Toyota Pirius world record
- Thread starter palik
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- 4,805
130.794 MPH Be right back with my source and the press release.
*EDIT* Ok done with lunch.
My turn.
PRIUS SETS LAND SPEED RECORD FOR HYBRIDS
The lean, green Toyota Prius has swapped Sunset Boulevard and the Hollywood Hills for the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah to set a new world land speed record for hybrid powered cars. The record setting car will be displayed at the Detroit Motor Show in early January 2005.
The green meanie set the mark at 130.794 mph on the three-mile short course using a standard Hybrid Synergy Drive power-train a mixture of 1.5 litre petrol engine and an electric motor.
An engineering group from Toyota Motorsport in the USA prepared the car by changing the gear ratios (4.32:1 to 3.2:1) and increasing the inverter voltage from 500 to 550 volts. A transmission cooling system was added to decrease the temperature of the inverter and electric motor to maximise efficiency. Ambient temperature on the salt flats was nearly 100 degrees Fahrenheit with nearly 100 degrees humidity. Ice was added between runs to keep the system cool.
The interior of the car was stripped to save weight, a roll cage added for safety and the whole car lowered by five inches to improve the aerodynamics for this highly specialised record attempt. Even the 26 in front and 25 in rear tyres were made especially by Goodyear.
Toyota will display the Land Speed Prius at the 2005 North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
Prius also holds the record as the first hybrid powered car to compete in and finish an FIA-sanctioned event when it ran in the 5,000 mile Midnight Sun to Red Sea Rally in 2002.
Prius is the European Car of the Year 2005.
Land Speed Prius Specifications
ENGINE
Petrol engine: 1.5-litre, 4-cylinder, twin-cam, DOHC 16-valve EFI with VVT-i, aluminium-alloy block and head
Torque: 97 lb.ft. @ 4,200 rpm
Horsepower: 96 hp @ 5,800 rpm
ELECTRIC MOTOR/GENERATOR/POWER STORAGE
Motor Type: Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor
Electric Motor Power Output: 50kW/1,200 1,540 rpm
Torque: 295 lb.ft. @ 1-1,200rpm
Battery type: Nickel-metal hydride
System voltage: 550 volts maximum
SUSPENSION
Front independent MacPherson strut suspension with stabiliser bar, Eibach Racing coil springs, Bilstein shock absorbers
Rear torsion beam with stabiliser bar, Eibach Racing coil springs, Bilstein shock absorbers
Tyres: 25 and 26-inch Goodyear Eagle Land Speed Record tyres.
My source - http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10840
If you want pictures then just ask and I will post some.
*EDIT* Ok done with lunch.
My turn.
PRIUS SETS LAND SPEED RECORD FOR HYBRIDS
The lean, green Toyota Prius has swapped Sunset Boulevard and the Hollywood Hills for the Bonneville Salt Flats in Utah to set a new world land speed record for hybrid powered cars. The record setting car will be displayed at the Detroit Motor Show in early January 2005.
The green meanie set the mark at 130.794 mph on the three-mile short course using a standard Hybrid Synergy Drive power-train a mixture of 1.5 litre petrol engine and an electric motor.
An engineering group from Toyota Motorsport in the USA prepared the car by changing the gear ratios (4.32:1 to 3.2:1) and increasing the inverter voltage from 500 to 550 volts. A transmission cooling system was added to decrease the temperature of the inverter and electric motor to maximise efficiency. Ambient temperature on the salt flats was nearly 100 degrees Fahrenheit with nearly 100 degrees humidity. Ice was added between runs to keep the system cool.
The interior of the car was stripped to save weight, a roll cage added for safety and the whole car lowered by five inches to improve the aerodynamics for this highly specialised record attempt. Even the 26 in front and 25 in rear tyres were made especially by Goodyear.
Toyota will display the Land Speed Prius at the 2005 North American International Auto Show in Detroit.
Prius also holds the record as the first hybrid powered car to compete in and finish an FIA-sanctioned event when it ran in the 5,000 mile Midnight Sun to Red Sea Rally in 2002.
Prius is the European Car of the Year 2005.
Land Speed Prius Specifications
ENGINE
Petrol engine: 1.5-litre, 4-cylinder, twin-cam, DOHC 16-valve EFI with VVT-i, aluminium-alloy block and head
Torque: 97 lb.ft. @ 4,200 rpm
Horsepower: 96 hp @ 5,800 rpm
ELECTRIC MOTOR/GENERATOR/POWER STORAGE
Motor Type: Permanent Magnet Synchronous Motor
Electric Motor Power Output: 50kW/1,200 1,540 rpm
Torque: 295 lb.ft. @ 1-1,200rpm
Battery type: Nickel-metal hydride
System voltage: 550 volts maximum
SUSPENSION
Front independent MacPherson strut suspension with stabiliser bar, Eibach Racing coil springs, Bilstein shock absorbers
Rear torsion beam with stabiliser bar, Eibach Racing coil springs, Bilstein shock absorbers
Tyres: 25 and 26-inch Goodyear Eagle Land Speed Record tyres.
My source - http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10840
If you want pictures then just ask and I will post some.
- 4,805
CosmicOh , come on
You cant handle the truth!
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
He's baaack. *blurry tv screen in background*
What do you have against Toyotas? Or the prius for that matter? There was a cab driver in Vancouver and drove one for 400,000km's and never had a single problem with it. Toyota was so impressed they gave him another one for free. Now that's:
-reliability
-customer service
-AMAZING
What do you have against Toyotas? Or the prius for that matter? There was a cab driver in Vancouver and drove one for 400,000km's and never had a single problem with it. Toyota was so impressed they gave him another one for free. Now that's:
-reliability
-customer service
-AMAZING
PublicSecrecy
Back and with no warning, though he's promised the moderators to keep it cleaner - which makes holding back asking the following question in a harsher manner all the more difficult.
A cab driver in Vancouver drove a Prius 400,000km?
The Prius is one of the five worst cars in my lifetime.
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
Why? Sure it looks retarded, and its kind of small....but it's undoubtedly one of the most reliable cars I can think of. As are most Toyota and Lexus'.
- 4,680
Unfortunately, reliability is one of Toyota's only strong points. Their cars are about as exciting as white bread.
And the Prius is useless. It has an electric motor. Whoop-de-do. That's it's only good thing. Otherwise, it's too small to be very practical, it handles like a car on ice due to the low grip of it's eco-tires, and a decent diesel powered car will get slightly worse fuel mileage, but without sacrificing practicality and having to pay a huge price tag.
And the Prius is useless. It has an electric motor. Whoop-de-do. That's it's only good thing. Otherwise, it's too small to be very practical, it handles like a car on ice due to the low grip of it's eco-tires, and a decent diesel powered car will get slightly worse fuel mileage, but without sacrificing practicality and having to pay a huge price tag.
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
👍 All I need to know. I like the camry though.
PublicSecrecy
So you're going to stand by the statement that a cab driver drove a Prius 400,000km?
Okay. I'm going to lay out for you why the Toyota Prius is one of the worst cars in automotive history.
A Toyota Prius starts at $20300. A Toyota Corolla starts at $13700. That's the old $6600 price difference. So you're saying: sure, but the Prius makes it up in fuel savings! Okay. Let's pretend gasoline costs $1.80 a gallon, and let's pretend the Toyota Prius gets 57.5mpg while the Toyota Corolla with standard 5-speed manual gets 36.5mpg. Actually I'm not pretending on those fuel economy figures, they're from the EPA.
Now, let's also pretend you drive 11,000 miles a year. With a Toyota Prius, you'd use 191.3 gallons of gasoline each year. With a Toyota Corolla, you'd use 301.4 gallons of gasoline each year. That makes the Prius's yearly gasoline cost $344.34, which is kind of a cool number. Meanwhile, the Corolla's yearly gasoline cost would be $542.52. That makes the yearly difference between the two $198.18. Agreed? Good. That means the Prius makes up $198.18 of the $6600 price difference each year. Which means in around April of the 33rd year, the Prius does indeed become the better value. That's right: it takes 33 years for the Prius's "fuel savings" to make it a better value than a Corolla.
So you're saying, sure - but the Prius is better in other areas. Standard features, for instance. For this comparison I'm going to use the Toyota Corolla LE (which is slightly more expensive than the Corolla CE, used above - in fact, it would take the Prius just 27 years to become a better value than the Corolla LE). The Corolla LE starts at $14900; the Prius still starts at $20300. The Prius has several features that the Corolla does not - traction control, anti-lock brakes, automatic climate control, heated mirrors, and alloy wheels. Meanwhile, the Corolla LE has several features the Prius does not: daytime running lights, a tire-pressure monitor and remote trunk and fuel door releases. So let's add the features the Corolla is missing - $390 gives it traction control and ABS, another $390 gives it alloys. Automatic climate control and heated mirrors are unavailable - so for $15700 the Corolla now has the same spec as the Prius (minus automatic climate control and heated mirrors, but plus DRLs, a tire-pressure monitor, and remote trunk and fuel door releases). Assuming the pluses and minuses cancel out, the Corolla's now still $4600 cheaper and with the same spec.
In fact, you could add every single option to the Corolla LE - in-dash 6-disc CD changer ($200), the Leather Package ($900), the Moon Roof/Side Airbags Package ($1400), ABS ($390), and alloy wheels ($390) and still top out at $18200. It's still $2100 cheaper than a Prius (10 years) and now has a 6-disc CD changer, leather upholstery and steering wheel, a power sunroof, front side and side curtain airbags, ABS, and alloy wheels; the Prius only has those last two standard.
Icing on the cake: the Corolla has 54 more horsepower than the Prius and does 0-60 a full second faster with an automatic (1.7sec with a manual). Furthermore, the Prius and Corolla have the same front and rear head room.
So to sum up: a base Corolla is $6600 cheaper than a Prius, meaning it would take 33 years for a Prius to recoup fuel savings over a base Corolla or 27 years over a Corolla LE ($5400 cheaper); spec is the same while the Corolla is still $4600 cheaper and even a fully-optioned Corolla is $2100 cheaper with way more stuff, the Corolla is quicker, the Corolla handles better, the Corolla has more power, and interior headroom dimensions are the same.
Hence the Prius is trash.
The entire Toyota/Lexus lineup is trash to me with the following exceptions:
- Toyota Camry SE V6
- Toyota Matrix Standard or XR
- Toyota Solara V6
- Toyota Tacoma V6
EDIT: Oh, by the way - the entire Prius comparison does not take into account its hybrid motor's battery, which lasts eight to ten years. In the US, Toyota covers their first battery under warranty, but otherwise, it costs $3000 every eight years after the first one. Accounting for the cost of the battery, I don't believe the Prius ever becomes a better dollar value than the Corolla. EVER
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
REFER TO ABOVE POST. Or do you not comprehend the meaning of "all I needed to hear." ?? Ev0 made it perfectly clear.
Note: Prius is for the environmentalists, not the penny-pinchers.
Note: Prius is for the environmentalists, not the penny-pinchers.
- 1,267
And they're ugly too!
BTW the Tundra V6 TRD is pretty sweet.
BTW the Tundra V6 TRD is pretty sweet.
PublicSecrecy
(Banned)
- 1,488
They were impressed how many km's went on it without a single problem, so they gave him one for free. Don't ask me, Toyota did it. That part about all i needed to hear is what I was referring to, showing that I had dismissed the need for further explanation.
[Edit] What's ugly? The Prius or all of Toyota? Toyota isn't supposed to have huge ugly fenders and crests and flares and all that American bullcrap pal. toyota's are reserved and practical, while retaining the look of elegence. [Edit]
[Edit] What's ugly? The Prius or all of Toyota? Toyota isn't supposed to have huge ugly fenders and crests and flares and all that American bullcrap pal. toyota's are reserved and practical, while retaining the look of elegence. [Edit]
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- 509
M5.... honest to God... get off your high horse.
Yes, the Prius doesn't even pay for itself. It is however a larger car than a Corolla, runs quieter, and is unique. Its not a car to buy to save money, its a car to buy to have lower emissions. That, and you do have to make fewer stops for gas... and companies have found that gas tank sizes have been complained about, hence why Honda increased tank sizes on mnay of their cars.
Now, for anyone like me that is interested in Hybrid performance, seeing this is a good sign that peopel are starting to play it more and more. The performance potential for a hybrid car is amazing. 400 ft/lbs of torque.. on command, would be insane.
I can also easily see a Taxi driving 80,000 miles a year... I drove 30,000 a year just doing regular stuff, and if it was my job... well, yeah.
Yes, the Prius doesn't even pay for itself. It is however a larger car than a Corolla, runs quieter, and is unique. Its not a car to buy to save money, its a car to buy to have lower emissions. That, and you do have to make fewer stops for gas... and companies have found that gas tank sizes have been complained about, hence why Honda increased tank sizes on mnay of their cars.
Now, for anyone like me that is interested in Hybrid performance, seeing this is a good sign that peopel are starting to play it more and more. The performance potential for a hybrid car is amazing. 400 ft/lbs of torque.. on command, would be insane.
I can also easily see a Taxi driving 80,000 miles a year... I drove 30,000 a year just doing regular stuff, and if it was my job... well, yeah.
Azuremen
I'll take this as a direct challenge and reply accordingly.
Okay Kent?
So it's quieter... and "unique"... so it's worth $6600? Maybe to you, but not to those with logic.
Clearly. Frankly I have no problem with cash-overflowing liberals buying the vehicle to make a statement, but they should at least know the statement they're making: I'm a whale-saver with no concept of dollar value and I also have no idea what a turbodiesel is. I also find Prius drivers to be the third-worst drivers there are, directly following Super Duty Ford F drivers and Toyota Tundra drivers.
Either way, the question was posed to me: what do you have against the Prius? I answered a direct question, politely, and with facts and statistics (and some really cool argument about years). You, still brimming with disgust, came in here and brought a discussion from a different thread into this one with what I will call a personal insult. That's a forum no-no on multiple grounds.
Granted, you have used the terms 'unique' and 'quieter' in your rebuttal, so maybe I should just bow out now?
That's a good point. So now we're going to play a game. It's called "Guess which vehicle has the smallest gas tank on the North American market." Since this isn't AIM, I'll guess for you.
You: Volvo S80 T6 Premier.
Me: No.
You: Volvo S80 T6.
Me: No.
You: Volvo S80 2.5T.
Me: AWD or FWD?
You: AWD.
Me: No.
You: FWD?
Me: No.
You: Volvo S80 2.5T with Dynamic Stability Control?
Me: No.
You: Toyota Prius?
Me: CORRECT!!!!
Good guesses.
Indeed, the Toyota Prius's gas tank is about the size of my fist (or twelve gallon-sized milk jugs - either one) so its range isn't that much longer than Corolla, but it's still pretty long (684mi; Corolla's like 500), I'm going to be perfectly honest.
Surprised you didn't guess V70. I would've.
Yeah, but if you drove a Prius, you'd probably only drive 5000 miles before you'd shoot yourself. Well, I would anyway.
Actually it's a Prius so no guns, but I'd definitely kill myself in a way that wouldn't harm the environment or mess up a Democrat's chances at getting elected into any office. Like, I wouldn't kill myself in a Mondale-Ferraro shirt or anything.
God I wish I had a Mondale-Ferraro shirt.
I wonder if they even made a shirt considering that they didn't have a chance. I mean, they didn't even carry Hawaii for God's sake. They'll go down in history as the only Democrats never to carry Hawaii, I promise this. Speaking of not having a chance, I don't even remember who Michael Dukakis's running mate was in 1988. How pathetic is that?
EDIT: I just checked. No wonder Dukakis didn't win in 1988. Can you even fit "Dukakis/Bentsen '88" on a sign? Certainly not any sign of anything other than biblical proportions. For Christ's sake, the two of their names together were thirteen syllables!
- 4,680
Keep in mind that being quiet is a double edged sword. Sure, you cut down on noise pollution, but that also means pedestrians are much less aware of your presence. Fortunately though, the Prius is so damn slow, anyone other than an 82 year old woman should be able to run faster than it.Azuremen
And it may look bigger than a Corolla, but that extra space didn't go towards the trunk or the passenger compartment. Seeing 4 full sized adults cram into a Prius is truly a sight to behold.
- 2,093
European car of the year it said, M5Power. In the Netherlands, we literally pay twice as much for fuel as you do. We have smaller cars in general (To us, the Prius is a large car), fuller roads, more traffic jams, more traffic per square mile.
If you know anything about logic, you know nothing about people, or the reasons they buy a car. Why on earth do people like Ferraris? Or buy SUVs? What's the point of driving a Smart? Why don't some people take a bicycle for a 2 mile drive to get milk from the supermarket? Really, you're so proud of your little bit of math, but you're incredibly narrow minded.
You reveal yourself for who you are quite clearly though here:
"Clearly. Frankly I have no problem with cash-overflowing liberals buying the vehicle to make a statement, but they should at least know the statement they're making: I'm a whale-saver with no concept of dollar value and I also have no idea what a turbodiesel is. I also find Prius drivers to be the third-worst drivers there are, directly following Super Duty Ford F drivers and Toyota Tundra drivers. "
Modern Turbo Diesels are great but they're running on limited resources. The Prius is in all respects a Hybrid.
If you know anything about logic, you know nothing about people, or the reasons they buy a car. Why on earth do people like Ferraris? Or buy SUVs? What's the point of driving a Smart? Why don't some people take a bicycle for a 2 mile drive to get milk from the supermarket? Really, you're so proud of your little bit of math, but you're incredibly narrow minded.
You reveal yourself for who you are quite clearly though here:
"Clearly. Frankly I have no problem with cash-overflowing liberals buying the vehicle to make a statement, but they should at least know the statement they're making: I'm a whale-saver with no concept of dollar value and I also have no idea what a turbodiesel is. I also find Prius drivers to be the third-worst drivers there are, directly following Super Duty Ford F drivers and Toyota Tundra drivers. "
Modern Turbo Diesels are great but they're running on limited resources. The Prius is in all respects a Hybrid.
gt3 drifter
(Banned)
- 200
the prius is so slow a child could run out on the road to get a ball, grow to puberty and he still wouldnt have been hit - jeremy clarksonEv0
- 17,865
- 509
M5... I didn't say the Prius had a large tank, just that it has improved range.
Also, I was not bringing in the previous thread... I was simply stating that you always seem to prove everyone but yourself wrong. Just realize that because other people don't think exactly like how you do that it makes them wrong.
Logic has little to do with buying a car. If everyone wanted to be logical, they would all buy cars like a 4 cylinder Camry or what not, with decent milage, space, reliablity and so on. But people don't do things according to your so called "logic." And not everyone that wants on is a liberal nut job. Hell, they could drill in Alaska for all I care - its still a neat car in my opinion. I typically drive sports coupes, race around, and all that. But the Prius is still interesting to me.
And your rant about politics completely proves how amazingly narrow minded you actually are.
Also, I am not Kent, and I am not Kent's lackey. I simply find you attitude offensive and a degrading to the forum.
Also, I was not bringing in the previous thread... I was simply stating that you always seem to prove everyone but yourself wrong. Just realize that because other people don't think exactly like how you do that it makes them wrong.
Logic has little to do with buying a car. If everyone wanted to be logical, they would all buy cars like a 4 cylinder Camry or what not, with decent milage, space, reliablity and so on. But people don't do things according to your so called "logic." And not everyone that wants on is a liberal nut job. Hell, they could drill in Alaska for all I care - its still a neat car in my opinion. I typically drive sports coupes, race around, and all that. But the Prius is still interesting to me.
And your rant about politics completely proves how amazingly narrow minded you actually are.
Also, I am not Kent, and I am not Kent's lackey. I simply find you attitude offensive and a degrading to the forum.
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gt3 drifter
He's annoying sometimes, but he really is funny!
Arwin
Agree fully - the Prius is huge (in size) in Europe. Not to mention that its fuel economy there isn't anything to smile about. In fact, I'll make a list of European cars with better fuel economy than the Toyota Prius or the same fuel economy as the Toyota Prius:
- Audi A2 TDi
- Citroen C2 HDi
- Citroen C2 HDi SensoDrive
- Citroen C3 HDi
- Citroen C3 HDi 16V
- Fiat Punto 1.3 3-door
- Fiat Punto 1.5 5-door
- Ford Fiesta TDCi 3-door
- Ford Fiesta TDCi 5-door
- Honda Insight
- Mazda 2 1.4D
- Mitsubishi Colt Di-D
- Peugeot 206 HDi 3-door
- Peugeot 206 HDi 5-door
- Peugeot 206 SW HDi
- Peugeot 307 HDi
- Peugeot 307 HDi Estate
- Renault Clio dCi 65 3-door
- Renault Clio dCi 80 3-door
- Renault Clio dCi 65 5-door
- Renault Clio dCi 80 5-door
- Renault Clio dCi 100 5-door
- Renault Modus dCi 65
- Renault Modus dCi 80
- Renault Megane dCi 3-door
- Renault Megane dCi 5-door
- Seat Arosa TDi
- Toyota Yaris D-4D 3-door
- Toyota Yaris D-4D 5-door
- Vauxhall Corsa Di 3-door
- Vauxhall Corsa Di 5-door
- Vauxhall Corsa Di 16V 5-door
- Volkswagen Lupo TDi
- Volkswagen Lupo SDI
- Volkswagen Polo TDi 3-door
- Volkswagen Polo TDi 5-door
- Volkswagen Polo TDi Dune
None of those vehicles are within $5000 of a Prius's price, either.
Uh...
Could you clarify what this means?
Uh...
Could you clarify what this means?
So modern turbodiesels - which, as noted above, get the same or better mileage in relation to a Prius - are running on limited resources, but the Prius isn't? How the hell did you reach that conclusion? A Prius runs on gasoline, believe it or not, just like every other car out there. If you wanted to save fuel truthfully, you'd get an Insight. If you wanted to make a statement you'd get a Prius. If you wanted to be intelligent, you'd get a turbodiesel.
Azuremen
Actually you said 'gas tank' twice in your statement and said nothing about range.
I'm still waiting for someone to come in here with a fact showing me the Prius is anything other than a load of trash. You I believe mentioned 'quieter' and 'unique' which isn't fact. I don't even think the second one is true - up here, you can't get a Prius; the other day I saw one with a paper dealer plate from Culver City, California and a temporary tag from Michigan, because waiting lists are months up here whereas SoCal has a surplus of the things because the culture down there loves hybrids. Doesn't sound too unique to me.
You have no idea what the logic I use consists of if you think a 4-cylinder Camry is a good car. Perhaps it's good in your logic - in my logic it's one of the worst midsize cars on the market. In fact, the Toyota Camry XLE 4-cylinder might be one of few non-hybrid vehicles which are a worse value than the Toyota Prius.
The Toyota Camry SE V6 - there's a different story.
Furthermore, I never said the Prius wasn't interesting. I love the idea. The Insight is a true hybrid car, the Civic Hybrid is a good car, the Accord Hybrid is a great car, and I love the Escape Hybrid. The Prius is a completely different story. Yes, the idea's neat, the idea's interesting. That doesn't mean the vehicle itself is any good.
And yes - everyone who wants a Prius is a liberal nut job. Dukakis-Bentsen!
It does? Because my 'rant' about politics is only there to lighten the mood in this thread where you can't seem to get past petty insults like my 'so-called logic' and my 'high horse.'
Mondale-Ferraro!
Do you realise that I've once again presented nothing but facts and statistics and have asked you and Arwin to clarify your, um, interesting arguments, whereas you came in here, have insulted me three times, and have used not one, not two, not five, but ZERO facts. Except 'quieter' and 'unique' which I'm loving?
Clinton-Gore!
If you think my attitude is offensive, then I guess you'd rather have people who post vague adjectives to try to explain why one vehicle costs $6600 more than another, better car.
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M5Power
I think you're being selective now. The Prius has a better mileage even than a Smart 2-4, in the city. Especially in the city and in slow traffic it scores a better mileage than most cars. The cars you post below are not compareable, the Prius is bigger than a Volkswagen Golf on the inside and on the outside. Comparing a Lupo to a Prius is laughable, but even so the Prius performs equal in city traffic, which still is impressive. Not to mention that Diesel engines have recently been shown to pollute in a way that is particularly hazardous to people.
None of those vehicles are within $5000 of a Prius's price, either.
It means that the reasons you give aren't necessarily the typical reasons for buying a car. I understand that you give them though, because you might think that people buy a Prius for that reason. But you understand this, I don't have to explain because you've already shown you do in the post above. And you do have a point.
Uh...
Could you clarify what this means?
... as noted above, weak comparisons because much smaller cars ...
It's a car symbolising for many the transition. Although it runs on gasoline, the heart of the car is its electric engine, which is fed by the fuel engine. Wasted energy, like that resulting from braking, gets redeemed in the battery. It doesn't run when you stand still. It doesn't run when you don't accellerate. We know the advantages anyway.
Or if you like the mix of fuel economy, space, and amazing efficiency in cities. Over here driving to and from the highway is mostly 50km/h, sometimes 60km/h max with a lot of stopping and accellerating.
If you wanted to be off cheap, you'd get a turbodiesel. That's the main reason they exist at this moment. I do believe they will eventually beat the gas engine.
It's the fact that you call it a load of trash that loses you your credibilty with many. You've got most of your figures straight, but you go overboard with them. You color them politically. I can see through that, but just barely. I think we agree more than we disagree, but you have to go overboard and call everyone a whale loving liberal. Over here in Europe, the majority of people will still reject the Prius, purely because it doesn't come in manual. We all drive manual, and are reluctant to change to auto for the simple reason that we think it's outright boring.
I'd like to hear, in numbers, why you like the other hybrids. You might still convince me.
You truly really don't want to go there.I appreciate your intent, but it's just not convincing - or rather, too convincing. It's like the Austrian philosopher who wrote a sarcastic piece on how the jews were to blame for everything and to his horror found most of uppity Austria taking him seriously to the extent that he became their personal hero. I reckon I don't need to clarify what I'm getting at here.
I appreciate your number approach though, but it will only ever work if you don't let your personality block the view to them.
A.
Arwin
That's fair - though Smart offers no diesels.
Say what you will about diesel emissions but they're legal so I'm not too concerned. Compared to the Prius, which is large for European streets (that was my point) the Lupo can be ordered with slightly worse performance and considerably more stuff. Same deal with the Polo. I realise the Prius presents a large vehicle that gets small vehicle gas mileage in Europe, but it costs as much as a V5 Passat or a top-spec Primera, which is pretty absurd. The mileage on that Primera's nothing to laugh at either - 46.3mpg, starts at 15100 GBP, 2000 GBP cheaper than the Prius.
You mean Prius vs. Corolla?
In the US no-one looks at the Prius as anything other than a small, and Toyota has never put it in a direct comparison with anything because they know it'd easily lose. So we make our own guesses. In the US, a Corolla sedan is three inches longer than a Prius anyway, so they're very class-competitive.
Not to mention super-high prices.
The Prius seems to make slightly more sense in Europe by mixing large-car space with small-car fuel economy, but in the US it's nothing more than a statement made by the ill-informed. I'll be perfectly honest with you: I'm the whale-loving liberal that the Prius's target market should be.
Unfortunately for Toyota, I'm too intelligent to see through the thing's awful value - as is anyone not blinded by some love for the environment. Can we both agree that if someone really wanted to maximize fuel economy they'd get a Honda Insight? Nevertheless - as I said it may make slightly more sense in Europe. In the US, it is a load of trash. One 2890-pound load.
Well, it's easy to like the Insight. If someone REALLY loved the environment enough to want to get all the mileage they possibly could from a car, it's the Insight. It's got all the essentials standard - ABS, power mirrors, windows, and locks, keyless entry, CD, alloy wheels; air-con's a $800 option (though one I wouldn't take). And it's cheap enough now to still be a legitimate urban commuter car for someone who doesn't need heated this and automatic that but still has enough cash and enough guilt.
Escape Hybrid is a 30mpg SUV. I have NO IDEA how Ford makes a profit off these things because they're charging a base of $28000 including AWD; $26400 without, which is actually encroaching on the territory of top-spec models with a V6. I'd hate it if performance suffered dramatically - but I've heard from multiple sources that 0-60 comes in 9.5 seconds, making it a second slower than the V6 - and at least two seconds QUICKER than the standard four! Meaning the price premium isn't that big, performance barely suffers, and fuel economy is hugely boosted - plus you keep SUV practicality and styling.
Civic Hybrid is a Prius Hybrid except with subtlety. Smart people and owners know 51mpg is being had, whereas casual observers think it's a Civic. It's stocked with stuff and once again performance barely suffers off a normal Civic - and pricing is absolutely great considering spec. And unlike the Prius, it doesn't make a "look at me, I'm saving the environment" statement. Frankly, it gets the job done without being obnoxious. The sole problem I have with the Civic Hybrid ($19800) is that fuel economy isn't that much better than the Civic HX ($14900 w/CVT), which popularized the continuously-variable automatic transmission on the US market. Nevertheless, the huge gains in spec and minor gains in fuel economy over the HX do indeed justify it to me.
Accord Hybrid just kicks ass. It's quicker than an Accord V6 and not much more expensive, but it gets significantly better fuel economy. Not that much better fuel economy, mind you, but it's not that much more expensive. I could see myself owning an Accord Hybrid.
You truly really don't want to go there.
Clinton-Gore!
