tyre temperature

[TumeK5]

Oh my god, I'm laughing.

 

[jonoholland29]

I'm 99% sure that Gran Turismo used to do this? In GT5 maybe. They'd start blue, go green and then red if you were doing donuts etc or am I thinking of a different game? I only ever played F1 or GRID

 

[TumeK5]

I'm 99% sure that Gran Turismo used to do this? In GT5 maybe. They'd start blue, go green and then red if you were doing donuts etc or am I thinking of a different game? I only ever played F1 or GRID

GT1 through 4 had it where the tires in the HUD started as blue, then after a short time turn green, and eventually yellow, and finally red. It had nothing to do with tire temperature though, purely wear. Although, the tires being blue in the beginning would naturally suggest cold tires and them turning green means they're warmed up.

 

[LeftoverPizza]

As someone with a background in computer hardware engineering, take a break mate. There is functionally no difference between PC processors and console processors (at least for the last 2 generations) they accept difference instruction sets (though process them the same way) and have very slightly different low-level hardware access.

And what does this have to do with the PS5 console OS? Is that no factor? Guess what. It is! You as hardware engineer should also know that it's not just the proc that counts when it comes to overall performance. Well, at least I hope you do.

 

[Nuschel01]

The dashboard apps show surface temperature of the tires afaik

 

[TumeK5]

So what LeftoverPizza is trying to say is we had more powerful hardware than we do today. 🤔

 

[jonoholland29]

GT1 through 4 had it where the tires in the HUD started as blue, then after a short time turn green, and eventually yellow, and finally red. It had nothing to do with tire temperature though, purely wear. Although, the tires being blue in the beginning would naturally suggest cold tires and them turning green means they're warmed up.

yeah but then say after you did donuts they changed from red back to green no?

 

[TumeK5]

yeah but then say after you did donuts they changed from red back to green no?

No.

 

[Meythia]

So what LeftoverPizza is trying to say is we had more powerful hardware than we do today. 🤔

I mean, todays pocket calculators cant make us fly to the moon.
This was only possible with a room full of floppy discs.

 

[Nightwing24]

 

[pedrocor]

I'm 99% sure that Gran Turismo used to do this? In GT5 maybe. They'd start blue, go green and then red if you were doing donuts etc or am I thinking of a different game? I only ever played F1 or GRID

Until GT3 I believe the colours indicated tire wear, on GT4 already indicated temperature, if my memory serves well

 

[Meythia]

And what does this have to do with the PS5 console OS? Is that no factor?

No, its not a factor.
The OS has basically no effect on the hardware performance a gaming console can pull when a game is started.
This was even more true back on the old consoles that barely had any kind of "OS" but simply a boot up sequence right into a game.
This is a bit less true with todays consoles that try to provide some kind of multitasking, but the PS5 definitly sets priority to the game currently running over anything in the background (which tends to sometimes react rather slow).

 

[Famine]

It is an answer, but you choosing not to accept it as one, doesn't change that.

No. You're bringing no information or facts to the discussion, just hand-waving vague things that are easily disproven.

Comparing computers to game consoles and how games run on either platform is comparing apples with pears.
And by just comparing them hardware wise, you're just looking at the front door, disregarding the rest of the building.

Cool. Still not even coming close to answering anything.

It seems like you're insisting that games which clearly and obviously display tyre temperature and pressure simulations don't do so on console, because they're on console. Even games that are on PC and console, and where the console technologically outstrips the minimum and recommended specifications on PC (because it was launched in 2014, for decade-old PC builds) and also clearly and obviously display tyre temperature and pressure simulations in the console versions, have it stripped out for some reason even though they continue to clearly and obviously display it.

And now, for some reason, you're citing the PS5 operating system - an Orbis branch of the Linux-based FreeBSD - is the cause of these simulations being absent (at your own assertion) despite being claimed to be there by Kunos. Is Kunos lying? You won't answer that, but it needs asking.

PHYSICS:
– 400hz physics refresh rate.
– Improved tyre flex.
– Improved camber simulation, especially on high positive camber values.
– Improved Outside, Mid, and Inside tyre heating relative to camber.
– Improved Outside, Mid, and Inside tyre wear relative to camber.
– Improved camber gain simulation, affecting slip angles and forces. Evident with high camber values over kerbs and longitudinal bumps.
– Improved surface flash temperature tyre simulation. A wider range of heat generation.
– Improved heat generation in extreme conditions (burnouts, doughnuts).
– Improved heat generation relative to tyre pressure.
– Improved core temperature retaining. Tyres dissipate heat significantly slower now, no need to wait right until the last moment to go to the grid.
– Completely revised and improved combined grip simulation.
– Completely revised and improved tyre vibrations at high speed and high slip angles.
– Improved slip angle/ratio simulation relative to cold and overheating tyres.
– New viscoelastic rubber friction model.
– Improved dynamic tyre characteristics in various temperature conditions.
– New rubber bump stops damping simulation.
– Implemented bump stops damping values for all cars.
– Improved engine throttle simulation.
– Improved launch control.
– Improved rev limiter behaviour (soft limiters on some cars).
– Improved traction control simulation.
– Improved brake ducts heating influence simulation.
– Improved rain tyres behaviour (note: not necessarily easier).
– Improved the simulation of brake efficiency and power.
– Improved track grip simulation on and off the racing line.
– Improved ambient vs. track temperature delta.
– Added a condition that simulates mist and dew during the night in certain temperatures.
– Improved certain track condition simulation, including the speed of puddle formation.

Can you bring any facts to this at all, or are you just going to continue insisting your belief is correct in the face of all the actual information, because it's your belief?

 

[HGHTCH]

And what does this have to do with the PS5 console OS? Is that no factor? Guess what. It is! You as hardware engineer should also know that it's not just the proc that counts when it comes to overall performance. Well, at least I hope you do.

At this point you have already outed yourself, but as I am morbidly curious, other than processors, what are you referring to?

 

[i386]

the ps5 os is important, but considering that it's based on freebsd I wouldn't be concerned with performance on x86 based cpus. Unless sony or pd really mess it up
(Freebsd is used by netflix on their content delivery network, by different high performance routers/switches that build the internet backbone eg. the force10 stuff and a lot more)

an Orbis branch of the Linux-based FreeBSD

💩
freebsd has a license that is incompatible with linux. with linux sony would have to release the source code of the os

 

[Famine]

freebsd has a license that is incompatible with linux.

Yeah, that's one of the two fundamental differences - neither of which are particularly relevant to the concept that PS5 would have no trouble running ACC's tyre temperature/pressure simulations. And indeed does, despite assertions to the contrary...

 

[LeftoverPizza]

If you guys just want a blue/green/red graphical indicator on your screens, sure, the consoles can handle that fine. But that's got nothing to do with accurate tyre temps.
Now add in all the factors that determine when the indicator should display the corresponding color and keep track on those real time, all race all cars on it.
The game has to keep track on track temperatures, track surface changes, tyre conditions, brake conditions, changes in airflow and what not and then calculate how the car model would respond in any situation and keep the game running smoothly.

 

[TumeK5]

Please excuse our mortality. We simply could not comprehend this vast knowledge and wisdom that you possess. We thought we were right, but after having another read, I've changed my mind. These facts you've presented are actually quite convincing, it must be true!

We should never have doubted absolute knowledge. I hope you can forgive us one day, o' wise one.

 

[Famine]

If you guys just want a blue/green/red graphical indicator on your screens, sure, the consoles can handle that fine. But that's got nothing to do with accurate tyre temps.
Now add in all the factors that determine when the indicator should display the corresponding color and keep track on those real time, all race all cars on it.
The game has to keep track on track temperatures, track surface changes, tyre conditions, brake conditions, changes in airflow and what not and then calculate how the car model would respond in any situation and keep the game running smoothly.

Is Kunos lying then?

You still haven't brought any actual information that supports your assertion that the PS5 can't do what a high-end 2005 PC can do in this regard.

 

[HGHTCH]

If you guys just want a blue/green/red graphical indicator on your screens, sure, the consoles can handle that fine. But that's got nothing to do with accurate tyre temps.
Now add in all the factors that determine when the indicator should display the corresponding color and keep track on those real time, all race all cars on it.
The game has to keep track on track temperatures, track surface changes, tyre conditions, brake conditions, changes in airflow and what not and then calculate how the car model would respond in any situation and keep the game running smoothly.

It would also be nice if tracks weren't completely flat and could have bumps and elevation changes where rain could pool and affect the tyres differently, maybe the ps9 can handle that.

 

[LeftoverPizza]

Is Kunos lying then?

You still haven't brought any actual information that supports your assertion that the PS5 can't do what a high-end 2005 PC can do in this regard.

I haven't, because it's an absolute non discussion and useless comparison.

Also, I don't know who Kunos is or what he said. Neither do I care if he/she's right or wrong, or what he/she has to do with implementing accurate tyre temps in GT7.

 

[sonnyboychris]

Yes, I do.

That was an impressive doubling down lmao.

And now, for some reason, you're citing the PS5 operating system - an Orbis branch of the Linux-based FreeBSD - is the cause of these simulations being absent (at your own assertion) despite being claimed to be there by Kunos. Is Kunos lying? You won't answer that, but it needs asking.

I'm sure he read "FreeBSD" and wondered who got arrested.

 

[LeftoverPizza]

It would also be nice if tracks weren't completely flat and could have bumps and elevation changes where rain could pool and affect the tyres differently, maybe the ps9 can handle that.

I'd welcome that!

 

[HGHTCH]

I'd welcome that!

We can only dream.
In all seriousness, boot up a free copy of simhub and gt7 at the same time and pick a race display and be prepared to be blown away by all the fake news.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

@ Leftoverpizza Just stop way to much evidence against you.

Also Kunos is the developer behind Assetto Corsa which has sold over 28M copies and also the developer behind Assetto Corsa Competizione

 

[Nuschel01]

I haven't, because it's an absolute non discussion and useless comparison.

You wrote "I can't" wrong there.

 

[watto79]

If you guys just want a blue/green/red graphical indicator on your screens, sure, the consoles can handle that fine. But that's got nothing to do with accurate tyre temps.
Now add in all the factors that determine when the indicator should display the corresponding color and keep track on those real time, all race all cars on it.
The game has to keep track on track temperatures, track surface changes, tyre conditions, brake conditions, changes in airflow and what not and then calculate how the car model would respond in any situation and keep the game running smoothly.

I'm not sure that even you know what point you're arguing anymore. I sure don't.

It feels like this is some kind of retro PC Master Race thing but I may be wrong.

 

[lurkermostly]

GT4 does colour code tyre wear, not tyre temp. To indicate how much grip is left in each tyre.

Since then though, real world racing tyres are manufactured with a built in 'cliff'. - I think, but could be wrong, because of an issue involving Michelin tyres and a catastrophic Brazilian grand Prix race in the early '00s - So, modern racing tyres don't disintegrate like they used to. They just lose all grip, forcing driver to limp back to pits on the 3 tyres that still have some grip. Making races safer as the track doesn't get littered with tyre shrapnel. Marbles can't be avoided though.

I think that's how tyre wear is reflected in GT7.

The trick is, in my view, is to figure out when grip is gone and pit accordingly.

I'd say it's safe to assume tyre temp is ideal at start of the race - if it's even a factor in the game - but track temp is shown at warm-up.

 

[LeftoverPizza]

I'm not sure that even you know what point you're arguing anymore. I sure don't.

It feels like this is some kind of retro PC Master Race thing but I may be wrong.

You're absolutely right. I lost track along the way too.

Thanks for your good sense.

You wrote "I can't" wrong there.

nice try. not biting.

 

[Famine]

I haven't, because it's an absolute non discussion and useless comparison.

It's also your assertion: that AC can do it on a 2005 PC build, but not a PS5/XSX despite Kunos saying it does.

Also, I don't know who Kunos is or what he said. Neither do I care if he/she's right or wrong, or what he/she has to do with implementing accurate tyre temps in GT7.

Kunos is the developer of Assetto Corsa and Assetto Corsa Competizione, with both titles simulating tyre temperature and wear on both PC and PlayStation/Xbox versions. Which you say cannot be done, because consoles don't have the "resources and power" of an 18-year old PC.

Do you believe the consoles also cannot handle it when running AC/ACC, where tyre temperature and pressure (and brake temperature and surface temperature) is more overtly displayed?

Yes, I do.

So is Kunos lying?