Viability of older race cars from GT6 in GT Sport (Honda NSX LM Race Car)

[05XR8]

How old is too old? I'm watching BMI videos and race cars from past GT1 & GT2, and this topic made me think how competitive would they be in GTS. It's a matter of how PD tune them, but from these videos, the cars are plenty quick.

 

[Pedinhuh]

The PD should create GR. 2 cars fictitious, as it did in class GR.3.

I'm all for a Gr2 Supra with a Castrol livery.

 

[Skygrasper550]

Painful indeed. With Nissan the main piece in GT Academy, I swore it was coming.

Anyway, The XR8 runs on 17" wheels. The current Supercars run on 18". Last year, the tyre was also wider(290mm compared to 280mm) due to the squarer edge of the "new" Super Soft tyre. It gave more grip, but teams were too aggressive with negative camber and tyres were blowing. This lead Dunlop, to revert to the more rounded edge of previous years and harder compound. GT3 tyres are like 330mm.

Interesting.

Still, pretty impressive for a VASC to do all this with little aero, skinny tyres, a "welded" diff, no ABS/TCS and no paddle shifter.

Welded diff? Isn't that a locked diff or something similar?

How old is too old? I'm watching BMI videos and race cars from past GT1 & GT2, and this topic made me think how competitive would they be in GTS. It's a matter of how PD tune them, but from these videos, the cars are plenty quick.

Funny that you bring this up, because I drove that premium Acura NSX LM which was based on that NSX GT2 Tsuchiya drove. Out of the numerous Touring Cars that could be thrown in Gr.4, I chose that NSX and the CR-Z Touring Car as examples, and they both fit in Gr.4 perfectly. I have their lap times recorded but haven't uploaded them yet.

 

[05XR8]

Interesting.



Welded diff? Isn't that a locked diff or something similar?



Funny that you bring this up, because I drove that premium Acura NSX LM which was based on that NSX GT2 Tsuchiya drove. Out of the numerous Touring Cars that could be thrown in Gr.4, I chose that NSX and the CR-Z Touring Car as examples, and they both fit in Gr.4 perfectly. I have their lap times recorded but haven't uploaded them yet.

Yeah, it's a locked diff. just being funny.

Definitely the CR-Z and Prius would work. Though, those both seem like GT300-styled cars. Wasn't that NSX only able to be tuned to 400hp? Shame it couldn't be tuned to the LeMans car level of power.

Edit: Talking about the XR8
https://www.speedcafe.com/2018/11/13/video-seton-reunited-with-au-falcon-supercar/

 

[WaikeCU]

 

[Skygrasper550]

Yeah, it's a locked diff. just being funny.

My bad for being slow

Definitely the CR-Z and Prius would work. Though, those both seem like GT300-styled cars.

Yeah but not quite. Still, the CR-Z is quite amazing. I had its power bumped up to almost max and the chassis could still handle it.

Wasn't that NSX only able to be tuned to 400hp? Shame it couldn't be tuned to the LeMans car level of power.

Yeah, from what I could tell it could handle that kind of engine power. But it's still a fun car to drive.

Might as well throw in the Toyota GT-One and Pescarolo in that mix. Them 5 would make for an epic comeback.

I have a lap time recorded from the Abt Audi TT-R, if you or anyone else is interested. Only had enough credits for one DTM car, sadly.

 

[George Jakob]

Hallo everyone i have a huge list of suggested cars and classes but i will take ages to post them here so if anyone is intrested check my thread https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/gran-turismo-sport-review-version-5-5.373640/ (Warning its huge so prepare for some scroling ) if you do check it out please offer your feedback.

 

[WaikeCU]

Might as well throw in the Toyota GT-One and Pescarolo in that mix. Them 5 would make for an epic comeback.

Yeah, but those weren't featured in GT6 right? I only mention those that are in GT6

Of course I would really like the GT-One Or even CLK GTR if possible!

 

[05XR8]

Pescarolo C60 Hybride - Judd '05


Pescarolo Sport Courage C60 - Peugeot '03


Pescarolo-Courage - Judd GV5 '04

Yeah, but those weren't featured in GT6 right? I only mention those that are in GT6

Of course I would really like the GT-One Or even CLK GTR if possible!

The GT-One and Audi are also there.

Cars not in GT6, are some road cars(like Civic sedans) from GT1 and many cars(SN95 Mustangs, Forester, BMW 850i, etc) from GT2.

 

[VFOURMAX1]

Actually as this game is billed to be a driving and racing sim then I think that the racing classes should duplicate real life classes and eras. You want vintage race cars, cool just put enough of the same era cars that actually competed together in a racing class into the game and name the class whatever fits.

I would love to see such a class for 69-70 American trans am cars that actually competed in the series only. You could do the same for any vintage, any race class or vehicles.

Fantasy or cars that do not exist and do not actually race in a designated series should not be racing in a class which is supposed to represent or mimic its real world counterpart.

This should even be more true in a racing series or e-sports championship that is supposed to be officially endorsed by the FIA.

Fantasy cars and non real world race cars should be in some sort of "club" racing series or classifications not be racing in GR3 or GR4 racing series.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The PD should create GR. 2 cars fictitious, as it did in class GR.3.

Well they won't need to be doing that soon, as BMW and Audi have created cars which fit the Class 1 regulations.

This is something that I have been meaning to upload for quite some time but haven't, because back then we've had enough Gr.3 videos. Now, since @05XR8 has brought it to my attention recently, it looks like I'll have to postpone my Gr.4 videos yet again

The Ford Falcon XR8 is actually one of the first cars I touched on when recording GT6 videos, because it was one of the cars I highlighted in my main post. Keeping in mind that it's inferior to GT500 cars, I went ahead and tried to see if it's a good fit against GT3 cars in Gr.3 . Lo and behold, it's... actually not bad.

Car: Ford Falcon XR8 '00
Lap Time: 1:55.750 (-0.252 against benchmark)
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
Power: 599hp (Limiter at 100%)
Weight: 1350kg (Ballast at 0kg)



Despite the ridiculously close difference in lap times while in stock form, there is a lot that needs to be discussed here, chief among which is that a newer set of Australian V8 Supercars would be preferable should they be included in the game, because the Ford Falcon is a good 18 years old now. I really don't know much about Australian V8 Supercars, so it would be amazing if the Aussie members in here can share their point of view.

The weight of the car in GT6 isn't 100% accurate. It's actually closer to 1,450 KG which would definitely have an impact on performance.

 

[Skygrasper550]

The weight of the car in GT6 isn't 100% accurate. It's actually closer to 1,450 KG which would definitely have an impact on performance.

Really? That's quite heavy for a touring car. So what makes up for the extra 100kg or so?

 

[Skygrasper550]

After all the delays I can finally post my Gr.4 videos however, there's a catch.

Car: Porsche Cayman GT4 Clubsport
Lap Time: 2:04.507
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
BoP Settings: Enabled



Car: Renault Sport Megane Trophy '11
Lap Time: 2:04.489
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
BoP Settings: Enabled



Choosing the Cayman to set a benchmark time is a no-brainer, seeing as how it's the only proper GT4 car in the game in Gr.4 . However I've decided to record the Megane Trophy as well, because it's a returning car and so that would allow me to properly gauge the performance of other similar cars from GT6 (and also because it's part of the 15th Anniversary roster). But, would it?

Car: Renault Sport Megane Trophy '11
Lap Time: 2:03.841
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
Power: 312hp (Limiter at 87%)
Weight: 1098kg (Ballast at 143kg)



While I have been able to replicate the weight, the powerband is another story. See, the power limiter works differently in GT6 compared to GTSport. While the limiter affects the entire powerband across the board in GT Sport, the limiter only affects the engine output at the level you set it in GT6. It's why you see a car's power graph have a sort of flat line in GT6 when you set the limiter down to around 65%. While I have reduced the Megane's power output down to 312hp, the torque output remained the same, and that's what I think made the difference and allow the GT6 Megane to set a faster time compared to its GT Sport counterpart. I just wanted to point this out before posting any further Gr.4 videos.

 

[05XR8]

Really? That's quite heavy for a touring car. So what makes up for the extra 100kg or so?

2000 Dick Johnson Racing
Ford Falcon AU V8 Supercar

Engine: Ford/DJR 5.0-litre EFI V8
Power: 605hp (451kW) – 2000 trim

Looking for a weight on this car.

 

[Skygrasper550]

Whaddya know, just in time with me posting a video about the Lexus IS F CCS-R, pictures having been floating around confirming that the car will be in GT Sport let's just get straight to it, then.

Car: Lexus IS F CCS-R
Lap Time: 2:03.260
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
Power: 417hp (Limiter at 93.6%)
Weight: 1400kg (Ballast at 0kg)



From the looks of things, the IS F could very well be in Gr.4, but I'm having doubts about the downforce figures. Despite having dive planes and what looks to be a diffuser on the front, The car has 0 F/150 R downforce. Really weird. That's why the handling feels kind of funny; the front wheels are responsive but they feel sort of floaty, which reminds me of NFS:Shift physics. Because of that, it may unfortunately end up in Gr.X, but I'm keeping my hopes up.

One more thing, in the Dealership this car was rated at 417hp, but when I bought the car it had 449hp. I decided to follow what's stated in the Dealership and dialed it down immediately to 417hp.

 

[RZQSPEED]

Whaddya know, just in time with me posting a video about the Lexus IS F CCS-R, pictures having been floating around confirming that the car will be in GT Sport let's just get straight to it, then.

The "IS F CCS-R" that they are talking about was just an RC F Gr.4 unfortunately...

 

[05XR8]

Shame. We need more Sports sedans in the game. Anyway, the CCS-R, is a clean cut plug & play for Gr.4. As for the front aero, it'd be adjustable, if applied to Gr.4.

 

[Skygrasper550]

The "IS F CCS-R" that they are talking about was just an RC F Gr.4 unfortunately...

Oh...

Shame. We need more Sports sedans in the game. Anyway, the CCS-R, is a clean cut plug & play for Gr.4. As for the front aero, it'd be adjustable, if applied to Gr.4.

Yeah, we only got to have this car in one game, and I'd love to have it back again. Hopefully they'll do something about the aero like what they did with the Megane Trophy, because the Megane Trophy's aero was 50 F/100 R in GT6 (I just checked) but then it has the same aero values as the other Gr.4 cars in GT Sport.

 

[Skygrasper550]

As for this next bit, I thought I might do a double feature this time around, as work has consumed pretty much my entire time on weekdays and so I have less time to post. Since we just got the 2008 GT500 cars from Super GT in the latest update, I think it's safe to say that we might get the 2008 GT300 cars in turn in a future update. So with that in mind, I went ahead and recorded videos for 2 cars.

Car: Subaru BRZ GT300 '12
Lap Time: 1:56.424 (+0.422 against benchmark)
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
Power: 445hp (Limiter at 100%)
Weight: 1150kg (Ballast at 0kg)
Upgrades: Engine S3, hi-RPM turbo, Oil Change



Car: Lexus IS350 GT300 '08
Lap Time: 1:55.947 (-0.055 against benchmark)
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
Power: 494hp (Limiter at 100%)
Weight: 1150kg (Ballast at 0kg)



Fun fact: I actually have been working on the BRZ for quite some time, ever since I started posting the first few videos in this thread. Trying to get it up to pace with my Gr.3 benchmark, I had trouble because despite the engine and turbo upgrade, it was only producing around 425hp. The car just wasn't going fast enough on straights. I finally caved in to the Oil Change after we got the 2008 GT500 cars in GT Sport. And while it still needs a bit more power, it can keep up with my benchmark in that state. As for the Lexus, the hi-RPM turbo had a much more profound effect on the engine. It did generate the necessary power and shifted the powerband to what I consider is ideal in this case, but that massive power bump also resulted in massive turbo lag. I had to be careful exiting low-speed corners because the lag just throws the car off-balance instantly once it kicks in. Of course, no comment on their handling and chassis; they are top-notch and the extra power is just nothing to them, as expected.

Thing is, while the GT300 cars here setting up the same pace as GT3 cars is fine and dandy, they have less power and are much lighter. That's a huge advantage in Sport Mode. If they are going to include GT300 cars like these two in a future update, I'm really curious as to how PD will fiddle around with the BoP for these cars.

 

[ARTAsean]

Shame. We need more Sports sedans in the game. Anyway, the CCS-R, is a clean cut plug & play for Gr.4. As for the front aero, it'd be adjustable, if applied to Gr.4.

Or maybe PD makes a Pikes Peak class and adds this to it along with the Volkswagen I.D R.

 

[Balwerk]

Or maybe PD makes a Pikes Peak class and adds this to it along with the Volkswagen I.D R.

That's not a pikes peak specific build car, that's just a usual race car you can see on track.
Not sure why it not much have sold, or into production I just remember 2 or 3 IS-F CCS-R GT run in ring one at VLN (run by Toyota Swiss) and other at N24H. (run by Ring Racing/Novel Racing) Nah Novel Racing just switch on RCF this year. *Well that's 2018/2017 RCF not 2016 RCF based

 

[05XR8]

Have anyone tuned and tested the 190e and A4 DTM cars, for Gr.4 & Gr.3, respectively?

 

[Skygrasper550]

Have anyone tuned and tested the 190e and A4 DTM cars, for Gr.4 & Gr.3, respectively?

I've tested the Audi TT-R, already have a video but haven't uploaded it yet. As for the 190E DTM, I'll have to check if I have one in my garage.

 

[05XR8]

I've tested the Audi TT-R, already have a video but haven't uploaded it yet. As for the 190E DTM, I'll have to check if I have one in my garage.

Cool. I think the 190 could be tuned to over 350-360hp(?). Super lightweight too(under 1000kg?), if I remember correctly.

 

[Skygrasper550]

Going back into Gr.4, this time I thought I'd bring up something that has been a staple of the franchise since the GT3 days. I found them interesting and enjoyed them for quite a bit, and for this video I chose something that I think keeps in line with what kind of cars we have in GT Sport.

Car: Honda NSX LM Race Car
Lap Time: 2:03.701
Course: Nurburging GP
Tires: Racing:Soft
Power: 335hp (Limiter at 89.7%)
Weight: 1170kg (Ballast at 125kg)



Honestly you can substitute this car with any of the other fictional touring cars/race cars PD has made that has around 300hp (e.g. Altezza Touring Car, S2000 LM Race Car, etc.), but I figured I'd bust out the NSX for this one since GT Sport got the NSX Type R NA1 in a recent update, and because it looks awesome. Nothing much to say here, really. A little makeshift BoP would bring this car in line with Gr.4 no problem, as I have done. I do would like to apologize for the somewhat odd racing lines I was taking especially at low-speed corners; this is because of the physics problem that has plagued MR cars in GT6, so I was being too careful with the steering input.

 

[05XR8]

Seems like it would be on par with the 4C and Trophy BOP wise.

 

[sirjim73]

Thanks for doing all these comparisons @Skygrasper550 .

Turning up some interesting results and seems like a lot of the cars could be fitted in with varying degrees of BoP needed. 👍

 

[Castrol96]

Im wondering if they'll add the Touring Cars from GT5 dlc. There was a bunch of them and wonder what classes they would fit in?

 

[05XR8]

Im wondering if they'll add the Touring Cars from GT5 dlc. There was a bunch of them and wonder what classes they would fit in?

The Corvette RM, is essentially the Gr.4 car. I'd gather they'd be Gr.4 machines. Like the Impreza TC, Elise and Clio V6, those three would be sweet in that category.

Cars like the Skyline TCs, are closer to JGTC. So, maybe the R34 TC gets detuned to Gr.4 and the R32 & R33 TC goes up to Gr.3. I'd think the R35 TC would have to be changed to RWD and placed in Gr.3.

 

[RZQSPEED]

The Corvette RM, is essentially the Gr.4 car.

It has OZ Center Lockers and the specs (if you're talking about the C6 RMs) to be in Gr.3.