US deficit crisis: the clock ticks

[Grand Prix]

Should be a part of Canada anyways. Would make the map of North America look so much neater. I declare manifest destiny on it.

 

[Dapper]

This has nothing to do with tea party or republicans. This has everything to do with a government that spends too much money.

That is your opinion, and the guy who made the decision to give the US a downgraded credit score disagrees.

 

[Keef]

Thanks Tea Party, and republicans in general.

Republicans are demanding spending cuts without tax increases.

Democrats are demanding tax increases be included as part of the package.

So let us analyze this. You already have a stressed economy. Businesses are scared to spend because they have no confidence. Rich people - business owners - are scared to spend because they have no confidence. Middle and lower class people are scared to spend because they have no confidence. Approximately 15% of those people don't have jobs anyway, and are out of money. They don't have jobs because the rich people who own the businesses can't afford to hire them because they're scared to spend money because they have no confidence, as I said earlier.

And now you want to raise taxes on the rich people, the ones who employ everybody else, resulting in even tighter budgets, even less new hiring, and possibly even more layoffs as these over-taxed wealthy employers struggle to keep their businesses alive?

That'll really help fix the economy.

The Republicans are trying to ease the stress on the public so we - the ones who run the economy - can get back to doing what we do best. Employing, producing, selling, buying, trading, saving, etc. The Democrats, on the other hand, are absolutely determined to increase the stress on the most productive members of society, resulting in even less production than we already have. The Democrats are basically seeking to destroy the economy.

Anybody who subscribes to Keynesian economic theory is a complete idiot. Anybody who thinks the Tea Party Republicans are a menace to society is a complete idiot. Anybody who thinks salvation is in the hands of our current crop of Democratic politicians is a complete idiot. Prove me wrong, Dapper.

 

[Tornado]

That is your opinion, and the guy who made the decision to give the US a downgraded credit score disagrees.

I don't see how it is a matter of opinion. This whole thing started because of the huge size of the debt. That is pretty much inarguable. Any waffling on the part of Republicans or Democrats when it comes time to put an Eleventh Hour Band-Aid on the problem is irrelevant because it is still just a Band-Aid.

 

[Dapper]

Anybody who subscribes to Keynesian economic theory is a complete idiot. Anybody who thinks the Tea Party Republicans are a menace to society is a complete idiot. Anybody who thinks salvation is in the hands of our current crop of Democratic politicians is a complete idiot. Prove me wrong, Dapper.

Anyone who isn't a millionaire and supports the Tea Party is not understanding what is really going on.
And since you've proven yourself incapable of taking what I say in context time and time again, I'll help you. My comment was directed at the video I posted, you must keep that in mind. I made no comment about our salvation. The video was about the US credit rating being dropped. The guy who made the decision said why he did so. It is all the Tea Party's fault, for their childish behavior is why the rating was dropped.

And is your statement against the AUP? Seems like calling groups of people, especially the majority of the world, idiots may be something frowned upon.

Businesses are scared to spend because they have no confidence. Rich people - business owners - are scared to spend because they have no confidence.

How many times do you need to see tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans not yield jobs before you get what you're saying is completely wrong?

This whole thing started because of the huge size of the debt.

Yeah, the debt is all republicans fault. Wars and deregulation=debt.

 

[arora]

It has become political though, typical of D.C. I suppose. Standard and Poor's is regulated by the senate banking committee isn't it? while Moody’s Investors Service and Fitch Ratings have not downgraded, so If it means the government will ultimately spend less then I'm glad they did it but I suspect tax increases for sure now 👎

Entitlements are the real issue here and no one has the balls to tackle that.

And Rob, you can go back in your teapot

Yeah, the debt is all republicans fault. Wars and deregulation=debt.

The Revenue Acts of 1861 and 1862 where introduced to fund war, do you mean to say that between 1862 and 1913 (when the 16th amendment was ratified) it was determined we need federal tax to fund all of the ridiculous social programs we do now?

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Yeah, the debt is all republicans fault. Wars and deregulation=debt.

From 2006-2010, democrats have held majorities in both houses which control spending. From 2008-2010, democrats held majorities in both houses AND the presidency.

Failure is an orphan isn't it?

Obamacare does not lower expenses for either the Federal or State governments nor has it lowered expenses for the citizenry. In fact, it's done the opposite.

How many billions upon billions were pissed away with Fannie & Freddy? Lots of people got some big paychecks & bonuses from that...and all were ex-Clinton admin people.

Obama bought GM and handed it over to a special interest (UAW) while disregarding hundreds of years of bankruptcy law. And guess what, GM is doing the same things that got them in hot water anyway.

Who has spent billions upon billions on green energy to only subsidize Chinese and Korean industries? Who went to war in Libya w/o approval? Who hasn't pulled out of Iraq/Afghanistan? Who shut down oil exploration in the Gulf of Mexico and is blocking new permits across the country driving up the costs of gasoline and transportation? Who pissed away billions on a stimulus to only increase unemployment? On who's watch did the credit rating of the US get downgraded? Hmmm????

...not republicans. Certainly not Bush.

But hey, the guy knows how to have a BBQ & is a good interview on late night TV. But lead a country? Forget it...

 

[Dapper]

...not republicans. Certainly not Bush.

He set the regulations that lead to the recession, spent money on 2 wars, and lowered taxes. The debt is his fault. Don't take that as I am an Obama fan.

Don't forget half the stimulus was (republican)tax cuts... and it raised unemployment.

 

[Omnis]

Bush certainly did his share of royally messing things up. President Obama (the complete opposite of Candidate Obama) has done nothing differently since he's taken office, and in fact has accelerated the debt and deficit spending many times over. We're in 5 wars now, by the way.

Don't make it a tea party, democrat vs. republican issue. It's endemic throughout the entire government, and is the result of the centralization of power in DC and the ability to paper-over every problem using the federal reserve.

 

[Keef]

The video was about the US credit rating being dropped. The guy who made the decision said why he did so. It is all the Tea Party's fault, for their childish behavior is why the rating was dropped.

If you haven't noticed, American's national debt is damn near as much as GDP, and with current revenues the government is only able to pay interest on its loans and the most direly important entitlements. The country is everything but bankrupt. America's perfect credit rating has been bogus for many decades. An individual with the same borrowing habits as the United States would have no credit at all. The downgrading of the government's credit rating honestly is a non-issue because it should have happened decades ago - people like myself would never bet on the government to save anybody from anything, so to me all they're good for is low interest student loans, which I intend to pay back of course because I understand the fact that nothing is free.

And is your statement against the AUP? Seems like calling groups of people, especially the majority of the world, idiots may be something frowned upon.

If they weren't idiots I wouldn't be calling them as such. Stating knowingly false information is against the AUP - supporting Keynesian economics seems pretty borderline to me, seeing that it is wrong and all that.

How many times do you need to see tax breaks for the wealthiest Americans not yield jobs before you get what you're saying is completely wrong?

You obviously haven't grasped the tremendous complexity of this economic situation, and the fact that every little detail about everything is intertwined with everything else.

It is a fact that higher tax burdens reduce wealth and productivity. It it also a fact that the Federal Reserve's intentional devaluing of the currency is effectively another tax on everyone who has any vested interest in that currency. It is also a fact that currency devaluation, immense government debt, funny money bailouts, aimless military conflicts half a world away, tightening marketplace regulations, government arrogance and propaganda, and some idiot named Reid who fillibusters his own legislation all contribute to an extreme lack of confidence in the government by the public, rich and poor, and therefore their reluctance to risk their well being on the possibility of overexpansion and ending up in the same place as our government is right now.

Yeah, the debt is all republicans fault. Wars and deregulation=debt.

The current crop of Democrats is in full support of GWB-era economic policy, which includes immense spending, large bailouts, interventionist foreign policy, and invasive and unconstitutional domestic policies. In recent years a very few notable and smart people have stepped up within the Republican party and spoken to the public and their peers about the dangers caused by such policies. The most important figure of them all has been Ron Paul. He has held his libertarian position for decades, and now that the public's unrest has become very noticable, many other Republicans have jumped on the bandwagon. Many of them have admitted that their previous positions were flat out wrong. Some of them have said they were wrong in the past but have changed their position to gather votes, like Mitt Romney. Some of them speak without understanding their own words because they're stupid.

I'll ask you all again - the type of people who want to be in the public spotlight, who want to be in a position over power over the public, who want to be on TV stating their beliefs and trying to convince you to adhere to them, who want to be the leader that everyone listens to and follows, who want to have the power to make the rules that everyone in society must follow...

...is that really the type of person you want to trust with all that power? Hell no! Ron Paul didn't want to be a powerful politician, he wanted to be a doctor. He is a doctor. The only reason he ran for government office is because he recognized the fact that all the rest of them are complete morons.

EDIT: Omnis is completely right about political party being a non-issue. Almost everybody in government is wrong. There are only a few particular people who are correct. You can make what you want out of their political affiliations.

 

[CMvan46]

Bush certainly did his share of royally messing things up. President Obama (the complete opposite of Candidate Obama) has done nothing differently since he's taken office, and in fact has accelerated the debt and deficit spending many times over. We're in 5 wars now, by the way.

Don't make it a tea party, democrat vs. republican issue. It's endemic throughout the entire government, and is the result of the centralization of power in DC and the ability to paper-over every problem using the federal reserve.

As an outside observer on all this I do completely agree with this. No Bush and his administration did absolutely nothing to fix the inevitable but Obama and his administration have only added to it. Amazing because I was really pulling for Obama in the election campaigns because he really did seem like he wanted things to change from the way they were run.

 

[Keef]

As an outside observer on all this I do completely agree with this. No Bush and his administration did absolutely nothing to fix the inevitable but Obama and his administration have only added to it. Amazing because I was really pulling for Obama in the election campaigns because he really did seem like he wanted things to change from the way they were run.

Thank you for seeing the big picture. You wouldn't be interested in becoming a citizen here, eh? We need more people who pay attention to stuff like this.

A lot of people thought Obama was serious about change. I wasn't - it only takes a simple look at his political history to show he and his cronies are a scam. The all-encompassing strike against him is that he hails from Chicago, a city which has been a political joke in American for quite a long time because of widespread corruption, progressive ideas aimed at helping the slum-like south end which have resulted in only more poverty and crime, etc. For all the work Obama and his people have done to "help out", Chicago is home to 3 of the 10 most dangerous neighborhoods in the country.

 

[Pfei]

Repubs and Dems are just puppets on the financial stage. The real fault lies with the bankers and elite power friends who pull the strings in the world. It's all downhill from here. Protect yourselves with gold and some GT5 DLC to help wade through the difficult times ahead.

 

[MikeTheHockeyFan]

And now you want to raise taxes on the rich people, the ones who employ everybody else, resulting in even tighter budgets, even less new hiring, and possibly even more layoffs as these over-taxed wealthy employers struggle to keep their businesses alive?

Yep, they do indeed employ everybody else: 💡

Also it's kind of interesting you are blasting someone for only favouring one kind of economics policy and then going on to write about how supply side economics is the only recourse. That is just as silly as the other polar opposite, such as Keynesian make-busywork-from-nothing schemes.

 

[Joey D]

Actually, right now it looks like the wealthy are doing a fine job of wrecking the market but pulling out investments over what could be constituted as a minor scare. If anything they are creating less job by removing financial support of companies. Without investments, companies can't grow and therefore can't hire anyone, or worse have to lay people off.

This whole thing just pisses me off to no end, we have a bunch of overgrown babies in Washington that don't know their backside from a hole in the ground.

 

[Pupik]

Anybody who subscribes to Keynesian economic theory is a complete idiot. Anybody who thinks the Tea Party Republicans are a menace to society is a complete idiot. Anybody who thinks salvation is in the hands of our current crop of Democratic politicians is a complete idiot. Prove me wrong, Dapper.

Scale it back, Keef...play the ball, not he man.

If not run for office, and put our money where your mouth is.

 

[FoolKiller]

Actually, right now it looks like the wealthy are doing a fine job of wrecking the market but pulling out investments over what could be constituted as a minor scare. If anything they are creating less job by removing financial support of companies. Without investments, companies can't grow and therefore can't hire anyone, or worse have to lay people off.

So, your suggestion is the wealthy risk their investments because it helps prevent layoffs?

Would you buy a car with the lowest possible reliability ratings just to keep some autoworkers from losing their jobs when the line gets shutdown as a failure? Business can't be run as a charity. And for some, investing is a business.

 

[Joey D]

So, your suggestion is the wealthy risk their investments because it helps prevent layoffs?

Would you buy a car with the lowest possible reliability ratings just to keep some autoworkers from losing their jobs when the line gets shutdown as a failure? Business can't be run as a charity. And for some, investing is a business.

I'm not suggesting anything other then people need to stop saying the wealthy create jobs. By pulling money out of the market, they are quenching the growth of all industry. You're free to invest or not invest as you like, but you should not get credit for something when you are doing something that hurts what you are being credited for in the first place.

If the wealthy truly wanted to create jobs, they would be investing their money in something other then gold. Rolling over investments from one industry to another is one thing, yes a certain sector will feel the loss of these investments, but it's not nearly as bad when you just pull out money from everything. Even the headline of CNN read "Sell First, Ask Questions Later".

And while I wouldn't buy a car with the lowest reliability rating (although I have), I would still buy a car. I wouldn't just say screw it, I'm staying home for the next year or so.

 

[Danoff]

If the wealthy truly wanted to create jobs, they would be investing their money in something other then gold.

While most of my money is not in gold, I do have a fair amount of gold at this point, and I think it's a natural response to our government's behavior. I can't blame wealthy individuals for wanting to get the best return on their investment (this is an important component to ensure efficiency in market growth). Right now, our government's actions have driven some of my investments to gold.

If you want rich people to invest their money back into the economy instead of buying gold, you should favor more sound fiscal policy from the government. Threatening to raise taxes on capital gains, income, and a continual strategy of racking up unsustainable debt is a great way to get wealthy people to pull out of their investments and definitely stay away from holding dollars.

The proper capital gains tax rate is 0%. The proper federal deficit is $0. Proper tax rates are as low as possible. This is a recipe for jobs, economic growth, investment, and general prosperity.

 

[FoolKiller]

I'm not suggesting anything other then people need to stop saying the wealthy create jobs. By pulling money out of the market, they are quenching the growth of all industry. You're free to invest or not invest as you like, but you should not get credit for something when you are doing something that hurts what you are being credited for in the first place.

If the wealthy truly wanted to create jobs, they would be investing their money in something other then gold. Rolling over investments from one industry to another is one thing, yes a certain sector will feel the loss of these investments, but it's not nearly as bad when you just pull out money from everything. Even the headline of CNN read "Sell First, Ask Questions Later".

And while I wouldn't buy a car with the lowest reliability rating (although I have), I would still buy a car. I wouldn't just say screw it, I'm staying home for the next year or so.

Gold is safe. The more the government screws up the value of the dollar the better it is to have. It's like buying a classic car that you keep in your garage and show to your friends and rarely ever take out.

And if you don't think the wealthy want to create jobs you don't understand the value of human resources. They want to create jobs because it means that they have a need to produce more of the goods or service they sell. Needing to hire employees means they are making more money. Sure, they might not want to create jobs out of the kindness of their heart (business is not charity) but they want the additional business that requires them to need to create more jobs.

But if you are going to blame the wealthy on everything going on in the market today, you should thank them. Oil is down 7% today. I saw gas was $0.10 cheaper per gallon on my way in to work this morning. Guess where some of that gold money (+4% today) came from. Cheaper oil prices can ease things for everyone as oil prices affect every single product in the world in one way or another.

 

[Joey D]

Gold is safe. The more the government screws up the value of the dollar the better it is to have. It's like buying a classic car that you keep in your garage and show to your friends and rarely ever take out.

And if you don't think the wealthy want to create jobs you don't understand the value of human resources. They want to create jobs because it means that they have a need to produce more of the goods or service they sell. Needing to hire employees means they are making more money. Sure, they might not want to create jobs out of the kindness of their heart (business is not charity) but they want the additional business that requires them to need to create more jobs.

But if you are going to blame the wealthy on everything going on in the market today, you should thank them. Oil is down 7% today. I saw gas was $0.10 cheaper per gallon on my way in to work this morning. Guess where some of that gold money (+4% today) came from. Cheaper oil prices can ease things for everyone as oil prices affect every single product in the world in one way or another.

I know gold is safe, I have some money in gold myself, mostly in Krugerrand's and I'm debating about selling it soon because of the price being so high.

I'm under the impression the wealthy just don't care, they have money and they feel as if they shouldn't be bothered with how their actions affect anyone else. I look at CEO's that take massive bonuses when they already have more money then they know what to do with. It's greed that is choking our US economy in my opinion, and it's the greed of the already wealthy. Sure you are free to do with your money as you please, but the repercussions of doing some things are felt widely through the country.

When the wealthy do create jobs, it's typically in another country because labour is cheaper there. I get that, but they don't seem to grasp the concept that in order to have a market in America, you need people working. I know America isn't the only market in the world, but I believe the world needs America to have a strong market for the sake of everyone's economy.

And great, oil is down, but why? My guess is that the demand is down due to decreased production, because of decreased growth from decreased investments. Also middle class people won't be taking long trips because they won't want to spend what savings they have on a family outting, thus lowering the demand for fuel. So while I can thank the wealthy for lower oil prices, I can't really commend them on their execution to get there.

I am going to continue blaming the wealthy for good chunk of the problems in the United States, and not only because they are ruining things with investments. All the idiots in Washington come from some sort of fiscal security because it takes a lot of money to make it through campaigns. So in my eyes we have rich idiots running the country into the ground which is scarring other rich idiots into selling off the investments leaving the middle class and lower class idiots high and dry...again.

My pessimism for the country grows every day, I just have to ask myself, how in God's name did we let it get this bad? The Founding Fathers are probably spinning in their graves.

 

[Dapper]

I'm not suggesting anything other then people need to stop saying the wealthy create jobs.

Right. No one needs to be rich to be a boss. CEO's make over $300 to every $1 their employees make, 8x more than 30-40 years ago. Empirical evidence Republican ideology is wrong.

...It's greed that is choking our US economy in my opinion, and it's the greed of the already wealthy...

In other words, capitalism is the problem. Money hoarding, amoral capitalist make me sick!

http://www.aflcio.org/corporatewatch/paywatch/ceopay.cfm
http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

 

[FoolKiller]

I know gold is safe, I have some money in gold myself, mostly in Krugerrand's and I'm debating about selling it soon because of the price being so high.

I'm under the impression the wealthy just don't care, they have money and they feel as if they shouldn't be bothered with how their actions affect anyone else. I look at CEO's that take massive bonuses when they already have more money then they know what to do with. It's greed that is choking our US economy in my opinion, and it's the greed of the already wealthy. Sure you are free to do with your money as you please, but the repercussions of doing some things are felt widely through the country.

When the wealthy do create jobs, it's typically in another country because labour is cheaper there. I get that, but they don't seem to grasp the concept that in order to have a market in America, you need people working. I know America isn't the only market in the world, but I believe the world needs America to have a strong market for the sake of everyone's economy.

And great, oil is down, but why? My guess is that the demand is down due to decreased production, because of decreased growth from decreased investments. Also middle class people won't be taking long trips because they won't want to spend what savings they have on a family outting, thus lowering the demand for fuel. So while I can thank the wealthy for lower oil prices, I can't really commend them on their execution to get there.

I am going to continue blaming the wealthy for good chunk of the problems in the United States, and not only because they are ruining things with investments. All the idiots in Washington come from some sort of fiscal security because it takes a lot of money to make it through campaigns. So in my eyes we have rich idiots running the country into the ground which is scarring other rich idiots into selling off the investments leaving the middle class and lower class idiots high and dry...again.

My pessimism for the country grows every day, I just have to ask myself, how in God's name did we let it get this bad? The Founding Fathers are probably spinning in their graves.

Oil is likely down for the same reason it dropped in 2008. It is bought on credit and when the credit market becomes questionable you take what profits you have by selling out to dump the loan and put your profits somewhere safe.

And I have to wonder, did you read the jobs report from last week?

You seem to want to always blame the wealthy, but did you ever think that lower and middle class could have a hand in it too? You think all those labor union workers have no hand in what happened to the automotive industry? Or what about all the Palin wing of the Tea Party that wants cuts in spending, but not to their medicare and social security? Or what about the people that vote for the politicians who screw us over? Do they have no responsibility?


I won't say that business leaders don't end up making greedy decisions that hurt the company they are supposed to run, but that is just the rich man's version of asking for more welfare. Rich or poor, they are all greedy. No one is different. You can blame only one group all you want, but all you do is help create a bigger divide in class warfare. Reactions like yours are what politicians want so they can make more of their own greedy decisions.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

I'm under the impression the wealthy just don't care, they have money and they feel as if they shouldn't be bothered with how their actions affect anyone else. I look at CEO's that take massive bonuses when they already have more money then they know what to do with. It's greed that is choking our US economy in my opinion, and it's the greed of the already wealthy. Sure you are free to do with your money as you please, but the repercussions of doing some things are felt widely through the country.

The wealthy do care...about their own wealth and acquiring more. That means good things as they cannot do it alone. If a wealthy person wants a new mansion; they need materials, appliances, furniture, and personnel to construct and organize everything. This is how you "spread the wealth" the proper way. If their empire were to expand, more personnel would be needed and more wealth is created...even for the little guy.

Society works best when people can pursue their own interests...that includes getting rich.

When the wealthy do create jobs, it's typically in another country because labour is cheaper there.

That's nowhere near the truth. It's a lie that has been repeated over and over and the general populace start to believe it. The total cost of doing business in America, especially certain states, is astronomical. From licensing fees, zoning requirements, EPA regulations, payroll tax, heath insurance, you name it...it all adds up.

Either the company goes bankrupt, leaving more people out of jobs & investors (pensions/401k) out of $$$, or they survive by going over whatever border. There's a lot more people with a stake in a company than you think.

I get that, but they don't seem to grasp the concept that in order to have a market in America, you need people working. I know America isn't the only market in the world, but I believe the world needs America to have a strong market for the sake of everyone's economy.

Absolutely true. However punishing winners & losers through taxation isn't a way forward towards a strong marketplace. Nor is market manipulation as seen in the real estate bust. Taxation just takes more $$$ out of the market.

And great, oil is down, but why? My guess is that the demand is down due to decreased production, because of decreased growth from decreased investments. Also middle class people won't be taking long trips because they won't want to spend what savings they have on a family outting, thus lowering the demand for fuel. So while I can thank the wealthy for lower oil prices, I can't really commend them on their execution to get there.

Commodity prices are not priced by what it available today, it's priced by what might be available tomorrow. Wealthy people do not enter into futures contracts that can skew the price. Large corporations, such as Southwest Airlines, can and do affect the price of oil as they use it as a hedge against increase fuel prices. It's one of several reasons why their flights are cheap and they're not filing Ch.13.

I am going to continue blaming the wealthy for good chunk of the problems in the United States, and not only because they are ruining things with investments.

It's always someone else's fault now isn't it? Forget the class warfare boogieman man crap; how has government made any of this better? It hasn't...it's just made things worse.

All the idiots in Washington come from some sort of fiscal security because it takes a lot of money to make it through campaigns. So in my eyes we have rich idiots running the country into the ground which is scarring other rich idiots into selling off the investments leaving the middle class and lower class idiots high and dry...again.

Rich idiots = program trading selling off securities. Those are not people on the floor of a stock exchange, those are computers tucked away in basements of financial institutions...such as mutual funds, pension funds, and insurance companies. Know how many millions of people have investments in those 3 things? My guess is that the majority of those people are nowhere near being "rich" yet whatever little wealth they have left is being eroded.

Speculators didn't do any of this...Obama's Admin did.

My pessimism for the country grows every day, I just have to ask myself, how in God's name did we let it get this bad? The Founding Fathers are probably spinning in their graves.

How the hell did 52% of the voting population think a Democrat from Chicago, a man who has never held a real job or operated a cash register, would be the best for this country? John McCain is another disaster and as much as it pains me to say it...Hillary would have been the best president out of the lot. (Democrat from Chicago's suburbs)

Think back to 2009/10 and recall all the billions and billions that were pissed away. It seemed like Obama was spending $20billion weekly on new crap while increasing the budgets & size of his favorite bureaucracies and increasing the membership & power of public sector unions. Buying votes with someone else's money...

The markets have been tanking. Obama read off a teleprompter and said nothing, gave no plan, spoke of no specifics. What is next on his agenda? He's going to 2 fundraisers (no cameras allowed) to speak to and beg for $$$ from millionaires and billionaires. So guess where his priorities are...

 

[Joey D]

And I have to wonder, did you read the jobs report from last week?

You mean a whopping 117,000 jobs and still 9.1% unemployment? Ya I read that. 117,000 jobs only dropped the unemployment rate 0.1%. You still have at least 6 million people unemployed for 27+ weeks, 1 million discouraged workers, 1 million with reduced employment and at least 8 million on part time because of an economic down turn.

I'm looking for a glimmering ray of hope there but I can't find it. 31,000 of the 117,000 jobs were created in healthcare, more specifically in the clinical healthcare sector. Clinical healthcare jobs typically are contingent, so it very well could be that those people hired could be out of a job by Xmas. 26,000 of the jobs were retail, so people making minimum wage more or less. 24,000 manufacturing jobs is a little more promising since they come with decent pay and benefits as does the 9,000 mining jobs.

You seem to want to always blame the wealthy, but did you ever think that lower and middle class could have a hand in it too? You think all those labor union workers have no hand in what happened to the automotive industry? Or what about all the Palin wing of the Tea Party that wants cuts in spending, but not to their medicare and social security? Or what about the people that vote for the politicians who screw us over? Do they have no responsibility?

The lower and middle class do play a role in it, but their affect is less pronounced on the economy I believe. They don't have large sums of money to completely change how things are ran. I'm very middle class and I have some investments, but not enough to make or break any company. I have money saved up, but not enough to to really make any major change by either starting a new business, giving capital to someone looking to start a business or even running for office.

While I agree the UAW played a part in the downfall of the automotive industry, I don't think they are the sole reason or even the main reason. The line worker at GM saw how much Bob Lutz, Rick Wagoner, and the rest of the brass we making, then they saw how much engineers were getting paid, and they asked themselves, shouldn't we get more money too? I think engineers in the automotive industry are some of the most overpaid people, a buddy of mine works for Chrysler and makes $90k per year designing fuel gauges (or essentially updating Fiat's). That's ridiculous, and even my buddy agrees, but he's not going to say anything.

I find the Palinites and Tea Partier's to be massively short sighted, they basically want all government programmes they don't use to be cut. Actually I view most Republicans like this. However, I think the Tea Party's acceptance is losing ground with the average American.

As for voting in politicians that screw us over, how can you stop it? Everyone, no matter what political party, that runs for office will screw over the population is some way. I know there is a lot of support for Ron Paul on GTP, but based on what I've read about him, I feel like his policies would basically screw over the lower class.

So yes, the lower and middle class have responsibility, but their actions have far less weight on the country then the wealthy.

I won't say that business leaders don't end up making greedy decisions that hurt the company they are supposed to run, but that is just the rich man's version of asking for more welfare. Rich or poor, they are all greedy. No one is different. You can blame only one group all you want, but all you do is help create a bigger divide in class warfare. Reactions like yours are what politicians want so they can make more of their own greedy decisions.

Class warfare exists because of a percentage of wealthy people simply not giving a 🤬 about the plebs beneath them (note I said a certain percent, not all), in my opinion. They will do whatever it takes to make more money without thinking about the long term consequences.

The wealthy do care...about their own wealth and acquiring more. That means good things as they cannot do it alone. If a wealthy person wants a new mansion; they need materials, appliances, furniture, and personnel to construct and organize everything. This is how you "spread the wealth" the proper way. If their empire were to expand, more personnel would be needed and more wealth is created...even for the little guy.

Right, but what's the likelihood those materials and furniture will have been produced in America? Essentially all the wealthy are doing is redistributing their wealth outside the country. And personal to build the place? I don't know about where you live, but here in Michigan you can almost be guarantee to have a crew full of illegal immigrants from Mexico, who will send as much as they can back south of the boarder, down Mexico way, where they may or may not have fell in love.

Absolutely true. However punishing winners & losers through taxation isn't a way forward towards a strong marketplace. Nor is market manipulation as seen in the real estate bust. Taxation just takes more $$$ out of the market.

If the government reinvests that money into the country through building projects, society improvements and whatever else, then there wouldn't be an issue. The problems lies with politicians and government employees in general spending to much on personal wages, expense accounts and other useless things. I'm not sure what America invests all their tax dollars, but whatever it is, it's not the country.

 

[bass264]

This should fix our economic problems: (/sarcasm. Some people of a certain political party say that the government should do everything!!!)

 

[Danoff]

Class warfare exists because of a percentage of wealthy people simply not giving a 🤬 about the plebs beneath them (note I said a certain percent, not all), in my opinion.

Class warfare exists because of envy. That's about it. More charity from the rich than they already provide wouldn't change that.

Government enabled class warfare exists because the constitution has been ignored.

If the government reinvests that money into the country through building projects, society improvements and whatever else, then there wouldn't be an issue.

There would still be a huge economic inefficiency issue. That money would be largely wasted.

 

[Keef]

Scale it back, Keef...play the ball, not he man.

If not run for office, and put our money where your mouth is.

Lately I've been sensing this air of neo-conservatism wafting down onto me. They put something in the water here in the Midwest, I'm telling you. I need to take a break from politics.

 

[Dapper]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/a_timeline_of_events031362.php

Republicans will be the end of America.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_08/a_timeline_of_events031362.php

Republicans will be the end of America.

Who gives a damn about the deficit? It's really a bogus number as the accounting used to come to whatever number is skewed b/c offshore assets are not taken into account.

Now spending & the welfare state...take a guess which party has almost a complete monopoly of that?

The problem isn't the deficit, the problem is how much $$$ the US Gov't have promised in the way of welfare into the future. The world knows the US has cash today...tomorrow is a different story.

Socialism never ends well, history tells us this.