UAP and Skinwalker Ranch News and Discussion

[Dotini]

In my humble opinion, it is very hard to overstate how well connected Popular Mechanics is to industry and government military and intelligence sources over many decades, even generations. They have been consistent and effective at debunking conspiracy theory and quackery. But now the intriguing thing is they have been doing some of the breaking news in disclosure of anomalous phenomena. The old news is that the US government has been investigating the phenomena for 70 years, and that the phenomena is confirmed by the US Navy as real and unknown. The new news is that the US Army is set to benefit from technology recovered from the phenomena.

The Army will provide “laboratories, expertise, support, and resources to help characterize the technologies and its applications.”

“Our partnership with TTSA serves as an exciting, non-traditional source for novel materials and transformational technologies to enhance our military ground system capabilities,” said Dr. Joseph Cannon of Army Futures Command in the press release.
“At the Army's Ground Vehicle Systems Center, we look forward to this partnership and the potential technical innovations forthcoming.”

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...-mysterious-technology/?utm_source=reddit.com
The Army and a UFO Group Are Investigating...Something

What's going on here?

By Kyle Mizokami
Oct 17, 2019

ULLSTEIN BILD DTL.GETTY IMAGES

• The U.S. Army has joined To The Stars Academy of Arts and Science, a UFO research group, to investigate UFO technology.
• To The Stars is the same group that released the UFO videos that the Navy confirmed were real.
• We have questions. Lots of 'em.

The U.S. Army and a prominent UFO research group are teaming up to investigate mysterious technology, but won’t come out and say where the tech comes from.

To The Stars Academy of Arts and Science, the organization led by former Blink-182 member Tom DeLonge, will work with the Army to “characterize” technology under the organization’s control, and then use the tech to improve military vehicles. We have a lot of questions about this bizarre partnership, starting with the most important: Where did the technology come from?

To The Stars, which released the infamous Navy-confirmed UFO videos, made the announcement today on its website, saying it has entered into a “Cooperative Research and Development Agreement (CRADA) with the U.S. Army Combat Capabilities Development Command to advance TTSA’s materiel and technology innovations in order to develop enhanced capabilities for Army ground vehicles.”

CRADAs are a form of joint research agreement between an agency of the federal government and research organizations, particularly academia, in which the feds provide “laboratories ... personnel, facilities, equipment or other resources with or without reimbursement.”

According to multiple definitions of CRADAs on federal websites, the transfer of federal funding is prohibited.

TTSA describes its contribution to the agreement as “technology solutions” that include “material science, space-time metric engineering, quantum physics, beamed energy propulsion, and active camouflage.”

In 1966, a 13-year-old boy was walking his dog and reportedly took this photo of a flying saucer in Wall Township, New Jersey. He showed it to the Army, but no comment was made by the military.
BETTMANNGETTY IMAGES

The Army will provide “laboratories, expertise, support, and resources to help characterize the technologies and its applications.”

“Our partnership with TTSA serves as an exciting, non-traditional source for novel materials and transformational technologies to enhance our military ground system capabilities,” said Dr. Joseph Cannon of Army Futures Command in the press release.
“At the Army's Ground Vehicle Systems Center, we look forward to this partnership and the potential technical innovations forthcoming.”

Where did TTSA’s impressive list of technology come from? The implicit answer is: UFOs, also known as Unexplained Aerial Phenomena (UAPs).

UFO/UAP traditionally means anything we spot in the sky that's unusual. But here's the thing: Swamp gas and Venus sightings don't leave behind technology that's so advanced, it needs to be "characterized" by the federal government.

Whatever this technology is, and even To The Stars apparently isn't quite sure, it comes from what we commonly call flying saucers.

According to The New York Times, the Pentagon spent $22 million between 2008 and 2011 on the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), an organization tasked with looking into UFOs. The program reportedly stored “metal alloys and other materials" that Luis Elizondo, then the director of the AATIP and now the director of global security and special programs at To The Stars, said had been "recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena."

In July, we reported that TTSA acquired “several pieces of metamaterials” sourced from “an advanced aerospace vehicle of unknown origin.” The organization claims it can track ownership of the materials all the way back to the mid-1990s. Exactly where the materials came from is anyone's guess.

Lights in the morning sky over Coast Guard Air Station Salem, Salem, Massachusetts, July 16, 1952. The lights, speculated to be UFOs, were photographed by US Coast Guardsman Shell R. Alpert and witnessed by fellow Coast Guardsman Thomas E. Flaherty.
TIME LIFE PICTURESGETTY IMAGES

It’s hard to know what to make of all this. The Army obviously thinks there's something worth sticking its reputation out for, but there isn't any evidence available to the public to justify its association with a UFO research group.

Funding research into UFOs is one thing, and the U.S. government has done it multiple times over the past 70 years. Expecting actual technology samples from UFOs is another thing. Agreeing to do research and development work on them is something else entirely.

If—and it’s a big if—this technology could be ported over to the military, could it give U.S. troops an advantage on the battlefield? Yes, although at best, that advantage might be no better than giving a caveman’s spear a titanium shaft.

At worst, the technology could prove unreplicable by our modern standards. If you went back in time and gave Benjamin Franklin an iPhone, he would certainly find it fascinating, but be completely unable to duplicate it—and that’s with a time difference of just over 200 years. UFOs, if they are indeed from another world, could be thousands of years ahead of us.

Could To The Stars technology list benefit the Army? Theoretically, yes. “Material science” could lead to tougher, lighter materials able to better resist enemy fire. “Beamed energy propulsion,” which sounds like the use of microwaves or lasers to transfer energy, could enable drones to fly longer. “Active camouflage” sounds like a mimetic camouflage system such as that used by squid or even the Predator.

But does TTAS actually have this technology? Well, we’re just going to have to wait and see.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...-mysterious-technology/?utm_source=reddit.com

Bonus video
In July 1952, the capital of the US, population about 800,000, was overflown by numerous unknown objects over two successive weekends. The objects were photographed, filmed, tracked on radars from several commercial and military airfields, and chased by fighter jets.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_Washington,_D.C._UFO_incident

 

[Dotini]

The US Army wants to verify TTSA’s UAP material claim.

The Army here is presenting as a simple statement that TTSA has "materiel and technology innovations," not that they might have them.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...cademys-fantastic-ufo-mystery-material-claims

Edit:

I can confirm that at least some of the source material was retrieved from crash remnants or materials sourced from UFOs. Analysis of these UFOs suggests they are enabled with space-time, cloaking, transmedium travel, and gravity manipulation capabilities.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...to-study-ufo-material-and-make-better-weapons

TTSA
A purported metamaterial that TTSA has acquired.'

SA, here.

On Oct. 18, 2019, the GVSC released a copy of the 26-page formal CRADA document, titled "Novel & Emerging Technology Exploitation (NETE)," to us with some minor redactions to remove the contact phone numbers of the parties involved.




WHAT WE KNOW ABOUT THE ARMY TEAMING UP WITH ROCKSTAR TOM DELONGE'S UFO RESEARCH COMPANYBy Joseph TrevithickPosted in THE WAR ZONE
SCIENTIST BEHIND THE NAVY'S "UFO PATENTS" HAS NOW FILED ONE FOR A COMPACT FUSION REACTORBy Brett Tingley and Tyler RogowayPosted in THE WAR ZONE
TOM DELONGE’S ORIGIN STORY FOR TO THE STARS ACADEMY DESCRIBES A GOVERNMENT UFO INFO OPERATIONBy Tyler RogowayPosted in THE WAR ZONE
NAVY'S ADVANCED AEROSPACE TECH BOSS CLAIMS KEY 'UFO' PATENT IS OPERABLE By Brett TingleyPosted in THE WAR ZONE
HERE'S THE LIST OF STUDIES THE MILITARY'S SECRETIVE UFO PROGRAM FUNDED, SOME WERE JUNKBy Joseph TrevithickPosted in THE WAR ZONE
We now know that GVSC signed the CRADA with TTSA on Oct. 10, 2019. Jeffery Langhout, the center's director, and Kari DeLonge, Tom DeLonge's sister who has held the title of Chief Content Officer for TTSA, physically signed the document.

Bean Soave and Dr. Joseph Cannon, both members of GVSC's Ground Vehicle Survivability and Protection (GVSP) program, are listed as the "principal investigators" on the Army's side. TTSA's principal investigator for this CRADA is Luis Elizondo, the organization's Director of Global Security & Special Programs. Elizondo has claimed in the past to have been in charge of the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP) program, which had the ostensible mission of exploring various UAP sightings and was situated for a period under the Office of the Secretary of Defense. More recent reports had called into question his precise relationship with that program.

US ARMY

US ARMY
TTSA has also claimed to be in possession of a number of mysterious metamaterials, which The War Zone covered in detail in our initial reportingon this CRADA. By basic definition, metamaterials are engineered composites that have electrical properties not present in any naturally occurring form of the material, which results in unique attributes, including certain impacts on the transmission of electromagnetic waves.

The bulk of the CRADA document is legalese covering the various roles and responsibilities of the Army and TTSA under the agreement. Section II, however, which is six pages in total, covers the exact scope of work under the deal. You can read this entire section below:

US ARMY

US ARMY

US ARMY

US ARMY

US ARMY

US ARMY
A lot of this is still very much about legal responsibilities. However, there are a number of extremely important statements in this section, as well.

"To the Stars Academy of Arts and Science is a company with materiel and technology innovations that offer capability advancements for Army ground vehicles," this section of the CRADA says right up front. "These technology innovations have been acquired, designed, and produced by the Collaborator [TTSA], leveraging advancements in metamaterials and quantum physics to push performance gains."

This is immediately notable because it is not qualified in any way. The Army here is presenting as a simple statement that TTSA has "materiel and technology innovations," not that they might have them.

In July 2019, TTSA issued a press release stating that it had acquired a number of metamaterial samples. A subsequent TTSA filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission described them as follows:

(i) One 1.75” x 1.25” x 0.25” piece of micron-layered Bismuth/Magnesium-Zinc metal; (ii) six pieces of Bismuth/Magnesium-Zinc metal; (iii) one piece of Aluminum that TTSA physicist Hal Puthoff already in his possession that is currently on loan from Seller; and (iv) one round black and silver metal flake that physicist Puthoff already has in his possession currently on loan from Seller (collectively, the “Metal Pieces”).

The late Art Bell, long-time host of the paranormal radio program Coast to Coast AM, had originally acquired these from a purported anonymous source. Bell had said the individual claimed that their grandfather had been in an unspecified branch of the U.S. military and that items were related to the Roswell UFO crash conspiracy theory.

TTSA
A purported metamaterial that TTSA has acquired.

The objects had eventually come to Tom DeLonge, who then sold them to TTSA, by way of Linda Moulton Howe, an investigative journalist who is also a prominent member of the UFO community. Howe gave an in-depth presentation, a video of which is available below, on these specific objects in 2004 at the X-Conference, a gathering devoted to fringe topics, such as UFOs.

She claimed that these metal samples displayed antigravitational or levitational properties when exposed to certain frequencies of electromagnetic radiation. Howe also discusses how she presented the materials to a number of labs and corporations, including the Army's Redstone Arsenal, and they could not reproduce them or identify their origins.

Tom DeLonge made similar claims about the materials in an interview with Joe Rogan in 2018. Harold "Hal" Puthoff, Ph.D, who is TTSA's Vice President Science & Technology, has also made similar allusions in the past.

 

[Dotini]

NEMESIS revealed.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...e-capability-will-change-naval-combat-forever

snippet

The U.S. Navy has been quietly developing what could be one of the most important, transformative, and fascinating advances in naval combat, and warfare in general, in years. This new electronic warfare "system of systems" has been clandestinely refined over the last five years and judging from the Navy's own budgetary documents, it may be operational soon, if it isn't already. This secretive new electronic warfare "ecosystem" is known as Netted Emulation of Multi-Element Signature against Integrated Sensors, or NEMESIS.

NEMESIS is not just some 'paper program.' From publicly available, but obscure documents we've collected, it's clear that, for years, the Navy has been developing and integrating multiple types of unmanned vehicles, shipboard and submarine systems, countermeasures and electronic warfare payloads, and communication technologies to give it the ability to project what is, in essence, phantom fleets of aircraft, ships, and submarines.

 

[Dotini]

The very old and well connected mainstream publication Popular Mechanics keeps digging on the Nimitz encounter.

Snippets:

An unofficial executive summary of the Nimitz encounter.
WIKIMEDIA COMMONS

-------------------------

THE VISITORS

Miles away from Voorhis, Day, Turner, and Weigelt, on the deck of the USS Nimitz aircraft carrier, Petty Officer Patrick “PJ” Hughes was unaware of the unidentified objects the Carrier group had been dealing with for the past several days. Instead, as an aviation technician, one of Hughes’ jobs was to secure the hard drive data recorders from the airborne early-warning aircraft, the E-2 Hawkeye.

“We call them bricks, but they contain the software to run the airplane and they also record or can record a lot of the data that the air crew sees during the flight,” said Hughes in a YouTube interview.

On November 14, as Hughes performed this routine task, he was unaware that the E-2 hard drives he was securing away in a classified safe had just come from the Hawkeye that Day first tried to use to intercept the mysterious UFOs.

Shortly after securing the data bricks, Hughes said he was visited by his commanding officer and two unknown individuals. “They were not on the ship earlier, and I didn’t see them come on. I’m not sure how they got there,” said Hughes of the two men.

According to Hughes, his commanding officer told him to turn over the recently secured harddrives. “We put them in the bags, he took them, then he and the two anonymous officers left,” Hughes said.

Inside the Princeton, Voorhis had a similar encounter. “These two guys show up on a helicopter, which wasn’t uncommon, but shortly after they arrived, maybe 20 minutes, I was told by my chain of command to turn over all the data recordings for the AEGIS system,” says Voorhis.

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/research/a29771548/navy-ufo-witnesses-tell-truth/

 

[Dotini]

A team of scientists allied with silicon valley entrepreneurs prepares a major field investigation of UAPs known to enter and emerge from the ocean near California islands.
https://ualbanynewspodcast.simplecast.com/episodes/kevin-knuth

 

[pstar]

Good to see there is some interest in this area on this forum.

I have been following this quite closely since the nov 2017 news releases. However, there hasnt been any new footage release despite Luis Elizondo constantly preaching disclosure was close. Also, the material released for public viewing by AATIP is very vague. There are some big question marks about AATIP and TTSA.

The recent news about the US Army investigating the metamaterials, doesn't sound genuine- as no military organisation would ever reveal anything like this to the public,

As for Commander David Fravor, he presents the most solid evidence for the existence of ET. A highly trained observer and knowledgeable military official. His explanation of the whole Nimitz encounter (in particular the propulsion and maneuverability of the craft) and his personal opinion on Joe Rogan's podcast is the best proposition for an ET civilisation. The sad and annoying part is not many people in the scientific community are taking him seriously. Whereas some one like Dr Steven Greer MD has managed to get soo much attention with some ridiculous stories and really wild ideas with zero evidence.

 

[MIE1992]

Here's my idea, at least on Area 51 in particular.

Y'know what Las Vegas has other than casinos out the wazoo? Nellis AFB. Because a dry, flat area is a great place to build an airbase, not even joking. That's also why there's that air base in San Diego, that was formerly host to the real-world TOPGUN flight school. At any rate, Groom Lake (aka Area 51) seems to be in a very similar biome.

Now, if you look at various prototype aircraft, or concepts, or even some produced planes, they can look very weird. There's this type of UFO dubbed "the black triangle," and what's a F-117 or B-2A look like from below? A black triangle. And meanwhile, especially during the Cold War, the military couldn't just say these weird flying objects, that virtually nobody's seen before, were top-secret planes undergoing testing. And the engineering that was being used in these planes was some real top-secret stuff! So I think they purposefully let rumors of aliens get out of control, and/or propagated the idea itself to some degree, like a disinfo campaign of some sort.

 

[Dotini]

The following article was published by the (modestly influential?) conservative mainstream Washington DC based Washington Examiner, formerly a daily newspaper since 2005, and now a website and weekly magazine, circulation 45,000.

I agree with the author's estimation of the situation with the UAP phenomena.
Here is what we know of Tom Rogan: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Rogan

OPINION

The real reasons the US government is so secretive about UFOs
by Tom Rogan
| December 17, 2019 06:00 AM

Two years ago Sunday, the New York Times broke the stunning story of a secret Pentagon program to study unidentified flying objects. That story led me to delve into this strange world. I've learned some interesting stuff about UFOs ("unidentified aerial phenomena," or "UAP," as the Pentagon refers to them) since then. But there's one problem.

The United States government makes it very hard to figure out what and where UFO-related stuff is going on.

Is that because the government is behind some great conspiracy to cover up the proof of alien visitation to Earth? Is it because the government is in cahoots with alien species to create human-alien hybrids?

Perhaps, but I suspect not.

What I believe is really going on here is that the few individuals in the U.S. government who know about this issue believe the phenomena might be a threat. And that they don't know how to deal with it.

So, what informs the government's fear?

Well, first off, the nuclear issue.

If you ask a Pentagon representative about a specific UFO incident, as I did most recently last week, you'll get a boring response like: "Our aviators train as they fight. Any intrusions that may compromise the security of our operations, tactics, or procedures is of great concern. As the investigation of unidentified aerial phenomena sightings is ongoing, we will not discuss individual sighting reports or observations."

By "aviators," the Pentagon is referencing the particular frequency with which UFOs tend to interact with U.S. naval aviators operating off aircraft carriers. But what the Pentagon is leaving out is why the UFOs tend to run into those naval aviators. And that cuts to the heart of why the Pentagon is concerned about UFOs.

Because the government's assessment, though they won't admit it, is that the UFOs are popping up near the aircraft carriers due to those carriers being nuclear-powered. Note also that UFOs also like to pop up near nuclear submarines and Air Force nuclear weapons bases. Now recognize that this paradigm has been occurring since the Manhattan Project operations at Los Alamos, New Mexico, and also at nuclear sites in the Soviet Union and Russia.

Oh, and as Robert Hastings documents, these UFOs have sometimes even temporarily shut down U.S. nuclear weapons systems. Interesting, right?

Now recall what I just said: The modern UFO phenomena really gets going at exactly the same time as the Manhattan Project. Has humanity's perfection of nuclear energy piqued someone or something's curiosity in us?

Don't get me wrong.

This isn't to say that these UFOs are hostile (although it must be noted that the diverging shapes, behaviors, and capability patterns of UFOs suggest more than one originating source). On the contrary, UFOs appear to be quite friendly, except when rather ill-advised Russian aircrews attempt to engage them.

But pretend you're a senior military or intelligence officer.

You see the nuclear connection point, and you're struck by something odd going on. Now, add to the nuclear issue that some UFOs are intelligently operated machines capable of instantaneously reaching hypersonic speeds. Oh, and that they're also anti-gravity and invisibility capable, and they have been tracked moving in and out of Earth orbit, the atmosphere, and underwater. Suddenly, you have something that is making the U.S. military's most advanced capabilities, and those of every other military on Earth, look like an absurd joke in comparison.

You're left with an unpleasant conclusion: If whatever is controlling these things intends harm, we don't have a chance.

Again, put yourself in the military officer's shoes. Something has repeatedly shown it can easily find carrier strike groups, which are designed and operated to be hidden in the far oceans, and to find nuclear ballistic missile submarines running near totally silent deep under the water. Something can penetrate the most securely guarded areas of the most important areas in the U.S. military and render our most critical deterrent platforms improbable. For Pentagon planners, this is Armageddon-level stuff.

But the truth is clear: If it wanted to, something strange could defeat America without raising a sweat.

The extension is that even if the U.S. government believes, as it does, that these UFOs aren't Chinese or Russian, publicizing the issue itself risks another danger. Namely, that if the U.S. shares what it knows about UFOs, China or Russia (the Russian government has long been very interested in UFOs) might learn enough to replicate the associated technologies behind UFOs for themselves. And seeing as those technologies are almost certainly built around space-time manipulation, if Beijing or Moscow figures it out before the U.S. does, we have a rather large problem.

This isn't to say that the U.S. government is sitting idle. Whatever one thinks about the claims of those such as Bob Lazar, who says he worked on crashed UFOs at Area 51, and I'm not convinced of his story, civilian and military government agencies retain active programs to ascertain the source, capabilities, and intent of UFOs. Indeed, at least some material from crashed UFOs is in U.S. government possession.

Just don't count on the military to share more of what it knows anytime soon. Their understanding of the phenomena and professional instincts weigh heavily toward more secrecy.

What of the politicians?

President Trump has admitted he has been briefed on UFOs, and Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama likely were too. Interestingly, when asked about it, both former presidents jump to joking nondenials. But seeing as they have few good answers, they likely believe there's no point in scaring folks and scarring social norms absent a solution.

Where does this leave us?

Well, with the need to keep pushing this issue. But also with confidence. It will take time, but we'll get to the truth eventually. After all, the UFOs keep popping up. And considering their ability to cloak, there's only one obvious answer as to why they let themselves be seen.
At least sometimes, they want to be seen.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-the-us-government-is-so-secretive-about-ufos

EDIT:
Related bonus article from the redoubtable Popular Mechanics
https://www.popularmechanics.com/mi...-blue-book-anniversary/?utm_source=reddit.com

2nd Edit:

Astonishing interview with pilot who's FLIR video made the front page of the NY Times. He says over and over again it violated the laws of physics as we know them.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/tic-tac-ufo-video-q-and-a-with-navy-pilot-chad-underwood.html

3rd edit:

Excellent 3 part interview with Commander Fravor
https://www.mysterywire.com/ufo/pil...chnology-i-saw-could-change-the-world-part-1/

 

[Dotini]

Here's my idea, at least on Area 51 in particular.

Y'know what Las Vegas has other than casinos out the wazoo? Nellis AFB. Because a dry, flat area is a great place to build an airbase, not even joking. That's also why there's that air base in San Diego, that was formerly host to the real-world TOPGUN flight school. At any rate, Groom Lake (aka Area 51) seems to be in a very similar biome.

Now, if you look at various prototype aircraft, or concepts, or even some produced planes, they can look very weird. There's this type of UFO dubbed "the black triangle," and what's a F-117 or B-2A look like from below? A black triangle. And meanwhile, especially during the Cold War, the military couldn't just say these weird flying objects, that virtually nobody's seen before, were top-secret planes undergoing testing. And the engineering that was being used in these planes was some real top-secret stuff! So I think they purposefully let rumors of aliens get out of control, and/or propagated the idea itself to some degree, like a disinfo campaign of some sort.

Thanks for your participation in a thread most people won't dare to touch.

You are probably aware of Vanity Fair magazine, the monthly for the educated elite, the smartest and most fashionable people. Here is part of what they have to say,

Some people speculate that the U.S. government, by making these sightings public, is softening us up for a revelation, either regarding extraterrestrial life or a world-disruptive technology. It’s sad to say that alien life seems like the safer option. If the UFOs turned out to be man-made, then the first worry would be that the inventors weren’t American. The second worry would be that they were. If China or Russia had developed a force-field propulsion technology, whatever that is, they could use their new power for ill, as they have in the past. On the other hand, if the United States had developed a force-field propulsion technology—well, our stretch as a lone superpower following the collapse of the Soviet Union was not characterized by excessive prudence. Compared to earthly hegemons, alien Tic Tacs seem benign, apart from their erratic driving.

These UFOs could change human history, but, for now, we aren’t giving them much thought. They’re just floating about, unexplained and unidentified, and we have work to do. But mention them in conversation and they’re likely to lead to nervous humor, as do most things unfamiliar and out of our control. The pilots may be laughing, because they have the comfort of peers who are seeing the same thing, but most wouldn’t be laughing if they were alone. We know that life is fragile and that it continues at the mercy of a universe on a little planet orbiting around a star that will eventually flame out. The odds of these supersonic ovals in our midst turning out to be a net plus for humanity are low. Worrying about Donald Trump is almost reassuringly small by comparison. But at least we’re trusting our military personnel to see what’s in front of them. As Colonel Edwards asks, “How could I hope to hold down my command if I didn’t believe in what I saw and shot at?”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/05/please-god-let-it-be-aliens-and-not-trumps-space-force

 

[TenEightyOne]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in UFOs, either way "The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass" has got @Dotini written all over it!

BBC: There Were Nine...

 

[Dotini]

I wasn't sure whether to put this here or in UFOs, either way "The Mystery of Dyatlov Pass" has got @Dotini written all over it!

BBC: There Were Nine...

I don't think this story fits in best in the modern UAP thread, although it has been mentioned in the UFO/paranormal literature from time to time. The Yeti hypothesis I thought was the most entertaining. (Yetis are sometimes defined as trans-dimensional aliens) My Uncle Fred and Cousin Karl have been on extensive Bigfoot hunts in the wilds of the Pacific Northwest, and had extensive contact with Ivan Sanderson, a world-famous cryptozoologist and ufologist of the day. All their searches came up empty, including Ivan's. But they did have a few very weird experiences to recall. Occasionally you hear of some small college professor who opines that Bigfoot could be real. But I really, really doubt it.

Avalanche is by far the easiest explanation.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/12/28/dyatlov-pass-incident/

 

[Dotini]

Sharing UFO/UAP documents, video and slides to the public "would cause exceptionally grave damage to the National Security of the United States".

- US Navy ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence)
​

Whether this true, false or just BS I'll leave up to you to decide. Some of this secret footage has already been released, and is seen in this thread.
I have additional material on this subject if anyone is interested.

Top-Secret UFO Files Could 'Gravely Damage' US National Security if Released, Navy Says

By Brandon Specktor - Senior Writer 3 days ago

The truth is out there… but you're still not allowed to see it.

This infamous video of the USS Nimitz UFO encounter may not be the only one out there...
(Image: © To The Stars Academy of Arts & Science)

In November 2004, several U.S. Navy pilots stationed aboard the USS Nimitz encountered a Tic-Tac-shaped UFO darting and dashing over the Pacific Ocean in apparent defiance of the laws of physics. Navy officials dubbed the strange craft an "unidentified aerial phenomenon," but they have remained mum on what, exactly, that phenomenon could've been. Now, unsurprisingly to anyone who's ever considered making a hat out of tinfoil, the military has confirmed they know more than they're letting on.

In response to a recent Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, a spokesperson from the Navy's Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) confirmed that the agency possesses several top-secret documents and at least one classified video pertaining to the 2004 UFO encounter, Vice reported.

According to the ONI spokesperson, these documents were either labeled "SECRET" or "TOP SECRET" by the agencies that provided them, and that sharing the information with the public "would cause exceptionally grave damage to the National Security of the United States."

These top-secret files included several "briefing slides" about the incident, provided to the ONI by an unnamed agency. (Because ONI officials did not classify the slides personally, they are unable to declassify them, the spokesperson added).

The ONI also admitted to possessing at least one video of unknown length, classified as "secret" by the Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR). ONI didn't reveal whether this footage is the same 1-minute video that was leaked online in 2007 and widely released by The New York Times in 2017. However, in November 2019, several naval officers who witnessed the incident aboard the Nimitz told Popular Mechanics that they had seen a much longer video of the encounter that was between 8 and 10 minutes long. These original recordings were promptly collected and erased by "unknown individuals" who arrived on the ship by helicopter shortly after the incident, one officer said.

Luis Elizondo, a former Pentagon staffer who helped make the Navy video public, told Vice that "people should not be surprised by the revelation that other videos exist and at greater length."

The FOIA request, submitted in October 2019 by an independent researcher, asked for access to any nonclassified records or portions of records regarding the 2004 UFO encounter. No additional documents were mentioned in the ONI's response besides the classified briefing and video.

https://www.livescience.com/navy-confirms-secret-ufo-video.html

 

[baldgye]

This is my favourite blog

 

[Dotini]

For the thoughtful, the following blog is highly recommended reading. It's a great summary of what is openly acknowledged by the US government to date, plus the questions, alarms and threats.

https://blog.usni.org/posts/2020/01/10/the-navy-and-the-uaps

Navy
The Navy and the UAPs
By Kyle Mizokami | January 10, 2020

AviationNavyUAP
Kyle Mizokami
Mr. Mizokami writes about national security and defense affairs for Popular Mechanics, The National Interest,and Foxtrot Alpha.  

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One of the strangest mysteries of the modern U.S. Navy is a series of events that played out in 2004 and 2014–15, on each coast, involving what the Pentagon now calls “unexplained aerial phenomena” (UAP). In 2004 and 2014–15, Navy personnel flying carrier-based strike fighters and on surface warships spotted aircraft with flight and engineering characteristics currently considered impossible. The sightings are evidence that someone, somewhere has operationalized technology far beyond the apparent state of the art. The unknown craft, if not under the control of the U.S. government, might well represent a serious threat to American military superiority in a future conflict.

The story first became public in December 2017, when The New York Times broke a story about UAPs and the Nimitz Strike Group. The USS Nimitz (CVN-68) and her escorts were doing workups in advance of their 2005 deployment. Retired Commander David Fravor, one of the aviator eyewitnesses, says the ships were approximately 60 miles off the “midpoint between San Diego and Ensenada, Mexico” on 14 November 2004. Along with the Nimitz was the guided-missile cruiser USS Princeton (CG-59) and several support ships.

Fravor, at the time skipper of the Strike Fighter Squadron (VFA) 41 “Black Aces,” and Lieutenant Commander Jim Slaight were flying an air-defense training mission from the Nimitz, with Marines from the VMFA-232 “Red Devils” set to play the bad guys. The Princeton was to coordinate the exercise.

Unbeknownst to Fravor, the exercise was about to take a turn. During the previous two weeks, radar operators on the Princeton had tracked unknown aircraft flying highly unusual maneuvers. The craft would descend from 80,000 feet, drop straight down to 20,000 feet, loiter for three to four hours, and go straight back to 80,000 feet again. As many as a dozen of these craft were sighted on the cruiser’s SPY-1 radar at a time. The Nimitz’s E-2 Hawkeye airborne early warning and control aircraft could also see the craft.

Once airborne, Fravor received a request from Princeton Control to specify his aircraft loadout. He replied that his F/A-18F was equipped with a CATM-9 captive-carry training missile. The Princeton informed him the air-defense exercise was canceled in favor of a “real-world vector.” The controller explained the situation with the sightings and tasked Fravor’s flight of two F/A-18Fs to investigate the mysterious craft.

The strike fighters flew west until Princeton Control declared “merge plot”—meaning the radar returns of the objects were blurred with returns from the Super Hornets. The Navy flight crews looked down to the right and noticed a cross-shaped object, approximately the size of a Boeing 737, just under the surface of the water with waves breaking above it. Just above the underwater object was a white, oval-shaped object approximately 40 feet long—dubbed “the Tic-Tac” after the breath mint. All four naval aviators observed the objects with their own eyes, unaided. The aircraft did not resemble a helicopter nor did the water show any sign of rotor downwash.

Fravor descended to get a better look while his wingman continued flying at altitude. As Fravor’s altitude decreased, the Tic-Tac began rising to meet him. Fravor and the object flew closed—until the object abruptly seemed to disappear. The 737-sized object in the water also disappeared.

As the two F/A-18Fs left the area, Princeton Control radioed that the Tic-Tac had reappeared—at the strike fighters’ original rendezvous point (before they were retasked to investigate the object). By Fravor’s estimate, the object had traveled 60 miles in 30–40 seconds, which works out to roughly 7,200 miles an hour. The Princeton did not track the Tic-Tac’s rather; rather, the object simply seemed to reappear on the cruiser’s SPY-1 radar. The fighter crews flew back to the rendezvous point but did not observe the object, which also did not appear on their radar.

A third F/A-18F took off immediately after Fravor’s flight landed. The plane’s weapon system officer (WSO) detected the Tic-Tac on radar but immediately encountered antiradar jamming, presumably emitted by the object. The airplane’s other sensors had slewed to target, however, and the WSO was able to observe it and record video with the AN/ASQ-228 Advanced Targeting Forward Looking Infrared (ATFLIR) sensor and targeting pod. The video, released by the U.S. government, later was uploaded to YouTube by a UAP-investigation group. It shows an oblong-shaped object that holds in the center of the ATFLIR for several seconds before rapidly accelerating left and out of the camera’s field of view.

In March 2019, The New York Times broke a second story about a series of UFO sightings—again by U.S. Navy personnel—this time, off the East Coast. The sightings took place from summer 2014 to March 2015 and involved Super Hornet air crews flying from the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71). Lieutenants Ryan Graves and Danny Aucoin of the VFA-111 “Red Rippers” spoke on the record to the Times about their UAP encounters. As with the Nimitz in 2004, the “TR” was engaged in a training workup in advance of a deployment to the Persian Gulf.

Graves describes the UAPs he and the other pilots saw as similar to a “sphere encased in a cube.” Graves explains that UAPs would appear at “30,000 feet, 20,000 feet, even sea level” then depart at up to hypersonic speeds. The objects also would fly up to 12 hours at a time, far longer than conventional high-performance aircraft could do unrefueled. Aucoin says his own CATM-9 captive-training missile picked up the UAP. The AN/ASQ-228 ATFLIR could observe the objects but the sensor did not register heat sources from any propulsion systems or any form of hot engine exhaust.

The 2014–15 sightings differed from the Nimitz’s in one important way: The jets’ onboard radar could detect the objects. Fravor’s older generation F/A-18F had the AN/APG-73 radar system and could not detect the UAPs, while the pilots of VFA-111 had newer Super Hornets with AN/APG-79 active electronically scanned array radarsthat could. The newer system possessed increased sensitivity and greater processing power.

The objects were sighted several times over a period of almost a year, resulting in two more released videos: “Gimbal” and “Go Fast” (both available on YouTube). In the Gimbal video, one pilot remarks that the radar—presumably using the AN/APG-79’s search-while-track feature—picked up a “whole fleet” of the UAPs. According to the pilots’ voices in the video, the craft were flying against the wind, which was 120 knots out of the west. All three videos were recorded with the AN/ASQ-228.

The New York Times interviewed three additional pilots who spoke about the objects but declined to go on the record. Other East Coast pilots reportedly had their own sightings. In one instance relayed by Graves, a UAP allegedly flew between two Super Hornets flying 100 feet apart. The incident resulted in the squadron filing an aviation flight safety report.

The three videos posted to YouTube by To The Stars Academy of Arts and Sciences have been confirmed by the U.S. Navy as authentic, showing what the service classifies as unidentified aerial phenomena. UAP is a broad category, however, that includes literally anything that flies but is not identified, whether a frisbee or a flying saucer. While the videos are “genuine,” the viewer is left to wonder what exactly they depict.

What are the objects? The UAPs can only be defined based on their observed characteristics. The West Coast sightings were of a 40-foot long, oblong-shaped objects. The East Coast sightings were generally of a “sphere within a cube”–shaped objects, though Graves has alluded to at least one sighting more like the Tic-Tac. Both types flew at hypersonic speeds and were capable of instantaneous acceleration to extremely high speeds. Neither appear to emit heat for propulsion when viewed in infrared.

The objects appeared to have some limited antiradar and/or stealth capability. In 2004, the AN/APG-73 radar could not detect them, though the ship-based SPY-1 and E-2 Hawkeye APS-145 radar could. In 2004, the UAP also jammed a Super Hornet’s radar, leading to the obvious question: Why would a UAP carry a radar jammer?

What could power the craft and what is the source of the craft propulsion? This is a wide-open area for speculation, and the only thing we can say with any certainty is that they do not use conventional aircraft propulsion. For one, ATFLIR confirms there is no heat-generating internal combustion engine that expels hot air and exhaust gases in a trail behind the aircraft. Not even a scramjet engine—or any other known engine—would allow it to reach speeds of 7,200 miles an hour instantaneously.

Another mystery is that the craft seem to have the ability to hover, fly at amazing speeds, and then come to a quick stop, much faster than vertical-takeoff-and-landing aircraft such as the F-35B. The 2004 “FLIR1” footage shows the object going from a hover to zipping out of the camera field of view faster than any known aircraft. How any object can accomplish this is unknown.

Graves comments that the craft seem to carry an extremely powerful energy source, flying for 12 hours in ways that would require a conventionally powered aircraft to refuel after an hour. This would rule out jet fuel and the small size of the craft seems to rule out nuclear power. One possibility is the use of so-called “zero-point energy,” or the potential energy derived from a vacuum. As for a propulsion system, some speculation has focused on a system that can refract gravity, pushing an object in a direction other than straight downward to Earth.

The UAPs encountered in the 2004 and 2014–15 sightings could be secret, unacknowledged U.S. military aircraft. With what limited knowledge we have, that is the best-case scenario. (Alternately, they could be non-native to Earth, but that possibility creates far more questions than it answers.)

More alarming is the idea that the craft belong to another country, Russia or China in particular. The idea that a potentially hostile power could operate highly advanced craft so close to the borders of the continental United States is disturbing and calls many things into question in a conventional conflict. It would be as great a threat as nuclear weapons—probably greater—making obsolete the largest and most modern arsenal of tactical aircraft in the world. Strangely, the U.S. military has not demonstrated any particular concern about the sightings.

These UAP sightings remain a mystery. The objects, sighted by credible witnesses and detected and recorded by sophisticated sensors, are so far beyond the frame of reference of contemporary science and technology they meet science-fiction author Arthur C. Clarke’s famous dictum that “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Little can be learned without a craft for analysis or whoever operates them stepping forward. Until a better understanding of these UAPs is obtained, it would be prudent to consider these a potential threat.

 

[BobK]

So just how is this a threat to national security? Any idea?

 

[TexRex]

Holy copypasta, Batman!

 

[Dotini]

So just how is this a threat to national security? Any idea?

Sure, I have ideas. But first let's restate the last 3 paragraphs of the navy blog:

The UAPs encountered in the 2004 and 2014–15 sightings could be secret, unacknowledged U.S. military aircraft. With what limited knowledge we have, that is the best-case scenario. (Alternately, they could be non-native to Earth, but that possibility creates far more questions than it answers.)

More alarming is the idea that the craft belong to another country, Russia or China in particular. The idea that a potentially hostile power could operate highly advanced craft so close to the borders of the continental United States is disturbing and calls many things into question in a conventional conflict. It would be as great a threat as nuclear weapons—probably greater—making obsolete the largest and most modern arsenal of tactical aircraft in the world. Strangely, the U.S. military has not demonstrated any particular concern about the sightings.

These UAP sightings remain a mystery. The objects, sighted by credible witnesses and detected and recorded by sophisticated sensors, are so far beyond the frame of reference of contemporary science and technology they meet science-fiction author Arthur C. Clarke’s famous dictum that “any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.” Little can be learned without a craft for analysis or whoever operates them stepping forward. Until a better understanding of these UAPs is obtained, it would be prudent to consider these a potential threat.

Now to come back to the question: "How could revealing top secret classified information on UAP phenomena to the public be a threat to national security?"

#1: It might reveal sources and methods, for instance radar capabilities.
#2: Your guess.

 

[baldgye]

Sure, I have ideas.

What's your second idea?

 

[Dotini]

What's your second idea?

You first.

 

[baldgye]

You first.

My idea is that this is all ******** conspiracy nonsense. Your turn!

 

[Dotini]

My idea is that this is all ******** conspiracy nonsense. Your turn!

Sorry Charlie, if you dismiss the entire subject, the conversation with you is over.

 

[Dotini]

For the record, the Pentagon has changed its position on the purpose of AATIP/AAWSAP. It includes "temporal translation", whatever that is.

 

[Dotini]

What's your second idea?

@BobK
After thinking about it for a few days, I'm going to say most observers of the topic would say "It would be a grave threat to the security of the United States to reveal classified information about a potential enemy, including their capabilities and intentions."

I hesitated to discuss this because I don't want to presume or even suggest that the phenomena in question is an enemy.
IMO, we simply do not know what the phenomena really is, other than unidentified. There are numerous possibilities, mostly not enemies.



Readable version: https://www.airspacemag.com/space/year-ufos-180973965/

 

[novcze]

I watched Fraser Cain video on Fermi Paradox the other day and thought to myself that you would enjoy his content... and it looks you do.

It would be great relief for me if some inteligent extraterrestrials would arrive here, it would be confirmation that limitations of physics as we know it can be overcome and reasonable interstellar travel is possible.

edit: Do you think that "first contact" event could have same effect as interdimensional squid in the Watchmen? ... I mean unite people, not wipe out NYC.

 

[baldgye]

@BobK
After thinking about it for a few days, I'm going to say most observers of the topic would say "It would be a grave threat to the security of the United States to reveal classified information about a potential enemy, including their capabilities and intentions."

I hesitated to discuss this because I don't want to presume or even suggest that the phenomena in question is an enemy.
IMO, we simply do not know what the phenomena really is, other than unidentified. There are numerous possibilities, mostly not enemies.



Readable version: https://www.airspacemag.com/space/year-ufos-180973965/

Why did you quote me?

 

[Dotini]

Why did you quote me?

I realized my first answer to your question was not good enough, and I wanted to do better.

 

[baldgye]

I realized my first answer to your question was not good enough, and I wanted to do better.

But, your second answer, was even less of an answer than the first one was?

First answer:

"it might be this..."​

Second answer:

"I don't know..."​

You might not have liked my original response and opinion, but at least it was an actual stance

 

[Dotini]

But, your second answer, was even less of an answer than the first one was?

First answer:

"it might be this..."​

Second answer:

"I don't know..."​

You might not have liked my original response and opinion, but at least it was an actual stance

Your response was nothing but denial that the phenomena exists. Of course in reality its does, but you are entitled to your feelings.

To come back to the question: "How could revealing top secret classified information on UAP phenomena to the public be a threat to national security?"

#1: It might reveal sources and methods, for instance radar capabilities.
#2: It might reveal classified information about a potential enemy, including their capabilities and intentions."

 

[TexRex]

"They won't talk about it" is about as clichéd as conspiracist claptrap gets.

 

[Dotini]

"They won't talk about it" is about as clichéd as conspiracist claptrap gets.

Would you agree with @baldgye that the UAP/UFO phenomena is 100% nonsense conspiracy theory?