Toyota Supra (A90)

[mustafur]

Is the B58 an Iron block?

All the info I have seen about it seems to skip the details on it.

 

[05XR8]

Is the B58 an Iron block?

All the info I have seen about it seems to skip the details on it.

The N54/55 uses cast iron cylinder sleeve, but B58 is different: it uses one latest technology called “Electric Arc Wire Spraying”. This is a type of the ferrum plasma spray method, which creates a thin layer (0.3 mm thick) of iron on the cylinder wall surface and thus eliminates the need for using the cylinder sleeves. The ultimate goal is to save weight. For your reference: plasma spray is an exotic technique previously (for example GT-R, LFA etc.), however nowadays its cost is lowered so significantly that even Ford uses it in the EcoBoost engine family.

http://youwheel.com/home/2016/03/27/detailed-analysis-the-bmw-b58-inline-6-cylinder-engine/

 

[mustafur]

That engine should well compable of over 1000hp on that block, just depends how the American Aftermarket scene will pick it up.

 

[05XR8]

That engine should well compable of over 1000hp on that block, just depends how the American Aftermarket scene will pick it up.

I skipped past a blog or BMW forum or something, where someone was saying that engine won't be good to tune. As it won't make lots of power. Maybe it was the engine before or that person mentioned the B58 in the same breath. Guess I have to search again.

Edit:
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/bmws-new-b58-engine-wont-be-a-tuners-delight-99845.html

Yeah, I'll still wait and see what Top Secret and all the rest do to this engine.

 

[mustafur]

Forget Top secret, when it came to the last Supra backyard American builders where making way more power lol.

 

[05XR8]

We'll probably see a drift A90 before a properly tuned street car.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

I wonder if these guys are planning on getting their hands on the A90: https://arsenalmotorsports.com/products/bmw-b58-s-1000.html

 

[queleuleu]

Sad but true. I'm not saying the FT1 is perfect but one thing for sure: the proportions of the new supra are wrong.

 

[McLaren]

That’s more like ordering a king size bed and getting a full size instead. Everything is there, it’s just smaller. You can see they kept as much of the styling cue as possible.

Looking from that angle and comparing the two, that concept’s retractable spoiler really helped build the expectations of a supercar righter.

 

[Outspacer]

I'd say that nearly every design element of the FT1 was confident and had a sense of purpose, whereas the Supra looks like they took something much more mundane and merely tacked on styling cues from the FT1 (rather than it being an evolution of the FT1 for production). I think it might've been better if they had kept it more mundane!

 

[Supaboost]

That’s more like ordering a king size bed and getting a full size instead. Everything is there, it’s just smaller. You can see they kept as much of the styling cue as possible.

Looking from that angle and comparing the two, that concept’s retractable spoiler really helped build the expectations of a supercar righter.

No its nothing like that.

its kin to ordering a steak but getting a vegan burger patty.

I'd say that nearly every design element of the FT1 was confident and had a sense of purpose, whereas the Supra looks like they took something much more mundane and merely tacked on styling cues from the FT1 (rather than it being an evolution of the FT1 for production). I think it might've been better if they had kept it more mundane!

Its bad badge engineering onto a too small a chassis to make the Ft1 proportions work.

 

[McLaren]

No its nothing like that.

its kin to ordering a steak but getting a vegan burger patty.

Should be quite clear I’m referring to the design since the post was referencing proportions.

But you’re wrong again and no one’s surprised.

 

[Supaboost]

Should be quite clear I’m referring to the design since the post was referencing proportions.

But you’re wrong again and no one’s surprised.

Nothing carries over design language like fake vents.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

That’s more like ordering a king size bed and getting a full size instead. Everything is there, it’s just smaller. You can see they kept as much of the styling cue as possible.

Looking from that angle and comparing the two, that concept’s retractable spoiler really helped build the expectations of a supercar righter.

I actually wonder about the dimensions between the two. Le Mans prototypes look enormous in pictures (within reason) because their proportions are so foreign. When you see one in person, you're like, oh that's the size of a Miata. I wonder if they are actually similar in size, it's just that the FT-1 is so much lower, that it looks like a bigger car generally because your mind is compensating/adjusting based on cars you see in the real world.

edit: I'm wrong. Just looked it up. The FT-1 is 10" longer, (almost all in the wheelbase, which is also 10" longer) and about 5" wider, and about 2" shorter.

 

[VXR]

They made the A90 like this to make it an achievable reality for as large a fan base as possible. Not fans of super power A80s who wouldn't add anything to Toyota's coffers when they couldn't afford a 100k junior supercar - which would be no more an A80 Supra than this one is in those eyes.

Toyota didn't need a GTR competitor. They have Lexus for that or are you suggesting the new Supra should have been on a par with an LFA? Why stop there, why isn't it putting out Veyron numbers from the factory? For 45k? Why not?!

 

[McLaren]

Nothing carries over design language like fake vents.

Oh my, what a travesty only Toyota has committed.

Guess it’s better than that cool looking engine in the concept that doesn’t actually make power....

 

[SlipZtrEm]

All these comparisons to the FT-1 has me wondering if people have never noticed concept cars that precede production models have exaggerated features...

Great excuse making, but who said they cant make a 40k Supra for those wanting the badge and more faster models all the way to a 100k GTR fighting beast

The bean-counters, probably.

Plenty people can easily afford it that would pay 100k for a real Supra that can duke it out with the GTR NSX or 911.

Er, no. If the Supra rang in at twice its upcoming price, less people would be able to afford it than now.

but unlike all the Toyota apologists i would not be against a cheapo version for the masses.

That's exactly what you're against, you're complaining this one isn't expensive and unobtainable enough.

It only works for the Stang Vett hell even 911.[/QUOTE]



The new 911 will start at over $100k. That's admittedly for the S, but considering the current basic 991.2 is $91k, I don't expect much change from 100 grand for the next one. The days of a five-figure new 911 are numbered.

You really should've bought a Challenger. Fits your obsession with horsepower and no understanding of any performance measures beyond 1320ft.

I mean, when we stop and think about it, I'm not sure why anybody ever questioned the A80 ownership. An obsession with horsepower and quarter mile times? It's a few shouts of "2JZ" away from the natural state!

 

[sparkytooth]

I thought we were old and cynical enough to realize that concept cars aren't usually representative of the final model of the car in question. I don't know what we expected really when we knew many years in advance what the Supra might be and with the 15000 leaks what it would actually turn out to be.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Possibly unpopular opinion, but what if we view the LFA as the proper "Supra" successor and this new Supra is a reboot of the Celica Supra going back to its RWD roots?

 

[CarGuru]

Possibly unpopular opinion, but what if we view the LFA as the proper "Supra" successor and this new Supra is a reboot of the Celica Supra going back to its RWD roots?

I thought about the celica supra part myself as well. The LC-F will be the "proper Supra" successor for this generation.

You also have to realize that knowing Toyota, they wouldn't like the idea of having an FT-1 sized GTR competitor and an LC-F on sale at the same time. They will most likely fear sales cannibalization from basically having two halo cars.

 

[Tornado]

Possibly unpopular opinion, but what if we view the LFA as the proper "Supra" successor and this new Supra is a reboot of the Celica Supra going back to its RWD roots?

That's been brought up a couple times, but it was pointed out that because the Supra was the fastest car in its segment for maybe four years of its ~25 year model history, you're actually just making excuses.

 

[McLaren]

The only thing the Supra & LFA have in common are Toyota and sky-rocketing values in the states.

 

[Grandea GTR]

Sorry, can't see the LFA as a proper supra successor... The only thing they have in common is....

....

...two doors.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You're telling me that the HP dick swinging wars going through the American Big Three right now isn't the only thing on the planet?!

That's quite loaded considering the only regions of manufacturing not doing this are Japan and South Korea.

 

[Beeblebrox237]

This may be a controversial opinion, but I think the best modern successor to the A80 Supra is the R35 GT-R. It's a reasonably affordable, reasonably robust platform that has been used very successfully for a wide range of modifications and is well documented to be able to make over 1000 bhp. It's a favourite for drag racing and when tuned can run with nearly anything in a straight line. It's usable on a daily basis in stock form but most of the modifications focus on power and acceleration rather than being focused on trackability or handling. The base price is roughly in line with the Supra's adjusted for inflation, and it's been aimed directly 911 Turbos, Corvettes, and other high performance sports cars.

 

[Ande3200]

Its really is a shame that it Only has 335 hp. And the new supra should be the ft1 concept. But instead the go for an BMW z4 many people are disapointed in this, so am i. Its just a shame in the supra name

 

[mustafur]

This may be a controversial opinion, but I think the best modern successor to the A80 Supra is the R35 GT-R. It's a reasonably affordable, reasonably robust platform that has been used very successfully for a wide range of modifications and is well documented to be able to make over 1000 bhp. It's a favourite for drag racing and when tuned can run with nearly anything in a straight line. It's usable on a daily basis in stock form but most of the modifications focus on power and acceleration rather than being focused on trackability or handling. The base price is roughly in line with the Supra's adjusted for inflation, and it's been aimed directly 911 Turbos, Corvettes, and other high performance sports cars.

The Thing is the RB26 in the R34 was also capable of over 1000hp(and is just as good as the 2J with the RB30 Block swap), Here in Australia RB GT-R builds are as common as 2J builds.

The 90s were a Wild time for Japanese cars, I mean you had Lancers and Imprezas that could beat M3s, that has all stagnated since.

 

[SDSPOWER01]

O.K. since this thread has turn out pretty weird I found this video on youtube in which this guy explains the comparisons between the 2JZ and the B58 engine... there are some nice details to hear from the video.


Please before jumping on me... I am not saying the B58 is better it is just the video title (clickbait)..

 

[Disco_Volante]

Here it is out in the wild with no camo or anything. I definitely like it now.

 

[McLaren]

This may be a controversial opinion, but I think the best modern successor to the A80 Supra is the R35 GT-R. It's a reasonably affordable, reasonably robust platform that has been used very successfully for a wide range of modifications and is well documented to be able to make over 1000 bhp. It's a favourite for drag racing and when tuned can run with nearly anything in a straight line. It's usable on a daily basis in stock form but most of the modifications focus on power and acceleration rather than being focused on trackability or handling. The base price is roughly in line with the Supra's adjusted for inflation, and it's been aimed directly 911 Turbos, Corvettes, and other high performance sports cars.

I agree with this up until the last few years. Once Nissan saw how widely loved the GTR became, they definitely kicked up the price. I believe it was around $72,000 when it first arrived, now they’re $100,000, $110,000, and $130,000. They’ve definitely cemented that car in the supercar ranks.