Unrealistic driving

  • Thread starter LVracerGT
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Bennen13
True, but not to this extent. My point was just that it doesn't make much sense that they are encouraging this driving style, when they'd never teach it, or that you'd ever use it in real life. Whether it be their school, or a professional race team.
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Yes, but that is out of fear of crashing or being inconsistent. Not because it's slower.
 
Goshin2568
Yes, but that is out of fear of crashing or being inconsistent. Not because it's slower.
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It would be a far slower driving style in real life, not only will it destroy the tyres it also isn't fast to have you back end swinging round every corner. GT academy has shown GT's physics up for what they are......unrealistic......................but its still a fun game, but I am disappointed its the people who are exploiting those flaws that are the ones who are going to get a golden chance of becoming a race driver
 
hennessey86
It would be a far slower driving style in real life, not only will it destroy the tyres it also isn't fast to have you back end swinging round every corner. GT academy has shown GT's physics up for what they are......unrealistic......................but its still a fun game, but I am disappointed its the people who are exploiting those flaws that are the ones who are going to get a golden chance of becoming a race driver
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👍 Just watch The Stig do a hotlap in any car, he'll get a little squirrely sure, but he'd never do this. GT5 promotes drifting just a little too much. But hey, I'm having a blast.
 
Bennen13
👍 Just watch The Stig do a hotlap in any car, he'll get a little squirrely sure, but he'd never do this. GT5 promotes drifting just a little too much. But hey, I'm having a blast.
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Of course cars do over steer, but this isn't what's happening in GT academy. They are not drifting either, its weird what they are doing its like they are sliding but have loads of grip at the same time. Its strange, I even tried it myself but the back end just came round every time I tried.
 
hennessey86
Of course cars do over steer, but this isn't what's happening in GT academy. They are not drifting either, its weird what they are doing its like they are sliding but have loads of grip at the same time. Its strange, I even tried it myself but the back end just came round every time I tried.
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True. It's like the kind of drift you'd get with a super-light, like a Caterham Super 7, but with a rear wing and this much weight you shouldn't really be able to do this. I don't know if it's the tires, or some kind of strange suspension setup, but it really is odd.
 
If the physics engine produces the most lateral and longitudinal grip at 10 degrees of slip, why would you think it's an exploit to corner a tyre with 10 degrees of slip?

As posted previously, you have to drive within the confines of the physics engine.
 
hennessey86
It would be a far slower driving style in real life, not only will it destroy the tyres it also isn't fast to have you back end swinging round every corner. GT academy has shown GT's physics up for what they are......unrealistic......................but its still a fun game, but I am disappointed its the people who are exploiting those flaws that are the ones who are going to get a golden chance of becoming a race driver
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The people that are able to exploit these so called flaws in the physics can do it because they have superior car control so they are the right people to gain the chance of becoming a racing driver.
 
alexpez
If the physics engine produces the most lateral and longitudinal grip at 10 degrees of slip, why would you think it's an exploit to corner a tyre with 10 degrees of slip?

As posted previously, you have to drive within the confines of the physics engine.
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^^100% this.

If the GT Acadamy was played in super mario kart, I wouldnt complain.
I'd try find the fastest way. And it that involves using star power so be it.
 
BanditKarter22
The people that are able to exploit these so called flaws in the physics can do it because they have superior car control so they are the right people to gain the chance of becoming a racing driver.
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The problem with this logic is that it's suggesting that mastery of GT physics means you're more likely to master real physics, and I just don't know that that link is all that causal. There's something there, certainly, but I'm not sure it really translates like the "adapt or die" theorists on here are claiming.

I think it's easiest to see when you bring in the fact that a really important element of car control is missing in the game, and that's what a car feels like when it's at a slip angle like that. The best players in GTA are controlling slip angles based on sight and sound; the reality is that, in real life, if you're waiting on the visual cues to correct/hold a slide, you're too late.

Now, that said, it's just part of the game. There's no way to account for that at all in home console gaming. But to suggest that those that do the best with car control in a hamstrung, virtual environment will also do the best in a real car on a real track is absurd.
 
The visual cues in simulators come as they would in real life (unless youve got latency in your output - at which point they are always late and make driving exponentially harder). In real life you have additional cues.

I don't think it's any suprise to see the top guys are quick in every simulator on the market, all of which are based on different physics engines to which they adapt to drive.

It's also worth noting that the in house Williams F1 simulator is static.
 
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alexpez
The visual cues in simulators come as they would in real life (unless youve got latency in your output - at which point they are always late and make driving exponentially harder). In real life you have additional cues.

I don't think it's any suprise to see the top guys are quick in every simulator on the market, all of which are based on different physics engines to which they adapt to drive.

It's also worth noting that the I house Williams F1 simulator is static.
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My point isn't that visual cues are useless, or even better or worse than physical cues, but that some drivers rely on/use one set of cues more effectively than others. Obviously you have to use both to a high degree to be successful in racing, but to cast out those who make use of feel more than sight (those who might be a tick off the pace here) as inherently slower in real life because they're slower on GTA just isn't correct.
 
I didn't have time to play today, too sunny outside...

But the more I look at the times in the leaderboards and the comments in the different forums, it's not only the ability to to adapt to the game physics, exploit the physic glitches,....

It's mainly a matter of time put into it. Some people play nothing than GTA for the last week and the week to come with a massive amount of hours.

They are entitled to it, no doubt.

But I honestly hope that, as suggested before, PD would consider a time limit (2x 1h) as there are people having a job and or family.

But KUDOS to all in the top ranks, your incredible fast and put an enormous dedication on the front page. I pull my hat
 
hennessey86
It would be a far slower driving style in real life, not only will it destroy the tyres it also isn't fast to have you back end swinging round every corner. GT academy has shown GT's physics up for what they are......unrealistic......................but its still a fun game, but I am disappointed its the people who are exploiting those flaws that are the ones who are going to get a golden chance of becoming a race driver
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300SRT8Fan
Actually it is slower.
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Ummm... Not really. Not praising the GT academy physics here, but if you ever look at the most famous racing drivers, what are they known for? The four-wheel drift technique. Being so much faster than everyone else because they can consistently scrub speed off the front tires without braking.

You guys ever heard of Tazio Nuvolari. He's a driving god. You ever read Enzo Ferrari's account of driving with him?

'With Ferrari as a passenger in Nuvolari's race car, the great pilota was pre-running the Three Provinces Circuit, upon which he had never competed. Writes Ferrari: "At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in a ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight in perfect position. I looked at him: his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not a face of someone who had just escaped a hair raising spin." Ferrari continued to note that he experienced the same sensation through the next several bends. "By the forth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime I noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instincts would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."'

You know who else was famous for this driving style? Stirling Moss. Jim Clark. Some even say Ayrton Senna.

When it's done right, it's not slower, not by a long shot. It's just never done because it's soooo inconsistent for most people to pull it off.
 
Goshin2568
Ummm... Not really. Not praising the GT academy physics here, but if you ever look at the most famous racing drivers, what are they known for? The four-wheel drift technique. Being so much faster than everyone else because they can consistently scrub speed off the front tires without braking.

You guys ever heard of Tazio Nuvolari. He's a driving god. You ever read Enzo Ferrari's account of driving with him?

'With Ferrari as a passenger in Nuvolari's race car, the great pilota was pre-running the Three Provinces Circuit, upon which he had never competed. Writes Ferrari: "At the first bend, I had the clear sensation that Tazio had taken it badly and that we would end up in a ditch; I felt myself stiffen as I waited for the crunch. Instead, we found ourselves on the next straight in perfect position. I looked at him: his rugged face was calm, just as it always was, and certainly not a face of someone who had just escaped a hair raising spin." Ferrari continued to note that he experienced the same sensation through the next several bends. "By the forth or fifth bend I began to understand; in the meantime I noticed that through the entire bend Tazio did not lift his foot from the accelerator, and that, in fact, it was flat on the floor. As bend followed bend I discovered his secret. Nuvolari entered the bend somewhat earlier than my driver's instincts would have told me to. But he went into the bend in an unusual way: with one movement he aimed the nose of the car at the inside edge, just where the curve itself started. His foot was flat down, and he obviously changed down to the right gear before going through this fearsome rigmarole. In this way he put the car into a four wheel drift, making the most of the thrust of the centrifugal force and keeping it on the road with the traction of the driving wheels. Throughout the bend the car shaved the inside edge, and when the bend turned into the straight the car was in the normal position for accelerating down it, with no need for any corrections."'

You know who else was famous for this driving style? Stirling Moss. Jim Clark. Some even say Ayrton Senna.

When it's done right, it's not slower, not by a long shot. It's just never done because it's soooo inconsistent for most people to pull it off.
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You are bringing up examples of driving several decades ago. Back then this was the fastest way around the track due to the lack of grip, downforce, sophisticated suspension and other features. This driving style is still faster in certain cars like I said before (e.g. super-lights, AWD's), but in most cars, and what should include this one, it isn't. Unless this car has some sort of bizarre suspension setup (it could), it should be pretty neutral considering it's stats and features. Not trying to start an argument or anything, or be a prick, but this really is the case.
 
Ok but how do you know that? If no one has the balls, the money, and the skills to do it in real life, how do you know that it isn't faster? Just because it hasn't been done doesn't make it slower.

Like I said, if the sole reference point for this was GTA, than I wouldn't be pushing so hard, but if you look at top times for any sim, LFS, NKP, iRacing, alot of them are done with this type of driving style. Unlimited time and resources allows sim racers to find lines and methods of driving that wouldn't be possible in real life with time and budget constraints.
 
I'm not saying I am 100% percent correct, I could be flat-out wrong, but from reading many books and other things that supply advice from professional drivers this usually isn't the case. This style was used in the early days of racing because the tires had very little grip, and the way for them to get their maximum performance was to take such extremes. And back then racing was all about extremes.

Nowadays teams have complex setups to get the very most out of their tires, and don't usually have to go to such extremes to get their maximum performance. look at F1 thirty years ago, when every driver was as sideways as a rally car, and look at F1 now. They haven't stopped doing it because it's dangerous, more inconsistent, more expensive or because the drivers are worse (because it was probably just as expensive, and a hell of a lot more dangerous). But GT isn't a dead-on sim, and I may be completely wrong. I'm just giving my two-cents on it.
 
Bennen13
I'm not saying I am 100% percent correct, I could be flat-out wrong, but from reading many books and other things that supply advice from professional drivers this usually isn't the case. This style was used in the early days of racing because the tires had very little grip, and the way for them to get their maximum performance was to take such extremes. And back then racing was all about extremes.

Nowadays teams have complex setups to get the very most out of their tires, and don't usually have to go to such extremes to get their maximum performance. look at F1 thirty years ago, when every driver was as sideways as a rally car, and look at F1 now. They haven't stopped doing it because it's dangerous, more inconsistent, more expensive or because the drivers are worse (because it was probably just as expensive, and a hell of a lot more dangerous). But GT isn't a dead-on sim, and I may be completely wrong. I'm just giving my two-cents on it.
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Yes, of course they don't teach it. If you showed up to a track day driving like that you'd be black flagged. Think about how many times you've overshot it and restarted in GTA? I'm going to say this again, it's not done because no one is good enough to do it like that all of the time, even most of the time, without screwing up and crashing. Or doing it wrong and shredding the tires. But when it done right, which it can be with infinite restarts in sims, it's going to be faster.


EDIT: Maybe this will help my point a little. This is a video of a lap record on Live For Speed, a sim with much more realistic physics than GT5. It's in a Formula BMW, a very fundamental driving car. The driving style used for this world record seems pretty close to the driving style used by top GTA times.

You can see this the most from about 0:50 to the end.

 
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Off topic but how many times did that guy go completely off the track?!? I thought GT5 had poor detection systems.
 
Yes, but he's not sliding anywhere near the levels of the top GTA drivers (except for a couple), and that amount of sliding is much more common, and much more widely used. Drivers in NASCAR and F1 will use a little slide like that, because it's more like a power induced four-wheel drift caused by the weight transfer under acceleration, not a trail-brake induced slide.
 
Whatever. I'm not a fan of GT5's physics engine, but I think it might be a little unfair to blame the physics for fast times. You really have no idea whether that would actually be faster or not, so I just don't see why everyone just assumes that it's unrealistic.
 
Here is a lap of mine in Ferrari Virtual Academy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EU63YwptP2o

You can do quite aggressive gear changes in the direction you want to go. Last corner I just got away with it and it was not a slow exit. In most other sims you can get away with big weight transfers and it will help you go faster, it is not limited to GT and maybe not just limited to virtual world but happens to an extent in the real world.
 
Maybe GTA should have added tire wear then we would see if all this sliding around the track really works. I would think that by turn 5 the car would be driving the same as cars in GT4 with "Bold Red tires" does:ouch:.
 
opelgt1969
Maybe GTA should have added tire wear then we would see if all this sliding around the track really works. I would think that by turn 5 the car would be driving the same as cars in GT4 with "Bold Red tires" does:ouch:.
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It will be a bigger advantage to people who are doing the fastest laps as they driving the most smoothly and keeping the car within traction limits. People who are driving slower might be working the tyres harder and suffer more wear so will be at a bigger hindrance. Be careful of what you wish for ;).
 
saidur_ali
It will be a bigger advantage to people who are doing the fastest laps as they driving the most smoothly and keeping the car within traction limits. People who are driving slower might be working the tyres harder and suffer more wear so will be at a bigger hindrance. Be careful of what you wish for ;).
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I can't do it myself but I've raced people who could go very quickly and still have good tyre wear, I just go very quickly with bad tyre wear :D
 
Considering the results of past GT academies...

It seems to be working.

So whine all you want. The unrealistic drivers will be driving for real while you will still be whining.
 

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