheel has any movement as if its loose, no. Its rock solid.

 

[Scaff]

So it's just like the Buttkicker that I referenced earlier, but attached to the wheel instead of your bum.

It's great that you like it, but it's not the revolutionary idea that Thrustmaster's bumf would present it as, nor is it creating more accurate FFB (at least in the sense of the torques through the steering wheel). It's essentially replicating what the vibration motors in a DS4 do, which inarguably provide additional information to the player.

Technically the vibration motors in a DS4 are FFB devices, but they tend not to be described as such within a racing game context because racing games have a very specific usage of FFB that tends to take precedence over all others unless explicitly stated. Steering FFB is so much more critical to a racing game than any other sort of FFB that if you just state "FFB" in isolation it's assumed that you're talking about steering FFB. Even more so should you be explicitly talking about a device used for steering, like a racing wheel.

The additional motor/woofer/whatever on the TGT isn't an FFB device in the above sense. It's an immersion device, it gives you vibration and information that in a real car you'd feel through your whole body. Hence why people who are familiar with simulation games take exception to the idea that it makes the steering FFB somehow more accurate. It doesn't. The torques through the steering column are the same as they always are, it's just that there's also this completely separate stream of FFB that isn't even necessarily related to steering at all. You could take that FFB stream and run it to a Buttkicker instead and the effect would be the same, as I already mentioned.

I think you're getting carried away with the totality of the experience and missing what the individual components are doing. That's not a bad thing, immersion is a wonderful thing in a racing game and it can really take it to the next level. But what the TGT is doing is separate and distinct from the standard idea of steering FFB, and it's something that has been available for quite a long time and has been included in steering devices before in slightly different forms.

P.S. As a question from the engineer side of me that's curious about how the thing is put together, is there much play in the axis along the steering column? That is to say, if you're sitting holding the wheel and you try and move it towards and away from you, do you feel much movement? Normally wheels are mounted in such a way as to minimise movement in that direction, but looking at where the TGT motor is mounted and how it probably functions I wonder if they left space for the wheel to move in that dimension.

In regard to play, tactile setups work best in a rigid system, do I would think that TM have done all they can to minimise that.

Certainly my tactile rig gives vibration through the entire seat, the wheel, pedals and shifter.

The main advantage of a wheel mounted system is compactness and ease of use. Standalibe systems need an external feed (receiver LFE in my case), power amp, cables and the tactile unit itself. The advantages the give are a greater range of frequencies that can be transmitted and more kick. I get a thump throughout the entire rig when landing a jump in Dirt for example, a sharp kick when changing gear in a car with race transmission; as well as the more subtle feelings from different rumble strips, curve, off track, grip loss, etc .

It's that more subtle stuff that gets lost if the system isn't rigid enough, which is why I have isolation blocks on each corner.

 

[super_gt]

The inside of the wheel:
(photo taken by @user3392345)

 

[Scaff]

The inside of the wheel:
(photo taken by @user3392345)

That pretty much looks like a small tactile puck on the right.