Price Inflation - News and Discussion

[DK]

The rent bubble is going to burst and it's going to result in people moving away from these areas that attracted all these jobs leaving a brain drain. I'm not sure how you fix it though, but allowing for better zoning and more high-density housing is certainly a start. Unfortunately, here in Salt Lake we have a bunch of rich boomers who don't want young people living near them and spoiling the view of the mountains. I'm sure it's like this in other places too.

It's the same story here in Ireland, although it's more of a case of protecting a street of clapped-out 150-year-old ex-tenement blocks because it got mentioned in "Ulysses" than having a nice view. The NIMBYs will also feign concern for the environment (while owning some obese crapbox like a Nissan Qashqai or Kia Sportage) or a proposed apartment block either "not being in keeping with our area's architectural heritage" or being filled with "transient workers". Any residential building higher than 6 storeys evokes horror stories of the infamous Ballymun Flats, which were built in the 1960s following the clearing of inner-city slums, and became a by-word for drug (especially heroin) and gang-related violence.

To cap it all off, pretty much any development is funded by a real estate conglomerate just for renting out at extortionate rates (you'd be lucky to get a 1-bed apartment in Dublin for under €1500 per month), our government is quite happy to pay said rates under the Housing Assistant Payment scheme instead of building social housing, and our national planning authority is horrendously understaffed.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

It's the same story here in Ireland, although it's more of a case of protecting a street of clapped-out 150-year-old ex-tenement blocks because it got mentioned in "Ulysses" than having a nice view. The NIMBYs will also feign concern for the environment (while owning some obese crapbox like a Nissan Qashqai or Kia Sportage) or a proposed apartment block either "not being in keeping with our area's architectural heritage" or being filled with "transient workers". Any residential building higher than 6 storeys evokes horror stories of the infamous Ballymun Flats, which were built in the 1960s following the clearing of inner-city slums, and became a by-word for drug (especially heroin) and gang-related violence.

To cap it all off, pretty much any development is funded by a real estate conglomerate just for renting out at extortionate rates (you'd be lucky to get a 1-bed apartment in Dublin for under €1500 per month), our government is quite happy to pay said rates under the Housing Assistant Payment scheme instead of building social housing, and our national planning authority is horrendously understaffed.

Ooh we have those too:

Wealthy California town cites mountain lion habitat to deny affordable housing

 

[Keef]

Ooh we have those too:

Wealthy California town cites mountain lion habitat to deny affordable housing

Can we all just agree that rich people are terrible?

 

[Danoff]

Can we all just agree that rich people are terrible?

You really love the class warfare.

 

[Keef]

You really love the class warfare.

The more successful I become the stronger it gets which is curious.

 

[Dotini]

According to the early morning talk on CNBC, sanctions to come on Russian oil could cause gasoline prices in California and my city to soar to above $7/gallon. Stations in my neighborhood are already $5/gal for regular. Fertilizer/food prices could also climb sharply, they say.

 

[Danoff]

The more successful I become the stronger it gets which is curious.

Self-hatred?

 

[Keef]

Self-hatred?

More like a growing awareness of how rare and difficult my achievements actually are, a sense of luck, a sense of disbelief that it actually happened, and wondering what could've been different if I'd have been exposed to this career idea sometime before my 20s. Thinking about how there was only one obstacle in my way throughout this journey and it was money. If only I were rich, nothing would be particularly difficult for me. Can you imagine if peoples' potentials were dictated by their abilities rather than what they can afford? So much of a person's psyche is dictated by what they can afford that it results in swaths of our population underachieving due to poverty-induced mental shutdowns, basically. That roadblock could be eliminated, and I know right where to get the funding from.

 

[Danoff]

More like a growing awareness of how rare and difficult my achievements actually are, a sense of luck, a sense of disbelief that it actually happened, and wondering what could've been different if I'd have been exposed to this career idea sometime before my 20s. Thinking about how there was only one obstacle in my way throughout this journey and it was money. If only I were rich, nothing would be particularly difficult for me. Can you imagine if peoples' potentials were dictated by their abilities rather than what they can afford? So much of a person's psyche is dictated by what they can afford that it results in swaths of our population underachieving due to poverty-induced mental shutdowns, basically. That roadblock could be eliminated, and I know right where to get the funding from.

The socialist elements of your beliefs aren't really what I was poking at. I was more poking at your hatred of people simply based on the size of their bank account. You said this:

Can we all just agree that rich people are terrible?

You have an automatic dislike, and corresponding dehumanization, for anyone who is wealthy. As you become more successful, does that not help you see that it's all just people? There is nothing noble about being poor, or evil about being rich. It's all just humans, like yourself.

 

[Keef]

You have an automatic dislike, and corresponding dehumanization, for anyone who is wealthy. As you become more successful, does that not help you see that it's all just people? There is nothing noble about being poor, or evil about being rich. It's all just humans, like yourself.

Not a lot of sympathy for people who are blatantly wasteful of any resource they have access to while there are others who have to turn the furnace off at night to save a buck. Something as simple as not lighting up your entire house when everyone is asleep and can't see it anyway? Turn those damn lights off, you're wasting resources that other people need.

 

[Danoff]

Not a lot of sympathy for people who are blatantly wasteful of any resource they have access to while there are others who have to turn the furnace off at night to save a buck. Something as simple as not lighting up your entire house when everyone is asleep and can't see it anyway? Turn those damn lights off, you're wasting resources that other people need.

So oddly specific.

Wrong, totally disconnected from "evil", and not specific to the people themselves, but also really weirdly specific.

 

[GranTurNismo]

The property-owning boomers have effectively locked down development across most developed areas in the US. Here in CA they have totally weaponized the environmental review process to lock everything up behind red tape. I work on a residential multi-family project that has been going through development hell for fifteen years.

It's hard for me to see a scenario where the US builds housing at an adequate rate. It will require a vast shift in power structures at every level. By that time, Gen Xers and Millenials who did manage to get into property aren't exactly going to be jumping at boosting supply...

The not in my backyard attitude is the single biggest cancer there is in terms of sustainable devlopment. Truly maddens me.

 

[Keef]

So oddly specific.

Wrong, totally disconnected from "evil", and not specific to the people themselves, but also really weirdly specific.

A specific example of a broad mindset. I personally don't think that "because I can" is a good reason to waste resources at every opportunity. It's a middle finger to the rest of society and basically defines the can/cannot and have/have not class warfare that you're suggesting I'm perpetuating. In my opinion, that wasn't invented by me. I'm not the one who built walls and fences to keep others out. (People like me can't afford to be that wasteful).

 

[Danoff]

A specific example of a broad mindset. I personally don't think that "because I can" is a good reason to waste resources at every opportunity. It's a middle finger to the rest of society and basically defines the can/cannot and have/have not class warfare that you're suggesting I'm perpetuating. In my opinion, that wasn't invented by me. I'm not the one who built walls and fences to keep others out. (People like me can't afford to be that wasteful).

Economics is not a fixed pie, and neither are many of the resources you're talking about. Regardless, I'm sure you're HIGHLY wasteful in your lavishly wealthy existence compared to others, especially in certain parts of the world.

You're your own enemy here. Just wondering when the humanizing sympathy will kick in.

 

[Jezza819]

Interesting article on AP News:

Rents reach 'insane' levels across US with no end in sight

Rents have exploded across the country, causing many to fall behind on payments, dig deep into their savings or downsize to subpar units.

apnews.com

I honestly don't think rising rent is a consequence of inflation, it's an instigator of inflation. Many of these properties that are continuing to have their rents reach insane levels were bought decades ago, so it's not like they're trying to pay off increased construction costs or anything. Heck, my apartment was built in the 70s and never really updated all that much, yet I'm paying $2,000 a month for it. When I first moved in 5 years ago it was $1,300. What have I got for a $700 increase? Worse neighbors, management that won't do anything, no updates, and cheaper repairs that result in mismatched paint and flooring.

I wouldn't mind paying more in rent if it meant I was actually getting something in return, but I'm not.

The rent bubble is going to burst and it's going to result in people moving away from these areas that attracted all these jobs leaving a brain drain. I'm not sure how you fix it though, but allowing for better zoning and more high-density housing is certainly a start. Unfortunately, here in Salt Lake we have a bunch of rich boomers who don't want young people living near them and spoiling the view of the mountains. I'm sure it's like this in other places too.

I'm in the same situation you are. I moved into my current complex in 2011 into a one bedroom apartment with a loft which was really too much space for me but it's all they had at that time. Total square footage was just over 1000sq.ft I think. So I used that loft for extra storage space. But that loft also came with a penalty. 20ft. high living room ceiling which meant in the winter time I froze to death because the heat went up to that ceiling and my electric bill was through the roof.

In June 2019 I was able to downsize into a 875 sq ft or so apartment on the ground floor. But since then we've went through 3 different property management teams which meant the folks that were there when I moved in were long gone especially the woman that helped me into my current (and much better for me) apartment. I work less than 1/4 from where I live. Our back fence here at work shares a property line with my complex. That's how close it is.

Since I moved in the complex in 2011, Kristi had always worked with me at renewals since I was on 18 month leases. It's best if I live here long term or at least as long as I'm working next door. But since the management changes this last lease in Dec. 2020 was only 15 months. Now it's up again and with all the inflation talk I was fearing the worst. This time they had reduced it to a 13 month term.

I called the office and got someone who I had never talked to before and asked her how property management companies felt about having long term residents. Is it something they want or is it better for them to have to turn apartments over year after year and constantly pay to refurbish them, have them empty until they're rented again, etc. She said that they definitely wanted long term residents. I said that it sure doesn't seem like it. I've been here 11 years now, never late with payments, never caused any disturbances, told her my employment situation, etc. She said she would get with the manager and let me know. She called back the next day and said they only way they could do 18 month leases was my renewal would go up to the rent advertised on their website which is about $400 per month than I'm paying now. She said they longest they could go was 15 months again with a $165 increase which means around $2000 for the year. So it could have been worse.

Now she told me that the big jump in rent was due to all of these new builds in the area which is a load of crap. They've been building complexes in this area for as long as I've lived here. Sure there are some nicer newer apartments around here but that's like saying you have a Toyota Corolla in a parking lot. That Corolla is just fine for what it is, good basic dependable transportation, like my apartment. But a brand new shiny Rolls Royce pulls into the parking lot and parks next to your Corolla. That suddenly doesn't make the Corolla worth the same amount of money as the Rolls Royce just because they are next to each other. They're not updating my Corolla to have the same things the Rolls Royce has, so it's apples to oranges.

I think the jump in rental prices is pure greed. These property companies are hearing about inflation and other things and thinking, "hmmm, we can make even more money faster with if we shorten the terms and jack up the rates". I'm thinking that pretty soon you will have 6 month max term leases. That way they can get their increases even faster.

 

[Danoff]

I think the jump in rental prices is pure greed.

It tracks with property values. Prices have skyrocketed, so rent has skyrocketed. The only thing holding that at bay was low interest rates. Not anymore.

 

[Northstar]

If only I were rich, nothing would be particularly difficult for me.

Life is full of "if onlys" and it's not always money (in fact it rarely is).

Personally I ask myself all the time how much better my life could have been if only I wasn't born with a cleft pallet, if only I had a dad that wasn't a dead beat and if only I a mom that wasn't more worried about the latest gossip at work than spending time with her kid.

Life sucks and if you let it life will kick your ass than kick dirt in your face, it's the same for everyone, rich or poor. The best you can hope for is you're born healthy to loving, involved parents, if you have that you have a decent shot at succeeding in this 🤬 show.

Can you imagine if peoples' potentials were dictated by their abilities rather than what they can afford?

In a perfect world that would be the case, unfortunately that world isn't the one we live in. Even if you take money out of the equation it takes an extraordinary series of events for people to truly reach their potential since it's not like we're born with a sign saying what we would be really good at. For all we know the next GOAT of any particular thing could be out there right now but we would never know because nobody will ever push them in that direction.

 

[Pupik]

I'm in the same situation you are. I moved into my current complex in 2011 into a one bedroom apartment with a loft which was really too much space for me but it's all they had at that time. Total square footage was just over 1000sq.ft I think. So I used that loft for extra storage space. But that loft also came with a penalty. 20ft. high living room ceiling which meant in the winter time I froze to death because the heat went up to that ceiling and my electric bill was through the roof.

In June 2019 I was able to downsize into a 875 sq ft or so apartment on the ground floor. But since then we've went through 3 different property management teams which meant the folks that were there when I moved in were long gone especially the woman that helped me into my current (and much better for me) apartment. I work less than 1/4 from where I live. Our back fence here at work shares a property line with my complex. That's how close it is.

Since I moved in the complex in 2011, Kristi had always worked with me at renewals since I was on 18 month leases. It's best if I live here long term or at least as long as I'm working next door. But since the management changes this last lease in Dec. 2020 was only 15 months. Now it's up again and with all the inflation talk I was fearing the worst. This time they had reduced it to a 13 month term.

I called the office and got someone who I had never talked to before and asked her how property management companies felt about having long term residents. Is it something they want or is it better for them to have to turn apartments over year after year and constantly pay to refurbish them, have them empty until they're rented again, etc. She said that they definitely wanted long term residents. I said that it sure doesn't seem like it. I've been here 11 years now, never late with payments, never caused any disturbances, told her my employment situation, etc. She said she would get with the manager and let me know. She called back the next day and said they only way they could do 18 month leases was my renewal would go up to the rent advertised on their website which is about $400 per month than I'm paying now. She said they longest they could go was 15 months again with a $165 increase which means around $2000 for the year. So it could have been worse.

Now she told me that the big jump in rent was due to all of these new builds in the area which is a load of crap. They've been building complexes in this area for as long as I've lived here. Sure there are some nicer newer apartments around here but that's like saying you have a Toyota Corolla in a parking lot. That Corolla is just fine for what it is, good basic dependable transportation, like my apartment. But a brand new shiny Rolls Royce pulls into the parking lot and parks next to your Corolla. That suddenly doesn't make the Corolla worth the same amount of money as the Rolls Royce just because they are next to each other. They're not updating my Corolla to have the same things the Rolls Royce has, so it's apples to oranges.

I think the jump in rental prices is pure greed. These property companies are hearing about inflation and other things and thinking, "hmmm, we can make even more money faster with if we shorten the terms and jack up the rates". I'm thinking that pretty soon you will have 6 month max term leases. That way they can get their increases even faster.

To be brutally honest, part of the problem in the Huntsville area (and other fast-growing growing areas [over 10% population gains in the last decade] of the US) is that jokers like me move there from places where homes and rents were more expensive.

Couple that with a demand that was already outstripping supply before the pandemic had begun, pile in with every other supply-chain excuse, plus a "real" 10% inflation gain on nearly everything, and you have a situation that keeps moving people out to the fringes of the city.

Sorry to admit that I'm part of the problem; but after living in South Florida (as described above), we literally could not afford to move up into a bigger home and in a nicer neighborhood.

Yes, labor has shifted around – labor can find jobs that pay better and the experience barrier is greatly reduced – but that also means that people don't have to accept low-wage jobs or perform hard labor to get good wages anymore. The shuffle is then complicated by people resigning if they don't get equal or even better pay as their colleagues.

 

[Danoff]

Sorry to admit that I'm part of the problem

You're just trying to make a life for yourself. You're not harming people.

 

[mika haka]

Printed too much money in the pandemic and now its running at 20%

 

[Dotini]

Comprehensive article on global hunger, price inflation in food and fertilizer, particularly as aggravated by the Ukraine war.

 

[Imari]

You have an automatic dislike, and corresponding dehumanization, for anyone who is wealthy. As you become more successful, does that not help you see that it's all just people? There is nothing noble about being poor, or evil about being rich. It's all just humans, like yourself.

This has undertones of the "not all men" thing.

Obviously not all rich people are the same, but at the same time it's okay to recognise that there are problems with a significant proportion of a group of people who share a property or trait and express that in a casual way.

As far as it all being just humans, lots of humans are arseholes. That's already a known issue even before we start into looking at whether some groups have a high proportion of arseholes than others.

You're just trying to make a life for yourself. You're not harming people.

Surely at some point you have to admit that he's probably in a better position to make statements about himself than you are? It's one thing to argue about economics, it's another to tell someone that their own perception of their life and actions is wrong over the internet.

 

[Pupik]

Surely at some point you have to admit that he's probably in a better position to make statements about himself than you are? It's one thing to argue about economics, it's another to tell someone that their own perception of their life and actions is wrong over the internet.

Well, NIMBY-ism and/or a lack of resources are the causes of human migration patterns ever since people wandered out of Olduvai Gorge.

So I see it as natural, with a side of unintended consequences.

 

[Danoff]

This has undertones of the "not all men" thing.

Obviously not all rich people are the same, but at the same time it's okay to recognise that there are problems with a significant proportion of a group of people who share a property or trait and express that in a casual way.

K, let's see some stats then, something to back up this notion that something is wrong with one group vs. another. My point stands, from a broad perspective, he is filthy rich compared to so many. He is his own enemy.

As far as it all being just humans, lots of humans are arseholes. That's already a known issue even before we start into looking at whether some groups have a high proportion of arseholes than others.

Yea, and there are lots of rich and poor versions of that kind of behavior.

Surely at some point you have to admit that he's probably in a better position to make statements about himself than you are? It's one thing to argue about economics, it's another to tell someone that their own perception of their life and actions is wrong over the internet.

I don't see the part where he's harming anyone.

 

[Jezza819]

To be brutally honest, part of the problem in the Huntsville area (and other fast-growing growing areas [over 10% population gains in the last decade] of the US) is that jokers like me move there from places where homes and rents were more expensive.

Couple that with a demand that was already outstripping supply before the pandemic had begun, pile in with every other supply-chain excuse, plus a "real" 10% inflation gain on nearly everything, and you have a situation that keeps moving people out to the fringes of the city.

Sorry to admit that I'm part of the problem; but after living in South Florida (as described above), we literally could not afford to move up into a bigger home and in a nicer neighborhood.

Yes, labor has shifted around – labor can find jobs that pay better and the experience barrier is greatly reduced – but that also means that people don't have to accept low-wage jobs or perform hard labor to get good wages anymore. The shuffle is then complicated by people resigning if they don't get equal or even better pay as their colleagues.

Just to revisit this. Since we last talked about rental rates etc. I've been noticing some things that lead me to believe that this whole "housing shortage" and astronomical rental rate increase is about to come crashing down very hard. At least around here locally.

In my building there are 24 apartments. On my half of the building there are two empty ones. One of them has been empty since Christmas. The other one on the top floor has been empty since early March. On the other half of the building there are three empty ones. One person moved out early April and the other two became empty in February. When I drive out and in each day the building next to me has two empty ones together on one side of the building and they've been empty since January or so. Nobody is beating down the doors to move into these places at these rates. In the 11 years I've been here it was rare to see a vacancy go over a month and now some of them have been empty close to 6 months. There's more room in the parking lot now than at any other time since I've been here.

Today was nice weather so I walked to work and on my way out I noticed two signs right in front advertising "ask us about our move in specials". I've never seen any kind of move in specials in 11 years. There's a new "community" about a mile away from me that opened about two years ago that's a pretty neat concept. Instead of multiple apartments in a big building it's individual "cottages" of two story things that look like houses. One cottage upstairs and one downstairs. I pass by there each week going to Publix. I noticed yesterday they are advertising move in specials and they are currently constructing phase 2.

Speaking of construction, within about a 5 mile radius of me there are at least 5 huge apartment complexes under construction. I think they are massively over building. They've overestimated demand and enough people willing to pay these rates and I think it's about to bite everyone in the rear end. I'm going to be watching these new places as they're built and see if they start advertising specials.

 

[Dotini]

Northwestern Europe coal futures prices:

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[Pupik]

I think they are massively over building. They've overestimated demand and enough people willing to pay these rates and I think it's about to bite everyone in the rear end. I'm going to be watching these new places as they're built and see if they start advertising specials.

The area had a...13-15% growth in the last decade, but will that continue?

 

[Dotini]

The multiple causes behind global price increases are explained. Simultaneous reduced economic growth and possible solutions are mentioned.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

The size of the millennial generation is to blame for sky-high inflation, strategist says

"The last time we saw what we call 'wolverine inflation' ... was when 75 million baby boomers replaced 44 million silent generation people in the 1970s," Smead said.

www.cnbc.com

K' boomer

 

[Suzuki-Cara]

Speaking of construction, within about a 5 mile radius of me there are at least 5 huge apartment complexes under construction. I think they are massively over building. They've overestimated demand and enough people willing to pay these rates and I think it's about to bite everyone in the rear end. I'm going to be watching these new places as they're built and see if they start advertising specials.

I always joked around in Highschool, that when a factory or supermarket goes under, and is subsequently torn down, that they would turn into condos.

In hindsight, that joke's even more hilarious since in my area, there are condos literally being propped up besides an interstate highway, not just former factories and supermarkets.

I don't know why people aren't forward thinking with these dumps to begin with. It's a trend, and I don't see Condos being something whatever the next generation's called, wanting to stay in one, let alone move in one.