Traction control to go fast?

[Griffith500]

I think it's clear that removing aids increases the challenge, so extra rewards are fine - the game already does this according to the difficulty you select in a custom race, for instance.

It doesn't impact anyone's desire to play the game their way.


Gran Turismo has modeled torque vectoring for a while now, among other things. They may not be the exact algorithms and tunings used by the manufacturers, sure, but just have a think about what that actually entails - a full emulation of the hardware and software on the car, not just the physics. That maybe is a bit beyond a mere game, and certainly not something many manufacturers would consider co-operating with.

 

[Nastprez]

I saw a guy with TC on -1 how is that possible

 

[VanessaMagick]

I saw a guy with TC on -1 how is that possible

Sure that was his TC and not his brake balance?

 

[Nastprez]

Tc I'm positive. This guy is doing 1.27 on dragon trail.

 

[Inzyman]

I will change between 0 and 2 if I am having drama's with a particular corner, feeling the heat from behind or tyres are starting to die...

 

[UFg8oR]

I use 1-2. I watched a road course race this past weekend and they were discussing this very topic. They said that all of the drivers use TCS of some level. It prevents the car from becoming one with the wall. Using TCS doesnt mean you are a less skilled driver. It just helps under the emense power of the new engines. W/o it, in real life that is, the cars would be completely uncontrolable. I see players on youtube saying " turn off tcs. It makes you faster." I use anywhere between 1-2 and will hit times close to the ones they hit. It depends on if you drive the car right.

I dont believe that tcs makes a difference if you drive the car properly. I.E. know when to get in and out of the gas. With that being said, what truly affects your speed in game is manual or automatic transmission. That give you complete control over when, where and how much your power is delivered. If you drive with it on auto, you will be slower. I just transitioned to manual and it makes all the difference in the game. Remember, to use your turn signals, wear your seat belt and KEEP OFF THE GRASS. By grass i mean the turf.

 

[TonyJZX]

I always use TC0 as a carry over from past games and Forza.

Be that as it may, if the car is silly like the Tomahawks or its a Hellcat on super sports then yeah, TC1 might get a look in.

 

[CrazyKev420_]

I only use ABS in any racing game i play, and a lot i dont even use that (for the GT series i do though, cuz with it off its very easy to lock up, at least with a controller) haven't used assists since i was about 10yrs old. Im sure with some car and track combinations it would help, but basically its a pride thing for me at this point, lol
Assists are for wussies!!! LMAO

 

[Rowdy Burns]

TC off for me, I don't really care if its faster or not though. I find it more fun and rewarding with it off so that's how I roll.

 

[Cave]

TC 1-2 on start then 0. In some slow corners with fast exit i turn it in some cases to 1.

 

[Robben]

Hi All

i've always believed that driving without traction control is the fastest option , but have noticed alot of people racing with traction control on?

So I'm curious as to how many of you use traction control and do you feel you can go faster with it on?

Cheers folks

I use TC 2 on group 3. Off elsewhere. It definitely slows you down to have it switched on, you can feel (and see) the car bog down out of corners when TCS is active. However, I just cannot get back on the throttle without spinning out at any lower than 2.

 

[Khannie]

Aren't most real race cars and high performance road cars faster with traction control these days? Many appear to be made to drive optimally with advanced computer systems controlling a whole lot of things on the fly.

I haven't tested enough in the game with traction control off to have an opinion there yet.

I was watching the Pirelli Long Beach race like two weekends ago, and the announcer saw a Porsche going hot out of a corner and did mention that his TCS was kicking in. So yes - real race cars do have those assists.

But in GT Sport - I see that TCS goes on every time you shift, so I have to believe you are losing some hundredths of a second every time you shift with TCS on.

 

[Guffaluff]

When using the pad, I was using TC 1-3 on FR/MR cars, as I feel it's much harder to control the throttle. When using my G29 I always have everything off except ABS. It's the most fun I think, hence why I use that. Haven't tested if I'm faster with it on or not, and frankly don´t care because I'm having more fun with the wheel battling the cars

 

[GWJP RACING]

OFF completely, after all the tag in the game title says the real driving simulator.

 

[Sean Renon]

I use 1-2. I watched a road course race this past weekend and they were discussing this very topic. They said that all of the drivers use TCS of some level. It prevents the car from becoming one with the wall. Using TCS doesnt mean you are a less skilled driver. It just helps under the emense power of the new engines. W/o it, in real life that is, the cars would be completely uncontrolable. I see players on youtube saying " turn off tcs. It makes you faster." I use anywhere between 1-2 and will hit times close to the ones they hit. It depends on if you drive the car right.

I dont believe that tcs makes a difference if you drive the car properly. I.E. know when to get in and out of the gas. With that being said, what truly affects your speed in game is manual or automatic transmission. That give you complete control over when, where and how much your power is delivered. If you drive with it on auto, you will be slower. I just transitioned to manual and it makes all the difference in the game. Remember, to use your turn signals, wear your seat belt and KEEP OFF THE GRASS. By grass i mean the turf.

It's well known that the traction control in GT Sport is overly invasive. Even at the lowest settings, it saps far too much power.

In real life gt3 cars use traction control because the TC is not nearly as invasive and hardly slows you down.

It's kindve the opposite of ABS most real race cars don't use ABS because it's too invasive, whereas ABS in GT sport makes you faster.

iRacing is a good example. ABS is disabled but people use TC (and they're still very very fast)

 

[Grandea GTR]

Depending on the cars, it ranges from 0-3.

Gr.2, I always use TCS 1 to ensure a bit of stability when cornering and sometimes getting too careless.

 

[dfspires]

In the past, this was true. On GTS, traction control makes you go faster, which is a little bit of a shame. IMO the game should reward drivers that run without assists.

Not really. If you race on ds4, most of the time yes tc is faster, on wheel, it is different, because it kicks in on turns depending on how fast and how much you turn, on ds4 it kicks in much much less when turning. TC on wheel or ds4 are completely different beasts.

AND FOLKS, PAY ATTENTION
TC 5 is the fastest, the higher the number, it kicks out faster too after it kicks in (like when in a turn, it kicks in and the rear slides), the higher, the less it slides, but for it to work you go full throttle always and control with the steering, going as wide as possible on exit, it will kick in less times you get a better speed out of the turn. Go ahead and try, thank me later.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I use 1-2. I watched a road course race this past weekend and they were discussing this very topic. They said that all of the drivers use TCS of some level. It prevents the car from becoming one with the wall. Using TCS doesnt mean you are a less skilled driver. It just helps under the emense power of the new engines. W/o it, in real life that is, the cars would be completely uncontrolable. I see players on youtube saying " turn off tcs. It makes you faster." I use anywhere between 1-2 and will hit times close to the ones they hit. It depends on if you drive the car right.

I dont believe that tcs makes a difference if you drive the car properly. I.E. know when to get in and out of the gas. With that being said, what truly affects your speed in game is manual or automatic transmission. That give you complete control over when, where and how much your power is delivered. If you drive with it on auto, you will be slower. I just transitioned to manual and it makes all the difference in the game. Remember, to use your turn signals, wear your seat belt and KEEP OFF THE GRASS. By grass i mean the turf.

I've done a test (2 if you count the other one with all assists on instead of just TC 2) and I'm 3/10ths slower than my own time without TC on Dragon Trail. If you can modulate your throttle it's hardly invasive at all, but it still activates during upshifts, as well as most exits (although marginally) even though I'm not spinning out

Honestly though, if you can modulate your throttle enough for TC to barely kick in, you don't need to use it at all

 

[Stephen220378]

OFF completely, after all the tag in the game title says the real driving simulator.

If that's the case then you should be using traction control according to whether that car has it in real life, GT3 cars for example have traction control and if you want to "simulate" (in the loosest possible sense since it's GT) a GT3 car then traction control should always be on.

Anyway back to the OP, I turn it off because I feel like I'm quicker without it as it's always been the way I've played GT games, that may have changed with GT Sport according to some so Ill give TC a go and decide whether it's worth using it or not. In the end though GT is so forgiving when you start to lose grip that I've never felt the need to use it especially after playing a lot of Project Cars and Project Cars 2.

 

[HellzFire]

Not really. If you race on ds4, most of the time yes tc is faster, on wheel, it is different, because it kicks in on turns depending on how fast and how much you turn, on ds4 it kicks in much much less when turning. TC on wheel or ds4 are completely different beasts.

AND FOLKS, PAY ATTENTION
TC 5 is the fastest, the higher the number, it kicks out faster too after it kicks in (like when in a turn, it kicks in and the rear slides), the higher, the less it slides, but for it to work you go full throttle always and control with the steering, going as wide as possible on exit, it will kick in less times you get a better speed out of the turn. Go ahead and try, thank me later.

My post you quoted was made more than 6 months ago. The game has changed a lot since then, PD tweaked tcs a few times. TCS does not make you faster anymore. A lot of top drivers were using TCS back then, they dont do it now.

 

[CrazyKev420_]

If that's the case then you should be using traction control according to whether that car has it in real life, GT3 cars for example have traction control and if you want to "simulate" (in the loosest possible sense since it's GT) a GT3 car then traction control should always be on.

Anyway back to the OP, I turn it off because I feel like I'm quicker without it as it's always been the way I've played GT games, that may have changed with GT Sport according to some so Ill give TC a go and decide whether it's worth using it or not. In the end though GT is so forgiving when you start to lose grip that I've never felt the need to use it especially after playing a lot of Project Cars and Project Cars 2.

I remember in Project Cars that once your rear wheels stepped out, that's it, you're going around. Didn't matter if I countersteer, hit the gas or let off, it would just spin.
It was probably due to the fact I was using a controller. I recently got PC2 and its not as bad

 

[mthomas_95]

AND FOLKS, PAY ATTENTION
TC 5 is the fastest, the higher the number, it kicks out faster too after it kicks in (like when in a turn, it kicks in and the rear slides), the higher, the less it slides, but for it to work you go full throttle always and control with the steering, going as wide as possible on exit, it will kick in less times you get a better speed out of the turn. Go ahead and try, thank me later.

So if I turn my TC up from 0 to 5 on the pad I will totally annihilate everyone in the top 24 races instead of always being 4-6th? Wish I'd known earlier!

 

[Stephen220378]

I remember in Project Cars that once your rear wheels stepped out, that's it, you're going around. Didn't matter if I countersteer, hit the gas or let off, it would just spin.
It was probably due to the fact I was using a controller. I recently got PC2 and its not as bad

The first game was notoriously bad for it being extremely difficult to catch a car once it started sliding, it wasn't impossible but it felt like more luck than skill if you did, PC2 is much better but it's still miles harder than GT which to me feels like the game is doing most of the work for you despite the ASM or whatever it may be called in GT Sport being turned off.

 

[Griffith500]

If that's the case then you should be using traction control according to whether that car has it in real life, GT3 cars for example have traction control and if you want to "simulate" (in the loosest possible sense since it's GT) a GT3 car then traction control should always be on.

Anyway back to the OP, I turn it off because I feel like I'm quicker without it as it's always been the way I've played GT games, that may have changed with GT Sport according to some so Ill give TC a go and decide whether it's worth using it or not. In the end though GT is so forgiving when you start to lose grip that I've never felt the need to use it especially after playing a lot of Project Cars and Project Cars 2.

And which real world traction control system is the game simulating? Can it not be turned off in a real GT3 car?

The difference is that with traction control off, it is still as accurate a simulation as ever (physics), but with it on, it is only as accurate as the TC algorithm / scheme itself - as compared to the real thing. The same is true of all aids, including input filtering and force feedback.

 

[Stephen220378]

And which real world traction control system is the game simulating? Can it not be turned off in a real GT3 car?

The difference is that with traction control off, it is still as accurate a simulation as ever (physics), but with it on, it is only as accurate as the TC algorithm / scheme itself - as compared to the real thing. The same is true of all aids, including input filtering and force feedback.

It doesn't really matter which real world traction control system does it? If it's "simulating" a real world system which a car has, in this case TC then it's still closer to realism having absolutely nothing regardless of whether it's 100% accurate which knowing GT games it won't be.

I don't know whether you can physically switch it off in a GT3 car but I do know there's TC and ABS knobs on the steering wheel, whether this allows them to turn it off or it's just for adjusting the strength is anyone's guess. I can say with a great deal of confidence though that no driver does turn it off in a race as I've never heard any GT3 driver in interviews state they had turned it off at any time nor have I ever heard a GT3 commentator suggest that it was even an option to the drivers.

GT an accurate simulation? I'll have some of what you're smoking

 

[Venster]

TC is slower in some corners, especially fast ones for example through Kyoto fast S at the start, I tried it loads on and off when I was using DS4. Never match my time with TCS on vs OFF, you can see it flashing constantly through the corners and under no risk of spinning out. You lose at least 1-2 tenths through corners like these.

 

[Griffith500]

It doesn't really matter which real world traction control system does it? If it's "simulating" a real world system which a car has, in this case TC then it's still closer to realism having absolutely nothing regardless of whether it's 100% accurate which knowing GT games it won't be.

I don't know whether you can physically switch it off in a GT3 car but I do know there's TC and ABS knobs on the steering wheel, whether this allows them to turn it off or it's just for adjusting the strength is anyone's guess. I can say with a great deal of confidence though that no driver does turn it off in a race as I've never heard any GT3 driver in interviews state they had turned it off at any time nor have I ever heard a GT3 commentator suggest that it was even an option to the drivers.

GT an accurate simulation? I'll have some of what you're smoking

I'm simply talking about the matter of fact that simulating an overall system is only as "accurate" as its least accurate component. I'm not saying GT does use a real world TC system as a model. I expect it uses something which could never be created in reality.

It's a bit like all those people claiming using GT's ABS was / is fine because it's in most cars these days. Until it turned out (when the no ABS option first appeared) it was the sole reason GT's handling was (still is) numb and prone to understeer, simply because it was nothing like real ABS.

Another interesting point of comparison is the difference between BSB and WSBK, where TC is allowed in one and not the other, on machines that are broadly similar (production based). The quality of racing is just as good in either series. And BSB riders don't wish they had TC so they could feel more like WSBK riders, whilst WSBK riders don't treat BSB riders like peasants for not using it... Of course, it won't be long until there is only one TC algorithm allowed in WSBK, as in MotoGP. Not the same one in each, mind you.

A GT3 car would still be interesting to drive without TC, especially in the real world. But I forgot, it must only be used in the FIA sanctioned way.

"Realism"

 

[Stephen220378]

I'm simply talking about the matter of fact that simulating an overall system is only as "accurate" as its least accurate component. I'm not saying GT does use a real world TC system as a model. I expect it uses something which could never be created in reality.

It's a bit like all those people claiming using GT's ABS was / is fine because it's in most cars these days. Until it turned out (when the no ABS option first appeared) it was the sole reason GT's handling was (still is) numb and prone to understeer, simply because it was nothing like real ABS.

Another interesting point of comparison is the difference between BSB and WSBK, where TC is allowed in one and not the other. The quality of racing is just as good in either series. And BSB riders don't wish they had TC so they could feel more like WSBK riders, whilst WSBK riders don't treat BSB riders like peasants for not using it... Of course, it won't be long until there is only one TC algorithm allowed in WSBK, as in MotoGP. Not the same one in each, mind you.

A GT3 car would still be interesting to drive without TC, especially in the real world. But I forgot, it must be used only in the FIA sanctioned way.

"Realism"

The thing is GT is far from an accurate sim, in fact it's not a sim at all, although it. along with other video games which market themselves as simulators, PCars, IRacing, Assetto Corsa are the closest most people will get to motorsport, but a real simulator is the type that F1 teams and car manufacturers use which cost tens of thousands of pounds to build and focus only on a few cars using the companies telemetry and feedback from drivers with X amount of experience behind the wheel of the real cars. I actually find it hilarious that people come onto forums and say that a certain car's handling is garbage in GT, PCars etc yet they've only compare it to another video game like Assetto Corsa or vice versa having never been near the real car themselves.

It is /was fine because it's just a game and most of everything in "sims" we play in our living rooms are nothing like real life.

Not clued up on bikes to be honest, since you're basically controlling them with your body weight then I'd guess TC could cause all sorts of carnage if it cuts power mid corner.

Well GT3 has Professional drivers and Amateur (gentleman drivers as they call them) drivers in the same race, there's no way the FIA would allow amateur drivers to switch off their TC so I'd say with a fair bit of confidence that TC is just compulsory across all GT racing.

 

[Griffith500]

The thing is GT is far from an accurate sim, in fact it's not a sim at all, although it. along with other video games which market themselves as simulators, PCars, IRacing, Assetto Corsa are the closest most people will get to motorsport, but a real simulator is the type that F1 teams and car manufacturers use which cost tens of thousands of pounds to build and focus only on a few cars using the companies telemetry and feedback from drivers with X amount of experience behind the wheel of the real cars. I actually find it hilarious that people come onto forums and say that a certain car's handling is garbage in GT, PCars etc yet they've only compare it to another video game like Assetto Corsa or vice versa having never been near the real car themselves.

It is /was fine because it's just a game and most of everything in "sims" we play in our living rooms are nothing like real life.

Not clued up on bikes to be honest, since you're basically controlling them with your body weight then I'd guess TC could cause all sorts of carnage if it cuts power mid corner.

Well GT3 has Professional drivers and Amateur (gentleman drivers as they call them) drivers in the same race, there's no way the FIA would allow amateur drivers to switch off their TC so I'd say with a fair bit of confidence that TC is just compulsory across all GT racing.

If GT Sport is not at all realistic, I don't see any sense in insisting GT3 cars only be driven with TC on. Not that I'd see sense in it if it were a perfect 1:1 recreation, either.

The whole point of simulation is to be able to test things that for one reason or another do not yet or simply cannot exist in real life (such as a top tier racing career, or a new composite construction technique, or a traffic control scheme etc.). That is in fact the test of a good simulation, and its greatest utility - that is why they are built. One simulation can and should simulate a great range of scenarios, like a figurative "sandbox".

At any rate, I'd argue that, since the tyre model is still quite weird in Sport, the TC implementation (or certainly its effect in combination with the tyre model) is far from realistic and you'd have a more realistic (authentic) experience with it off, generally, no matter the choice of car. Let's not even get into what the TC adjustment controls do in each individual car. There is really no sense in adding more inaccuracy over the top of pre-existing inaccuracy when what you actually want is more accuracy ("realism").

That does not mean I think people shouldn't use it. To each their own. If leaning on TC makes someone feel more like a Blancpain GT3-Am racer, immersion-wise, more power to 'em, I say
But when it comes to realism, there is only one comparison.


I'm actually not aware of TC being expressly mandatory in any racing series. The language is usually "permitted", "allowed", "authorised" etc. But GT Sport is its own thing, including having its own FIA racing series and hence its own rules!!

Off-topic: You don't "control" bikes with your body weight, although it is a common misconception. Body position affects weight distribution, particularly CoG, of course, and you can get small transients to help move the bike, but without actual control input, it would spring back and not be of much use. TC giving out is as catastrophic as any total loss of traction would be, but the psychological effect can be huge. The best aspect of bike TC, performance-wise, is anti-wheelie, and the only one I have personally tested. Slide control is probably the coolest.

 

[zortation]

Up till now i have been using 0-3 like many others have said. I start with it at 0 (unless i already know better) and if i can't keep the car pointed in the right direction i turn it up a notch and if it is still all over the place i go up one more. The race cars do seem faster with a 1 or 2 but i haven't done many races in them. In the n class cars under i am certainly faster with out it. Also like someone else already said, even if it is set at 1 or 2 if you are smooth enough that it never actually comes on then i don't think it makes a difference

I do it the other way round, start at default then notch it down until it reaches the limits of my skill--which is usually 1 down

I notice that in some cars, I get no advantage from lowering it past a certain setting.