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US deficit crisis: the clock ticks
- Thread starter Mike Rotch
- 250 comments
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- 38,956
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
Crisis hasn't been averted because they haven't cut any spending.
Plenty were cursing the Bush regime and getting behind Ron Paul back in those days. The difference between the explosion of Tea Party popularity is that the media stopped its blackout once John McCain was nominated. Then they adopted similar ideas, but run through the corporate media filter and twisted to rile up stay-at-home moms and git-r-doners across the country.
Moreover, your comments don't even reflect the dynamic of the Republican party right now. Did you not notice the huge divide? Even the guy that's President had the same ideas before he turned his back on everything he ran for. http://www.humblelibertarian.com/2011/08/bush-20-100-ways-barack-obama-is-just.html
- 1,466
- Canada
- mikethehockeyfan
To be honest, the day the appointments for Obama's staff started coming in after the 2008 election I knew we wouldn't be getting any substantive change.
You put former or future lobbyists in government positions and they will fiercely protect the status quo for their tiny segment of the economy.
Not to say I blame lobbyists for everything wrong with America currently. That burden is shared 3 ways between people working in marketing, lobbyists, and banks/bankers. :up:
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
I have this video favorited just because these ridiculous comments come up every month or so and I have to remind people the first Tea Party rally was a Ron Paul rally in 2007. These same people opposed the bank bailouts that were given to us by Bush, opposed the TSA's violation of 4th Amendment rights, opposed the Patriot Act, and called for a balanced budget all before Obama even had a party nomination.
The day I realized we were getting Obama or McCain and they both promised change I knew it was just going to be the same old crap.
And is there anyone here that is honestly surprised they found a compromise that does nothing to actually solve any problems?
Danoff
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Lobbyists are a symptom, not an illness. Lobbyists are a symptom of big government. Think of them as the flies landing on piles of excrement. The problem is not the flies. Wherever you have a pile of big government, you will have flies. If you want the big government, you need to put up with the flies.
The real blame for the mess we are in right now lies with the supreme court.They are the check and balance against most of the things that are wrong today (including the TSA). They have been letting far to much through.
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- MP-Omnis
The US has defaulted many times in the past. The "crisis" is just something manufactured as an excuse to spend yet more money.
Danoff
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I think that sounded slightly more cynical than you intended. There were politicians trying to stop the debt limit from increasing, those politicians were trying to shrink government. There were other politicians who were willing to raise the debt limit in exchange for concessions. Those politicians were trying to shrink specific parts of government. And then there were those who cried "crisis" in the name of spending more money.
So I agree with you, it's just that your statement came off as more of a conspiracy.
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- mikethehockeyfan
You must have LOVED that Citizens United decision
I don't mind big government, but the U.S. does a pretty s**t job with it. If there were some kind of significant campaign finance reform passed in the States, maybe the country could get its house in order a bit, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Serving the government is all about money and power and positioning yourself for a private sector job after you're done in public service.
I agree with you, though, the 3-branch equality of the U.S. Government has been out of whack for a while now (thanks a lot, Dick Cheney and Alberto Gonzalez). The problem is that when the executive branch decides it is going to have more power and set a precedent for something, those powers rarely recede from a previous administration to the next.
I'm well aware of the roots of the movement, but by the time Obama took office it had been overrun by more unsavoury, bitter individuals and corporate interests ($$$). The Tea Party during that long hot summer of healthcare hyperbole was long gone from its roots.
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Danoff
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You must have LOVED that Citizens United decision
Actually yea. Congress did something stupid, the supreme court upheld the constitution. That's what I want to see.
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- MP-Omnis
Oh, no I'm not conspiratory at all. I was just using a historical perspective for all the people that fit your third group there. The people using the debt limit vote for concessions, on the other hand, are out of touch, I think. They have noble intentions but I don't think you can just tame the monster like that.
- 24,553
- Frankfort, KY
- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
When Obama took office it was still a mostly Ron Paul supporting group.
It was the stimulus debate that led to its first being co-opted. Mainstream Republicans wanted to have an organized front with which to fight stimulus and found a small-government group formed by the Ron Paul supporters already speaking out against stimulus. Then it was made larger by the healthcare debate.
The point for me is that anyone who suggests that the Tea Party is just a Republican front and/or motivated by racism because they didn't exist before Obama's presidency is misrepresenting facts. Sure it is different in many areas today, but when it comes to discussing reducing the debt and shrinking government, those are issues that they talked about before Obama was even known to be a nominee. Attempting to downplay economic debate by a group as racially motivated is the lowest of lows.
- 2,323
- United States
Now that a deal has been reached to increase the debt ceiling (read: Now we can print and spend 2.5 trillion more and bill the taxpayers), govt. spending will continue out of control. The US is insolvent, and future Quantitative Easing (read: money-printing) is going to send the price of Krugerrand gold coins through the roof.
- 1,662
- Tennessee,USA
- StarFirebird
- starfirebird
There was a guy at work telling me that stocks are dropping everywhere.Is this true?
I don't have cable/satellite/antennae so i have no idea what is going on in the world.I guess that would be a good thing.
I don't have cable/satellite/antennae so i have no idea what is going on in the world.I guess that would be a good thing.
- 24,553
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- GTP_FoolKiller
- FoolKiller1979
The 14th largest drop in history. Over 500 points in a day.
- 1,662
- Tennessee,USA
- StarFirebird
- starfirebird
Dang, that's pretty significant.
Keef
Premium
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- GTP Keef
Not really. It's still a long way from 0. Economically speaking, a lot worse could happen than 500 points in a day.
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- hambone8611
Keef
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- GTP Keef
I am confident that it will right itself one of these days - how that happens is up in the air, but it will happen.
- 1,662
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- StarFirebird
- starfirebird
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Stocks are dropping everywhere. While the tiger economies and China are going strong on the domestic front, a lot of the world needs a strong US consumer market for growth.
What the government has done has basically devalued the dollar, and that's hurting everyone.
We really need to start indexing currencies against the Yuan instead of the dollar.
What the government has done has basically devalued the dollar, and that's hurting everyone.
We really need to start indexing currencies against the Yuan instead of the dollar.
- 7,666
There are also those of us recent college graduates that kind of need a strong economy now so we can get our careers going though. True, engineers are always in demand. But if the economy tanks, finding work is going to get a lot more difficult for me.
I feel like the US dollar would get hit pretty hard if we started indexing currencies off something else, or if we started pricing oil in something else though.
Keef
Premium
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- GTP_KeefRacer
- GTP Keef
College graduates? How about those of us who are in college now and will be graduating right as the world loses confidence in the US dollar, our currency goes into hyperinflation, cities, counties, states all go bankrupt, Bill Gates's fortune becomes worthless, China and Russia attack the US because of our role in ruining the world economy, and our empire collapses like the Romans? What about us?
Dapper
(Banned)
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- EERS4YEARS
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- MP-Omnis
This has nothing to do with tea party or republicans. This has everything to do with a government that spends too much money.
In fact, the downgrade is good because it means people will get a bigger yield for their money. Everyone knows the US Gubmint is not AAA. Why would you put money in something that's graded AAA even though you know it should be AA+ where you could be getting a bigger yield.
In fact, the downgrade is good because it means people will get a bigger yield for their money. Everyone knows the US Gubmint is not AAA. Why would you put money in something that's graded AAA even though you know it should be AA+ where you could be getting a bigger yield.
It's a valuable asset. It could be divided into zones where land can be sold off.
The Germans wanted Greece to sell it's many islands in order to pay it's debt. Rather than Germany just pay it off for free.
I'm not sure what happened to that idea, but it sounded reasonable to me.
If a country is going bust it must sell it's assets rather than simply ask for a bail out.
I suppose it's the people doing the bail out that are to blame not the country for asking for one.
I don't know enough about it to know why exactly they are not demanding part of the valuable treasure Greece could offer. Same applies to US.
The Germans wanted Greece to sell it's many islands in order to pay it's debt. Rather than Germany just pay it off for free.
I'm not sure what happened to that idea, but it sounded reasonable to me.
If a country is going bust it must sell it's assets rather than simply ask for a bail out.
I suppose it's the people doing the bail out that are to blame not the country for asking for one.
I don't know enough about it to know why exactly they are not demanding part of the valuable treasure Greece could offer. Same applies to US.
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