Transgender Thread.

[Famine]

Given how confusing sex is

stifles

(even when you leave out gender) I probably should have used a better term.

AMAB: all three wrong.
Male gender identity: two wrong.

It's a quagmire for sure.

I'd say that if the bodybuilder has had SRS, then they'd be male sex - in all matters that aren't between them and their doctors, or their consenting adults - and gents' room would be fine. Saying all three should be going into male toilets because they're male "sex" is therefore also two wrong. If they haven't had SRS then they'd not be male sex, so it would be all three wrong. But I don't know (and don't care to) if they have or not; that's their business.

But then someone will object because chromosomes are suddenly important to how your waste comes out of your body. Except in the disability-access bogs, of course.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Nope. Try reading it again.

You keep on trotting out the "ignorant" one too. You seem to miss the point that being ignorant of something (meaning "not knowing") is not the same as being an ignorant.

I am amazed that you have the gall to say that someone is "clearly a man" given that you managed to wrongly identify the sex of two of three individuals in a previous post...

Also I'd have thought that you would know that there's plenty of reasons for someone to be overweight without being a "slop" (I assume "slob"). Genes do be like that sometimes, but it's weird you want to just insult someone based on their appearance...

Yes I did mean slob but do you really see this person as a woman?

Sure. Who's posting lunatic extremist left-wing "news" sources known for making stuff up to bolster their opinions in order for this to be relevant to the thread in any way?

You're posting lunatic extremist "left-wing" news sources

Is it snide to remark that the sources you are known to use are biased and unreliable[1][2][3]? Or is it just in the way Famine said it and he could have said it nicer?

Every news source is biased and unreliable to an extent, no?

If Scott said "male" in regards to biological sex, he actually got all three wrong. If he said "male" in regards to gender, he only got two wrong.

I was talking in regards to gender.

So, does this mean if a guy has sex with a woman with short hair, he's practically gay since she's "almost a boy"?

'Cause brother, I've been gay multiple times, then.

I never said that having sex with a short-haired woman was "gay"

 

[Famine]

Yes I did mean slob but do you really see this person as a woman?

I neither know nor care. Why do you?

You're posting lunatic extremist "left-wing" news sources

You're hallucinating. Where have I done this?

 

[McLaren]

I never said that having sex with a short-haired woman was "gay"

Is your name TexRex? Are you of the mindset short hair on a woman somehow means they're "almost a boy" by some brain rotted ideal?

No? Then, that clearly wasn't a response to you.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I neither know nor care. Why do you?

Because it's disgusting?

You're hallucinating. Where have I done this?

You've repeatedly posted stuff from CNN, The Daily Show and The Guardian.

 

[Famine]

Because it's disgusting?

Why is it?

You've repeatedly posted stuff from CNN, The Daily Show and The Guardian.

Where? Also, what's "The Daily Show"?

The last link I posted in a conversation with you I think was a page or five about Christmas events on your local council's website after you said it didn't mention Christmas...

 

[McLaren]

The Daily Show is literally comedy centered around news stories that funny enough, cites outlets in its clips it makes jokes over. The hosts also, poke fun at Democrats fairly often. These are the same creators who convinced Conservatives The Colbert Report was a conservative show b/c it poked fun at liberals.

CNN has never been of the same degree as Walsh or the Daily Caller & in the past 6 months, as moved fairly more into right-wing presentation.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Why is it?

If I have to explain it you then I give up.

Where? Also, what's "The Daily Show"?

You've never seen it? Is this some sort of joke? The show that features John Stewart among other commentators?

The last link I posted in a conversation with you I think was a page or five about Christmas events on your local council's website after you said it didn't mention Christmas...

Yeah so?

 

[TumeK5]

If I have to explain it you

You kind of have to.

 

[Famine]

If I have to explain it you then I give up.

That rather looks like an admission that you can't actually explain it at all.

Why is it disgusting?

You've never seen it? Is this some sort of joke? The show that features John Stewart among other commentators?

I don't watch television.

Actually I legally can't watch broadcast television at all, but we do catch the occasional series via on-demand services. I don't follow celebrity stuff really, so I'm not sure who John Stewart is - one might even say I'm ignorant of who they are. I might recognise them, but unless reminded of them frequently I tend to forget these people.

Yeah so?

It wasn't a left-wing source and it caught you in an obvious lie.

 

[TexRex]

It's not OK to call a fat person fat but it's OK to call a disabled person disabled.

Fat slobs like this one:

Hmm.

I'm not crying like a little bitch.

Sure you are, though I understand you are wont to downplay it.

You're crying like a little bitch about how you have these expectations and that those who don't neatly fit them aren't required to use the public restroom you would assign them to. Frankly I don't understand why you care what public restroom anyone uses so long as you get the oversized stall at the end.

You can't help post a snide remark about my level of intelligence.

This implies there is a level.

I could very easily say that the left-wing sources make stuff up too you know.

The sources you provide aren't unimpeachable simply because you gesticulate at others.

So, does this mean if a guy has sex with a woman with short hair, he's practically gay since she's "almost a boy"?

'Cause brother, I've been gay multiple times, then.

Quit bragging.

Yes I did mean slob but do you really see this person as a woman?

How substantive is another's perception of sex or gender, especially when you perceived two biological females--who identify as such--as male because they subvert your idiotic expectations and would assign them to the gendered restroom that does not conform to either their biological sex or gender identity?

Moreover, why do you want to harm women, violating their rights, simply because they don't look the way you want them to look?

I never said that having sex with a short-haired woman was "gay"

Heh. "Level."

 

[Com Fox]

Yes I did mean slob but do you really see this person as a woman?

Honestly, I don't think it should matter how I see a person.

When addressing people, it's an act of respect to address them how they want to address. It's really no different than if someone rather be called by a nickname or a honorary title. Opinions on whether its "legitimate" really shouldn't be in the way of just treating people with respect at the most basic level as it's really no ones business but them.

 

[ScottPuss20]

That rather looks like an admission that you can't actually explain it at all.

Why is it disgusting?

Because a fat slob that sounds like a man with long purple hair should not be allowed into a female toilet. Present yourself as a woman, fine, but don't kid yourself into thinking you actually are on a biological level if you have a pee pee.

Hmm.

Sure you are, though I understand you are wont to downplay it.

You're crying like a little bitch about how you have these expectations and that those who don't neatly fit them aren't required to use the public restroom you would assign them to. Frankly I don't understand why you care what public restroom anyone uses so long as you get the oversized stall at the end.

So you're telling me that I shouldn't care because I use the disabled toilet? That's stupid. If you have a pee pee, you go to the male toilet. If not, you go the female one. Simple, right?

This implies there is a level.

HAHAHAHA that's a good one

How substantive is another's perception of sex or gender, especially when you perceived two biological females--who identify as such--as male because they subvert your idiotic expectations and would assign them to the gendered restroom that does not conform to either their biological sex or gender identity?

I don't know if my expectations should be considered as idiotic. Uninformed maybe but that's all.

Moreover, why do you want to harm women, violating their rights, simply because they don't look the way you want them to look?

I don't want to harm women at all.

Honestly, I don't think it should matter how I see a person.

When addressing people, it's an act of respect to address them how they want to address. It's really no different than if someone rather be called by a nickname or a honorary title. Opinions on whether its "legitimate" really shouldn't be in the way of just treating people with respect at the most basic level as it's really no ones business but them.

"You have to call me a woman even if you don't think I am"

No one is allowed to question it or else they're labelled as "transphobes" which isn't entirely fair.

 

[TumeK5]

So you're telling me that I shouldn't care because I use the disabled toilet? That's stupid. If you have a pee pee, you go to the male toilet. If not, you go the female one. Simple, right?

Yes...? But you seem to have a problem with it.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Yes...? But you seem to have a problem with it.

I have a problem with people ignoring biological truth.

 

[Daniel]

If you have a pee pee, you go to the male toilet. If not, you go the female one. Simple, right?

It's not simple. How do I know? Because you got it wrong three times in a row.

How 'stealthy' does a trans person need to be in order for them to avoid you being judgy about it?

Does she need to lose weight? Does she need to get surgery first? Which surgery does she need to get? Does she need a hair transplant? Does she need to start taking estrogen? How long does she need to start taking estrogen? Does she need to wear more feminine clothing? What if she can't afford to get surgery? What if she can't afford minoxidil treatment to regrow her hair?

Does it even matter where people need to take a crap? And do not claim that it's for women's safety and trying to reduce men dressing like women and commiting crimes:

...fears of increased safety and privacy violations as a result of nondiscrimination laws are not empirically grounded.

Source: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13178-018-0335-z#citeas

I have a problem with people ignoring biological truth.

She literally mentioned gender at the start. She's not talking about biology, she's talking about gender. Gender is not the same as sex. They are closely related, but not the exact same.

 

[ScottPuss20]

It's not simple. How do I know? Because you got it wrong three times in a row.

Well what do you propose then? What's the answer?

How 'stealthy' does a trans person need to be in order for them to avoid you being judgy about it?

Does she need to lose weight? Does she need to get surgery first? Does she need to start taking estrogen? How long does she need to start taking estrogen? Does she need to wear more feminine clothing? What if she can't afford to get surgery?

This is irrelevant.

 

[TumeK5]

This is irrelevant.

So now you're getting defensive...


Edit: And for the record, I also misread the original comment as "if you go have pee pee..."

Which then creates a whole new discussion. No, it's not simple. Not at all. As stated above, and earlier as well...sex =/= gender.

 

[TexRex]

So you're telling me that I shouldn't care because I use the disabled toilet? That's stupid.

That you have access to a restroom that meets your requirements is the only reasonable concern. Any other concern is simultaneously bizarre and indicative that you have pickled yourself stupid in conservative bitchfits.

If you have a pee pee, you go to the male toilet. If not, you go the female one. Simple, right?

Who is enforcing such a standard and how is whether one has a penis or not determined? Where do biological males who identify as such go if they don't have a penis?

Moreover, why? One's presence in a particular space isn't itself a violation of rights.

I don't know if my expectations should be considered as idiotic. Uninformed maybe but that's all.

Nope, they're idiotic. That you're wont to downplay the idiocy is understandable, but it doesn't change anything. If you're bothered by "idiotic" specifically, I'll allow you to substitute in "moronic" or "imbecilic" as you see fit.

I don't want to harm women at all.

Rights violations are harms. They may not inflict physical injury, but they are still harms. You indicated that you would deny--or have the government deny--biological females access to public restrooms indicated for them on the basis that they don't meet your idiotic expectations.

I have a problem with people ignoring biological truth.

This is awkward given that you did precisely that.

 

[Daniel]

Well what do you propose then? What's the answer?

I propose not giving a crap about where people crap.

This study finds that 'bathroom bills' (in your words, being made to "go to the male toilet if you have a pee pee") do not actually reduce reports of crime, and this one found that trans and non-binary teens are more likely to be the victims of assault if they are forced to use a bathroom they don't want to use.

If you "don't want to harm women at all" then why do you support policies that will make it even more likey for trans women to get assaulted?

This is irrelevant.

It is absolutely relevant.

You highlighted a difference between "legitimate trans people" and those trying to be explotative.

You also acknowledged that checking organs or chromosomes is "stupid", stating "this is why we have genders, right?"

So how can you tell the difference between a 'legitimate trans woman' who I presume you think is okay to use the women's bathroom, and one who you say is "exploiting the whole transgender thing", using the example of the woman (gender) in the video you posted?

 

[McLaren]

Quit bragging.

Lol, I have worded that wrong. I meant I've definitely been "practically gay" then, as I've found women who look "almost like a boy" attractive multiple times.

 

[Daniel]

Lol, I have worded that wrong. I meant I've definitely been "practically gay" then, as I've found women who look "almost like a boy" attractive multiple times.

I'm a man in a relationship with a man. Does that make me straight because he has short hair and women sometimes have short hair?

Oh god, am I going to have to come out again???

 

[TexRex]

Lol, I have worded that wrong. I meant I've definitely been "practically gay" then, as I've found women who look "almost like a boy" attractive multiple times.

I knew what you meant but it was more fun to reply as I did.

Edit:

I'm a man in a relationship with a man. Does that make me straight because he has short hair and women sometimes have short hair?

Oh god, am I going to have to come out again???

Hopefully happy.

Edit: That looks weird. I was replying to this:

I'm a man in a relationship with a man. What does that make me?

 

[Com Fox]

"You have to call me a woman even if you don't think I am"

No one is allowed to question it or else they're labelled as "transphobes" which isn't entirely fair.

Given you have mistook a biological woman for a man in this thread, your questioning is a bit different.

But honestly yeah, if some wants you to address them as woman you should do so. It's no different than if someone wanted people to go by a nickname instead of what their actual name is on their birthcertificate. The logistics of it don't matter, its about giving people decency and respect. I'm not saying you can't question it but any questioning shouldn't end up with you denying what they want to be addressed. Its no ones business but theirs at the end of the day and no reason others should care.

 

[McLaren]

I'm a man in a relationship with a man. Does that make me straight because he has short hair and women sometimes have short hair?

Oh god, am I going to have to come out again???

I think you become straight if you grow your hair out past the shoulders, therefore, you become "almost a woman".

 

[ScottPuss20]

That you have access to a restroom that meets your requirements is the only reasonable concern. Any other concern is simultaneously bizarre and indicative that you have pickled yourself stupid in conservative bitchfits.

Oh right.

Who is enforcing such a standard and how is whether one has a penis or not determined? Where do biological males who identify as such go if they don't have a penis?

Good question.

Moreover, why? One's presence in a particular space isn't itself a violation of rights.

I suppose not.

Nope, they're idiotic. That you're wont to downplay the idiocy is understandable, but it doesn't change anything. If you're bothered by "idiotic" specifically, I'll allow you to substitute in "moronic" or "imbecilic" as you see fit.

Whatever you say boss.

Rights violations are harms. They may not inflict physical injury, but they are still harms. You indicated that you would deny--or have the government deny--biological females access to public restrooms indicated for them on the basis that they don't meet your idiotic expectations.

I did not say that biological females should be denied access.

This is awkward given that you did precisely that.

I did not ignore it.

I propose not giving a crap about where people crap.

This study finds that 'bathroom bills' (in your words, being made to "go to the male toilet if you have a pee pee") do not actually reduce reports of crime, and this one found that trans and non-binary teens are more likely to be the victims of assault if they are forced to use a bathroom they don't want to use.

If you "don't want to harm women at all" then why do you support policies that will make it even more likey for trans women to get assaulted?

Trans women or women?

It is absolutely relevant.

You highlighted a difference between "legitimate trans people" and those trying to be explotative.

You also acknowledged that checking organs or chromosomes is "stupid", stating "this is why we have genders, right?"

So how can you tell the difference between a 'legitimate trans woman' who I presume you think is okay to use the women's bathroom, and one who you say is "exploiting the whole transgender thing", using the example of the woman (gender) in the video you posted?

I suppose I can't tell then.

 

[Daniel]

Trans women or women?

Trans is short for transgender.
Transgender is an adjective.
The adjective is modifying being applied to the word 'women'.
Ergo, some women are transgender.

I'll repeat the question, do you support policies that harm women, whether they are transgender or not?

 

[ScottPuss20]

I'll repeat the question, do you support policies that harm women, whether they are transgender or not?

No.

 

[TexRex]

Oh right.

Yup.

Good question.

I know.

I suppose not.

Okay then.

Whatever you say boss.

Thought so.

I did not say that biological females should be denied access.

I did not ignore it.

Three people were presented to you for the purpose of assigning a gendered restroom based on their appearace. You assigned two biological females to the men's restroom on the basis that one has muscles, which are not unique to biological males, and the other has facial hair as a result of an endocrine disorder unique to biological females.

...

It wasn't directed at me but I had a reply to this and forgot to include it in my earlier reply.

"You have to call me a woman even if you don't think I am"

No one is allowed to question it or else they're labelled as "transphobes" which isn't entirely fair.

Crying like a little bitch because calling others something they don't want to be called may result in you being called something you don't want to be called is a special kind of pathetic.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Three people were presented to you for the purpose of assigning a gendered restroom based on their appearace. You assigned two biological females to the men's restroom on the basis that one has muscles, which are not unique to biological males, and the other has facial hair as a result of an endocrine disorder unique to biological females.

Yeah and?

It wasn't directed at me but I had a reply to this and forgot to include it in my earlier reply.

Crying like a little bitch because calling others something they don't want to be called may result in you being called something you don't want to be called is a special kind of pathetic.

Very special indeed.