Tuner Garages

[Leonidae]

Ooh, so certain of victory you are? you might win in the laptime, but..

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I'm not certain, I know my car's better But some judges may think that because I use a wing it's not worthy, so we'll see. Nothing wrong with a road legal track day special. Anyway, good luck to both of us.👍

Might I just add here while I have a post going that I will test that Omega of yours when you fix the gears.

 

[Leonidae]

allright. I'm currently working on those.

edit: and done.. it would need ridiculous gearing to get rid of the wheelspin on first two gears, but meh.. too much torque keeps the Greenpeace busy.

 

[mustangGT90210]

Dark Blue 'Cuda, Check.
S3 tires, Check
No NA or Supercharger, Check
Tranny Settings, Check
Suspension, HOLY CRAP!!


Well, if you couldn't tell, I have a suspension to work out today. This car will make it in on time.

I hope I do good for my first "serious" tune.

 

[Vander]

I'm not certain, I know my car's better But some judges may think that because I use a wing it's not worthy, so we'll see. Nothing wrong with a road legal track day special. Anyway, good luck to both of us.👍

Might I just add here while I have a post going that I will test that Omega of yours when you fix the gears.

Your car maybe be better to you, remember though that better is a subjective term, what is better to you may not be better to everyone else.

There's nothing at all wrong with wings, we know the limitations of Gran Turismo and the horribly molded oversize wings are pretty much the biggest one. If downforce is desired use it.

Overall these competitions are about enjoyment though, so enjoy making the cars and I'll enjoy testing them, and the one I enjoy the most will by my winner, but fastest lap times aren't always the biggest factor.

 

[mustangGT90210]

Vintage Tuner Cup Entry 1964-1972

(438 Horsepower) (1576 Kg) (PWR 3.599) (Torque 539.65 ft.lb)
Torque measurement taken from status screen in garage, all other numbers from the car listings in the garage.
​

Parts To Buy
Racing Exhaust
Computer Chip
S3 Tires
Race Brakes
Brake Controller
FC Suspension
FC Trans
Triple Plate Clutch
Wing
Oil Change
New Wheels (Optional, recommended)

Settings
Brake Controller------> 2/14

================================
Suspension

Spring Rate------> 2.1/2.0
Ride Height------> 106mm/111mm
Bound------> 2/2
Rebound------> 7/8
Camber------> 2.0/0.0
Toe------> -3/2
Stabilizers------> 2/5

================================
Transmission

(NOTE: (Final to 5.500, Autoset to 25. Final to 4.362. Autoset to 14.)

1st---> 2.732
2nd---> 1.834
3rd---> 1.317
4th---> 0.939
5th---> 0.758
6th---> 0.642
Final--> 4.362
Autoset-> 14

================================
Downforce
30/29

================================
Details
She loves her wheelspin. Once you get a hang of taking the turns in 3rd instead of dropping to second, she will reward you with much faster times. Slight power over if you drop to 2nd and move back into 3rd at full throttle in turns. There is some slight understeer if you're not on your line.

This 'Cuda was tuned at GVS, with a fast lap of 2'07.087. Most of you are probably better than me, so I expect to see you guys shattering my time.

Enjoy!

EDIT: I almost forgot. TURN THEM DAMN AIDS OFF!

EDIT 2: I fixed Camber/Wing settings. New fast time.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Looking at it, I'm willing to say that it looks a bit too soft.

That and you could most likely get away with more rear camber and put it to use; unfortunately, the monster torque of the 440 6-pack means you need as much forward bite on the rear tires as possible, and that means less camber.

So it's all a big 'ol balancing game.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

7 hours, 40 minutes til the deadline folks! As soon as the deadline hits, judging begins.

To keep things moving along, the judging period is also going to be the submission period for the last three divisions. When the judging for Phase 1 finishes, the submissions for Phase 2 will all be in, so judging can roll right along!

I've got a really bad case of the flu, and since the mood could strike me at any time to medicate myself, curl up in bed in the fetal position, and pray for death, I'll be posting the judge's guidelines and entry list in just a few minutes. If there are any last second entries before the deadline tonight though, I'll edit them in in the morning.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Vintage Tuner Cup Judging, Phase 1
1963 and Earlier; 1964-1972

It's time, ladies and gentlemen. The first two divisions are closed, and we have an impressive stable of cars for you to consider!

Before we offer the entries, if you plan to judge a division, here are the ground rules.

-You must test ALL the cars in the division you are judging.

-You may test the cars as extensively as you like on as many tracks as you like, but you must have one 'control' track, which you know extremely well. For that track, run AT LEAST two clean laps, and submit your fastest lap time for each car on that track. (A 'clean' lap is one where at least two wheels remain on the track or curbing for the entire lap - no complete runoffs or spin-outs) Be sure that the control track you pick is a well-balanced track. Picking something like Citta d'Aria in a division that includes 'Cudas is just as unfair as picking a track like High Speed Ring in a division that includes Alfa Spiders.

-Make sure you have built each car exactly as its designer specifies - compare power and weight to the designer's post to ensure accuracy.

-Create a post detailing the results, grading each car on a scale of 100 available points. The criteria you are to use are:
(a) overall 'feel' of the car - how well it handles considering its chassis
(b) improvement over default settings - how much the tuner has improved the car. We suggest you drive the car first with all the equipment specified by its builder, but with no settings applied. This will give you a good idea of how much work the Tuner has done. Assume that if the builder includes a wing, that the default setting is 30/30, not 0/0. Keep in mind as you judge that not all classic cars can take wings. Also, assume that default settings for driving aids are 0,0,0. They aren't looked too highly upon as tuning tools.

Laptimes are not to be taken into consideration except in cases where cars feel nearly identical and you need a tiebreaker, or in cases where two tuners have entered the same car. In that case, only consider laptimes in relation to what parts the tuner has applied to each car.

The deadline for judging is Wednesday, February 20th at 11:59 PM U.S. Eastern Time!

All that said, it's time to get to it! Here are the entries, broken down by division, in order of entry date.

1963 and Earlier

ND 4 Holden Spd's Chevrolet Corvette C1 '54
CraftyLandShark's Lotus Elan S1 E.P. Special '62
nissan tuner's Jaguar E-Type Coupe '61
Greycap's Alfa Romeo Giulia Sprint Speciale '63
Leonidae's Mercedes-Benz 300SL-R '54

1964-1972

mafia_boy's Toyota Celica GT-TWO Rallye '70
GT40MKII's Plymouth 'Cuda '71
nissan tuner's Nissan 240ZG '71
Greycap's Lotus Europa Special '71
ND 4 Holden Spd's Isuzu Bellett 1600GT-R '69
Leonidae's NisMo Fairlady S-Tune '68
CraftyLandShark's Toyota 2000GTO Shelby Special '67
mustangGT90210's Plymouth 'Cuda '71

So there they are! Enjoy them, one and all, and please don't be shy to judge - we appreciate all the feedback we can get!

 

[mustangGT90210]

7 hours, 40 minutes til the deadline folks! As soon as the deadline hits, judging begins.

To keep things moving along, the judging period is also going to be the submission period for the last three divisions. When the judging for Phase 1 finishes, the submissions for Phase 2 will all be in, so judging can roll right along!

I've got a really bad case of the flu, and since the mood could strike me at any time to medicate myself, curl up in bed in the fetal position, and pray for death, I'll be posting the judge's guidelines and entry list in just a few minutes. If there are any last second entries before the deadline tonight though, I'll edit them in in the morning.

Vintage Tuner Cup Judging, Phase 1
(Shortened for space)

So you said we had 7 hours, 40 minutes, then come back with this second post 5 minutes later?? I was considering checking out the Camber degree like RJ said, I guess I can't now...

 

[CraftyLandShark]

No, you're fine - I hope to be in bed by the time the deadline hits tonight, that's why I said I'm posting the entry list and judge guide now. You still have until midnight to update your settings.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that - hydrocodone cough syrup is the devil

 

[mustangGT90210]

No, you're fine - I hope to be in bed by the time the deadline hits tonight, that's why I said I'm posting the entry list and judge guide now. You still have until midnight to update your settings.

Sorry if I wasn't clear about that - hydrocodone cough syrup is the devil

Alright. Thanks for the clarification. 7 hours left...

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Edited the Judging post to be more clear on that issue. Please bear with me for the next few days guys, I may be moving kinda slow, so if you have any questions or issues, it's best to PM them to me to make sure I see them.

Leo, you do mention briefly in the Fairlady S-Tune's description that it's based on the Fairlady 2000, but it might be good to include that in the boldface section at the top of your post since it's a relatively rare car.

 

[Leonidae]

Consider it done.👍

 

[mustangGT90210]

Thanks RJ on that Camber advice! Worked great! I also added a bit more front downforce.

 

[mafia_boy]

What the? Are you talking about the same 1600GT Celica you entered already? Your time at GVS with that car was in the 2'09s according to your post, and mine is in the 2'08s Now who's laughing, but I think I have more power, 230hp vs 154kw I think yours had, that's like what, 210ish hp.

Read back a dozen posts my friend from that point.....I have a new TRD spec that was 2.07's. And after the debate with Car-less on power, I feel like squashing some more lap times, if I can do 2.06's without too much trouble I'll be laughing.

Edit: What's the bigger brother? If it's an '80s Celica then you have my GNX to compete with, one of the biggest turn arounds in handling and general performance in all history, judges should note that when they test it I believe as it's one of the criteria for judging, not to mention it's running roughly 2min lap times on the dot which isn't terribly slow on sports tyres. It's even quite a fun drive, almost pleasurable- you can really step out the arse end of this car and smoke 'em up no worries, or you can drive it properly. I wouldn't be surprised if the GNX dropped more than 5sec off its default settings lap time. I wish I knew what that lap time was now, but I can't remember, oh well.

I was meaning 2000GT.
As for 80's Celica..............I'll give the ST165 a go, but it's not that quick from memory....I'd rather have the Supra take you on there in that class against the GNX.

I'm going to GVS now for testing Holdenboy. Run stock Celica, then TRD spec and show comparo.

*added bit* 5 1/2hrs of testing before it closes...............easy in on this.

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

I don't know if assuming the stock downforce as 30/30 is good, some people use a wing to control slides- others just up the initial torque. And I still think that lap times should play a small part in the judging.

 

[mafia_boy]

I just added more wing to increase cornering speeds. It was fine on 15/15 as it was, but then on 30/30 it goes through faster but it's a scarier ride. For the judging on times comparing to stock (25sec faster, can't go wrong there!!), so that's what I'm going with, but if it's for ease of driving then I urge the judges to go 15/15 with my car and have a more leisurely, but fun ride.

Mafs!!

*added bit* Also, just updated the car to TRD Spec from Rallye spec. Quicker allround.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

I don't know if assuming the stock downforce as 30/30 is good, some people use a wing to control slides- others just up the initial torque. And I still think that lap times should play a small part in the judging.

But if someone has included a wing in their tune, obviously SOME downforce is going to be applied somewhere, almost always more than less. It seems like it'd make more sense to have some downforce included as "default" rather than none - that'd be the same the car not having the wing at all.

Laptimes do play a part, when things are close. But you can't award a winged 7-liter muscle car extra points for a really quick laptime vs. an unwinged sub-2.0L.

 

[Vander]

I don't look at laptimes so much as improvement in lap times. First and foremost will always be the enjoyment of the ride, but I will be testing bone-stock to get an initial feel of for the car, which should also help me in identifying with why some parts were chosen while others were not. Then I will be running a stock test with all specified parts applied, and then finally the tuned version. I have conveniently enough been granted almost a full unadulterated week starting the sixth so I should be able to get rather 'into' this judging session

 

[nd 4 holden spd]

But if someone has included a wing in their tune, obviously SOME downforce is going to be applied somewhere, almost always more than less. It seems like it'd make more sense to have some downforce included as "default" rather than none - that'd be the same the car not having the wing at all.

Laptimes do play a part, when things are close. But you can't award a winged 7-liter muscle car extra points for a really quick laptime vs. an unwinged sub-2.0L.

Mmm, yet the muscle wins races And speed is what realistically determines a good car- that's why I'd still go with the judging criteria I mentioned
Overall feel: /40
Improvement over default: /45
Outright Speed: /15

That way even if a car was fast and handled like crap, it would do poorly- but the fact it was fast didn't go unrecognised. Then again, maybe speed will only play a larger role in the Club Racers category, where the idea is to make a car fast after all, with race tyres and presumably a wing.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

...And speed is what realistically determines a good car...

In a very limited context that's a partial truth, but if we're speaking "realistically", by your terms the Cizeta would be among the best cars in GT4. I don't think anyone here believes that

 

[Vander]

Hey CLS, are the first set of tuner entries finalized? I'd like to get started on my judging.

 

[CraftyLandShark]

Yep, there were no more entries before midnight and I didn't get any "please, I need an extension" PM's, so it looks like we're good to go! Thanks in advance for judging - I dare say getting all the cars together for this one is going to be a damn sight more time- and credit-consuming than it was in TCV2.

 

[mustangGT90210]

In a very limited context that's a partial truth, but if we're speaking "realistically", by your terms the Cizeta would be among the best cars in GT4. I don't think anyone here believes that

DOH! I sold my Cizetta! And don't remember how to get it back.

Yep, there were no more entries before midnight and I didn't get any "please, I need an extension" PM's, so it looks like we're good to go! Thanks in advance for judging - I dare say getting all the cars together for this one is going to be a damn sight more time- and credit-consuming than it was in TCV2.

I'll judge the 63 and Earlier division.

 

[Vander]

Yep, there were no more entries before midnight and I didn't get any "please, I need an extension" PM's, so it looks like we're good to go! Thanks in advance for judging - I dare say getting all the cars together for this one is going to be a damn sight more time- and credit-consuming than it was in TCV2.

Awesome, in that case let the judging begin!

 

[Leonidae]

Awesome, in that case let the judging begin!

you sure you don't mean "let the nailbiting begin"?

 

[CraftyLandShark]

you sure you don't mean "let the nailbiting begin"?

Amen to that ...

 

[CraftyLandShark]

mafia_boy, i just built your Celica while scoping out the competition

I think you may have left the Autoset value out of your gearing instructions. I can't get the ratios anything close to what you have listed with the default Autoset of 5.

<edit> Autoset 11 brings all those ratios into range - is that what you used?

<2nd edit> You list the FC LSD on your parts list but don't list any settings for it. Is it to be left @ default settings?

 

[mafia_boy]

I was too slow for my '63 and earlier, so I'll help judge this too since I'm entered in the other category.

Mafs!!