Tire Smoke and Marks!?

[alex v]

I know this would probably need to go to the GT5 wish list thread, but I researched and noticed that there isn't enough attention to this important detail. That's why I thought this thread could be useful along with a poll.

I personally think it's very important for GT5 to finally have real tire smoke and tire marks. I don't know why they haven't changed it by now, but without these things sometimes it's boring driving a powerful car without seeing major smoke effects on a powerslide, it's simply doesn't feel realistic without it.
They did make an improvement on the sand and grass area over the time, but not yet in the cars. I didn't notice this in Prologue and I hope they'll have it right this time.
So Mr. Yamauchi please get rid of the half a second puff, and please have real smoke with real effects.

For example here's a direct quote of NFS Prostreet developer, about what he thinks of smoke and tires; "The smoke really connects you to the car, it delivers on the horse power and the violence of it,... this detail truly connects the car to the road".

 

[Gabkicks]

yes... why would anyone say no. tire marks are an important part of racing as well as smoke.

 

[Jim Prower]

Smoke is VERY hard to emulate on a computer. In fact, the first time I've seen REAL-LOOKING tire smoke on anything computer-made was in the recent movie, "Cars." Certianly, the smoke in GT could use work. Granted, tire smoke, especially the thick stuff, is hard to get under normal racing conditions, well, at least while trying to go fast. Drag race burnouts are another story. But, yes, thicker and longer lasting smoke capabilities would be nice. The smoke from the stack of my Microsoft Train Simulator's Flying Scotsman is thicker.

Tire marks are a different story. These CAN be reallistically emulated easily. the problem is keeping them on the track. It used to be, these would get erased as more tire marks got put down. However, think of what it would be like to actually put rubber down on the track as you raced over a weekend, or what would happened if it rained raceday morning and the rubber got washed off. That would be cool...realtime track condition changes.

 

[Raitziger]

new nfs has nice smoke. http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21919.html

 

[dylansan]

Obviously it should be in, but I don't think it's as important as other things. I would like it in, but it's not a priority.

 

[alex v]

new nfs has nice smoke. http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21919.html

Ahha, yess I was looking at that new NFS Prostreet as well! Need for Speed was always good at tire burning, they got it perfect this time! Should be amazing game this new NFS!

Obviously it should be in, but I don't think it's as important as other things. I would like it in, but it's not a priority.

Yes it's not as important as actual physique of the car and how it handles, or maybe something else but it should definitely be changed to more realism.

 

[alex v]

Here's a direct quote from NFS Prostreet developer about the smoke in their new game "The smoke really connects you to the car, it delivers on the horse power and the violence of it, and people also just LOVE doing donuts and burnups...this detail truly connects the car to the road" I respect what he said, it's truly the detail that is a must for more realism in racing. He also said it's a #1 request from the fans, and I really do see why. They are really concentrating on this detail to make it as real as possible. 👍
For more info on all this just check out the E3 trailer, it's pretty nice.

 

[the Interceptor]

and people just LOVE doing donuts and burnups

No offense, but I actually think that the average guy loving to do donuts and burnouts (?) in a game is not the one to buy Gran Turismo. Therefor, you can not generalize that statement for all people.

 

[alex v]

No offense, but I actually think that the average guy loving to do donuts and burnouts (?) in a game is not the one to buy Gran Turismo. Therefor, you can not generalize that statement for all people.

^^ Why is that, because GT is not realistic enough in this area? That could be true though if GT wouldn't improve in this detail, but that person is definitely not me. I'm a GT fan from the beginning, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't improve in this.
Honestly I'm not a burnout freak but I do love doing it once in a while, the best way is in drifting though. It doesn't just look more real when you have smoke coming out of your rear wheels on a tight powerslide, it also just feels more real inside.

 

[Gabkicks]

No offense, but I actually think that the average guy loving to do donuts and burnouts (?) in a game is not the one to buy Gran Turismo. Therefor, you can not generalize that statement for all people.

you will be surprised when gt5 goes online. people play around in serious pc racing sims, so why wouldnt they in gran turismo?

 

[Earth]

Obviously it should be in, but I don't think it's as important as other things. I would like it in, but it's not a priority.

I agree

Some people act like the single greatest thing PD could add to GT5 is tire marks and burnouts

For me the only use of a burnout is to turn a high powered car around quickly after spinning. That's it

Yeah it would be nice to see the effects but I won't miss 1 second of sleep if the GT series never gets tire marks and burnouts

 

[Wolfe]

you will be surprised when gt5 goes online. people play around in serious pc racing sims, so why wouldnt they in gran turismo?

Agreed. People get bored and goof off. You don't have to race seriously 100% of the time.

 

[franz]

WRC4 has good smoke too when go on gravel, like prostreet the smoke goes around the fenders. Back to the topic, remember backfire from GT4? Fancy stuff for driving simulation. I guess PD will do it again with other effect to attract wider crowd. Maybe better tire smoke or adding marks, who knows?

btw Prostreet seems to a good game to wait for

 

[SimRaceDriver]

yes... why would anyone say no. tire marks are an important part of racing as well as smoke.

Care to elaborate on why it's such an important factor, considering when I race now in GT4, I can see the smoke coming off the car in front me...and I don't really care if there's smoke coming from MY CAR, as I can't see it anyway.

And I don't really care if there's tire-marks...I know how to find the apex of a turn and don't need someone else's tread marks to tell me whether or not I'm on the right line or not?

 

[Quiet_Storm]

I think tire smoke would be a nice addition but they really need to add tire marks into the game. Tire marks add to the realism and when your car is over the edge of grip, it needs to be shown so that it shows the car is actually connected to the track instead of floating over it. I think a more important thing that needs to be changed is the tire sounds. I really hope they fixed this and that they're not still using the same old tire screeching sounds from GT1 because that would annoy the hell out of me. To the point where I might not even consider buying the game.

Tire smoke would be a very welcomed addition but it needs to be realistic. NFS Pro Street does have realistic smoke but if you watch the videos, you'll notice that it comes on way too fast. You barely spin the tires and the smoke is already bellowing out of the wheel well which isn't realistic at all. I still think tire marks is more important this time and the smoke just needs to be more apparent but doesn't have to be Pro Street level.

 

[j8mie]

Yes GT5 does need decent tyre smoke and tyre marks. For me that's a total no brainer, however not at the expenses of other more important features like improved AI, and changing real time environmental features.

The smoke in the NFS trailer was very good. Most impressive I have to say.

Franz - Silly question but where did you get your aviator from?

 

[Gabkicks]

Care to elaborate on why it's such an important factor, considering when I race now in GT4, I can see the smoke coming off the car in front me...and I don't really care if there's smoke coming from MY CAR, as I can't see it anyway.

And I don't really care if there's tire-marks...I know how to find the apex of a turn and don't need someone else's tread marks to tell me whether or not I'm on the right line or not?

not only that, but tire marks show where rubber is built up, during rainy races you want to avoid the big patches of rubber. Unless you have mastered every single track in the game, tire marks will come in handy when trying to quickly get up to pace. and then there's marbles... if the guy locks up his tires, there will sometimes be a puff of smoke. or if there's a crash ahead to raise your allert level... or a cloud of dirt to let you know a car ahead has gone off the road so his tires will be a little funny.

I really didnt think i needed to go into details but i can go on and on and on and on and on.

 

[DustDriver]

@ j8mie
he probably designed it all by himself

 

[SimRaceDriver]

Even 'IF' PD somehow 'magically' incorporated tire-marks into GT5, they (PD) would still have to incorporate the PHYSICS of such 'rubber build-up' into the cars and/or tracks, in order for you to experience more grip or less grip, depending the condition(s) of the track your driving. Otherwise, all the tire-marks would be are little black-lines in the road which would still not be beneficial and would only serve to be 'eye-candy'...

I still say everyone want's EVERYTHING in a GAME when it's not going to happen!
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there will never come a day (At least not in my lifetime I beleive), when you're going to be able to start-up a console/PC, throw in your favorite driving/racing game and EXPECT it be IDENTICAL to "real life"...SACRIFICES are going to have to be made!

Therefore, for now, let's focus on the MORE IMPORTANT things that "PD" should/would/will incorporate into GT5, such as:

Better A.I.
Better ENGINE SOUNDS
Better TIRE SOUNDS
Online Playability
Larger Grids/More Cars
Etc.,Etc.,

And let's stop focusing on the 'small stuff' like tire marks, smoke and/or music!
There are other games that already have these features in them...why not go play them?

And let's stop assuming that PD should hop on the band-wagon and copy/duplicate/replicate the playability, sounds, features, physics, etc., etc., of some other 3rd party game. (smoke from NFS, Damage From TOCA, etc.,etc.)

In case you folks have forgotten, Sony sold over 31 MILLION COPIES of the GT Series up to..oh..what...GT4? I don't think any other game company can boast such sales figures. (If someone has this info handy or saved though some place, let me know!)

Personally, there are so many more things I would love to see from PD and the GT series, but to say that tire-marks and smoke are important, let me ask you this:

* Would you rather have tire-marks and smoke included in GT5 OVER better engines sounds or over a better AI?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke included in GT5 over the inclusion of Ferrari?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke included in GT5 if you knew PD was going to include Porsche and Lamborghini?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke to be included into GT5 if PD was going to include SPA as a race-track?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke to be included if that meant removing there being a 'cockpit view' if available?

 

[Wolfe]

Even 'IF' PD somehow 'magically' incorporated tire-marks into GT5, they (PD) would still have to incorporate the PHYSICS of such 'rubber build-up' into the cars and/or tracks, in order for you to experience more grip or less grip, depending the condition(s) of the track your driving. Otherwise, all the tire-marks would be are little black-lines in the road which would still not be beneficial and would only serve to be 'eye-candy'...

Nothing wrong with eye candy, especially since it would be so easy to implement. The visual effect is all this thread is asking for.

I still say everyone want's EVERYTHING in a GAME when it's not going to happen!
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there will never come a day (At least not in my lifetime I beleive), when you're going to be able to start-up a console/PC, throw in your favorite driving/racing game and EXPECT it be IDENTICAL to "real life"...SACRIFICES are going to have to be made!

Aw shucks. I guess that means game developers shouldn't even bother trying to make the experience as realistic as they can with today's technology. They might as well give up.

Therefore, for now, let's focus on the MORE IMPORTANT things that "PD" should/would/will incorporate into GT5, such as:

Better A.I.
Better ENGINE SOUNDS
Better TIRE SOUNDS
Online Playability
Larger Grids/More Cars
Etc.,Etc.

More important to you, perhaps. Not necessarily more important to others.

Not to mention your items are, on the whole, more difficult and time-consuming to add to the game than a simple tire mark effect.

And let's stop focusing on the 'small stuff' like tire marks, smoke and/or music!
There are other games that already have these features in them...why not go play them?

Yeah, why bother hoping for those same features in Gran Turismo? Other racing games obviously offer the exact same gameplay experience.

And let's stop assuming that PD should hop on the band-wagon and copy/duplicate/replicate the playability, sounds, features, physics, etc., etc., of some other 3rd party game. (smoke from NFS, Damage From TOCA, etc.,etc.)

Including good ideas and gameplay features that other games happen to have is "hopping on the band-wagon?"

In case you folks have forgotten, Sony sold over 31 MILLION COPIES of the GT Series up to..oh..what...GT4? I don't think any other game company can boast such sales figures. (If someone has this info handy or saved though some place, let me know!)

That does not prove -- in any way, shape, or form -- that Polyphony Digital isn't doing anything wrong with Gran Turismo, or couldn't make anything better.

Personally, there are so many more things I would love to see from PD and the GT series, but to say that tire-marks and smoke are important, let me ask you this:

* Would you rather have tire-marks and smoke included in GT5 OVER better engines sounds or over a better AI?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke included in GT5 over the inclusion of Ferrari?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke included in GT5 if you knew PD was going to include Porsche and Lamborghini?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke to be included into GT5 if PD was going to include SPA as a race-track?
* Would you want tire-marks and/or smoke to be included if that meant removing there being a 'cockpit view' if available?

1. Nope.

2. Doesn't matter anymore.

3. Yes.

4. Yes.

5. Nope.

 

[alex v]

SimRaceDriver it's not a option whether we want this over that. One thing doesn't have to be sacrificed in order to get another. It's just a thing that PD need to think about and start improving it. It is very important detail after all like many other said.

Gabkicks made a pretty detailed post on tire marks and the smoke in post #17. It's not about burnouts and donuts, it's about the reality of the racing environment, and how it can effect you and others around you.

 

[Gabkicks]

simracedriver, do you ever get toppings on your pizza, or are you afraid the chefs will lose focus and forget to put sauce on the pie or maybe that they'll forget to use salt or yeast in the dough?

 

[SimRaceDriver]

simracedriver, do you ever get toppings on your pizza, or are you afraid the chefs will lose focus and forget to put sauce on the pie or maybe that they'll forget to use salt or yeast in the dough?

Your post failed to make sense! Now, why don't you adhere to the AUP and state something that is relevant to the topic at hand!

 

[Ben Aracin]

I'll just add to Gabkicks post.
Say your in the middle of the 16 car lineup racing hard to catch a podium finish.
You round a tight corner and see a large brake lockup/ tire marks screeching on the track and right near the end of the tire marks is a huge cloud of dust/smoke/debris/etc right near the edge and halfway on the track with little to no visibility through it.
What do you do in that split second before you hit that mess.
Do you follow the tire mark to the edge of the track and hope there is no car or cars sitting there, or do you take a line as far away as possible and hope for the best.
^That line of thought is EXACTLY why tire smoke/tire marks/dust etc are needed even as an additional download.
It up's the realism and exictement/tension of the race.
It's a part of racing as these things DO happen.
As far as i'm concerned, no it doesn't HAVE to be included in Prolouge but it would be and should be at the very least a downloadable option for GT5, if it's not in the final product at release.
No offense to Gabkicks for my "adding" to his post.
Just figured a good example was neded to maybe make some folk rethink what would be more real for racing. Ferrari/Porsche/etc or the inclusion of a more in depth racing feel, not i wouldn't want and don't want the big three, especially Porsche.

 

[Wolfe]

Your post failed to make sense! Now, why don't you adhere to the AUP and state something that is relevant to the topic at hand!

It makes perfect sense. You're so worried that Polyphony Digital will neglect what you consider to be the "essentials" that you can't stand the thought of anyone asking for little extra special effects or features.

Or, as Gabkicks put it, you don't want any toppings on the pizza, because you're convinced that the inclusion of toppings will distract the chef enough to ruin the sauce and dough.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

simracedriver, do you ever get toppings on your pizza, or are you afraid the chefs will lose focus and forget to put sauce on the pie or maybe that they'll forget to use salt or yeast in the dough?

Actually I do get pizza with sausage and Round Table happens to follow a repeatable process for making pizzas.., just as the local McDonald's in your area does the same thing with Hamburgers..So, what you're asking in the way of tire-marks and/or smoke is essentially asking either "Roundtable" or "McDonalds" to NOW start doing something that breaks from the norm of what they've been doing for years, simply to satisfy YOUR wishes, or the wishes of a FEW.

PD has never included tiremarks in previous versions and though it would be nice, I personally do not see that happening any time soon, because in my opinion, there are other things of greater value to incorporate, regardless of how 'easy' or how 'hard' it would be to incorporate them into the game.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

It makes perfect sense. You're so worried that Polyphony Digital will neglect what you consider to be the "essentials" that you can't stand the thought of anyone asking for little extra special effects or features.

Or, as Gabkicks put it, you don't want any toppings on the pizza, because you're convinced that the inclusion of toppings will distract the chef enough to ruin the sauce and dough.

Actually I'm not worried about what PD does, because based on what they've been doing since GT1, all they way through GT4, I know the game(s) will only get better and PD, albeit very slowly, will improve on each new version in one fashion or another.

 

[SimRaceDriver]

I'll just add to Gabkicks post.
Say your in the middle of the 16 car lineup racing hard to catch a podium finish.
You round a tight corner and see a large brake lockup/ tire marks screeching on the track and right near the end of the tire marks is a huge cloud of dust/smoke/debris/etc right near the edge and halfway on the track with little to no visibility through it.
What do you do in that split second before you hit that mess.
Do you follow the tire mark to the edge of the track and hope there is no car or cars sitting there, or do you take a line as far away as possible and hope for the best.
^That line of thought is EXACTLY why tire smoke/tire marks/dust etc are needed even as an additional download.
It up's the realism and exictement/tension of the race.
It's a part of racing as these things DO happen.
As far as i'm concerned, no it doesn't HAVE to be included in Prolouge but it would be and should be at the very least a downloadable option for GT5, if it's not in the final product at release.
No offense to Gabkicks for my "adding" to his post.
Just figured a good example was neded to maybe make some folk rethink what would be more real for racing. Ferrari/Porsche/etc or the inclusion of a more in depth racing feel, not i wouldn't want and don't want the big three, especially Porsche.

Side Note: My original comments were based on the view point of ME 'being the driver' in car and thus, not really caring about whether or not my car tires left 'tire-tracks', but upon consideration (DOH!) I can see the viewpoint of those same effects when driving BEHIND someone and using those as visual cues to understanding what that particular car was doing and using them to my advantage.

Guess I should have just said originally..."Hey..Tiremarks would be cool if they also improved the physics as well" and left it be at that.

So, I'll admit having tiremarks would be nice....let's keep our fingers crossed!



SRD:

 

[Gabkicks]

the best simulator out right now, Live For Speed has tire marks. Lots of games have tiremarks while gran turismo doesn't.

 

[Wolfe]

the best simulator out right now, Live For Speed has tire marks. Lots of games have tiremarks while gran turismo doesn't.

Yup. Some pizza places offer pineapple, some don't. That doesn't mean that it's unrealistic to ask a certain pizza place to start offering pineapple.

(Are we done with the pizza metaphors yet?)