VCRC - T#1 - Lotus Elan S1 '62 Championship

[watermelon punch]

Vintage Car Race Club - Lotus Elan S1 '62 Championship
Tournament #1

Congrats Johnnypenso! RESULTS HERE

planning for other vintage cars in same format
no need to commit to every tournament

Schedule:
January 29th - Sunday 9am PST / 12pm noon EST / 5pm GMT / 6pm CET
GTP Calendar

approximately 90 minutes duration for the event
race start time after about 20 minutes free run warm up qualifying
3 races, approx. 10-15 minutes each race with 3-5 minute breaks inbetween

Race 1: Rome - 7 laps
Race 2: Deep Forest - 6 laps
Race 3: Laguna Seca - 5 laps

Points:
1st: 14, 2nd: 12, 3rd: 11, 4th: 10, 5th: 9, 6th: 8, 7th: 7, 8th: 6, 9th: 5, 10th: 4, 11th: 3, 12th: 2

Settings & Restrictions:
modifications forbidden / upgrades prohibited
comfort soft tires
only ABS & driving line allowed
damage off
slipstream weak
penalty weak
grip real
reverse grid order after 1st race
Rules: GTP OLR Rules.

Race will be hosted in my lounge, add PSN: wat3rm370n

Sign-up:
GTP name / PSN name / car colour

= watermelonpunch / wat3rm370n / Butterscotch
= ID_racing / ID_racing / French Blue
= IMZIZ / IMZIZ / British Racing Green
= CC570 / CC570 / Custard
= GTsail290 / GTsail290 / WR Blue Mica
= Johnnypenso / Yuritardid / Orange
= TrackBound7 / GTP_TrackBound7 / Bahama Yellow
= TyrrellRacing / TyrrellRacing / TBD

Join the VCRC if you like vintage cars! Many members interested in racing a variety of vintage cars.

 

[IMZIZ]

Color change for my car, please. My white one is modified. The correct one is British Racing Green.

Yes, I know I could paint it, but that just seems wrong.

 

[ID_racing]

How about an oilchange? Is that allowed? Can´t drive a car without a proper oilchange.

 

[watermelon punch]

Oh yeah, I'm assuming that oil change, engine rebuild, and chassis restoration is not considered tuning or upgrade.
And let's face it, that oil is REALLY dirty when you buy a car from the UCD. LOL

British Racing Green is very appropriate I think!

 

[GTsail]

I think that my Elan has 119,000 miles on it, so it certainly needs both the chassis restoration and the engine rebuild. Maybe even a car wash for that little extra speed!

I hope to take it for a spin tonite, once I finish the last hour of the 9 Hour Tsukuba race that I've been slogging thru.

GTsail

 

[watermelon punch]

Endurance races now savable finally? I may actually try one sometime then!

FYI: Tournament #2 for the next week is the Nissan 240ZG (HS30) '71
(the car is available right now in the OCD)
Tracks now being discussed in the VCRC forum space:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/group.php?do=discuss&group=&discussionid=2483

 

[Johnnypenso]

Oh yeah, I'm assuming that oil change, engine rebuild, and chassis restoration is not considered tuning or upgrade.
And let's face it, that oil is REALLY dirty when you buy a car from the UCD. LOL

British Racing Green is very appropriate I think!

Glad to see you back Punch

Sign me up:tup:. Have to make sure I still have the car and will let you know on colour. You can also put custom wheels on UCD cars now Punch...you've missed out on a lot...lol. Chassis restoration, oil change and rebuild are all ok in "no tune" racing, as is any tire limitation, and using engine limiter. Chassis stiffening, as well as any other modifications from the tuning garage are not allowed. If they are add on parts like turbos and filters and ECU etc. that can be removed, you can just remove them and you'll be allowed into the spec race. However, non-removable upgrades like Engine Tuning or Chassis Stiffening, will permanently disquality that car.

I think if you are going to pick these older cars for Spec racing, it would be a good idea to plan them around the OCD and what's available, like the Datsun 240Z.

 

[espinheira rio]

i am from portugal. what's the time for the race ? in the morning ?

 

[watermelon punch]

i am from portugal. what's the time for the race ? in the morning ?

5:00pm/17:00 UTC/GMT/WET
I believe Portugal is in Western European Time - same as UTC / GMT. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Assuming you have your date/time set correctly in your profile/edit options in the forum, this should give you the right time for you:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=588&day=2012-1-29&c=1

I think if you are going to pick these older cars for Spec racing, it would be a good idea to plan them around the OCD and what's available, like the Datsun 240Z.

Yep, we're doing Nissan 240ZG (HS30) '71 the next week for Tournament #2. Same format, same time, following Sunday... still deciding on the tracks for the races.
And yeah, I keep a close eye on the OCD for vintage cars.
The BMW 2002 is also in there right now!

 

[TrackBound7]

I am very interested in this league. Sounds like a lot of fun, the problem for me is the middle of the day time. I will try to make it to a few events, but it will all depend on the weekend and the family plans.

TrackBound7/GTP_TrackBound7/TBD

 

[watermelon punch]

welcome aboard... come when you can!

 

[BrandonW77]

I would love to participate in these races, I've developed a real fondness for the vintage cars/no tuning recently. But having penalties on is a bit of a deal-breaker. This guy's opening post pretty much sums up my feelings on penalties, the game decides the car behind you is going to crash into you so it ghosts the car so it can drive right through you and make the pass. Or if it doesn't ghost the car and the guy hits me, I get a contact penalty and he drives off scott-free.

I'll stay tuned, if you ever do events with penalties off I'd be all over it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Crap, turns out I have the car but I weight reduced it so I could move some ballast around when I last raced the car a few months ago. Anyone have an extra one they can throw my way? I'll send you something in return, I have lots of cars

Brandon has a point about penalties as well. We've raced in the Capp/Alfa Series for four seasons now with no penalties and it's working well. If someone is cutting a chicane or intentionally ramming people in this type of event you can just eject him from the event but it's highly unlikely. People join these events for fair, clean, organized racing, so penalties just may not be necessary. Something to think about...

 

[watermelon punch]

JohnnyPenso: I'm pretty sure I have a spare unmodified Elan (or at least one without anything undoable done to it) that I can send you. If I don't, I'm betting there's someone else who does. I should be able to gift a car today... though I'm not sure if it goes by "after midnight" or "after 24 hours" on the 1 car gifting per day thing.

RE: Penalty setting

I totally share the dislike of the in-game penalty system big time, as it can be hugely unfair in the way it's implemented. I don't know why you can't turn off that ghosting nonsense, because it causes more problems than it helps anything... and it's the reason why yes, it's possible for the unscrupulous to game the penalty system.


I did put it out for opinion voting, and if more people pipe in now saying "turn it off" I'll consider that.

Also, the discussion for next week's race is happening... if enough people interested in it want penalties off for that or in future, I'm flexible.
The discussion is happening in the VCRC forum. I urge you to put your 2 cents in, & get involved!

My main concern is that everyone feels people are driving fair & whatnot.

It's bizarre what kooky things people do - sometimes without knowing they're doing anything wrong, or realizing that there's something not right about what they've done.
IE: floating up the sand at full speed to re-enter the track in position (or higher) on Laguna Seca... or grass mowing before the concrete on Deep Forest.
Of course there's also Nurb GDP I think that has a place where the game penalty is actually "worth it". LOL So I'm not sayin' the penalty system fixes all that by any means.

Though of course most of us involved in these races I know, are not dirty drivers of course, and rarely overly aggressive, so that's hardly a concern.

But being the host & organizer, as well as possibly the most likely driver to make some fool mistake on the track & deserve a penalty... I want people to feel that I'm going to be treated appropriately if I break the rules or do something dumb by accident.

Also I can't promise to watch the replays 12 times, as I share the ps3 & want to stay out of divorce court. LOL

So I'm going to put it out here & say this: If you're interested in stewarding, let me know. (By pm if you'd rather.)
Thus far I was just counting on cc570 & ID_Racing to be helpful in that area, because they have been in the past. ;o)

Mostly I think it's the "threat" of penalties (post race or in game) that really helps people be mindful about good sportsmanship and deters people from the temptation to skirt appropriate boundaries & push at the rules.
So perhaps just having a list of post-race penalties you can incur would be enough. If participants would like me to do that, let me know (in PM if you'd rather).

I'm always open to suggestions. And especially to change when it makes sense. Particularly since I'm new to all the additions & changes to gt5 in the past few months.

 

[BrandonW77]

^ Those are all valid points, but in my opinion the negatives of having penalties on far outweigh any positives. As Johnny said, people are here because they're looking for clean, organized racing and most will do their best to obey the rules. None of us are perfect and on occasion we will cross a track barrier or cut a corner too sharp/wide but as long as it's not repetitive and intentional there shouldn't be any harm with it. This includes the host, Punch, everyone knows you value clean racing and if you have an off track excursion it's most likely due to a mistake or momentary lack of concentration. I don't think there would be any complaints.

If people prove to be unable to race cleanly or continually make the same mistakes, you have a chat with them to explain what's going wrong and what they can do to fix it. If they still show bad behavior, you simply ask them to not participate anymore and remove them from your friends list. Some people don't realize what they're doing is wrong or "dirty" but most will be more than happy to change if they're made aware of the infractions.

In my league I have a fairly simple rule, everyone gets one warning and any serious infractions that happen after that result in a DQ from the race, simple as that. We had a couple issues in our first week this season, I made a couple detailed posts to the group explaining what was expected from them but didn't hand out any DQ's. We haven't had a single issue in the 6 or 7 races we've had since then.

That's just my 2 cents, this may or may not work for your group.

 

[ID_racing]

I noticed on one of the pages of the last book watermelon posted.. - my name came up.
And yes, I'll be happy to be one of the stewards for these races, I'll save the replays of each, and if anyone has a problem to settle that cant be fixed by PMíng (or a healthy fist-fight!) , send me a note and I'll take a look.

 

[watermelon punch]

@ Johnnypenso: Lotus Elan sent... it's a 0miles Royal Blue one. haha. I had 2 extra 0mile Elans... plus one was in my UCD with 301,000km on it, and another in my garage that had over 170,000miles on it. So I sent you a 0miles one.

I noticed on one of the pages of the last book watermelon posted.. - my name came up.
And yes, I'll be happy to be one of the stewards for these races, I'll save the replays of each, and if anyone has a problem to settle that cant be fixed by PMíng (or a healthy fist-fight!) , send me a note and I'll take a look.

You're going to get a healthy fist fight if you keep up the comedic remarks. LOL

Seriously ID_Racing, I appreciate your input and level-headed assistance, as always. )
And I'm far too girly I guess for a fist fight, or even threatening to DQ someone.

Post-race penalties seem diplomatic enough that I can bring myself to threaten them & follow through. haha.

@ BrandonW77: I guess we'll have to see what will work or not, & what everyone thinks. I'm not writing anything in stone at this point. And believe me, I value the diplomatic input.

 

[BrandonW77]

Don't change your rules on my account, I was just giving my opinion and I don't speak for everyone or even the majority. This is something I'd enjoy participating in but I, personally, won't race with penalties on. Again, just my opinion, and I'm not special enough to justify changing your rules.

 

[watermelon punch]

Don't change your rules on my account, I was just giving my opinion and I don't speak for everyone or even the majority. This is something I'd enjoy participating in but I, personally, won't race with penalties on. Again, just my opinion, and I'm not special enough to justify changing your rules.

No problem, I haven't thought you acting special or rude or anything. FYI.
I encourage everyone to put their 2 cents in if you are at all interested in anything we're planning.

 

[TrackBound7]

I would much rather race no penalties too. I didn't see that until now. I have run with Brandon and Yuri for several months now. We have always had things work out without the penalties being on. If I go off track...wait, when I go off track, it isn't on purpose to make up time, it's because I ran out of the little bit of talent I have .

 

[TyrrellRacing]

Looks good

TyrrellRacing / TyrrellRacing / TBD

I would also prefer it if penalties were off but I don't mind racing with them on

 

[watermelon punch]

welcome, added to the sign up & added to VCRC club forum.
Look forward to seein' you on the track.

 

[watermelon punch]

Okay... so the jury is still kind of out on the penalty setting for this Elan race, so I think we'll just go with penalty:weak for this week.

But the votes are in for next week's race, and we're going to go with no in-game penalty... with the expectation that the rules will be adhered to. And hopefully by then we can come to some sort of consensus about handling anything that might crop up.

So I've posted that:
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?p=6582390#post6582390
To give anyone interested a chance to grab it from the OCD before that updates. (Not sure how often it's been updating, anyone know?)
It's a nice car.

Look forward to seeing you guys on the ice ... I mean track Sunday.
And I've been practicing that last turn @ Deep Forest so as not to have any embarrassing unwanted pit stops.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I got the car...thanks Punch 👍

When I first started organized racing as opposed to online open lobbies, I was a little leery about being punted all over the track but so far in dozens of races it hasn't really been an issue. In an open lobby I'm all for penalties and ghosting because it's not an environment that fosters mutual respect and ghosting helps with that, especially the odd yo-yo running around backwards.

Yes there is contact without penalties, once in a while it results in someone losing time or position, but on the other hand, that's racing too. I prefer to go au natural' as they say, with no damage, no penalties and weak draft and I'm quite confident everyone will do their best to avoid unnecessary contact and if it happens, it'll be dealt with fairly.

 

[TrackBound7]

I am with Johnny on this, but it isn't my playground...will play by whatever rules are but forth. I did some quick testing on all 3 tracks tonight. This little car is quite a blast to drive. Slippery little devil, but lots of fun. Should be interesting to see who can keep and entire race clean and not slip up to the wall or the grass. She sure likes to bite when least expecting it.

 

[watermelon punch]

It's definitely a car with some character. Just when you think you get it really going, the momentary lapse of concentration can easily lead to the wall or a patch of grass... or in my case on a couple occasions... skittering into the pit lane at Deep Forest. That last turn sometimes surprises me in the Elan, no matter how many times it's the same exact turn. On that turn, I feel like it's an MR car or something.

I think I've only ever been punted in one organized race ever, and it wasn't on purpose of course. And that sort of thing has never been much of a problem in any of the races I hosted last year. But then, I've always been straight up front with people going in. And I think that's what's important - that everyone understands & agrees to the parameters up front.
Some people, like me, and several of the pals I've raced with lots, DO prefer the penalties off for a more "realistic" race (IE without that ghosting nonsense etc), with people who don't need the penalty system to drive cleanly... I rarely have a problem with penalties on myself. I rarely get penalties when penalties are on. But I'm always wary because then there's people who want the penalties off because maybe they don't want to be penalized for reckless driving, dive bombing, or track shorting. lol Well, that's fine if everyone agrees upon it going in... There is a middle ground between a dirty pub lobby with people being nutty... and the GTP OLR Rules - and there's several race series & leagues on GTP that are in that middle ground, and that's fine.
But most of the racers I raced with last year who are showing up again, really follow the GTP OLR Rules with pretty consistent adherence, and I thought it worked well for us, and that the majority were pleased.

It IS difficult to very drive cleanly in some cars, like the Elan, on crappy road tires. LOL But I think that's the point - and why most people who got in on this from the get-go voted for the lesser tires. Recklessness will not be rewarded reflected in a lap time, that's for sure.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Thanks a bunch Punch for setting this up and attending to hostess duties. It was great fun, the racing was very close and very clean even with this hard to control little beastie

I'll try and recruit a few more racers for the next time around as this would be incredibly intense with a full field of 12 and with the reverse race format in the last two races would make for an exciting and close championship event:tup:👍. Over at ORCA we're racing the stock Alfa Zagato this season and the fellas really seem to be enjoying the "no tuning" format and I'm sure several of them would like this format as well.

Thanks again Punch, welcome back, and I hope I can make some more of these events. Well done!!

PS Thanks Trackbound for joining in the fun, hope you enjoyed it even with the elusive grip.

 

[TyrrellRacing]

Sorry I couldn't attend today I was out. Hopefully I should be able to make it next week though.

 

[CC570]

. . .
It IS difficult to very drive cleanly in some cars, like the Elan, on crappy road tires. LOL But I think that's the point - and why most people who got in on this from the get-go voted for the lesser tires. Recklessness will not be rewarded reflected in a lap time, that's for sure.

I like driving the cars with the tires they come with. Usually they are a good match. Like the Elan, with the comfort softs. Put sport softs on it and the car really doesn't have enough power to control the rear end with the throttle. So in a way it is easier to drive with the "crappy" tires than with stickier sport tires. Just not easier to drive fast.
The race was fun and thanks for hosting. I had connection issues at first but they went away. This was the first time I've tried racing with no abs and using the clutch and shifter. What fun it was. Even though I threw it away the last time through the corkscrew by missing a downshift.
Looking forward to next week, then its a week off for me.
Thanks again.

 

[ID_racing]

Thanks for some great racing! Both my car and I had appareantly decided that we should be slow today, but all the same enjoyed the small battles we got involved in. At Deep Forest I was just a catshair in front of watermelon, which was fun, because I was watching in the rearview mirror each time we approached the last corner before the straight, and ..yup..on the last lap she made her infamous Deep Forest crash. But that moment of smirking was revenged when I drove of in one of the corners on lap 1 at Laguna, and plowed through most of the sand on the track before being able to enter the track again. Great group of clean racers, Im looking forward to next race.