Unrealistic physics/features in GT5P

[Kryz11]

Ahh leave it alone...

You use a wheel to play it? Like everyone says, you are missing half the experience.


Yes it's hard to do burnouts, doughnuts, etc. Seems GT is aiming for Fast speed physics then low speed physics. It's funny how PD always compares same car with real car, and manages to do same lap times or something similar.. Yet you can not do things like doughnuts or burnouts realistically enough LOL!

 

[BMfan]

It's a pleasure.
To the mods please close my profile

 

[Kryz11]

^^^ Oh wow..

So why wont PD switch to PC? I love my PS3, GT5P is great sim, but imagine what they could do with PC and almost unlimited power? I am for sure they would fix the problems in no time.

 

[BMfan]

i am sure they could but then we could have a game like crisis that needs very good specs to run average.
I can't wait to see what PD do when they finally harness the power of the PS3.

 

[phil_2001]

I don't look too deep into realisticness thing and I don't demand it to be realistic in order to enjoy it. I feel it is an interesting game, it engages myself like no other racing game probably because it has a lot to give.

 

[BMfan]

I don't look too deep into realisticness thing and I don't demand it to be realistic in order to enjoy it. I feel it is an interesting game, it engages myself like no other racing game probably because it has a lot to give.

same

 

[The Outlaw]

Thanks for the positive contribution guys 👍

The aerodynamics seems completely off, changing the imaginary wing unit to alter downforce sure down force increases but the increased drag isn't noticeable, it becomes a huge advantage to run with full wing all the time no matter what the track.

I agree. I'm not sure how PD missed something so elementry, but they did and hopefully it gets fixed by the time GT5 is released 👍

Then of course we have to notorious super draft, every car seems to displace the same air of a truck in its wake which gives a huge tow for the car behind to leapfrog the guy in front.

The super draft definately needs to go, at least at the Expert level. I would imagine this will be eliminated (or be optional) by the time GT5 is released. The superdraft is rather frustrating at places like Daytona and Fuji where you'll be able to pull out a nice lead in the infield, only to have the guy draft you from a mile back and squeak by you going into the braking zone, so he can hold you up in the infield. I don't see the point in giving the guy behind a 1-2 second a lap handicap just so he can keep up and make a race that really shouldn't be taking place. Let the best man win! What's the point in racing if you give someone such a unfair advantage/handicap?

2. The 'Yaw' movement is exaggerated and needs to be toned down. It's almost as if PD tried too hard in implementing some driving physics and just over did some aspects abit.

3. Road tyres(N3) don't feel natural and needs to be looked at. Maybe its a combination of steering strength, too much yaw movement and oversteer. The engine note when the car is pushed past it limits on a bend is too sedate - almost as if you at 2000rpm when it actually reads 5000rpm and should sound as if its under 'load'.

Great points. The N tires definately feel a bit exageratted in terms of the lack lateral traction. When driving on N tires it feels like the racing surface is covered in rain or some type of lubricant. Maybe PD is testing some type of weather affect though. 💡 Who knows. Either way, to replicate the traction traits of N tires on a dry surface, it would take a worn out, hardened all-season tire to do so. Not a brand new factory Michelin PS2, Bridgestone RE-070, etc.

Also you bring up a great point about the engine tone under load. The engine tone never really seems to changes regardless of any type of load it is under. Improving this would definately make the game much more realisitic and involving. I'd also like to see more rawness in the overall engine, drivetrain, and road sounds. Unfortunately the PC sims blow away GT5P in this important department.

I think this will go a long way to improving the best driving sim on the market:tup:

@timeattack07:

Fair enough... I was thinking more along the lines of real-life tuning. You get to a point in NA tuning where you can't increase the torque any further... you simply move it up the rev range. What I was getting at was that the torque units don't increase on the graph at the same rate as the hp units, which means that it won't look in any way like a regular dyno-graph, which usually uses the same units for both measures... and yes, I agree, PD should put a matrix so we can actually tell what we're looking at. It kinda helps to know what rpm 90% power comes at, if the car loses a lot of power at redline, so you can set your gearing up to reflect this.

Gotcha. I agree with your last few points as well.


The GT-R and VDC off... everyone who uses it says they see a gain in performance from this. Again, I don't know what factor of VDC slows the car down, but who knows? It might even be psychological. In my experience, cars with more grip than power can get a boost in acceleration from spinning the tires a little... but there also may be something in the way GT5P models the non-existent clutch or torque converter on cars. There's a built-in torque-limiter and rev-matching in GT5P... one that cuts the power on shifts and prevents unsettling torque from reaching the tires (probably also the cause of the engine-braking everyone is complaining about). Maybe the loss of traction gets around this behaviour, or maybe it's just a way of preventing the engine from bogging down in corners.

The GT-R has quite a broad torque curve. There is no valid reason why spinning the wheels exiting the corner would make it accelerate quicker in reality, given that it is easily at its peak torque when exiting the corner in a normal fashion. Like you said, some cars (with a lack of low end torque, peaky powerband and wide gearing) can possibly benefit from slightly slipping the tires or clutch kicking. This of course helps to kick the rpms up a bit into the window where it makes more torque in the rpm range.

I think the springs and shocks are a scalar value based on stock values... so... with "stock" springs at 2, 10 is 5 times stiffer than stock... and with "stock" shocks at 1, 10 is 10 times stiffer than stock... whatever stock is. Which means that cars that are stiff to begin with have an unfair advantage in-game.

Like I said before, we are on the same page here 👍

I don't look too deep into realisticness thing and I don't demand it to be realistic in order to enjoy it. I feel it is an interesting game, it engages myself like no other racing game probably because it has a lot to give.

Fair enough 👍 I definately enjoy GT5P more than any other racing game I have experienced. I just think that if we are content with what we have been given so far, we will not seen any improvements in the future. This is why we gotta keep the pressure up on PD to deliver the best they possibly can. 👍

 

[Grandi]

In some cases engine braking can decrease stopping distances in reality, but this is usually just with 4wd cars when braking from high speed, in a STRAIGHT LINE. You're not going to see benefits from bouncing off the rev limiter in a RWD car while braking around a radiused turned, or while trail braking. You would just end up completly upsetting the balance of the car, likely causing a sudden loss of rear grip.

I guess it depends on the RWD car driven. Here's my favourite engine braking clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT4jotKiOow

 

[Ghost_drift]

All very good stuff. I do think we have to wait and see what PD come up with. And if GT5 has the same tuning as prolouge does ie, this unrealistic PP system that seems to hounor some cars and curse others. Things like the Imprezza bug are just that, A bug. the tuning is suspect to say the least, But PD have already made phisics changes to GT5P, so they are obviously working on them. Although one thing I have to praise PD for is there TCS, and ASM phisics. On most games even GT4. it always seemed like they used TCS and ASM, as some sort of dificulty setting rather than what it actualy is. I was amazed to fined that even without TCS and ASM the cars are still very drivable like they are in real life. so well done to you on that PD.

 

[The Outlaw]

I guess it depends on the RWD car driven. Here's my favourite engine braking clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT4jotKiOow

That's an absolutely awesome example of engine braking at its finest 👍

As I pointed out in my original post, engine braking ONLY works if you're braking in a straight line. You can see in this clip that all of his rev limiter riding is done before the initial turn in for T1. In reality if you were to engine brake at say T1 at Daytona (a radiused braking zone) like shown in the clip you posted, the rear end would surely lose traction and cause you to spin violently. When engine braking with a RWD car in a straight line, all of the rear tires potential grip is used solely for braking. Any lateral movement will cause the tire to go outside of it's traction circle, which in turn would cause a sudden loss of traction. In the game you can not only engine brake in a straight line but also when going around a radius curved or while trailbraking as I orginally mentioned. This is what is extremely unrealistic, and of course not good practice if you use GT5P to enhance and improve your real life driving skills.

 

[Kryz11]

Great Example!

By the way does truckers use then engine to brake ? Or something similar?

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

I wish there was an option to switch between the pure "dirving Simulator" and the standard arcade/general user version. I know thats what the "settings and TCS/ABS/ASM are for, but even with those OFF it's not a TRUE Simulator. It's close, but not as much of a Simulator like Live For Speed. Now i'm no hardware genius or expert, but if the PS3 is supposed to be as powerful and quick as the latest computers, then they can surely run a game like LFS physics am i wrong?

I think the problem is PD is trying to appeal to a larger market of people who like driving games, turning it into a hardcore simulator would probably deter 1/2 if not more of the targeted audience. I'm with you guys, bring on the realism! I want to feel like i'm driving that amuse s2000, or the Tuned Evo etc. I love trying to keep cars like the Z06 straight, fast and On the track. 👍

I still can't wait for Full GT5, as the physics the way they are make a FUN game and driving experience to me, but i wouldn't compare it to real simulators like Live for speed etc.

 

[earnhard3]

I can not power side like i can in real life or do donuts. If it were more real it would be more fun! Same with car setup just as the thread has discussed

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Hmm. I dont' care much for donuts, but i've certainly noticed i can now power-slide. Just turn off all aids and go with Professional mode. Are you sure you're playing the same game as me?

42

I wish there was an option to switch between the pure "dirving Simulator" and the standard arcade/general user version. I know thats what the "settings and TCS/ABS/ASM are for, but even with those OFF it's not a TRUE Simulator. It's close, but not as much of a Simulator like Live For Speed. Now i'm no hardware genius or expert, but if the PS3 is supposed to be as powerful and quick as the latest computers, then they can surely run a game like LFS physics am i wrong?

Wait. Arent Need 4 Speed and Gran Turismo two different games?

 

[earnhard3]

The cars seem to snap loose and not recover as I would think. Maybe my setup is not right or I am thinking it wrong or don't have the right feel?

It seems to me that GT is a mix of arcade and sim??

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I also noticed that there's still no tyre marks, no matter how much wheelspin I have. And this has been happening since GT1.

I also feel that the sense of weight is quite poor when compared to Ferrari Challenge. The reason I loved GT1 & 2 back in the day (even until now) is because the cars all have a realistic sense of weight (compared to games of its generation anyway). This is not the case with GT5P. Maybe it's because I'm using a controller. With a wheel and force feedback I think it's better, but I don't know for sure since I've never tried.

Also, the tracks are way too perfect. I mean, which racetrack in the world has absolutely no imperfections in the road (bumps, marbles, cracks, etc)? When driving in a straight line it's really obvious, even more so in cockpit view because the steering wheel isn't moving at all. Compare this to F1CE where in cockpit view your hands and head are always shaking around.

@ Parnelli: It's Live For Speed, not Need For Speed. Although the next NFS is supposed to be a sim from what I've heard .

 

[HUGHS1E]

O my god, I can’t believe that engine breaking clip, I was taught that if I did that my gearbox would blow to pieces, keep the thread going guy’s some great points being stated, I didn’t know that engine breaking slowed you down faster on gt5p I have always tried to come down the gears off the limiter, also wondered why a few people have blown me away big time in STI’s, good to know it wasn't just me being too slow,

When I was trying to get into GT academy using my sixaxis I did learn that releasing X(accelerator) while changing gear helped when I short shifted, (If you changed gear as the wheels where spinning there was a slight delay before the next gear was selected and the car bogged down, if I changed and let go of X just as I changed up it didn’t delay so accelerated faster out of the turn) ps, this was at the time when power shifts were used with G25’s so I’m not sure if it has being patched like the G25, Sorry I have not tested this before my post but my PS3 has died

I do feel that the RWD cars in GT5p react as if they have no LSD, maybe PD are struggling with how to create the sensation of when the LSD would lock?

 

[Grandi]

That's an absolutely awesome example of engine braking at its finest 👍

As I pointed out in my original post, engine braking ONLY works if you're braking in a straight line. You can see in this clip that all of his rev limiter riding is done before the initial turn in for T1. In reality if you were to engine brake at say T1 at Daytona (a radiused braking zone) like shown in the clip you posted, the rear end would surely lose traction and cause you to spin violently. When engine braking with a RWD car in a straight line, all of the rear tires potential grip is used solely for braking. Any lateral movement will cause the tire to go outside of it's traction circle, which in turn would cause a sudden loss of traction. In the game you can not only engine brake in a straight line but also when going around a radius curved or while trailbraking as I orginally mentioned. This is what is extremely unrealistic, and of course not good practice if you use GT5P to enhance and improve your real life driving skills.

My point regarding this matter was actually in the last two corners (Netz and Panasonic), where Kogure is using very high rpm while decelerating in a curved braking zone. He's most likely using lower braking pressure and wants to achieve more turning ability to the front wheels by doing that (as we all know, that part of Fuji is a world of extreme understeer). I think it's also worth noting that he's driving a car with a naturally aspirated, high-revving engine that requires a lot of pumping work.

By performing different magnitudes of engine braking in those kind of situations, he can shape the total front/rear brake balance of the car in the way he sees fit. I would imagine it's also beneficial in terms of maintaining brake temperature.

As for the video you first showed, I think one could perform a bit of an additional test. Raising the rear brake pressure high enough so that the rear end is on the limit of losing grip even when the clutch is down, then trying again with the clutch up, gradually increasing the rev level while braking. I'm guessing the tyres aren't at their maximum performance, and the existing rear brake pressure combined with engine braking isn't enough to induce traction loss, even when braking like you did in Daytona.

Another thing in both Kogure's and your laps, is the operation of the differential, in other words, why the driving wheels don't lock up the instant the rapid downshift is made. GT5P doesn't give any options regarding this matter, so it's basically impossible to test at the moment.


Regards,

Karri

 

[vr6wantsr20det]

When you guys are engine braking in GT5p, are you heel-toe rev-matching? If you watch option videos etc, they are always heel-toeing to slow the car down quicker and also to be in the correct gear when exiting the turn so they are in the upper RPM where most of the power-band is. If people are barreling into turns and just going down gears without rev-matching THEN there would be drive-train/engine damage and that would totally upset the balance of the tires (especially in RWD cars).

I know when i play since i started heel-toeing when braking it really helps slow you down quicker and doesn't upset the car/tire balance. I do hope they implement engine/drive-train damage like Forza does. I'll always remember playing forza and accidentally going down 2 gears instead of 1 when coming to a turn and hearing the engine ping, and then notice my car lose power and a trail of smoke coming from the car


Great Example!

By the way does truckers use then engine to brake ? Or something similar?

Truckers do have something called "Jake Braking". Have you ever been next to a truck and when it's decelerating you hear the exhaust gurgling/popping. They are using the compression of the motor to slow them down to save on brakes. It's LOUD in some rural areas, you see signs "No Jake Braking".

 

[ghis_10ae]

Here is the unrealistic effects I have notice (professionnel setting):

- The cars will sideslip when halted on the banked curve on Daytona? Not sure if it is happening for all tires but at least for S2 and lower.

- When breaking to a complete stop the tires will slip at the end instead of gripping and transferring all the weight on the front. (like it happen if you start from a light and suddently hit the break)

- Like someone mentionned the weight feeling of the cars seem off. This is obvious in the Eiger Nordwand track when the car lift off the ground. Try it with the S2000 and you will see the tail go down a lot sooner then the front does even if it is a FR car (probably because PD is adding the increase downforce of the rear wing) but it should not be calculated this way when the car is off the ground.

- Regarding sounds there are a couple of them missing like suspension components sound when hitting bumps, transmission sounds (some do make weird gear noises), sound of rocks and debris hitting the wheel arches and body when running race tires.

- Like everyone else the tuning is not realistic and is missing components like swaybar, tire temps, real spring rate values,...

I am not complening against PD because I know it is extremely hard to come up with the good compromise to replicate realword physics in a game but they have a couple of area where they can improve their existing model and they will most likely do it before the final release. My expectation is that they should be at least as realistic as the other one out there (PC and console games).

Sorry for my bad writing english is not my primary language.

GP

 

[Stotty]

Couple of general points on down changes and the Fuji video...

In the Fuji video... When down changing, he's not exceeding the rev limit for the engine - or if he is, it's only my a tiny amount.

A down changes that results in an engine spinning significantly beyond its rev limit will damage or destroy that engine (allowing for some margin for safety on the rev limit vs the absolute capability of the engine). Rev limiters do not and cannot prevent an engine over-reving on down changes in the same way they do whilst accelerating, it's just a simple calculation of engine speed = wheel speed x gear ratio. Example...

Your race car is geared to do 100mph at 8,000 rpm in 3rd gear at the limiter

If you down change from 4th to 3rd at 120mph the engine will be forced to spin to 9,600rpm (given perfect traction).

The margin for safety on your race engine is 800rpm

The likely result of over revving by 800rpm even momentarily is that valves will meet pistons and you will have a very expensive mess on your hands.

Down changing hard whilst turning is specifically possible in cars like the Japanese GT car for 2 reasons... 1) the ECU rev matches on downchanges with the sequential box helping prevent rear lock up by matching engine speed with wheel speed (an automated toe/heel shift) and 2) they have differentials that work to prevent rear lock up under down changes... in GT speak, this is the 'decel' adjustment seen in GT4 on the fully adjustable differential.

 

[PAPPACLART]

The best way to optimise your gearing is work out the thrust which is measured in lbs in each gear. I have a program somewhere where you can input individual gear ratios, tire circumference, final drive and torque figures at different ponts in the RPM rang. You can then change the gear ratios and the program will update and show you new thrust figures etc.

Some one mentioned something about NA engines, and the torque figures hitting a brick wall if tuned. If I understood correctly, NA engines are only capable of producing so much torque. (torque per litre ratio). As an example a 1000cc engine is likely never able to produce 100ft/lb without the help of a turbo or supercharger. Traditionally to increase power in an NA engine, ultimately you have to make the engine spin faster. Obviously with exhaust replacement, and other fine tuning will only take you so far.

As an example, a good 100bhp 1000cc 4 cylinder engine may produce it's peak BHP at 7000rpm and also produce 85t/lb of torque at 5500rpm. a 200bhp 1000cc inline 4 will produce it's peak BHP at 14000rpm and still only manage approx 75ft/lb of torque, tho now the peak torque will be produced at higher rpms, lets say about 11000rpm. As power is a multiplication of torque x rpms , producing a higher torque figure at higher rpm will net you more BHP.

Just look at the spec of a 1000cc motorcycle engine vs a 1000cc car engine and you will see what I mean.

The only way a 1000cc engine can produce mopre then 100ft/lb or a 2000cc engine producing more than 200fr/lb (100ft/lb per litre -1000cc) is with the use of race fuel and very exotic and light engine materials - a la F1 car, tho still you may only get 105/110 in extreme casesft/lb per lite but I even doubt this etc.

The above has always been an annoyance for me throughout the GT series, as often tuning an NA engine without the use of Turbos and Superchargers yielded unrealistic results where as an example we would have a 2 litre civic engine that is tuned, producing it's peak power/torque at too low revs, and producing way more torque per litre than actually possible without the use of a turbo or supercharger.

If you check the specs of any NA car you will not find one producing more than 100ft/lb per litre.

I do not have GT4 at the moment, but if somebody could tune a Civic Type R and without using turbos or Supercharges, or big bore and pass on the peak BHP and torque figure at what RPM's they are achieved at, and I will show you how wrong they are.

 

[Grandi]

2) they have differentials that work to prevent rear lock up under down changes... in GT speak, this is the 'decel' adjustment seen in GT4 on the fully adjustable differential.

👍 my point as well in the previous post. A shame we don't have any diff. settings in prologue at the moment.

 

[Asylum]

Ahh leave it alone...

You use a wheel to play it? Like everyone says, you are missing half the experience.


Yes it's hard to do burnouts, doughnuts, etc. Seems GT is aiming for Fast speed physics then low speed physics. It's funny how PD always compares same car with real car, and manages to do same lap times or something similar.. Yet you can not do things like doughnuts or burnouts realistically enough LOL!

This is exactally my point ^^.

I think this is because the guys at pd wanted to make a racing game and have NO CLUE on how cars react when they loose that presious traction. I think they need to bring in a few D1 drifters and have them explain or tell them the flaws in the way there physics react when the car breaks traction.

Personally i think pd has no intention on fixing these issues because its "The real RACING simulator" LOL they should change there title to "The Semi Real Game"

things that need to be fixed with a quickness.

1 clutch ( its the most pointless thing they have in the game neutral lock is a joke u can power shift any real car but lets face it they removed it cause the gt5 wheel is the dfgt and they dont even have a clutch)


2 screenshake and incar driving position ( its too far forward in every car u cant even see the guys arm or shifter anything were not all midgets and sit that close to the wheel... the screenshake while in car is HORRIBLE have an option to remove it. when you drift or break loose the incar shakes violently and makes me sick want to puke.)


3 wheel rotation options ( RETARDED not to have that option to limit the cars rotation when swaping from normal cars to f1 car, or others that usually have less rotation like if we get actuall race cars there not 900 rotation) BUT MAKE THIS AUTO SWAP TO THE CARS ROTATION not user selected


4 drafting ( MY GOD ARE YOU KIDDING? u can catch a draft like 3 football fields behind thats a little too overkill in my book )

5 Drift trials ( HAHAHA WHAT AN EPIC FAIL got to stay as close to a blue line as possible with angle. THIS DOES NOT INCORPERATE SPEED i can carry the same line using n1 then swap to n3 or s1 and i get WAYYY less of a score while SPEED IS A BIG FACTOR IN DRIFTING


6 smoke and tire marks ( there is no smoke view able in the rear view or skid marks left on the track HOW IS THAT CLASSIFIED AS A SIM LOLOL )


7 track damage. ( if you hit a gaurd rail there should be visable damage on that railing also same deal with grass but that kind of goes in the skidmark catagory)


I could go on for a while but ill leave you guys with this for the moment. There should be NO excuses NOT to fix these issues as the ps3 is tons faster than the previous versoins and lets face it its faster then my pc ( yes my pc is old as dirt) so they cant blame it on hardware

 

[Kryz11]

Hmm I think GT5P nail Drifting.. well I dont know. but it does look very realistic in replay mode when other players do it.

1. What exactly is POWER SHIFTING? All they have to do is improve CLUTCH, so it will work 100% not just ON-OFF switch.

2. I like the screen shake, once wheels loose traction, it tells you, replicates the scare factor.. Does not make me wanna puke.

3. 900 .. hmm Fanatec wheel fixes that As well DFP can be set to 180 or 360 something like that.

4. Drafting. I really do not know how it works, going 150 MPH, I never did that behind another car, so I would not know. On TV they say you can overtake car with drafting, but they do it one car at time, becasue they want to be cautious about it, in GT you do not care so you overtake 10 cars at a time . So thats a factor to consider

5. I dont drift so i dont care lol

6. I do not care if you see smoke in rear mirror.. because you need more power.. But smoke should be more visible and stay longer, and yeah we need skidmarks.

7. I dont care for track damage, maybe some coloring or tire marks on walls etc.. I would rather see internal car damage

 

[Asylum]

Hmm I think GT5P nail Drifting.. well I dont know. but it does look very realistic in replay mode when other players do it.

1. What exactly is POWER SHIFTING? All they have to do is improve CLUTCH, so it will work 100% not just ON-OFF switch.

2. I like the screen shake, once wheels loose traction, it tells you, replicates the scare factor.. Does not make me wanna puke.

3. 900 .. hmm Fanatec wheel fixes that As well DFP can be set to 180 or 360 something like that.

1 POWER SHIFTING is when you shift you can keep your foot on the floor slam the clutch in shift VERY quick and drop the clutch in real life there is NO NEUTRAL LOCK.. Also in gt5p if you try to quick shift while the tires are spining it will catch neutral ALSO COMPLETELY FAKE!!!!!

2 screen shake you misunderstood me what im saying is while incar view the car shakes around violently while drifting VERY UNREALISTIC i can understand why its there tho so NOOBS can relize visually that there car is braking traction

3 you completly missed the boat on this one too. the game should automaticly adjust to the rotation of the car your driving for instance my g25 is 900 rotation but when i get in the f1 car ( that is FAR LESS rotation ) my wheel still rotates 900 degrees


hope i cleared that up



Also i would like to say that on the cover it says " the real racing simulator" i know this is not a drift game BUT untill they fix some of the tire physics clutch physics ect they should REMOVE that from the cover and replace it with "The Real Racing GAME" NOT simulator because sims usualy have worked these bugs out LONG before they release a demo of full game... just expressing my view agree or disagree you have to admit im not wrong here

 

[Zer0]

Also i would like to say that on the cover it says " the real racing simulator" i know this is not a drift game BUT untill they fix some of the tire physics clutch physics ect they should REMOVE that from the cover and replace it with "The Real Racing GAME" NOT simulator because sims usualy have worked these bugs out LONG before they release a demo of full game... just expressing my view agree or disagree you have to admit im not wrong here

It's Driving instead of Racing and "The Real Driving Simulator" not "The Real Simulator of PC Simulators", by your logic all other simulators would be called games since all them has a lot of bugs compared to the Real thing.

 

[Asylum]

It's Driving instead of Racing and "The Real Driving Simulator" not "The Real Simulator of PC Simulators", by your logic all other simulators would be called games since all them has a lot of bugs compared to the Real thing.

Yes there is no perfect simulator i wont argue that one bit, but when the game specifically says simulator and doesnt have easy bug fixes already worked out then add some neutral lock ontop of that.....

Simulators will ALWAYS be that a simulator because its simulating the reactions and functions that a real car has, but to call a game a simulator when these functions are not working the way they really should it realy isnt a simulator is it.

its not enough to make me want to stop playing tho but if we dont voice our opinions pd will think that were happy with the way things are and wont look into correcting these bugs then what will we be left with.

Im not tryign to be a negative nancy HAHA there are tons more positives then there are negatives with this GAME so far its just the small things they need to work out to be able to classify this GAME as a simulator.

 

[niky]

Hmmm... need more citation regarding the Subaru toe bug.

Just tried it... free run in Online mode. STI 07. Used online so I could do suspension adjustments and still race my own Ghost.

Bone stock, S3 tires at daytona, no discernible difference between 0 0 Toe, 50 -50, and -50 50.

But Daytona is a terrible place to do this at. The curved banking means that adjusting your angle slightly gives you a small advantage (but not one that equals to more than two or three feet) against a previous run.

Bone stock, R3 tires at High speed ring... with the added leveller of using an automatic transmission (to ensure even shifts) and drag-launching (no wheelspin, no TCS... this is stock on R3 tires, remember) from the 29th slot on the starting grid, (lined up by eye from third person view... shadow sitting on the white line) absolutely no difference in pace, whatever the toe setting. In fact, both extremes of toe setting were slightly slower when approaching top speed than 0 0 toe.

Whether the so-called "Toe-bug" yields better acceleration out of a corner will be more a function of how it affects the levels of oversteer and understeer of the car than actual straightline traction. I'm still reviewing this. From what I've seen so far, excessive front toe in and rear toe out cause instability and understeer... while excessive front toe out and rear toe in cause instability and oversteer, oversteer which might account for that increase in pace through Suzuka. But in a straight acceleration exercise, there are no benefits from running excess toe in any combination.

What is the stock torque split of the GTR 07? Am about to test this. Does this occur with radically more power than stock, or with near stock levels of power?

 

[The Outlaw]

Hey Niky, the toe bug may have been something that PD has fixed by now, I don't know as I haven't tried using the car nor the bug in several months. Early this year a few Italian members tested the bug and came up with a detailed description of how it worked. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3261362&highlight=subaru+toe+bug#post3261362 Here were their findings: "The bugs in Subaru start only with Hard tuning (i.e. 85% weight and +60 CV ), with power and weight near standard the bugs are irrilevant.

The condition are:

Traction 45/55

TOE -0.50 F -0.50 R ( but the effects of bugs start from -0.040 +0.40)

RIDE HEIGHT from 0 to + value F and R

Here's a video that they captured from a few months back demonstrating the bug:




As far as the GT-R goes, I've only experienced this when racing at 650 Daytona. Most tracks don't allow you to use the driving style and set-up necessary to exploit this particular bug. The settings are very strict when it comes to demonstrating this bug, so here is the set-up I used to achieve this. You must have a certain driving style to reek any benefits of the bug though. You will want to late apex and try and initiate a slight four wheel drift on the way out to get the wheels to slip, as this is what causes the car to accelerate as if it were kicked in the azz. When the wheels are in a state of lost traction you will want to shift a bit early as this helps to maximize the bug affect. I will post a video shortly, demonstrating how this bug works 👍

Power: +11
Weight: 85

tyre: s2/s2

-15/-11
3/10
3/7
-.25/+.17
1.7/2.8
5/9
45/55

max steering angle: 50

3.354
2.018
1.616
1.370
1.029
.782

final: 4.131