Ultimate drivers car of all time

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3spddrft

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IShouldStudy
If a comparison test to find the best (street legal) drivers car ever was being done? What are good contenders?

When Motortrend did this recently they weren't able to get a lot of cars they wanted and they limited it to new cars. I want to remove those limitations and figure out who would be best to put in the comparison.

Thanks :-)

Here are cars that people have posted so far 10/25/2012 :-)

Alfa Romeo 4C
Alfa Romeo 8C-2300
Ariel Atom
Audi R8 V10+
BMW E30 M3
BMW E36 M3
BMW F22 M235i
Brabus Smart fortwo
Cadillac CTS-V Hennessy Hammer
Caterham R300 Superlight
Caterham RST-V8 Levante
Caterham Super 7
Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
Dodge Viper ACR
Ferrari 355
Ferrari 458 Speciale
Ferrari 550
Ferrari F50
Fiat 500 Abarth
Ford Fiesta ST
Honda Civic Type R Mugen
Honda DC2 Integra-R
Honda NSX
Honda S2000 Club Racer
Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8
Jaguar E-Type
Jaguar F-Type V8 S
Lancia Stratos
Lotus 340R
Lotus Cortina
Lotus Elan
Lotus Elise
Mazda MX5
Mazda RX7
Mclaren F1
Mercedes 190 E
Mercedes Benz SLS AMG Black
MGB
Mini Cooper S
Mitsubishi Lancer 6.5 TME
Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution MR
Nissan Fairlady Z S30
Nissan Juke GTR
Nissan Micra 350SR
Nissan Sentra B13 SE-R
Pagani Zonda F
Peugeot 205 GTI
Porsche 550
Porsche 911 996 GT3 RS
Porsche 911 997 Carrera 4S
Porsche 911 997 GT3
Porsche 911 Classic
Porsche Carrera GT
Porsche Cayman S
RenaultSport Clio Trophy
Renault Megane R26.R
Scion FRS
Subaru Mini Jumbo
Subaru WRX STI
Tesla Model S
Toyota AE86
Toyota MR2 W10
Toyota MR2 W20
Toyota MR-S
Toyota Supra Mark II
Volkswagen R32
Volkswagen Rabbit GTi
 
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/topic

McLaren-F1_mp117_pic_13327.jpg
 
Longhood 911
Mazda rx-7
E30 M3
Acura NSX
There are a lot Of good drivers cars out there, I think the best is subjective
 
The McLaren is a good suggestion, but really the whole thing is massively subjective and depends entirely what you want from a drivers car.

There's nothing really that suggests a drivers car has to be fast. Or even have four wheels. Some like manuals. Others like autos. Others like gearboxes with no synchromesh that need double-declutching on every gear. Some may prefer lots of grip, others prefer something with barely any grip so you can feel the car moving around at all times.

Off the top of my head, I'd have suggested something like the original Lotus Elan. But then I've never driven one. One of the best "drivers cars" I've ever driven was actually an MGB, a car that most econo-boxes could out-accelerate these days. Another is a 1964 Mini Cooper S, a car that to many people is "wrong wheel drive" but to anyone who has actually driven one is far more of a "drivers car" than 99% of rear-drive stuff.

I've got a supplement from Classic & Sports Car magazine lying handy here, a list of drivers cars compiled by people who've actually driven them. The Porsche 911 RS 2.7 comes top, followed by the F1, then a 1930s Alfa 8C-2300, then the Elan, and then the 1960s Mini Cooper S. Other cars in the list include the E-Type (driven one - pretty damn good), Peugeot 205 GTI and Lotus Elise - all of which often top such lists.

So hell, I'm not sure. I'd be tempted to agree with the magazine. And of stuff I've driven, Mini/MGB/early MX-5/Jag E-Type.
 
D--115.jpg


It's made for one thing... driving. Not listening to the radio, sipping coffee or hauling groceries.
 
evo Magazine UK did a similar story outlining the best 100 driver's cars of all time. Top 10 in reverse order were as follows:

10. Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution 6.5 TME

"‘It’s brilliant when you’re on it, but just a bit ordinary when you’re pootling around,’ says Barker. Simister was very impressed by its ‘steering, handling and remarkably absorbent ride’ and admits that the Makinen is ‘a truly lovely Evo’, even though he ‘doesn’t really get the whole Evo cult thing’. Metcalfe sums it up with: ‘A very desirable bit of kit if you like this sort of thing, but I think greater driver rewards are to be found elsewhere.’"

9. NA Mazda MX-5

"Everyone admired the balance and accessibility of the Mazda. ‘Light, delicate, agile, adjustable, comfortable. A car that sets itself realistic targets and hits every one plumb in the middle,’ says Vivian. But as Metcalfe comments, ‘There isn’t enough fire in its belly,’ so you enjoy it rather than get excited about it."

7=. Ferrari F50

"‘Old school’ was a phrase used by most and ‘wide’ was another word that cropped up a lot. ‘It is very hard, noisy and mechanical, but unerringly honest and communicative,’ says Vivian, before declaring it ‘a proper, hairy-balled supercar’. Which goes some way to explaining why Hayman loved it and has it third on his list (written on the back of a packet of Lambert & Butler)."

7=. RenaultSport Clio Trophy

"It isn’t the most pure or sophisticated car here but it is ridiculous fun. The suspension seems to have oodles of pitch and roll and what Hales describes as ‘a lot going on in the transients’ (like when changing direction), but the only time it really loses out is when people start talking about another Renault…"

6. Lotus Elan

"‘It is a fluent joy and its small size makes it very handy on tight roads,’ says the equally diminutive Simister. ‘The mechanical grip it can create from such minuscule tyres is little short of miraculous and the liberties you can take are little short of astonishing,’ says Metcalfe. That the original showed Mazda’s modern incarnation a clean pair of heals might seem incredible, but the genius of Colin Chapman should never be underestimated."

5. Renault Megane R26.R

"‘A beautifully sorted front-wheel-drive car,’ enthuses Hales. ‘The slightly larger dimensions [than the Clio] make all the difference to the way the chassis reacts and the way it puts down the power.’ Barker goes further still: ‘Magic from the moment the wheels turn to when they come to rest again. Exceptional damping and everything else matches – grip, steering feel and weight… everything.’"

4. Caterham R300 Superlight

"Barker, Hayman and I all had it top of our lists for its purity and the fact that you can’t get any closer to actually being connected to a car when driving. But Hales best sums up its brilliance and also why it doesn’t win: ‘There’s no denying the wonderful steering, which is sharp and more direct than the thought which commands it, or the way the front points without scaring you, or the way the tail then announces the onset of a slide while inviting you to keep your foot in. However, not everybody wants to be deafened and shaken, then probably soaked as well.’"

3. Porsche 911 996 GT3

"I have to confess that I love the 996 GT3 so much that I’ve spent long evenings thinking about spending what I was saving for a house deposit on a swoopy spoilered wonder instead. But as Barker says, ‘Although it is a drivers’ car for life – everyday practical, and with a depth of quality and reward that you would never tire of – it felt a bit “muffled” after the lightweights.’"

2. Lotus 340R

"‘The 340R is like an Elise turned up to 11,’ says unlikely Spinal Tap fan Metcalfe. ‘The chassis composure when really pushed is beyond brilliant; it’s close to unbelievable’. John Simister has the 340R at the top of his list ‘for its speed, purity, transparency and compactness. It provides a huge visceral buzz yet doesn’t assault you with the wrong sort of “noise”.’ ‘Sublime,’ says Barker."

And with a certain amount of surprise, number one was:

1. Pagani Zonda F

"Here’s how the praise stacks up. ‘A car that can comfortably live up to all the hype,’ says Metcalfe. ‘A supercar you really can drive as if it was an Elise, yet which gives you the full-scale Panavision, HD, Technicolor supercar experience. A car to melt the heart of the coldest, most stubborn supercar critic…’ says Barker, before handing over to that very critic in the form of Simister, who admits that ‘it appears to weigh nothing, it’s both visceral and forgiving and you feel in total control’. ‘Overwhelming, shattering, utterly addictive,’ concludes Vivian.

When you see a Zonda it is easy to treat it as art, something to be looked at and occasionally driven between backdrops, but next time try to look past all the carbonfibre confection because underneath is a truly, wonderfully fabulous drivers’ car. The greatest, in fact."

I might find the magazine to provide scans of the full top 100 if necessary. My choice on the other hand? Of the stuff that I've driven it would probably have to be the MX-5, closely followed by an (admittedly modified) R34 Nissan Skyline GT-R.
 
As already mentioned something like a MX-5 or a S2000. Lotus Elise and the Caterham are a must have.

BMW E36 is a must aswell. Mercedes 190 E!
 
Real World:

1. Honda S2000
2. Mazda RX-7 FD3S

Fantasy:

1. Mclaren F1
2. Ferrari F50

This is according to what I believe I would perceive as the best drivers cars considering my experience and preferences.
 
I'd say the late '60s F1's - skinny tires and a mid mounted 500+hp engine just begs for disaster to happen.

For a road car, though, I'd say McLaren F1 - 200+ with no assists of any sort just makes you and instant driving god.
 
k10_alto.jpg

No steering feel.
No brakes.
No power.
No mass.

End discussion.
 
"The chief qualities of a racing driver are concentration, determination and anticipation. A 1929 Austin without brakes develops all three - anticipation rather more than the first two, perhaps." - Graham Hill

:lol:

To me a great driver's car would be something that obliged to your every command without hesitation. Stuff like air-cooled 911s, 1950s and 1960s F1 cars, Lancia Stratos, Lotus Elan, late 50s Testarossas, etc. In short, anything that requires precision to drive well. A driver without precision won't be able to drive most of these all that well.
 
Ultimate driver's car? Well it has to do a number of things.

First, it has to have satisfying, feelsome controls. Which rules out most things with a flappy paddle gearbox or electric steering. It must sound fantastic, the exhaust note and intake roar must combine to bring a big smile to the face of the driver, so anything with a four cylinder and most things with a v6 are gone. It must have a surfeit of power, but not so much that it is intimidating for the weekend enthusiast (which most of us are). So that eliminates most of the current breed of hypercars, and certainly stuff like the McLaren F1, and it eliminates stuff like the MX5 or S2000. It must handle with precision, immediacy and delicacy, which takes away pretty much all the musclecars (be them German, American, English, Australian etc).

So you know what it is then? The ultimate driver's car? Well, it has a proper manual gearshift, operated through one of motoring's design icons, the milled h-pattern gate. It's small, and compact, so it's nimble. It has enough power to satisfy, but delivered in a sensible, linear fashion (IE not in a big diesely lump or in a turbocharged rush which could be difficult to meter out). It has the kind of engine note that makes you want to go looking for tunnels, or downshifting alongside rock-walls. It comes from one of the most evocative names in the motoring world.

It's the Ferrari 355.
 
Can you steer the Austin by sticking your foot out the door? No? Then the Alto still wins.

Conversely:

0208_20zoom+2001_nissan_sentra_se+bare_side_view.jpg


Horde_R35
SENNA HAS SPOKEN!!

This thread can be closed now. Thanks :sly:.

Senna_NSX.jpg
Click to expand...

He's saying the NSX is so boring, you have to get the tires sopping wet before going out. :lol:

[/humor]... just in case anyone takes that seriously.
 
peter_vod69
It must sound fantastic, the exhaust note and intake roar must combine to bring a big smile to the face of the driver, so anything with a four cylinder and most things with a v6 are gone
Click to expand...

While I think the F355 is actually a great suggestion, the above is perhaps a little ignorant. If you don't think a four-pot can bring a smile to your face then you've obviously not been listening to the right four-pots.

And I don't mean the default screamy Hondas which everyone bangs on about, but classics - Alfa twin cams, Lotus twin cams, rally-prepared A-Series engines in Minis, the mental noises made by some Group B cars... And that's just inline fours - throw V4s (Lancia Fulvia, mmmm) and boxer 4s (McRae's Impreza 555 from the 1995 WRC season) into the equation and there are some fantastic four-cylinder noises out there.
 
homeforsummer
While I think the F355 is actually a great suggestion, the above is perhaps a little ignorant. If you don't think a four-pot can bring a smile to your face then you've obviously not been listening to the right four-pots.

And I don't mean the default screamy Hondas which everyone bangs on about, but classics - Alfa twin cams, Lotus twin cams, rally-prepared A-Series engines in Minis, the mental noises made by some Group B cars... And that's just inline fours - throw V4s (Lancia Fulvia, mmmm) and boxer 4s (McRae's Impreza 555 from the 1995 WRC season) into the equation and there are some fantastic four-cylinder noises out there.
Click to expand...

They are definitely the exception to the rule.

PS - None of the examples you've nominated really can beat the noise of the 355 at full song through a tubi system. And the boxers sound like a regular engine with a misfire.
 
A 355 with it's flatplane crank sounds just like a pair of inline 4 twincams. Line up a pair of Vtec Civics with better breathing and freer flowing exhausts and the sound would be very similar to a 355.
 
peter_vod69
They are definitely the exception to the rule.

PS - None of the examples you've nominated really can beat the noise of the 355 at full song through a tubi system. And the boxers sound like a regular engine with a misfire.
Click to expand...

Please show me the regular engine with a misfire that sounds like McRae's rally car...

And so what if they're the "exception to the rule"? We're dealing with the "ultimate drivers car of all time" - every car we're discussing is an exception to the rule...
 

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