Tyre wear..

[BangsMcCoy]

4 races, same results. Tires are melted by the 4th lap on every road car I drove. My overall times are up 1:30-2:00 in every race. Where I used to be able to handle 1-2 bars of water on RH’s, at a reduced speed of course, now results in an uncontrollable loss of traction and if I come to a dead-stop, can not do anything but spin like a top without engaging TCS. If one of these events leads me into even the slightest contact at the slightest speed with a wall/rail, my vehicle is HEAVILY disabled to the point of barely drivable when coupled with little to no traction.

I don’t doubt that some of you are noticing marginal changes with racing cars, which is what all this was targeted at I suspect. However, those marginal changes are magnified exponentially with road cars.

Well that really sucks. I rarely use road cars in races that have fuel consumption or tire wear on, but it looks like that’s not really an option moving forward, at least until they dial this back, assuming they even bother to. I was fortunate enough to have back to back races at Sarthe that the track surface water gauge never went above the first bar, but my RH held up just fine at 1 bar as previously in the WRX. No rain that amounted to anything on the track with the Tundra.

But your mention of using TCS reminded me that using TCS1 now feels oddly enjoyable, I must say. I noticed I can really power slide rather easily and maintain controlled drifts with Sport tires in rear wheel drive cars in racing events now using it. Before there was a night and day difference between TCS0 which usually resulted in spin outs trying to do this and TCS1 where this wasn’t really possible because it prevented it, but now it feels like TCS1 is a happy medium between the two. It kinda makes things more fun or at least interesting for those races for me, but I admit this isn’t exactly what people want to help them compete in events where they don’t have generous leads or tire wear is a factor and can afford to lose time/tread doing that.

 

[TRB1999]

I came to the conclusion that it the tires indeed seem to wear quicker, but the actual degradation effects kick in when the tires are almost dead. I was able to do one seven-lap run in the Le Mans WTC700 in an “RM” 2023 Nissan Z on one set of RHs, pitting every two laps with the fuel map on 4. Yes, I had a race with very little rain. Shocking.

It seems more visual than anything for race cars and RM road cars with slicks at least.

 

[BigSarj]

If anyone has issues, maybe this will help.

 

[jhuizinz]

Directly from the patch notes: "Adjusted the simulation for tire heat generation"

So I've had a thought regarding this, hear me out...

IRL suspension geometry plays a huge factor in tyre temperatures and by extension tyre wear rates & wear "even-ness". More specifically, poorly/incorrectly set camber usually plays a massive part in this (as does brake bias).

I'm wondering if camber suddenly has a more pronounced effect due to the updated tyre heat generation model... If this is the case, it could actually be a very very useful tool for geometry tuning as a "correct" degree of negative camber will result in the most ideal contact patch through cornering giving better grip levels as well as reduced wear rates!

Usually (again IRL) you want to take tyre temps at three locations (inside, centre, and outside of the tyres' tread) to ascertain whether each wheel needs an increase or reduction of negative camber which we obviously can't do, however by running test laps while taking note of tyre wear rates across a range of camber settings the same information could be extrapolated through bracketing.

This is speculative, of course, but it could also explain why some people claim tyre wear rates are fine/unchanged while others swear there have been drastic changes. This very thread has empirical evidence of the former, while over here we find the general consensus agreeing to the latter.

Unfortunately I'm down a PS5 at the moment, but if anyone here is willing to run a few test laps to either prove or disprove this hypothesis it would both be super appreciated, and also potentially very useful information for literally everyone!? I'd suggest something similar to the following for a Gr.3/Gr.4 car, with the tyre wear rate set low enough to get a good number of laps (10+) before reduced grip is severe enough to notice:

• All four tyres at 0° camber
• All four tyres at 2.5° negative camber
• All four tyres at 5.0° negative camber

These upper and lower bounds are likely wild enough to have a noticeable effect (assuming camber is our culprit), while 2.5° being moderate enough for a (hopeful) reduction in wear. Either way it'll prove or disprove this whole idea...

 

[Madmaz]

This can’t be right 100% wear on the left but I can still drive the car it should be undriveable I even got a 1:35 just before 100% wear , this is confusing !!

 

[sodazman]

The tyre wear definitely has increased compared to before, it's not just the graphics. The grip level has also reduced in braking distances - laterally it's about the same. Also can I mention how sensitive the damage model is now - you get tapped by the AI and your steering is literally F*ED up for 20 plus seconds. PD have managed to make the grind even more unpleasant.

 

[Madmaz]

The tyre wear definitely has increased compared to before, it's not just the graphics. Also can I mention how sensitive the damage model is now - you can tapped by the AI and your steering is literally F*ED up for 20 plus seconds. PD have managed to make the grind even more unpleasant.

Yeh agree with damage way too sensitive , this game keeps going from bad to worse imo

 

[BEBOP_Bill]

The infographic has changed, the "scale" has a bigger "range" of red now, is a documented change of this update, to allow us a better reading of the wear. The performance drop, distance wise, shouldn't be much different, just you can go deep in the red/white proportion.

Some people say they performance drop is faster, my only tire degradation race since update was on Tokyo Expressway, with the AM DP-100 and my two fastest laps on a non stop were the last two, when usually the last two laps the front tires were gone already. Definitely more grip with much more red on the graphic.

Also, there were some changes on MR cars physics, that also could have an effect on tire degradation.

This, that is my understanding of the change. It does make it much better to read your tires now, at least in my opinion. It was always odd to have not even 50% red and feel like the tires are completely gone. Not it only feels that way once the gauge is completely red. They mentioned something about the way the tires heat was changed, but again, that my just be a change to the gauge, as the notes state only making it easy to read what your tires are doing.

 

[Madmaz]

This, that is my understanding of the change. It does make it much better to read your tires now, at least in my opinion. It was always odd to have not even 50% red and feel like the tires are completely gone. Not it only feels that way once the gauge is completely red. They mentioned something about the way the tires heat was changed, but again, that my just be a change to the gauge, as the notes state only making it easy to read what your tires are doing.

Thing is now you only lose grip once the tyre wear is showing completely red , there is no gradual loss of grip , so all stratagy goes our the window now you just wait till it’s all red to change , there is no feeling of should I change my tyres am I losing grip , because until the wear is 100% the car handles ok is quite drivable

 

[sumbrownkid]

Thing is now you only lose grip once the tyre wear is showing completely red , there is no gradual loss of grip , so all stratagy goes our the window now you just wait till it’s all red to change , there is no feeling of should I change my tyres am I losing grip , because until the wear is 100% the car handles ok is quite drivable

I think the new tire model behaves closer to what real race tires do, because race tires tend to have consistent grip until the tread has really worn down. It didn’t really make sense to me that on hards with 50% tread left means 50% less grip. Now the indicator just means how much tread is left.

What PD really needs to do, like I and others have mentioned, is that they need to ease up on the tire wear rates in the races now as 8x, 10x etc, are just overkill to the point running softs and mediums are pointless.

 

[Boxster]

I think the new tire model behaves closer to what real race tires do, because race tires tend to have consistent grip until the tread has really worn down. It didn’t really make sense to me that on hards with 50% tread left means 50% less grip. Now the indicator just means how much tread is left.

What PD really needs to do, like I and others have mentioned, is that they need to ease up on the tire wear rates in the races now as 8x, 10x etc, are just overkill to the point running softs and mediums are pointless.

This.

 

[pedrocor]

Thing is now you only lose grip once the tyre wear is showing completely red , there is no gradual loss of grip , so all stratagy goes our the window now you just wait till it’s all red to change , there is no feeling of should I change my tyres am I losing grip , because until the wear is 100% the car handles ok is quite drivable

That's correct. I only tried Tokyo with the DP-100, but now tested Sardegna with two of my go cars, the CLK-LM and the Mazda 787B. No real loss of grip until the graphic went completely red on the right front, then was just
(literally) crawling back to the pits to put new rubber. Before I could do the all 15 laps with the same rubber, only pitting for fuel on lap 12 (on the 787B). But no real loss of grip until the middle of 12th lap.

I think the new tire model behaves closer to what real race tires do, because race tires tend to have consistent grip until the tread has really worn down. It didn’t really make sense to me that on hards with 50% tread left means 50% less grip. Now the indicator just means how much tread is left.

What PD really needs to do, like I and others have mentioned, is that they need to ease up on the tire wear rates in the races now as 8x, 10x etc, are just overkill to the point running softs and mediums are pointless.

Not quite, but depends on the tire manufacturer and the kind of race they are intended to. The F1 Pirelli's are kind of like that, just add an extra punch of grip on the first two or three laps then a step for tire 'life' and a huge drop after that.
On other hand, NASCAR Goodyear's loose grip constantly lap after lap.

 

[bigmull]

Tyre wear is definatly increased.I could get a whole Le Mans 30 min race in the dry on a set of RH on the DB3s.Now i can barely get 3 laps.As for rain,as soon as there is a hint of moisture unless youre on Inters or Full Wets your driving on ice.Also on certain parts of the Le Mans track,after it has dried out it suddenly seems to have a coating of ice!Racing Inters just dont seem to wear out even in the dry.Also whatever they did to the Suspension and LSD has messed things up.I spent about 4 hours trying to get the DB3s handling back to preupdate level to no avail.When braking,the car is all over the place like a madwomens ****!I consistently got laps at Le Mans in the Dry of 4 mins 11 to 4 mins 20,now i am lapping at least 10 slower than preupdate,so they have FUBARed stuff up royally.

 

[sumbrownkid]

@pedrocor

Maybe perhaps they based it on Michelin’s tires in WEC? Maybe I’m wrong but they tend to go for a long time while maintaining consistent lap times. Perhaps PD’s partnership with Michelin is coming into play.

 

[Nielsen]

Before the 1.20 update it was possible to complete events like WTC700 Le Mans and WTC800 Sardegna on the same set of hard tires without even coming close to killing the tires. Not anymore.

Furthermore, the wear rate no longer feels as progressive as before. Suddenly the grip just disappears completely as if the rubber goes from being decent to non-existent in a matter of seconds. Is this how real tires perform before they finally fall apart? Genuine question.

I don’t really understand why this change was necessary, as the tire wear simulation across different compounds has been one of the more admirable things about GT7. I especially like how the amount of surface water at different parts of the track really affects the longevity of intermediate and full wet compounds. Now it’s like strategies have to be rediscovered.

PD probably started to feel regular players had gotten too comfortable farming credits out of habit. Something that must have caused sleepless nights among PD’s clueless MTX masterminds.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

Usually (again IRL) you want to take tyre temps at three locations (inside, centre, and outside of the tyres' tread) to ascertain whether each wheel needs an increase or reduction of negative camber which we obviously can't do, however by running test laps while taking note of tyre wear rates across a range of camber settings the same information could be extrapolated through bracketing.

This is just another reason we really need a Forza-style telemetry HUD. Forza has had it since at least FM2 in 2007, and it's an incredibly useful tool for tuning. If PD wants tuning to be important in GT7, they need to provide proper tools for it.

In Forza, you can see the 3 tire temps, current camber, etc. Tires not heating correctly? You can see it very clearly. You don't need to guess based on tire wear rates.

It's useful for far more than this, and contains plenty more stats, but that's getting beyond my knowledge and the point of this thread. Still, PD could take some notes.

 

[jhuizinz]

This is just another reason we really need a Forza-style telemetry HUD. Forza has had it since at least FM2 in 2007, and it's an incredibly useful tool for tuning. If PD wants tuning to be important in GT7, they need to provide proper tools for it.

In Forza, you can see the 3 tire temps, current camber, etc. Tires not heating correctly? You can see it very clearly. You don't need to guess based on tire wear rates.

It's useful for far more than this, and contains plenty more stats, but that's getting beyond my knowledge and the point of this thread. Still, PD could take some notes.

Agreed! Proper telemetry would be amazing, and in its absence tuning in GT requires a bunch of guesswork/experience specifically within the context of GT...

I hope PD hasn't actually implemented a closer-to-real-life tyre wear physics model [without telemetry] if suspension geometry is playing a bigger part, because this is only going to create a severe disadvantage and frustration for players who either don't care for tuning, or don't understand it and are given zero aids to assist in learning... The ultra vague descriptions in the settings menus simply aren't enough. It's not very inspiring for what could be aspiring tuners.

 

[AutumnalGlow]

Agreed! Proper telemetry would be amazing, and in its absence tuning in GT requires a bunch of guesswork/experience specifically within the context of GT...

I hope PD hasn't actually implemented a closer-to-real-life tyre wear physics model [without telemetry] if suspension geometry is playing a bigger part, because this is only going to create a severe disadvantage and frustration for players who either don't care for tuning, or don't understand it and are given zero aids to assist in learning... The ultra vague descriptions in the settings menus simply aren't enough. It's not very inspiring for what could be aspiring tuners.

I'm in that group. I don't really care for tuning, and don't understand it much either, but if the game provides the tools to figure it out I'll still tinker if needed. I've done this in Forza a few times, and it's definitely nice to get it right. I wouldn't bother in GT7. I've got no way to figure out with how little I really understand, and I'm not going out of my way to learn how it works in real cars just because it might be accurately modeled in-game.

 

[05XR8]

I think the new tire model behaves closer to what real race tires do, because race tires tend to have consistent grip until the tread has really worn down. It didn’t really make sense to me that on hards with 50% tread left means 50% less grip. Now the indicator just means how much tread is left.

What PD really needs to do, like I and others have mentioned, is that they need to ease up on the tire wear rates in the races now as 8x, 10x etc, are just overkill to the point running softs and mediums are pointless.

I’ve always wanted to see them use the surface data for wear, rather than the multipliers. This way, air temperature, time of day have more of an effect. If Bathurst(having been repaved) is smooth, it’s better to see how tyre wear will be in different scenarios(dawn or cloudy at noon).
If Catalunya is abrasive, players can gauge what wear is like on a sunny day at high noon. No need for multipliers.

 

[SuperSportX]

Tire wear is 100% not just visual because I used to be able to do Sardegna a whole run without changing the RH tires in both variations of the F1 GTR, CLK LM and other cars, by lap 7 my rear right tired was completely red on the 1997 F1 GTR and the car kept trying to slip out because of it.

 

[jergto]

The only good news is if Kaz and PD keep ****ing this up, I will definitely sell for profit since Sony is upping the price on consoles and theres already a shortage.

I know I wont be the only one, good riddance.

 

[Madmaz]

Before the 1.20 update it was possible to complete events like WTC700 Le Mans and WTC800 Sardegna on the same set of hard tires without even coming close to killing the tires. Not anymore.

Furthermore, the wear rate no longer feels as progressive as before. Suddenly the grip just disappears completely as if the rubber goes from being decent to non-existent in a matter of seconds. Is this how real tires perform before they finally fall apart? Genuine question.

I don’t really understand why this change was necessary, as the tire wear simulation across different compounds has been one of the more admirable things about GT7. I especially like how the amount of surface water at different parts of the track really affects the longevity of intermediate and full wet compounds. Now it’s like strategies have to be rediscovered.

PD probably started to feel regular players had gotten too comfortable farming credits out of habit. Something that must have caused sleepless nights among PD’s clueless MTX masterminds.

agree with this totally , as regards your question , im no tyre expert but F1 uses racing tyres and i quite often hear the drivers saying they are starting to lose grip , so I would say it should be a gradual process , like it was before 1.20 and not fall of the cliff in a matter of seconds like it does now when its 100% worn, I personally think thats unrealistic.

It didnt need to be changed just another cock up

 

[Boxster]

I have noticed something in my Spa 1 hour race today. A number of AI cars start the race on RMs, then pit after about 6 laps. They still have one third fuel and there was no rain. So their medium tires have worn apparently.
PD does not seem to have realised the speed of tire wear which their changes have caused. Otherwise they would have changed the AI tire strategies, which are now invalid. So my guess is they screwed up the change. I hope they will make some adjustments next update

 

[bigmull]

In this video preupdate you can see the minimal tyre wear on RH on the DB3s at Le Mans,you can also see how stable it is under hard braking just before the first chicane,now its veering all over the place under any braking and the roadholding has dropped off dramatically!One thing i also have noticed is that i am now getting time penalties where before the update i rarely got any unless i stuff something up and veer of course.This is a full race so feel free to skip through it to see the salient points.(yes i know i have all the Driving Assists on,but at 63 the eyes and memory arent what they were and the arthritis in my hands doest help especially when i am called on for rapid and nifty fingerwork)

 

[Boxster]

Bathurst GR3 mission excessive tire wear is now in the known issues list. Will be fixed in future update.
I hope they will adjust tire wear in other races too.

 

[GTboyz]

In this video preupdate you can see the minimal tyre wear on RH on the DB3s at Le Mans,you can also see how stable it is under hard braking just before the first chicane,now its veering all over the place under any braking and the roadholding has dropped off dramatically!One thing i also have noticed is that i am now getting time penalties where before the update i rarely got any unless i stuff something up and veer of course.This is a full race so feel free to skip through it to see the salient points.(yes i know i have all the Driving Assists on,but at 63 the eyes and memory arent what they were and the arthritis in my hands doest help especially when i am called on for rapid and nifty fingerwork)

What I do to counter the instability during braking is just tapping on the gas, somehow it works. Can be scary when it's veering left and right though lol

 

[Fezzik]

Bathurst GR3 mission excessive tire wear is now in the known issues list. Will be fixed in future update.
I hope they will adjust tire wear in other races too.

I doubt it. That one was a special case because you can’t make a pitstop.

 

[RacingFan1]

The cliff thing is quite good and well made I think.
However now it seems tire wear is far more similar if you drive agressive and if you drive smooth, so you can't nurse the tires nearly as much by driving smoothly? Anyone?

 

[KaiB]

At around 95% red there is basically no traction anymore, at least this far down it is not as accurate as a "reworked" gauge would have make me wish for. But up to that point tyres are very similar by lap times.
Still tyre wear has increased, cant finish a no stop mission anymore the same way as it was possible before, missing 5 minutes of 60 is at least an increase of 15% - at that point now they are gloing red whereas before the update the same car was finishing without any traction loss (even putting 2 laps more on the distance).
So now is: slower and more downwear in total, but as long as grip is there, grip is more stable (even if less than the old optimal traction).

Yes, cause in RL tires have an optimal "window", what happens now is that the multipliers will reduce the drop off window after the optimal window ends.
Its one of those things that have to be tested, the best test its to put 1x multipier and see how long the tires last after the loss of performance starts to kick in.

10x probably tires only last 1 or 2 laps after performance start to fade and will be like flat tires...

At 1x that window probably will increase and people can do more laps, 10 more in theory until all the grip is lost.
Before people could do more laps cause you could drive the car but the lap times after some wear were slower.
Now you can have more consistent lap times when the tyre its in its optimal window and a very fast drop off cause of the multipiers compared to previous tyre wear system.

Also it seems tyre degradation its more dinamic, if patch notes are correct it seems camber/toe etc can have an impact in temperatures and degradation.
In open setup races people probably have to take that into account cause they will need a qualy setup and a race setup.

 

[Kean_1]

Bathurst GR3 mission excessive tire wear is now in the known issues list. Will be fixed in future update.
I hope they will adjust tire wear in other races too.

Yeah, I like the new, revised tire wear and even damage mechanic but they need to adjust for the former by dialing down the multiplier in some races.