Transition from Gran Turismo to real life, things you need to be aware of. (Updated poll 7/27!)

[sk8er913]

What tires do you typically drive with in GT6? What would you put on a C7 Corvette with stock power? I think a lot of GT6 players tend to use tires that are way too grippy and then it doesn't surprise me that their cars feel like they're on rails. I'm not saying that you do this, but I know a lot of people do. Still, I do agree with you that GT6 leaves a LOT to be desired with their tires.

I would probably use SH tires. But in reality most probably use CS or CM, because they are a lot cheaper.


Just finished reading @Lawndart 's post... I'm gonna need more track time! The part about not wanting real world physics in game was awesome. Although the rest put in to perspective how little experience I actually have with racing. Yeah I can race with the best in GT and all other sims. But its just not the same as driving a real car. I seem to be pretty fast at that too considering how little I know.

 

[Motor City Hami]

Nailed it @Imari
Let me just drop this bomb, you don't want real world physics in your game, you want things to FEEL real, not actually BE real. There simply aren't effective means to compensate for the loss of the real world sensation in a 2D medium (game), not even motion rigs work quite right. We would all be lost. The goal of a game is to do things convincingly, not realistically. To achieve convincing you need to compensate for, not replicate reality. Not to mention real world physics are not absolute, computational physics are, another major challenge to over come.

+1 - Smartest thing that I have ever read on GT Planet.

I play GT at least twice a week. I have played every version since GT1. I also have raced Sports Car Club of America's amateur series for eight seasons. Plus 20 years of remote controlled cars at the factory driver national level. Add in a little bit of Autocross and visits to indoor 40 mph go carts and that rounds out my experience. I also had a few drives in a full motion simulator at Ford, which did not feel very real and just made me dizzy.

@Lawndart has nailed it with his comments. The physics should mimic the visual sensation of real world. The inputs should produce similar results. But, there is nothing currently in the gaming world that can simulate the information your brain takes in from the physical stresses. Your hips actually tell you a lot about what the car is doing. That part of your body is the most secured and connected to the race car. The angle of the car is felt there. Sound also adds a ton of information for me. There is a particular note of tire squeal that tells me that I am right on the limit. A talking tire is a happy tire. A screaming tire is telling you that it's had enough; there's no more grip. If there is no tire sound, you are not going to be near the front of the pack.

In my opinion (not looking for argument or debate about my opinion as it's just that, an opinion) is that GT6 has given us acceptable physics. At least they are predictable. Most cars begin with a terrible understeer. FR cars are the easiest to be made to handle better. FF cars are usually impossible. Very few come close to what can be done with a real world FF car. My biggest knock at the current physics model is that the settings, the levers that we have to move, many work counter to real world logic. It would be nice if the directional adjustments all worked closer to real world logic, or for that matter even match the in-game descriptions. If PD could even just change the setting screen visuals to match real world logic, using the same underlying physics, people could read things like, "Tune to Win" by Carroll Smith and understand what to do to make cars drive better. Instead, the in-game adjustments produce vague or counter intuitive results, forcing a few of us to spend thousands of hours testing each and every setting across the spectrum and write our own interpretations of in-game tuning.

Even with hours of testing, we in the Tuning Forum still do not fully agree on what each setting actually does (see camber debates, ride height debates, toe debates, etc.). In a way, everyone is right and everyone is wrong. What I mean is that what works for me, may not work for someone else. And what works for someone else doesn't always work for me. Heck, sometimes I stumble upon a car that simply will not respond to my tuning method so I know that I do not have the physics fully cracked.

For the above reason, I give the game physics a C+; acceptable. How can so many of us have put so much time into reverse engineering the physics model and still have so many differing opinions about what does what? This is the reason for my low grade of the current game. But hey, based on the survey results at the top of this thread, I am in the minority (25% at the time of this post).

 

[Mike_grpA]

If the tires are modelled as solid rubber wouldn't the cars bounce into the air over kerbs?

I was going to answer this, until I read this:

Not necessarily, you've still got suspension and dampers remember.

The thing with the "solid" tyres is more about the lack of flex in them. There's a significant difference in ride quality and cornering performance in my real car if I pump my tyres up to 32psi instead of the factory recommended 24. The car is "floppier" in the corners. The cars in game don't feel like they have that tiny delay as the tyres deform and load up when you turn it side to side.

There's also the fact that the tyres in game respond only in the most limited fashion to load. An inflated tyre would increase it's contact patch significantly with extra weight, whereas a solid tyre would only gain a little extra grip from the increased load on it's static contact patch.

It may not be true that the tyres are modelled as being solid, but PD haven't made a fuss about introducing flex into their tyre model. Every other game that I know has it has touted it as a big deal, which it kind of is. It's an important part of how tyres behave. It's also computationally expensive, so they want to make sure that people are "noticing" all their hard work. It's a reasonable assumption that the GT6 tyre model doesn't have flex in it to any significant degree, they're already tight enough for CPU cycles without sticking something like that in.

That pretty much sums it up lol. Besides, I didn't mean they definitely modelled the tyre as a solid piece of rubber. Just that the way the grip is either on or off makes it feel that way to me. Like the tread and carcass of the tyre is fixed, and doesn't move or change it's shape dynamically.

+1 - Smartest thing that I have ever read on GT Planet.

I play GT at least twice a week. I have played every version since GT1. I also have raced Sports Car Club of America's amateur series for eight seasons. Plus 20 years of remote controlled cars at the factory driver national level. Add in a little bit of Autocross and visits to indoor 40 mph go carts and that rounds out my experience. I also had a few drives in a full motion simulator at Ford, which did not feel very real and just made me dizzy.

@Lawndart has nailed it with his comments. The physics should mimic the visual sensation of real world. The inputs should produce similar results. But, there is nothing currently in the gaming world that can simulate the information your brain takes in from the physical stresses. Your hips actually tell you a lot about what the car is doing. That part of your body is the most secured and connected to the race car. The angle of the car is felt there. Sound also adds a ton of information for me. There is a particular note of tire squeal that tells me that I am right on the limit. A talking tire is a happy tire. A screaming tire is telling you that it's had enough; there's no more grip. If there is no tire sound, you are not going to be near the front of the pack.

In my opinion (not looking for argument or debate about my opinion as it's just that, an opinion) is that GT6 has given us acceptable physics. At least they are predictable. Most cars begin with a terrible understeer. FR cars are the easiest to be made to handle better. FF cars are usually impossible. Very few come close to what can be done with a real world FF car. My biggest knock at the current physics model is that the settings, the levers that we have to move, many work counter to real world logic. It would be nice if the directional adjustments all worked closer to real world logic, or for that matter even match the in-game descriptions. If PD could even just change the setting screen visuals to match real world logic, using the same underlying physics, people could read things like, "Tune to Win" by Carroll Smith and understand what to do to make cars drive better. Instead, the in-game adjustments produce vague or counter intuitive results, forcing a few of us to spend thousands of hours testing each and every setting across the spectrum and write our own interpretations of in-game tuning.

Even with hours of testing, we in the Tuning Forum still do not fully agree on what each setting actually does (see camber debates, ride height debates, toe debates, etc.). In a way, everyone is right and everyone is wrong. What I mean is that what works for me, may not work for someone else. And what works for someone else doesn't always work for me. Heck, sometimes I stumble upon a car that simply will not respond to my tuning method so I know that I do not have the physics fully cracked.

For the above reason, I give the game physics a C+; acceptable. How can so many of us have put so much time into reverse engineering the physics model and still have so many differing opinions about what does what? This is the reason for my low grade of the current game. But hey, based on the survey results at the top of this thread, I am in the minority (25% at the time of this post).

Agree 100% mate. It would be nice if the tuning actually operated as it should. I also think that the biggest thing missing from any sim is the "feeling" you get when driving. No amount of ffb or motion rig can simulate it fully. To quote Niki Lauda from the "Rush" film; "I have a great ass", lol. It's probably my best attribute in driving a real car. I have a very sensitive feel, always have. It's just a pity that I'll likely never be able to use that in sim racing. It took me ages to get used to sim racing with a wheel set up, because I always felt numb or disconnected.

 

[sk8er913]

+1 - Smartest thing that I have ever read on GT Planet.

I play GT at least twice a week. I have played every version since GT1. I also have raced Sports Car Club of America's amateur series for eight seasons. Plus 20 years of remote controlled cars at the factory driver national level. Add in a little bit of Autocross and visits to indoor 40 mph go carts and that rounds out my experience. I also had a few drives in a full motion simulator at Ford, which did not feel very real and just made me dizzy.

@Lawndart has nailed it with his comments. The physics should mimic the visual sensation of real world. The inputs should produce similar results. But, there is nothing currently in the gaming world that can simulate the information your brain takes in from the physical stresses. Your hips actually tell you a lot about what the car is doing. That part of your body is the most secured and connected to the race car. The angle of the car is felt there. Sound also adds a ton of information for me. There is a particular note of tire squeal that tells me that I am right on the limit. A talking tire is a happy tire. A screaming tire is telling you that it's had enough; there's no more grip. If there is no tire sound, you are not going to be near the front of the pack.

In my opinion (not looking for argument or debate about my opinion as it's just that, an opinion) is that GT6 has given us acceptable physics. At least they are predictable. Most cars begin with a terrible understeer. FR cars are the easiest to be made to handle better. FF cars are usually impossible. Very few come close to what can be done with a real world FF car. My biggest knock at the current physics model is that the settings, the levers that we have to move, many work counter to real world logic. It would be nice if the directional adjustments all worked closer to real world logic, or for that matter even match the in-game descriptions. If PD could even just change the setting screen visuals to match real world logic, using the same underlying physics, people could read things like, "Tune to Win" by Carroll Smith and understand what to do to make cars drive better. Instead, the in-game adjustments produce vague or counter intuitive results, forcing a few of us to spend thousands of hours testing each and every setting across the spectrum and write our own interpretations of in-game tuning.

Even with hours of testing, we in the Tuning Forum still do not fully agree on what each setting actually does (see camber debates, ride height debates, toe debates, etc.). In a way, everyone is right and everyone is wrong. What I mean is that what works for me, may not work for someone else. And what works for someone else doesn't always work for me. Heck, sometimes I stumble upon a car that simply will not respond to my tuning method so I know that I do not have the physics fully cracked.

For the above reason, I give the game physics a C+; acceptable. How can so many of us have put so much time into reverse engineering the physics model and still have so many differing opinions about what does what? This is the reason for my low grade of the current game. But hey, based on the survey results at the top of this thread, I am in the minority (25% at the time of this post).

The only information I've gotten from my hips so far is "oww, oww, oww, oww. Simulators are a lot less painful."

On OP I have tuning marked as a minor physics issue, because even if it is garbage. It doesn't affect how you drive the car much. It has more of an affect on tuning than actual driving IMO.

 

[Mike_grpA]

IMO tuning is hugely important. If the tuning settings don't operate as they should, and often in GT6 they are backwards to real life, that tells me something is very wrong with the physics in the game. Tuning affects how I drive in a big way. I can drive around a problem in a car's set up, but I'd prefer to set it up to compliment my driving style.

 

[VBR]

Should I add GT5P as a game that simulates lift off oversteer better than GT6? I am a little bit behind, this thread moves fairly quickly. And the information on it is quite hard to process, so I have to read some of the more detailed post 2 or 3 times before I figure out what they are saying. I'm leaving right now, but I will update this thread again later tonight.

No need to do that.


👍

 

[sk8er913]

Here's a post I found that some of you may find interesting. An engineer decided he wanted to compare rfactor and a real car at Monza. I didn't read the whole thing, because it is very long, I read about 1/3rd of it though. He gathered some very cool data.

https://drracing.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/how-close-is-close-enough/

 

[photonrider]

Nailed it @Imari, saved me a lot of typing Lift off over-steer in real life is both the leading factor in my competitiveness (especially at Laguna Seca) and my follies... Run up to fast on a much slower competitor in a turn, lift and snap inside spin... :/

If folks here are obsessively interested in computation vs. real world physics and the differences in games I would invite you to read my thread history from 2013, early 2014, when I was a lot more active with GT. Being a game developer for the past 22 years is what paid for most of my racing... Even some in industry sponsorship (look at my Avatar windscreen banner) so I'm smashed between both worlds.

Let me just drop this bomb, you don't want real world physics in your game, you want things to FEEL real, not actually BE real. There simply aren't effective means to compensate for the loss of the real world sensation in a 2D medium (game), not even motion rigs work quite right. We would all be lost. The goal of a game is to do things convincingly, not realistically. To achieve convincing you need to compensate for, not replicate reality. Not to mention real world physics are not absolute, computational physics are, another major challenge to over come.

Why say this? Because even real racers can over come the shortcomings of a "sim" game and get value out of it much like having to overcome a poorly set up car on race day. That being said, no GT6 does not have lift oversteer... can it happen? Yes under very specific circumstances but its not consistent nor controllable. For awhile I thought it was just me and was pleased to have felt it, but in the end I concluded it's just not there.

Allow me to add some details to what Imeri said specific to the MX-5. A well setup track Miata will always want to rotate, it's what makes them such competent track cars. Adding any deceleration by way of brakes or just engine braking enhances this desire to rotate substantially. This behavior is controlled with throttle in real life, in games its more about brakes. If the car starts stepping out you control the rate of rotation by the amount of throttle input as the more you apply the harder the rear end "squats" and the tire bites... In doing this you're controlling your angle of attack but always balancing the slip angle to ensure you don't scrub off too much speed (over rotation/sliding). All of this is done within the limits of the slip angle, beyond this its the traction circle... if you get out there you botched it and are fighting for control of the car. Its most evident at turn in, rotate sliding on the slip angle and planting the rear rounding the apex reaching full throttle well before turn exit. A great reference is watching MotoGP bikes turning aggressively, that "slide" is the same thing. Its where I learned to do it myself, I only race cars now because I'm old :/

It just gets more complicated from here but can you feel any of this in GT? Not really because its all in your butt in real life... Can you trick your brain into feeling it? YES! but its a lot of work. Games need to convey this through FFB wheels, and some quite effectively actually but its compensation. I can convince my brain to adapt as well as anyone who doesn't know any better to a sim just pretending it's a strange car setup... but when I can't make my car behave the way it uniquely does in real life in my sim it's a lot harder to trick my brain.

I hope this makes some sense, I scanned this thread and despite some of the contrary statements, many here know what they are talking about, and the ones that are "wrong" aren't really wrong as much as they don't have the context to know, and to be honest? I would rather be them, they are having more fun than those that really know... GT has a long way to go and I do believe they will get there, it's a balance challenge more than a math one. Cant believe I got this far without once mentioning tire dynamics...

Ah, before I end, GT deserves some real credit for teaching me the Nurburgring before I ran it in real life back in 2011. I credit GT for a near sub 10 minute bridge to gantry in the pouring rain in a Clio Reno RS cup car. FF cars are a whole other ball of wax... Loosing control? GAS! Rear end spinning around? GAS! Sidways? GAS! Get rear ended? GAS! Need to stop? GAS! ;o

That is so bang on target it's scary. 👍

BTW - I drive an FF - Olds 3.5 L twin cam V6 IRL. Fun, fun, fun . . . and, yes, throttle control.

 

[sk8er913]

That is so bang on target it's scary. 👍

BTW - I drive an FF - Olds 3.5 L twin cam V6 IRL. Fun, fun, fun . . . and, yes, throttle control.

I think of it as a circular G- meter, for the X and Z axis, that's how I learned some techniques on Forza 3. lol

 

[photonrider]

I still have to find an FF in the game that feels anything like my car. When I get into my RL car it seems like I'm driving on another planet. The physics of Gran Turismo are interplanetary so I guess there is a little bit of Earth in there.

 

[sk8er913]

I still have to find an FF in the game that feels anything like my car. When I get into my RL car it seems like I'm driving on another planet. The physics of Gran Turismo are interplanetary so I guess there is a little bit of Earth in there.

Its almost like the physics for GT were meant for an entirely different celestial body... hmm. O.o Maybe they used data from the Apollo missions to build the physics. Yeah the circular G meter just caught me the basic "don't brake in the corners!" And the other basic "Don't accelerate too much" Because it hurts your handling abilities.

 

[Lewis_Hamilton_]

I still have to find an FF in the game that feels anything like my car. When I get into my RL car it seems like I'm driving on another planet. The physics of Gran Turismo are interplanetary so I guess there is a little bit of Earth in there.

Hope I don't sound like a noob to the more informed and/or pro tuners around here.
I can sort of match the lift off oversteer my Focus had if I use some really absurd tuning, but then doing so makes the rear loose everywhere, even on a straight. If I let off the throttle while cornering very hard in my Focus, the rear would try to come right round, so much so that it nearly caught me out a couple of times when the car went completely sideways, but otherwise the car was planted in all other situations. I can only seem to get FF cars to be one or the other (loose everywhere or planted everywhere) in GT6.

Richard Hammond does a good job of explaining what I mean around the 2:50 mark.

 

[Manasseh257NSX]

Oddly, I've had a few experiences where I've put keen older drivers who are not gamers, like my Dad, in my rig and let them try a few different games. They find games like GT and FM the hardest, and things like iRacing and AC the easiest. Presumably because it matches up with their real life experience of driving.

I think car enthusiasts find it easier the more realistic the simulation is. I think gamers find it hard regardless of the realism if they're not into driving games, but the simpler style of physics has a lower skill floor because there's simply less things to learn. And less ways to stuff up, I suppose.

I think a simulation type game should be trying to be as accurate as possible, because the whole point is to use the same skills and techniques that you would use to drive a real car. If that then requires aids for less able players, then so be it. ABS, TC and stability control should be able to get just about anyone around a track unless they have thumbs made entirely of butter.

A little late on the reply, but I definitely agree. If GT is going to call themselves a Simulation game, they need to be as accurate and precise as possible with their physics and realism, because while they "might" be gaining appeal from the casual gamer by simplifying real world driving physics and dumbing down tuning options, they lose appeal from actual car enthusiasts or pro tuners who actually take joy in playing these GT games for the real reason they are made. To simulate driving a car. I love GT and been playing it since I was 3 but they have got to start taking bigger steps in making the game feel like an actual driving simulator rather than just adding in detailed cars.

Also, GT tends to miss out on a few aspects regarding the suspension and engine. The only reason why I know this is because my dad is a mechanic and I talk to my dad regularly about this kind of stuff, and some of the stuff he says is simple I try to relate it back to the game just to find out it isn't really included or again, dumbed down. Bottom line to sum it up, and going back to what I and a few people said earlier, it seems that PD gives you the basics but doesn't really let you get truly intact with the car. I may be a little in over my head with this since I am not a mechanic nor very car savvy as I want to be, but this topic is very interesting and is helping me learn a lot of knowledge about real world driving physics and racing/driving principles.

But Let me stop babbling, let's get back on the subject at hand.

 

[Robbks]

I say "generally" happy with it as I'm more into cruising around in mildly tuned street cars,
i.e my current favourite car is the lowly old BRZ, on some SH tyres, small turbo kit and the usual suspension mods, no aero.

I can tune it to handle neutrally and predictably and it uses pretty much real world values for spring rates, etc
we know camber is pretty much a lost cause, so just leave the rear at 0 and front at 0.5.

As for the great comments from Lawndart and MCH, spot on. while I don't feel that lift off oversteer is the right term, you can still induce a certain amount of weight transfer with the throttle to give a similar result,
it may just be the physics model pushing more grip to the front wheels so they bite and turn harder, giving the illusion that the rear is coming around.
I also find that the roof/ hood view is vital to use in getting a sensation on what the car is doing,
when the rear starts to come around (either under power or trail-braking) I see it better from that view, while feeling a change in the wheel feedback.
i've done a bit of circuit driving in road cars, motokhana, etc, and agree that without the FF under your butt or in your hips the feeling of what the car is doing is hard to simulate anyway.

For a "Driving Simulator" (what it says on the box) It's pretty good
If i want door to door pack racing, I pick another game.
this is where I think GT should invest heavy in developing Rally, Rally-X and Touge style events
Or make the Sierra Rally events more of a dogfight rather than "how many granny's can we fly past"

 

[super_gt]

Lift off oversteer demonstrated by Tiff Needel:

 

[sk8er913]

I say "generally" happy with it as I'm more into cruising around in mildly tuned street cars,
i.e my current favourite car is the lowly old BRZ, on some SH tyres, small turbo kit and the usual suspension mods, no aero.

I can tune it to handle neutrally and predictably and it uses pretty much real world values for spring rates, etc
we know camber is pretty much a lost cause, so just leave the rear at 0 and front at 0.5.

As for the great comments from Lawndart and MCH, spot on. while I don't feel that lift off oversteer is the right term, you can still induce a certain amount of weight transfer with the throttle to give a similar result,
it may just be the physics model pushing more grip to the front wheels so they bite and turn harder, giving the illusion that the rear is coming around.
I also find that the roof/ hood view is vital to use in getting a sensation on what the car is doing,
when the rear starts to come around (either under power or trail-braking) I see it better from that view, while feeling a change in the wheel feedback.
i've done a bit of circuit driving in road cars, motokhana, etc, and agree that without the FF under your butt or in your hips the feeling of what the car is doing is hard to simulate anyway.

For a "Driving Simulator" (what it says on the box) It's pretty good
If i want door to door pack racing, I pick another game.
this is where I think GT should invest heavy in developing Rally, Rally-X and Touge style events
Or make the Sierra Rally events more of a dogfight rather than "how many granny's can we fly past"

And remove that absurd Skid Recovery Force. -_-


Has anyone tried the physics of Capo petrabras de marcas? It has really good inertia physics and really good damage. The game was really fun with a keyboard, and it has offical support for G27. So I moved everything around so that I can use it tomorrow. @Ettick has more experience than me at this game, would you like to add something to this discussion?

GT is a great way to prepare for real life racing but I think we are better off learning from multiple sims. ... speaking of multiple sims, if you have a sim that you are very experienced with and create a similar topic to this I would love to link threads so that we can compare notes.

 

[sk8er913]

Ok so ive played Copa petrabras de marcas for about an hour.

Compared to GT6:
More lifelike FFB

Engine dies when you lock up the brakes and don't have the clutch in.

I haven't tried the clutch yet (using paddle shifters) but I assume the clutch performs better in this game. Later tonight I will try clutch. And I will keep it hopefully will help my mind differentiate between the 2 games.

Although it feels great. I'm a little worried that I haven't had to counter steer yet. Even though its an FF there should be a little twitch every once in awhile at least...?




Does GT6 have poor feedback.

Update: after more hours on the real BTCC simulator. I came back to GT6 to practice for my QP tonight. And wow. GT6 is amazing. I could actually feel the car underneath me. I felt numb in copa but I think that might just be an experience thing. I'm a complete noob with real life.

Also we were thread of the week! Good job on the great feedback guys. Keep up the good work. if theres anything I can do to make this thread better, pm me.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Congratulations @sk8er913 on having this thread featured in the Community Spotlight this week. Keep up the good work

 

[sk8er913]

Congratulations @sk8er913 on having this thread featured in the Community Spotlight this week. Keep up the good work

Its not me, its the people in this thread.

Btw having driven for nearly 3 hours in the 4 hours of Tsukuba, I know its probably spelled incorrectly. I have decided that I didn't give GT enough credit when I originally created this thread, because today I heard the noise that represented what I originally ranted about not being there. It is indeed tgere, but you can't feel it. There is no acknowledgement from the wheel that you are bouncing. Just the sound of the RPMs oscillating. I'm glad im able to change my vote after having experienced it in game.

Could someone with more experience try to explain to me whats happening and how I can minimize its effect as a driver?


This is approximately the same as what I do. Hear the bouncing/oscillating in the corners? What can I do to minimize that, it slows me down and is very stressful to my pressure points in the seat.

 

[sk8er913]

Now that I have my computer hooked up in a position accessible with my G27 I am now redownloading Simraceway, and a game called Auto Club Revolution. I will be comparing these to Gran Turismo, It would be nice to hear what others think about this, and if these reviews should be added to the OP or not.

 

[Imari]

Now that I have my computer hooked up in a position accessible with my G27 I am now redownloading Simraceway, and a game called Auto Club Revolution. I will be comparing these to Gran Turismo, It would be nice to hear what others think about this, and if these reviews should be added to the OP or not.

The major sims worth playing for the sake of realism at the moment are AC, rF2 and iRacing. Maybe pCARS if you get the right car.

Of all of these, the cheapest to try (without piracy) would be iRacing. You can currently get a free three month trial I believe. Check the promo codes thread here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/iracing-promo-codes-updated.131900/

There's guide and an assistant app to help you get your FFB set up perfectly for your wheel. (You'll have access to the iRacing forums once you sign up.) It'll take you a wee while, but it's totally worth it. You can drive straight out of the box and then do the setup if you want to feel the difference. Proper minimum force settings are a big deal.

http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/2023748.page

The basic content is somewhat limited, but it should be enough to give you an idea of the physics. The MX5 is exactly what you'd expect, the Caddy is a powerful rear drive race car, and the Spec Ford is rear engined twitchy nightmare. Drive that to see what real lift off oversteer is like.

The oval racers are fun too, and give you a good appreciation of the skill involved in oval racing if you' haven't been exposed to it already. I was pleasantly surprised to see how different it is to the stereotypical "just go left" cliche.

Make sure to go and get some basic setups off the forums too after you've driven the base sets. Sometimes the base set is OK, mostly they're not great and others have done better, even if you're just starting out.

If you need help PM me. It's honestly been a while since I played iRacing because I have too many other games to play, but it's an incredible sim. I won't say it's absolutely the best, it has it's issues like any other game, but it's been consistently punching near the top of the class for years now.

 

[Lawndart]

Tip about iRacing, it really comes alive after 100+ laps, once your there and your brain is calibrated, it is the most authentic

AC is a wonderful product! Great guys too! I had the pleasure of joining them for breakfast twice during E3 last month and had fantastic discussions.

Its not me, its the people in this thread.

Btw having driven for nearly 3 hours in the 4 hours of Tsukuba, I know its probably spelled incorrectly. I have decided that I didn't give GT enough credit when I originally created this thread, because today I heard the noise that represented what I originally ranted about not being there. It is indeed tgere, but you can't feel it. There is no acknowledgement from the wheel that you are bouncing. Just the sound of the RPMs oscillating. I'm glad im able to change my vote after having experienced it in game.

Could someone with more experience try to explain to me whats happening and how I can minimize its effect as a driver?


This is approximately the same as what I do. Hear the bouncing/oscillating in the corners? What can I do to minimize that, it slows me down and is very stressful to my pressure points in the seat.

My guess is because GT6's bump FFB is generated from the suspension. Go Carts don't have any. But the lateral force might be from tires... Or canned effects. I've not spent much time in the carts.

 

[HKS racer]

Hear the bouncing/oscillating in the corners? What can I do to minimize that, it slows me down and is very stressful to my pressure points in the seat.

Looks like the tires are on a slippery surface not asphalt and slip angle is not working.
Maybe you can try to reduce rear tyres pressure. Tyres need to grip the surface and this slippery surface should require lower pressures.
If you can, try some ballast in the front.

 

[super_gt]

Another lift off oversteer lesson at the Nordschleife with FF car:



@sk8er913
I recommend you to try LFS,there is a free demo 👍

 

[sk8er913]

Looks like the tires are on a slippery surface not asphalt and slip angle is not working.
Maybe you can try to reduce rear tyres pressure. Tyres need to grip the surface and this slippery surface should require lower pressures.
If you can, try some ballast in the front.

I can't modify the car. Its a rental.

@Lawndart its more of a vertical force on the inside front than it is a horizontal one. Next time I go is on August 2nd and I'll get more information. I heard something similar on the exit of the 3rd harpin at Tsukuba in the Lexus CCS yesterday.


Also, can some of you explain your choice in the current poll, I would like to add this to OP.

My PC specs are:
CPU: 3.0 GHz AMD Athlon II x2 (B24)
GPU: ATI Radeon 4200
RAM: 8 GB

I can't run very many games.

 

[sk8er913]

I'm very disappointed with Simraceway. The feedback feels really good after 3 hours of tuning it. But the physics in this game are terrible, I spin everytime I tap the throttle. And when I countersteer it feels like it makes the car spin more quickly. And also the same only supports 360 degrees of movement instead of the full 900.

With the sims I have access to at the moment.

I would rank them:
1st: GT6 (2013 PS3)
2nd: Capo Petrabras de Marcas (2014 PC)
3rd: Simraceway (Physics updated 2013 PC)

To do list:
use wheel on 1999s Sports car GT (The predecessor of rFactor)

Update:
I played SCGT with a wheel, I thought this game felt good on a keyboard. I just hooked it up to a wheel. And omg it was amazing! The force feedback doesn't work correctly so I turned it off and played it without feedback. And wow it was surprisingly good. I felt my hands doing the same motions as in driving in real life.

Updated list:
1. GT6
2. SCGT (1999 pc, unfortunately the force back worked incorrectly, or it might've been number 1, haha)
3. Capo petrabras de Marcas
4. Simraceway

 

[Imari]

My PC specs are:
CPU: 3.0 GHz AMD Athlon II x2 (B24)
GPU: ATI Radeon 4200
RAM: 8 GB

I can't run very many games.

iRacing will run on a slightly mouldy potato. I'd check yourself against the minimum specs, I suspect you'll be fine or damn close. Not sure if there's a way for you to actually check whether it works before you sign up or not.

But as far as old sims you might want to check out with your potato, GTR2/GTR Evo and GT Legends are still pretty good. I'm a big GTL fanboy, there's just something fun about it.

rF1 should work fine. If you got away with running Capo Petrabras I assume you could run Game Stock Car, and since that's basically rF1 there should be no issues.

Race '07/Pro and it's millions of addons possibly. I haven't really played, but I've heard it's decent.

There was a period of quite a lot of good sims around about 7-10 years ago, and so your computer is probably top of the line by the standards of the time. Get into that stuff, if you can't get into the most modern ones. They're still pretty good by comparison to GT.

If you find yourself itching for more, a decent computer isn't as expensive as you might think. pCARS is a hog, and AC isn't much better, and something to run them decently is probably $1000. But you could get something very, very competent for the price of a new PS4 or X1, and play everything but those two. Or just turn everything down and cross your fingers.

http://www.logicalincrements.com/

I mention this only because what you're playing on looks...old. Might be time to accidentally spill some Coke in it and be forced to upgrade, if you know what I'm saying, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.

The sacrifices we make for gaming.

 

[Lawndart]

iRacing will run on a slightly mouldy potato. I'd check yourself against the minimum specs, I suspect you'll be fine or damn close. Not sure if there's a way for you to actually check whether it works before you sign up or not.

But as far as old sims you might want to check out with your potato, GTR2/GTR Evo and GT Legends are still pretty good. I'm a big GTL fanboy, there's just something fun about it.

rF1 should work fine. If you got away with running Capo Petrabras I assume you could run Game Stock Car, and since that's basically rF1 there should be no issues.

Race '07/Pro and it's millions of addons possibly. I haven't really played, but I've heard it's decent.

There was a period of quite a lot of good sims around about 7-10 years ago, and so your computer is probably top of the line by the standards of the time. Get into that stuff, if you can't get into the most modern ones. They're still pretty good by comparison to GT.

If you find yourself itching for more, a decent computer isn't as expensive as you might think. pCARS is a hog, and AC isn't much better, and something to run them decently is probably $1000. But you could get something very, very competent for the price of a new PS4 or X1, and play everything but those two. Or just turn everything down and cross your fingers.

http://www.logicalincrements.com/

I mention this only because what you're playing on looks...old. Might be time to accidentally spill some Coke in it and be forced to upgrade, if you know what I'm saying, wink wink, nudge nudge, say no more.

The sacrifices we make for gaming.

I transitioned to PC a little less than a year ago. And is roughly what I spent;
850 for an i5, 16gig, SSD, 750watt power supply.
602 for 3 29" Benq monitors (just 1080p)
79 for triple monitor mount
59 for fast track sims racing shoes (love these damn things, I wear them daily! Feel just like my race boots minus the ankle support (just get in the way with sim games)
Free Titan black, but you can get just as good for around 300 in the 9 series.

That's about it, full rig with triple screen, runs everything as fast as a game with triple screens can for around 1500. And I didn't try to hard searching for deals. And you can just use your TV to save more.

 

[Ettick]

I'm very disappointed with Simraceway. The feedback feels really good after 3 hours of tuning it. But the physics in this game are terrible, I spin everytime I tap the throttle. And when I countersteer it feels like it makes the car spin more quickly. And also the same only supports 360 degrees of movement instead of the full 900.

With the sims I have access to at the moment.

I would rank them:
1st: GT6 (2013 PS3)
2nd: Capo Petrabras de Marcas (2014 PC)
3rd: Simraceway (Physics updated 2013 PC)

To do list:
use wheel on 1999s Sports car GT (The predecessor of rFactor)

Update:
I played SCGT with a wheel, I thought this game felt good on a keyboard. I just hooked it up to a wheel. And omg it was amazing! The force feedback doesn't work correctly so I turned it off and played it without feedback. And wow it was surprisingly good. I felt my hands doing the same motions as in driving in real life.

Updated list:
1. GT6
2. SCGT (1999 pc, unfortunately the force back worked incorrectly, or it might've been number 1, haha)
3. Capo petrabras de Marcas
4. Simraceway

Stock Car Extreme (and CPdM by proxy) should just be a direct upgrade from rFactor's (and therefore SCGT's) physics since it's running on an improved version of the engine. And it should also be far more realistic than GT6 for a lot of reasons that I outlined in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

 

[sk8er913]

Stock Car Extreme (and CPdM by proxy) should just be a direct upgrade from rFactor's (and therefore SCGT's) physics since it's running on an improved version of the engine. And it should also be far more realistic than GT6 for a lot of reasons that I outlined in one of my earlier posts in this thread.

I need to drive on it again then. But its still amazing how good a 16 year old game is. Shows that you dont need a ton of processing power for a good racing sim.


I think simraceway is also based on rfactors physics, and that game is the real spinning simulator.