US Diesel News: Acura TSX to go Diesel

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From now on, I'm planning on throwing a lot of the diesel news in here. So if you guys have stories to share about the oncoming diesel explosion in the US, feel free to post.

Here we go!

Automotive News DETROIT - General Motors plans to put diesel engines in Cadillac and Saturn cars in the United States by 2010.
GM confirmed it will use the fuel-saving diesel engine on U.S. passenger cars, crossovers and light-duty trucks during a video blog by Vice Chairman Bob Lutz on GM's Web site, http://fastlane.gmblogs.com

GM sources say the automaker will show a diesel engine at the Frankfurt auto show in September on an e-flex Opel Vectra. In GM's e-flex powertrain, a traditional engine such as a diesel or gasoline engine, recharges a battery pack that provides power for an electric motor.

GM will show the same variant at the Detroit auto show in January on a Saturn, most likely the Aura sedan. GM showed off the e-flex system on the Chevrolet Volt concept car at the Detroit auto show this year.

"It'll end up in a Cadillac, and there will be a front-wheel-drive version of the engine in 2009 or 2010 calendar year," says a source familiar with the program. "It's an Epsilon (mid-sized car) based product."

The source said the diesel will go in the Vectra in 2008 and will come to the United States as a Saturn for the next generation Aura if all goes as planned.

Lutz cautioned that the diesel engine is not a panacea for upcoming stiffer corporate average fuel economy standards.

Says Lutz: "There's a lot of hype on diesels right now. It's not going to be a 50-state solution. It's going to be minus California and minus what other states adopt California standards."

But he said GM is charging ahead with diesels and that it will be one way GM will boost fuel economy: "We're doing a bunch of them right now. We will be introducing diesel passenger cars in the U.S. We are going to have a V-6 diesel engine for passenger cars, crossovers and light trucks."

A spokesman for GM confirms what Lutz said in his video blog, saying that diesels are in GM's European products because European regulations are more receptive to diesels.

"Getting those engines to be compliant in the U.S. is a matter of cost and emissions compliance," says Chris Preuss, GM spokesman. "How we can market those in the U.S. is still a question, but we still see diesel having some limited role in the U.S. in the next couple of years."

GM has at least two diesel engines under development. A 4.5-liter V-8 is due in 2010 for light-duty pickups and SUVs. The other engine is a 2.9-liter V-6 being developed with Italy's VM Motori S.p.A.. The V-6 will be launched in Europe in the 2009 Cadillac CTS, which will later appear in the United States.

And for Honda?

Autoblog
When diesels first hit the American market after the gas shocks of the 70's, they were unreliable, smelly, loud, and rough. They did get better gas mileage than comparably-sized gasoline engines, but in the eyes of the American public, the negatives of diesel tech far outweighed its positives. Diesel engines have gotten far better in the past 25 years, with Europeans buying more oil-burners than petrol engines. $3.00 per gallon gas (or worse) is helping to usher in a second renaissance for the diesel, and Honda is going all-in with a 3.5L dieselV6 for the US market.

Honda's forthcoming engine, which should be arriving around 2010, should achieve 30% better fuel economy (or more) than a comparably-sized gas engine, which should alleviate some of our pain at the pump. Honda plans on installing this V6 diesel delight on larger vehicles like the Odyssey minivan, the Ridgeline, and the Pilot. We think the new V6 will go along nicely with the planned four-banger in the Accord, and it will certainly help the folks from Tokyo compete with the many diesels the competition has planned for the near future.

Good news all at once, its all very good. With diesel prices hovering around $2.50 (compared to nearly $3.50 for petrol) here in Grand Rapids, a diesel car continues to be a very attractive alternative. If GM can push diesel Auras, it will be a big win against the Hybrid game, and the very same thing can be said for Honda, who is banking on a four-pot diesel to replace the former Hybrid car.

We'll see what happens further on down the road, but this is the start of something good. Volkswagen is building as many diesel cars as they possibly can at the moment to get ready for their re-introduction into the US market later this year, and I'm sure they'll sell every single one.

I'm looking forward to the next few years when it comes to diesel power...
 
Well, come to think of it, I wonder if General Electric's going to be working with any carmakers. Their Evolution locomotives are among the cleanest there are.

and, I'd LOVE to see Caterpillar's ACERT tech in a pickup.

but on the matter of cars, this new development of Honda's V6 Diesel, possibly going into the Ridgeline, that at least makes that particular vehicle more of a pickup. Diesel minitrucks, too, I don't think those have been around since VW had that Rabbit-based thing. I'd love to see a midsize that tows like a gas fullsize. and not just a Dakota V8, either.
 
I know GM is working on their diesels independently, but I get your point. Maybe they could convince Ford to get into diesels in North America by offering their help...

...Which brings me to my point: Chrysler is still going to get their diesel engines from DaimlerBenz, and GM is doing theirs indie-style. If diesel takes off like so many people assume it will, Ford will be left out in the cold if they don't at least offer one car and one truck. Big mistake in my book.

I mean, how hard could it be to tweak their engines to US standards? I thought Europe was moving to Tier II standards as well?
 
No V6 diesel for the Accord? and aren't TDIs already on the road in the US? I know there's a ton of them (or what seems like a ton) running around here in Ontario.
 
:lol:
I love how "petrol" was used in the first post. :lol:

In any case, I must admit that I like the Vectra (or atleast what I've seen so far).

As for Honda... :lol:
They could take a crap in a box and mark it garunteed and people would love it! ;)
Diesel or unleaded, slow or fast, nothing they do ever earns negative comments from most on this board and I doubt the introduction of desiel will change that (although I'm not to excited about the idea of a Honda desiel).

None the less, I must admit that a Desiel Civic would be great. 👍
(too bad the desiel Civic isn't part of their plan!)
 
Hey! I say lots of bad things about the Civic! I hate the new Civic's suspension, seats, terrible view angles (stupid windows!) and dashboard! It's ugh! Agh! Horrible!

But man, that creamy little 1.8... it's a wonder of mass market technology... :D

About time Honda jumped on the bandwagon. There are rumors of the diesel Honda Fit going around, but nothing definite.

Imagine, CRDi, VGT (variable geometry turbines) and VTEC. It'd be lovely. It'd also probably be impossible to fit all those badges on the back of the car!

Hyundai's current V6 diesel in the Veracruz is creaaaaamy. I can't wait for an extended test. Too bad our budget only extends to the Santa Fe 2.2... but hey, my wallet won't be complaining.
 
and aren't TDIs already on the road in the US? I know there's a ton of them (or what seems like a ton) running around here in Ontario.

There are TDI models on the road, but Volkswagen has not been able to sell new models since 2006 due to the new Tier II standards. Thusly, Volkswagen has had to wait until the 2008 model year to get back on track, and they will be debuting a new 2.0L (the previous was 1.9L) diesel I4 with 140 BHP and nearly 250 lb-ft of torque. Early reports on fuel mileage are saying that the diesel Jetta will be able to produce highway figures at, or close to 60 MPG. City figures are varied, but most have been shooting for 40+ MPG in the city. So yes, that is taking the Toyota Prius to the cleaners, not to mention for less money to start, and less money to throw in the tank as well.

The big question is whether or not VW will do a diesel Rabbit, as the current plans keep it as a 2.5L I5 model only. Adding a diesel however would likely make it the cheapest, most fuel-efficient car sold in North America, but thats only if they do it...

I'm still crossing my fingers for a diesel Astra or Cobalt here in the US, but that probably won't happen until the end of the decade. And that really sucks...
 
This is good news for us diesel fans!

LLN.com
Despite increases in the price of gas in the last few months, it appears that fewer and fewer consumers are putting vehicles with hybrid powertrains on their shopping list. According to industry experts J.D. Power, consumers with interested in hybrids dropped from 57 percent in 2006 to 50 percent for the early summer months in '07, a significant figure for such a short period of time..

The study, which was conducted during May and June '06 and again in the same period of '07, found that, despite gas still hovering around $3.00 U.S. per gallon, consumer interest in hybrids has dropped.

The study did find that more and more consumers are putting diesel cars on their lists, however. In '06, just 12 percent of buyers were looking at diesels; now, nearly twice as many, 23 percent, have diesels on their shopping lists. Interestingly, the number of diesel cars on the new car market has dropped since then. The Volkswagen Jetta TDI, one of the biggest volume diesel cars in the U.S., didn't meet 2007 regulations. Volkswagen will be introducing a 50-state diesel car shortly. Jeep offered a diesel Liberty in '06; it didn't meet the '07 regulations, but a diesel Grand Cherokee with a Mercedes-Benz-developed engine was released in Spring '07.

Quite frankly, it is a "deerrrrr" situation unlike anything I've seen. The cost-benefit ratio comparison between a Hybrid and a Diesel is a joke, and quite frankly, its about time people figured it out. I can't recall the figures I had researched for my brother's project, but the general lay of the land was that you pay less (percentage increase) for a diesel product and thereby take advantage of the lower prices of fuel and greater fuel efficency long before a more-expensive Hybird.

If I recall correctly, they started a wait-list for the '08 Jetta TDI at my VW dealer a year ago, and it filled up quick. This was back when diesel fuel, on average, cost more than petrol. Nowadays? They're going to have a helluva time keeping them on the lot...
 
Hurr... about time.

But just wait until they release diesel hybrids... :lol: ...only issue is how smoothly you can get the diesel engine to start and stop in traffic.
 
Hurr... about time.

But just wait until they release diesel hybrids... :lol: ...only issue is how smoothly you can get the diesel engine to start and stop in traffic.
That problem has already been solved. VW Blue-motion cars have stop-start diesel engines, so does BMW's Mini Cooper D, plus several diesel powered 3- and 5-series as well.

Diesel-hybrids, and diesel-electric as well (the Volvo C30 will be shown this Autumn, but best example would be the Chevy Volt), are not far away. Peugeot is doing it by putting in electric motors for the rear wheels, instead of going the complicated and (I believe) relatively inefficient way the Prius does it.
 
Personally, I'd rather avoid the whole diesel-hybrid question all together by just building more efficient hybrids in the first place. This being said of course, GM North America has already said that several of the diesel models planned will likely take full-use of the E-Flex system, similar to the "basic" single-mode hybrid systems already made available on the Saturn Aura and VUE, as well as the upcoming Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid.

The attractive thing about diesel is that you get, in many cases, similar fuel economy to a hybrid at a lower entry cost, furthermore a very small increase over the cars that they are based upon.

Either way, once the VW models hit our shores in just a short time, my guess is that they (GM, Ford, Chrysler, Honda, Toyota, BMW, etc) will be taking measure of the sales to decide what exactly they want to do themselves. Granted, the TDI models have always sold well in the US, this is the first time they've had a significant demand for diesels, and furthermore people pushing to have more diesel models available ASAP.

...Which leads me to my last point: Why is VW dragging their feet over whether or not they want to bring the Golf/Rabbit TDI and Passat TDI to the US?

They won't have a problem selling them anymore, and I'd be willing to bet that if the others would join in by making a diesel model available on their compact and family sedans, they will sell all of those as well.
 
The big question is whether or not VW will do a diesel Rabbit, as the current plans keep it as a 2.5L I5 model only. Adding a diesel however would likely make it the cheapest, most fuel-efficient car sold in North America, but thats only if they do it...
Really? When I bought my car my dealer said he expected TDI Rabbits for 2008, but that was back in October, so it may have changed.


Or it could be that this was the same guy who, as he handed me the keys at the end, said that it looks a lot like the GTI from the back. When I mentioned it was because the last GTI was already a Mk V and the Rabbit was really a Golf Mk V he just said, "Oh yeah." So, he may just be an idiot.
 
A lot of the VW dealers, at least from what I can tell, either know a lot or nothing at all. The guys at Betten usually have a good grasp on what is selling well and can usually enlighten me as to when the production models are going to show up, but they aren't always right. The Gezon guys are usually good at getting the niche models in stock, but they have absolutely no line on what is coming out, and what isn't... They probably still think the Microbus is coming down the line...

Last I had heard, VW was uncertain of what they wanted to do with the Rabbit when it comes to diesel power. This is the latest thing I can find:

Autoblog
When an automaker introduces any kind of expensive technology, one of the first things it does is to try to distribute the cost of production of said tech across its lineup. For Volkswagen, that could include stuffing their new diesel mill into the vehicle-formerly-known-as-the-Golf, the Rabbit. Great news for fuel misers and penny pinchers alike.

The turbocharged two-liter diesel will find its way into the new Jetta TDI come next spring, with sales expected to be between 15,000 and 20,000 units annually.

Although nothing has been firmed up yet, Norbert Krause, VW of America's director of engineering and environment, is well aware of the demand, noting that 40-percent of Jettas sold in 2006 were diesel-equipped. And considering that the crossover segment is expanding rapidly, a diesel-powered Tiguan, like the one shown at the 2007 LA Auto Show, is assured when it goes on sale in mid-2008.

...So, maybe?
 
While I prefer diesels over hybrids, Oregon is one of those far-left states that will adopt California emissions. 👎
 
In an ideal situation, I'd have my SVX for weekends and nice romps through the country sides, and a small diezie of some kind for all the daily dilly dallying. As far as I'm concerned it's the way of the future.
 
Diesels are only "almost" hybrid level in city driving. On the highway, it's a different story.

The Hyundai Santa Fe is rated at just under 40 mpg for the highway, but I've heard tales of between 50-70 mpg on long highway trips.

Still, diesel hybrids would be nice. I'm still waiting for small turbocharged gasoline plants to become popular again... I'm still of the opinion that if all the money spent to develop hybrids and the new diesels were spent on gasoline plants, we could all be driving 1 liter gasoline engines that get 50 mpg and produce 150-200 hp in a compact car.
 
Last I had heard, VW was uncertain of what they wanted to do with the Rabbit when it comes to diesel power. This is the latest thing I can find:



...So, maybe?
Ugh, I hate the name Tiguan.


Anyway, if they do a TDI Rabbit I will check it out in order to consider a trade. Since I do more than 90% interstate driving I imagine the cost savings would pay for the car.
 
A small tidbit, but certainly a WIN for the US diesel crowd:

Autoblog
tsx_exterior_1280_15_450-op.jpg

We've already been introduced to Honda's new i-DTEC clean diesel and, as expected, it will be finding its way into the next generation TSX sometime in 2009. The inclusion of the 2.2-liter diesel will follow the redesign of Acura's entry-level sedan sometime this spring, with the i-DTEC-equipped model initially debuting in Europe (in the Euro Accord) and eventually finding its way into the RDX crossover later next year. A V6 diesel is also expected to arrive sometime in 2010.

Huzzah! A diesel car with driving character! Yes, the BMW 335D is coming too, but this should be a little cheaper...
 
Ya know, "Honda" isn't the first name that comes to mind when "Diesel" comes up in the conversation (Usually, it's M-B and Audi, Perhaps the Big Truck diesels...oh, and that Yellow company,) But it's nice to know that that's the route Honda's decided to take.
 
It's probably Honda's current European 2.2 CTDi (also in the Civic)... if they start bringing it in for the Civic, it could be a winner... probably starting with the TSX to test the waters... I think the engine might be on the expensive side for stateside compacts.
 
They're stuffing it in the American Accord for 2009, but thus far, there haven't been any plans to stick it in the Civic. Fuel mileage wise, the benefit is minimal when compared to the current four-pot petrol cars...
 
-> I love that diesels are making a huge comeback, And I also ask some VeeDub peeps if there are any plans for a Diesel Rabbit, they said no. :(

-> Plus Winding Road got a hand of the only diesel Euro-Civic in North America:

Winding Road
When our friends at Honeywell offered us a European-spec Honda Civic with a 2.2-liter turbo-diesel for our test fleet, we jumped at the opportunity. Most of us love the idea of small diesel engines in passenger cars, and after spending some quality time with said Civic, we’re lighting candles in the hope that cars like this will someday be sold Stateside.

euro_honda_civic.jpg

Jalopnik

Our test vehicle was a base-model five-door hatch with a six-speed manual transmission. This silver Civic was pretty sparse as far as options go, but we didn’t mind at all. We played the “convert-as-you-go” game while driving, as the speedometer is displayed in kilometers per hour and all temperature gauges are in Celsius. Still, we found ourselves fighting over drive time in the Honeywell Civic and were sad to see it depart after a week in our fleet.

What’s most important is how different this car is from any U.S.-spec Civic variant. Most of the Hondas we drive involve high revs for maximum power, so it was a real treat to have usable low-end torque. The turbo-diesel Civic is quoted as producing 251 pound-feet of torque at 2000 rpm, and this was especially appreciated on highway entrance ramps and in passing situations. The amount of torque available in the mid-range on the intermediate gears is astonishing. No other word describes it.

The six-speed manual is an ideal setup for this car—just beware of the 4500-rpm redline. First gear is used for only a short period of time and shifts from first to second aren’t as smooth as we’d like. Pop the shifter into second, though, and the low-end torque propels the foreign-market hatch with a quickness that is seemingly unmatched by any American-market Civic short of the Si. The same is true for the remaining forward gears: highway passing in fifth or sixth requires no additional downshifts.

A noticeable aspect of our diesel Civic was the amount of audible engine noise, especially in the cabin. Managing editor Carrie Roca states, “This is one loud car—not noisy in a bad way, but noisy in a way that you just don’t get in U.S. Hondas.” Many staffers remarked that cold starts in the Civic sound like firing up a diesel pickup.

As for the exterior styling, this European Civic definitely stands out in a market of relatively plain-Jane Hondas. We like the way the rear door handles are integrated into the C-pillar and we found the overall design scheme to be quite futuristic. Honda executives say this Civic is designed to make the competitors look “last-generation,” a statement with which we can agree.

The car’s interior also holds strong to the futuristic exterior design. The wraparound two-tiered IP is straightforward and easy to navigate. Cloth bucket seats up front provide support, but can become somewhat uncomfortable after extended periods of time. The rear bench has a decent amount of usable space.

The Honeywell folks tell us this diesel-equipped Civic will achieve fuel economy figures of 35 miles per gallon in the city and 52 highway. We averaged 41 mpg overall, which is more or less what the company claims for the American-spec Civic Hybrid (40 city/45 highway EPA). The difference is that by most metrics the electric-assisted Civic won’t perform nearly as well as the diesel, and our staff seems to agree that we’d rather have the latter.

Pricing translates to nearly 30,000 American dollars. Keep in mind, though, that European vehicles often carry substantially higher price tags than their American counterparts, so we could easily see a turbo-diesel Civic running in the mid-$20,000 range if sold here, which is roughly the same price as an American Civic Hybrid.

Would we buy this car? Absolutely. Business and fleet manager Kim Ewing says, “I would own this vehicle in a heartbeat and recommend it to anyone looking for this type of driver.” Art director Nate Luzod agrees, “America needs this car. I’d buy one without hesitation.”

There isn’t much wrong with the Euro-market diesel Civic, but our Yankee Civic isn’t something to be frowned upon either. In fact, the Si coupe and sedan are two of our favorite low-cost sporting cars. But if Honda were to bring these European Civics into our economy—especially the diesel models and the sporty Type R—other carmakers could indeed have their work cut out for them.

For the full article and pics, CLICK HERE!

^ I'd take this particular Civic anyday! Its basically the lovely Honda Fit but slightly bigger. I'll ignore the rest of the Civic line up of North America (both coupe and sedan) for this hatch.
:sly:👍

-> Or else I'll get the Jetta TDI wagon. Since Honda never listens, they'll just bring more stupid crossovers. :indiff:
 
Car and Driver had the same Civic, and they seemed to have come to a fairly similar conclusion...

Oh, and the TDI Rabbit?

Probably won't happen this generation, we'll have to wait for the MKVI here in the US. But the Jetta TDI is coming, and they should be offering a Sportwagen version (yes, its spelled that way) by the end of the year. With 140 BHP and over 50 MPG on the highway, that seems like the most logical "green" car out there at a reasonable price...
 
Oh, and the TDI Rabbit?

Probably won't happen this generation, we'll have to wait for the MKVI here in the US.
:(

And I was going to look at a trade-in.

Since the Jetta is pricier than the Rabbit I am not sure the fuel savings would offset the increased car payment.
 
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