Tire Wear

killerjimbag

killerjimbag

(Banned)
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The Great White North
abetterplaya
Well PD has just changed the game again.Went into a Nascar Daytona Room and you get 1/3 of the laps now on racing soft tires.This is a huge game changer.It will be very interesting on how it effects everyone's tunes now in online rooms with tire wear and grip being full.:sly:
 
It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in organized leagues and in online lobbies. I have a feeling a lot of guys will just turn tire wear off or shorten the races so it's not a factor.

From a tuning standpoint, it can have several implications or none at all depending on how things go. There may be a movement towards harder compounds or away from tire wear, or both. Is it worth it to have a garage full of RS tunes anymore? Will SS and harder become more of a standard tire in online competitions? Will tire wear be turned off in a lot of situations?

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out..👍
 
I think tire wear will be turned off for sprint rooms. I however intend to leave it on in my sport-soft lobby. We'll find out after a week or so whether drivers drop down to sport-hard tires to have more grip late in the race.
 
I was tuning yesterday my Alfa 8C competizione / 500PP / sport soft tires.
It was possible to do online or offline 4 laps at Nurburgring Nordschleife, at racing cruising speed , fast but safe, no late braking ,good line.....no excessive input on the wheel . 3 laps and a half without problems and the last half of the 4th lap taking care to not go out because less grip. More 5 second for the slower last lap. The tires indicator with 1/3 full only.

Today after 2.02, same car same settings same conditions, only 3 laps ,2 laps and a half without problems and the last half of the 3rd lap taking care to not go out because less grip. Same tires indicator with 1/3 full only.

So it means for me online and offline now is -25% tire's life less than yesterday.

The sound change a little. Wind noise together with speed.
 
Well everyone is a driver (tuners included). I think the next few days are going to be about learning the new tire model for everyone. After that, tuners will start experimenting more closely with suspension settings to improve tire wear. It was always important in tuning, but with tires wearing out faster, signs of a bad setup will show up much sooner.
 
Turning off tire wear will turn this into an arcade version of itself.I tried 3 different compounds at Daytona today,Racing,Sports and Comfort.Comfort hard actually works at this track and I did 25 laps before pitting.I usually did 35 to 40 on RS but that is not going to happen with the new update.Good luck to all of the tuners out there,we have some serious work to do to get back up to speed,so to speak.👍
 
killerjimbag
Well PD has just changed the game again.Went into a Nascar Daytona Room and you get 1/3 of the laps now on racing soft tires.This is a huge game changer.It will be very interesting on how it effects everyone's tunes now in online rooms with tire wear and grip being full.:sly:
Click to expand...

It is true, I was also running Daytona Nascar yesterday online and I was shock to see how my tyres were gone soooooo fast, I thought I was driving drunk cause in a single spin I burn out my 4 tyres, everybody in the lobby scream Did you see that ?

Man took me a lot of time to find a nice tune on this forum for my Nascar cars but now I think my actual tunes will not work anymore. As I am a complete noob tuning, I hope someone over here make a nice new tune for Nascar cars that at least bring the 30 laps tyre mileage.

Keep runing.
 
This is just a guess but I don't think tuning is going to have much effect on enhancing tire wear. Sounds to me like they've adjusted the tire model so it's mainly a function of distance driven as opposed to what's happening on the track. As always smooth driving and a setup with balance front and rear grip will work but you're not going to see long races on RS tires again, unless you really baby the car, in which case you might as well go to a harder compound and race harder.
 
Johnnypenso
Sounds to me like they've adjusted the tire model so it's mainly a function of distance driven as opposed to what's happening on the track.
Click to expand...

I think you might be right.

When testing yesterday (GT500 car), I noticed that the RS tires didn't heat up in the same way as before. It took much longer time and they never got completely white. The RM/RS behaved in the same way as before.

In FR cars, front tirewear is normally the biggest issue. When I tested where before the front would wear faster than rear, now the wear was much more even. When going too hot into a corner, the outer front can go red. This didn't happen in the same way now.

So if PD has added a wear function bascially just on milage, nursing tirewear on the track will be less important than before.

Early days and above is not really tested, but it would be very unfortunate,
 
I ran a GT300 1 hr race last night. RS tires put you a solid 1:00 ahead of RH tires (same car, no tuning) by the end of the race with twice as many pit stops. This test was done at Tokyo R246 where RS tires were a solid 3 seconds quicker per lap when fresh. The drivers usually run within a few 10ths of each other. If the gap was less than 15 seconds one could argue there is a chance, but at 1:00 the evidence is clear. Run fast and hard and pit often.

So grip wins over wear for most tracks. The only exceptions will be the super speedways where drafting can keep you close to the leaders and running additional laps can give you track position.

I'm guessing this increased tire wear will just make things worse for FF cars attempting to compete against FR and MR cars.
 
Sail IC
I think you might be right.

When testing yesterday (GT500 car), I noticed that the RS tires didn't heat up in the same way as before. It took much longer time and they never got completely white. The RM/RS behaved in the same way as before.

In FR cars, front tirewear is normally the biggest issue. When I tested where before the front would wear faster than rear, now the wear was much more even. When going too hot into a corner, the outer front can go red. This didn't happen in the same way now.

So if PD has added a wear function bascially just on milage, nursing tirewear on the track will be less important than before.

Early days and above is not really tested, but it would be very unfortunate,
Click to expand...

I noticed the same thing about tires seeming to wear more evenly front and rear and that's what led me to that conclusion initially, that they've favoured distance as opposed to what's happening on track for tire wear. That's one easy way you would resolve the issue of RH and RM tires not lasting as long as RS tires before the update because they used to wear a lot when grip was lost in cornering and accelerating. Change the tire wear model to severely reduce lost grip or wheelspin as an element in tire wear, make it based for the most part on distance and voila, problem solved.

You're right, it's still early, but it seems that while trying to fix one problem, they may have introduced 2 or 3 more. As Chuyler notes above, RS tires may still be the way to go anyway so the goal of perhaps making tire choice a crucial race strategy still doesn't exist and now you may not have strategy of saving the tires to extend your pit stops to the same degree either.

In trying to fix things, PD has taken choice and strategy away, not the most thought out plans that's for sure...lol. Just another reason for me to continue to believe that many of these fixes are just coding bandaids, and no real thought is put into them beyond, "hey Bob, can you adjust the code so RS tires don't last as long?"..."Sure Kaz"..."Ok, cool, have a good weekend". I swear these guys don't play the game at all the way most of us do.
 
Johnnypenso
In trying to fix things, PD has taken choice and strategy away, not the most thought out plans that's for sure.
Click to expand...

I don't fully agree. PD has added strategy to races on the super speedways while not changing anything for road courses. Nothing has been taken away, only added on certain tracks.

The info I'm hearing is that NASCAR racers are seeing the RH tires as the new standard while GT500 racers aren't seeing any difference aside from fewer laps.

With tire wear being different, we can enforce new rules in our online leagues. A requirement that a driver must use each type of tire during the race could make for some interesting finishes. Some drivers will choose to start on different tires and will run a different number of laps on each tire. You really won't be able to predict what the best combo is ahead of time for each track. There is a variability now that forces new strategy across the board. Did PD get this right? No. Did they at least make an improvement? Yes.
 
chuyler1
With tire wear being different, we can enforce new rules in our online leagues. A requirement that a driver must use each type of tire during the race could make for some interesting finishes. Some drivers will choose to start on different tires and will run a different number of laps on each tire. You really won't be able to predict what the best combo is ahead of time for each track. There is a variability now that forces new strategy across the board. Did PD get this right? No. Did they at least make an improvement? Yes.
Click to expand...

I like this. More like F1 and Indy Car road courses. Must run both the prime tire and the softs during the race. This has added pit strategy as a factor. Love it.
 
The only difference with F1 and Indy is that the difference in lap times for them is measured in 10ths. For most GT5 tracks the difference will be measured in seconds...meaning you have no chance in hell to block someone on better tires.
 
Ran a number of nascar races last night with different compounds and sport hards are the way to go. 32 laps with only small tweaks to the suspension so far . Im going to try a few more things today. Guys trying RH are only getting 21 laps.
 
chuyler1
I don't fully agree. PD has added strategy to races on the super speedways while not changing anything for road courses. Nothing has been taken away, only added on certain tracks.

The info I'm hearing is that NASCAR racers are seeing the RH tires as the new standard while GT500 racers aren't seeing any difference aside from fewer laps.

With tire wear being different, we can enforce new rules in our online leagues. A requirement that a driver must use each type of tire during the race could make for some interesting finishes. Some drivers will choose to start on different tires and will run a different number of laps on each tire. You really won't be able to predict what the best combo is ahead of time for each track. There is a variability now that forces new strategy across the board. Did PD get this right? No. Did they at least make an improvement? Yes.
Click to expand...

You always had the choice to force drivers to use different tires for a race, that hasn't changed. The new strategy will now be use RS tires as long as possible, then RM tires as long as possible then RH tires to finish the race as short as possible, that's a no brainer. The only strategy will be RM or RS first or second.

Nascar aside for the moment, your own testing shows that in an Enduro RS tires are still the way to go, so there is no strategy there either. All they've really done is make the softer tires last a shorter time, without it affecting tire choice at all in a longer race. Nothing has been added, and it's entirely possible the option of trying to save your tires, a huge strategy in longer online races, may no longer be an option, it if turns out to be true that tire wear is now mainly a function of distance driven, not how your drive.
 
praiano63
I was tuning yesterday my Alfa 8C competizione / 500PP / sport soft tires.
It was possible to do online or offline 4 laps at Nurburgring Nordschleife, at racing cruising speed , fast but safe, no late braking ,good line.....no excessive input on the wheel . 3 laps and a half without problems and the last half of the 4th lap taking care to not go out because less grip. More 5 second for the slower last lap. The tires indicator with 1/3 full only.

Today after 2.02, same car same settings same conditions, only 3 laps ,2 laps and a half without problems and the last half of the 3rd lap taking care to not go out because less grip. Same tires indicator with 1/3 full only.

So it means for me online and offline now is -25% tire's life less than yesterday.

The sound change a little. Wind noise together with speed.
Click to expand...

chuyler1
I don't fully agree. PD has added strategy to races on the super speedways while not changing anything for road courses. Nothing has been taken away, only added on certain tracks.

The info I'm hearing is that NASCAR racers are seeing the RH tires as the new standard while GT500 racers aren't seeing any difference aside from fewer laps.

With tire wear being different, we can enforce new rules in our online leagues. A requirement that a driver must use each type of tire during the race could make for some interesting finishes. Some drivers will choose to start on different tires and will run a different number of laps on each tire. You really won't be able to predict what the best combo is ahead of time for each track. There is a variability now that forces new strategy across the board. Did PD get this right? No. Did they at least make an improvement? Yes.
Click to expand...

Yes it change something for road courses yes ,+- 25% less with sport soft .
 
I suspect more attention will be paid to HP, torque curves, Toe and camber.💡 Also, perhaps PD fitted tires more to cars that "should be using them".

Street cars use street tires. Racing cars use racing tires. 'Tuned' cars drifters or time attack use tires that work best for the mission of the car.:cool:

What tires should be put on a full tuned Viper ACR? In fact what tires do these come with from factory? And are performance specs based on using those tires? The ACR is a Club Racer, so why (other than cursing) would you use anything else than R1, R2 or R3?:odd: :confused:

With a potential of 1000HP, racing soft would be dead in less than a lap especially with a less skilled driver at the wheel.:mischievous: Perhaps racing soft is for hot laps or at best one lap sprint races.:eek: Especially at the "Green Hell Ring":nervous:

It’s all a guess until it’s somehow proven to the community and tuners.:bowdown:

I think PD may be pushing tire performance more toward real and practical.👍
 
Great post Blood. One point to add is that a Bugatti Veyron's tires will only last about 15 minutes when it runs at top speed...but the gas tank will empty in 12 minutes. You obviously arent going to use a tire like that in the 24 hours of Le Mans.

The game gives you 9 types of tires, but in the real world there are hundreds of types, even when you just consider performance tires. The tires used at Le Mans are different than the tires used at the Daytona 500. Now that tire wear actually works, people are starting to question whether 9 types are enough to cover the needs of everyone. For this to be a real driving sim, the answer is no. Tire wear and tire grip for every tire type should be customizable so online organizers can create competitive strategic races.
 
The tire wear change just means you have to...
1 tune your car to burn less rubber
2 save your tires like a real race driver (don't run your car on the edge of spinning, slow down a little)
3 learn to drive on something other than race soft tires (try race med or hard)

I would love to see a weak (old) / strong (new) setting for the tire wear.
 

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