Turn 10 Confirms Microtransaction Plans for Forza 7

[AudiMan2011]

We knew it was coming, but here's Jim Sterling on FM7's Loot Box nonsense.

Spoiler: NSFW Language Warning.

 

[sems4arsenal]

We knew it was coming, but here's Jim Sterling on FM7's Loot Box nonsense.

Spoiler: NSFW Language Warning.

Nails it as always.

 

[eran0004]

Nails it as always.

Really? His argumentation boils down to this: "microtransactions is bad because we all know it". There is no deeper reasoning behind it.

 

[Northstar]

We knew it was coming, but here's Jim Sterling on FM7's Loot Box nonsense.

Spoiler: NSFW Language Warning.

So he has inside info? I haven't seen anything saying loot boxes will even be purchaseable with real money.

So there is certainly something pathetic in that video, only it's the person making it and not the company he calls pathetic.

 

[deththrasher]

So he has inside info? I haven't seen anything saying loot boxes will even be purchaseable with real money.

So there is certainly something pathetic in that video, only it's the person making it and not the company he calls pathetic.

I'll be shocked if they don't, though maybe this criticism will make them back off? I know some of you like anti-consumer practices for some very strange reason but thank god for people complaining about this ********. It worked in FM5 too.

 

[Northstar]

I'll be shocked if they don't.

People said similar things about wheel spins in FH3. You still can't buy spins with real money last I checked.

 

[eran0004]

I'll be shocked if they don't, though maybe this criticism will make them back off? I know some of you like anti-consumer practices for some very strange reason but thank god for people complaining about this ********. It worked in FM5 too.

What is the anti-consumer practice in this case?

 

[BuckFly]

While I don’t support the thought of micro transactions at all, even with the reduced payouts and loss of VIP bonus I think it’s not as bad as it looks (read my credit farming tips in the thread I posted here). As you grind through the drivers cup you get some very good cars from the showcases. As you increase in collector level the discount increases as well.

I’m now at the second round (more unlocked part) of the drivers cup and with only 3 showcases left to do (all endurance events) I got all these cars for free from showcases:

Spoiler: List from tier 5 towards tier 1 cars

Tier 5:
2005 Ford GT
1958 Aston Martin DBR1
2016 Aston Martin Vulcan
1989 Ferrari F40 Competizione
2014 Ferrari FXX K
2013 Lamborghini Veneno
1998 Mercedes-Benz AMG CLK GTR
2015 Nissan #23 GT-R LM NISMO
1998 Porsche 911 GT1 Strassenversion
2014 Porsche 918 Spyder

Tier 4:
1934 Alfa Romeo P3
2014 Audi #45 Flying Lizard Motorsports R8 LMS ultra
1967 Brabham BT24
2014 Chevrolet #3 Corvette Racing Corvette C7.R
2014 Mazda #70 SpeedSource Lola B12/80
2011 Porsche #45 Flying Lizard 911 GT3 RSR

Tier 3:
1989 Audi #4 Audi 90 quattro IMSA GTO
1985 Ford RS200 Evolution
2016 Ford GYMKHANA 9 Focus RS RX
2016 Ford Shelby GT350R

Tier 2:
2000 Ford SVT Cobra R
2017 Ford F-150 Raptor
1970 Volkswagen #1107 Desert Dingo Racing Stock Bug

Tier 1:
2013 Cadillac XTS Limousine
1975 Ford Bronco
2010 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor
2014 Ford Fiesta ST

The other 3 cars I will get from those endurance events I still got to complete are a Porsche 919 Hybrid, Ford GT LM GTE and a Honda Civic WTCC. Not sure what the reward will be for completing all 6 championships again, probably another 6 FE cars.

I’ve been doing open championships the most with the Nissan GT-R FE (50% CR bonus), otherwise any other FE car I have, and if even that was not possible then focus on a series that doesn’t have any FE cars at all (racing series mostly).

I’m now level 55, car tier 12 and my next level up rewards are 50k CR or 400k CR discount on a car. I don’t know why that CR reward got stuck at 50k (been long now) but at least the car discount number keeps increasing. Also with higher car tier the offers get better as well. Currently I’m staring at an IndyCar for my next reward, one that also passed by today was the McLaren P1 but even after the discount that was still over 800k CR which I didn’t have.

Some other of my stats:
171 races completed
139 cars in garage
16h50 time played

Only been playing the drivers cup so far. Not really interested in multiplayer, maybe I’ll play it a bit in the future when leagues are working.

I can't find your post, brey.

 

[Marqus]

So he has inside info? I haven't seen anything saying loot boxes will even be purchaseable with real money.

So there is certainly something pathetic in that video, only it's the person making it and not the company he calls pathetic.

Clearly, you stopped before you even reached the 3 and a half minute mark.

 

[ImaRobot]

Clearly, you stopped before you even reached the 3 and a half minute mark.

I didn't even bother opening the link, not that it matters since I don't have usable speakers here. Care to elaborate on it, then?

 

[Northstar]

Clearly, you stopped before you even reached the 3 and a half minute mark.

And?

I'm not wasting my time watching some random YouTuber that can't even manage to properly research something.

 

[breyzipp]

I can't find your post, brey.

Best farming of XP and credits whatsoever: (you need a VIP DLC car)


General farming tips while playing career :
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/this-game-is-making-me-a-worse-driver.360083/#post-11964214

If you are low on cars or credits I highly suggest following the second method from the video link as no doubt Turn 10 will hot-fix that soon, it's utterly destroying their micro-transitions model. I'm following that now and I'm now over level 190 with car collector tier 23 or something (and probably over half of all the tier 3 & 4 cars in my garage). Got my router towards the XBox One turned off so in case they hotfix it tomorrow I'll grind some more offline. Not planning to play to play this game as much as I did with FM6 but still want to get that garage filled.

 

[Marqus]

And?

I'm not wasting my time watching some random YouTuber that can't even manage to properly research something.

So you admit to not even getting to the point where he says for now you don't need real world money and just implies he's pathetic and doesn't do his research? That's on you.

 

[ImaRobot]

So you admit to not even getting to the point where he says for now you don't need real world money and just implies he's pathetic and doesn't do his research? That's on you.

Well, I'd certainly stick to that notion too. If he knows that bit of information already, but made the video anyways, then it seems fitting.

 

[FordGTGuy]

So you admit to not even getting to the point where he says for now you don't need real world money and just implies he's pathetic and doesn't do his research? That's on you.

Jim Sterling feeds off controversy, he has good content but he makes mountains out of molehills from time to time.

His video about how only ugly female characters are acceptable is just plain dumb.

Is he technically wrong? No. Is he being completely upfront about this situation? Not really, he is jumping on a controversy to drive his channel, like most media.

I made a thread on this very forum asking if anyone felt they needed the ability to spend real money to not feel stuck, we got a whole one yes.

There are quite a few that are just jumping up and down in hysteria while ignoring just how easy it is to make money in the game.

I'll be shocked if they don't, though maybe this criticism will make them back off? I know some of you like anti-consumer practices for some very strange reason but thank god for people complaining about this ********. It worked in FM5 too.

Giving people the option to pay to progress instead of investing time is actually pro-consumer, well... That's if you even knew what consumer meant.

Anti-consumer would be not giving a fair value for the price paid, that is honestly up to debate right now.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Double post.

 

[Lain]

Really? His argumentation boils down to this: "microtransactions is bad because we all know it". There is no deeper reasoning behind it.

What is the anti-consumer practice in this case?

No... his argument is that microtransactions are bad because they're exploitative attempts to milk the consumer for nothing of any real value (i.e. doesn't cost the devs a damn thing to give us) in return... which is true. And lootboxes prey on the same psychology as gambling, also true.

I dunno about you, but I consider that to be fairly anti-consumer.

People said similar things about wheel spins in FH3. You still can't buy spins with real money last I checked.

This is being disingenuous. You can't buy wheel spins, but these sure are an option: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/forza-horizon-3-tokens/9nblggh51c31/0100?wa=wsignin1.0

20000 for only $99.99, what a great value!

(wonder how many lootboxes those would buy in FM7...)

 

[Silver Arrows]

Well, I'd certainly stick to that notion too. If he knows that bit of information already, but made the video anyways, then it seems fitting.

Pretty typical of ol' Jim. He's a ****ing drama hound, and he was a right **** when he was asked about backing up his opinions on my time on NeoGAF.

I don't take his words with any sort of brevity anymore. Just another Youtuber.

 

[FordGTGuy]

No... his argument is that microtransactions are bad because they're exploitative attempts to milk the consumer for nothing of any real value (i.e. doesn't cost the devs a damn thing to give us) in return... which is true. And lootboxes prey on the same psychology as gambling, also true.

I dunno about you, but I consider that to be fairly anti-consumer.


This is being disingenuous. You can't buy wheel spins, but these sure are an option: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/p/forza-horizon-3-tokens/9nblggh51c31/0100?wa=wsignin1.0

20000 for only $99.99, what a great value!

(wonder how many lootboxes those would buy in FM7...)

Value is subjective and depends on the individual paying for it.

 

[Lain]

Value is subjective and depends on the individual paying for it.

Sure, somebody could appreciate the option of being able to pay to speed up progress... they might even see "value" in it. But they're still getting ripped off, because that progress speedup could easily be made available for free through cheat codes.

Somebody might value artisanal bottled water, which is completely fair even though many people might scoff at the idea and think it's a ripoff... that's subjective. But if that "artisanal water" you're buying is actually just your local tap water being bottled, then no... you are objectively getting ripped off.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Again, Jim's argument and the entire argument over microtransactions hold water, but lets be honest, if it isn't microtransactions, it's something else. Remember companies brief flirtations with online passes, shutting out those who bought used?

One company is going to find another way to get profits, and when they find said way, everybody else will follow. It's up to the consumer to fight back, and considering the many times gamers have fought back over micro transactions in every game under the sun, the trend will continue.

Though some of the stuff I'm seeing in this thread is absolutely, positively hyperbolic as can be.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Sure, somebody could appreciate the option of being able to pay to speed up progress... they might even see "value" in it. But they're still getting ripped off, because that progress speedup could easily be made available for free through cheat codes.

Somebody might value artisanal bottled water, which is completely fair even though many people might scoff at the idea and think it's a ripoff... that's subjective. But if that "artisanal water" you're buying is actually just your local tap water being bottled, then no... you are objectively getting ripped off.

Whether or not they are getting ripped off is up to them, reality of the matter is that it's really easy to get money in Forza 7.

 

[Lain]

Again, Jim's argument and the entire argument over microtransactions hold water, but lets be honest, if it isn't microtransactions, it's something else. Remember companies brief flirtations with online passes, shutting out those who bought used?

One company is going to find another way to get profits, and when they find said way, everybody else will follow. It's up to the consumer to fight back, and considering the many times gamers have fought back over micro transactions in every game under the sun, the trend will continue.

Though some of the stuff I'm seeing in this thread is absolutely, positively hyperbolic as can be.

So... doesn't it make sense for people like Jim to rally consumers into fighting back? To try and help people wake up and realize microtransactions aren't as benign as companies might try to make them seem? That microtransactions aren't really doing the consumer any favors, and only serve to serve to increase profits?

You say "if it isn't microtransactions, it's something else"... but you know damn well that they won't settle at microtransactions. We should continue giving companies a hard time over microtransactions, because we certainly don't need it being "microtransactions and something else". We don't need stuff like NBA 2K18 becoming accepted as the norm, only to have inventive new ways of trying to milk consumers foisted upon us.

And yeah @FordGTGuy I get it, Forza 7 is very generous with credits. My (and Jim's) beef is just with microtransactions in general, not necessarily Forza 7 specifically. I've bought Forza 7, downloading it as we speak... and I'm not going to hold the optional microtransactions against it if I don't feel they impact the overall experience.

 

[MXH]

I'm currently catching up on all 'controversies' around this game and I'm actually laughing my ass off right now. Good to see that the gaming industry still has absolutely no shame whatsoever.

Nice way to devalue the VIP membership and bascially ''trashing'' the reputation of the game. I'm guessing it safe to assume that all of this will carry over to FH4.

 

[eran0004]

No... his argument is that microtransactions are bad because they're exploitative attempts to milk the consumer for nothing of any real value (i.e. doesn't cost the devs a damn thing to give us) in return... which is true. And lootboxes prey on the same psychology as gambling, also true.

That's not an argument that he makes in the video.

The problem with his "reasoning" (if you can call it that) is that he assumes that all design changes are motivated by greed. Mod cards were introduced two years ago, and it's more likely that they made these changes to how they work because they didn't get it 100% right on the first try (nobody gets it right on the first try) rather than because of greed. Prize crates is a new feature, probably introduced because chance events and surprises are exciting. Yes, you CAN buy these crates for real money, but the important question is: do you have to? Is there a paywall or will you be able to afford them through the natural progression of the game? To call it a free to play economy it needs to be designed around a paywall. Simply adding an alternative way of obtaining credits does not make free to play.

I dunno about you, but I consider that to be fairly anti-consumer.

Go find that paywall and then we can talk about anti-consumer.

 

[Lain]

There doesn't need to be a paywall. Not even all genuinely free to play games have a paywall, the good ones find a way of making you want to pay without making you need to pay... such as for special cosmetics, which do have value. But tricking consum... er, excuse me, "giving consumers the choice" of paying for pure rubbish such as virtual currency to "speed up progress", whether necessary to progress in the game or not, is anti-consumer in my eyes. You're literally just looking to take people for a ride at that point, and it doesn't matter how you con them into it or whether they even realize they're being swindled.

 

[MXH]

Prize crates is a new feature, probably introduced because chance events and surprises are exciting. Yes, you CAN buy these crates for real money, but the important question is: do you have to? Is there a paywall or will you be able to afford them through the natural progression of the game? To call it a free to play economy it needs to be designed around a paywall. Simply adding an alternative way of obtaining credits does not make free to play.

Surely, but you're going to end up hampering the natural progression more or less anyway once you introduce microtransactions into your game. I mean, there has to be an incentive for players to spend real money, otherwise it's merely a waste of time and effort from the developer's side. They might have as well skipped it altogether then.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Lain]

Surely, but you're going to end up hampering the natural progression more or less anyway once you introduce microtransactions into your game. I mean, there has to be an incentive for players to spend real money, otherwise it's merely a waste of time and effort from the developer's side. They might have as well skipped it altogether then.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Maybe, but I imagine implementing microtransactions is a relatively low-cost affair, and there's no shortage of people who just cannot handle their money even if their life depended on it... so I'd think it would still be a profitable venture even if the game balance wasn't compromised.

That being said, Forza 7 does seem to being laying the groundwork for things to get worse in the future.

 

[CSLACR]

What all this means is that a significant portion of the game’s car lineup will be locked away for a very long time for many players. Forzathon prizes are up to Turn 10, and that leaves Prize Crates. Had the game kept the Wheel Spins of the last few titles, players could at least be rewarded with the chance to win a car. Now, they are to spend their hard-earned in-game credits — or possibly real money at some point, going by T10’s statement — and they might not even get what they want out of it.

are you kidding me?

For all of those saying "the microtransactions are optional"
Just wait until it isn't anymore. Knowing Microsoft, they'll do that eventually in order to "push" the customers that aren't buying them.

VIP credit perks are now consumable mods. Previously, VIPs received permanent credit boosts in Forza titles. Now, players receive enough to use for 25 races (or less, if they want to stack the mods). After that, one of the perks of VIP membership is gone for good.

Where can I get a refund? Just for once, may my hopes not be shot down every Motorsport release? Thanks.

N

There doesn't need to be a paywall. Not even all genuinely free to play games have a paywall, the good ones find a way of making you want to pay without making you need to pay... such as for special cosmetics, which do have value. But tricking consum... er, excuse me, "giving consumers the choice" of paying for pure rubbish such as virtual currency to "speed up progress", whether necessary to progress in the game or not, is anti-consumer in my eyes. You're literally just looking to take people for a ride at that point, and it doesn't matter how you con them into it or whether they even realize they're being swindled.

Ok, but listen to everyone gripe about FM6 having too good of an economy.

They fixed the economy, and everyone is pissed anyway.
Tokens are for people with cash to blow that can't wait another day, FM6 had tokens didn't it? Sure, everyone complained it was too easy to make money, but you can't make it harder, or else you're "pushing microtransactions".

 

[chris4652009]

Time to "unwatch thread" this hysteria over nothing is ridiculous.