Vision Gran Turismo discussion- M-B AMG Vision unveiled

[Samus]

I like it, more of these please.

These may not go into production but these cars have design and engineering aspects which we'll see in future cars.

And besides if you don't like them do not buy, drive and look at them, problem solved.

Ah yes, the answer to everything.

I get the feeling if PD modelled dinosaurs and a theme park that would still be the answer to people who think PDs time would be better spent.

Hint: It's not a valid answer.

 

[TheMokafan]

I'm annoyed by how much that looks like a Porsche.

 

[daus26]

I get the feeling if PD modelled dinosaurs and a theme park that would still be the answer to people who think PDs time would be better spent.

C'mon, at this point you should know "better" is very subjective, so even if that ridiculous example is true, then it is simply better for people that think so and PD, but not to you or anyone that doesn't think so.

 

[Samus]

C'mon, at this point you should know "better" is very subjective, so even if that ridiculous example is true, then it is simply better for people that think so and PD, but not to you or anyone that doesn't think so.

What I'm saying is "Don't like it, don't use it" isn't a valid argument against the point people are making that they think the time is better spent elsewhere. Yes that is of course a subjective opinion but the counter argument to it isn't "Don't like it, don't use it". That isn't even arguing against the point being made.

 

[mcfizzle]

Pretty sure real car companies have a lot more designers and overall staff than PD do. Many concept cars will even be outsourced. So no, it's not the same at all. PD by choice are a small amount of people with limited time and resources that they need to use wisely. They don't have the luxury of being able to do something like this and it not affect their normal workload.

Obviously they do have the luxury because they are doing it. The other aspect of it I see is it gives PD something their competitor can't have. Especially when we see the track and car lists becoming more and more the same. PD adds Spa so does T10. Turn 10 adds R18 so does PD. There are fewer ways for the two to distinguish themselves and this is one.

Look, I'm much more excited to drive the R18 or Stingray than any of these cars but I don't view it as a negative. I view them as interesting cars I may want to drive, maybe not. Just like the other 1200 cars in the game. And what are we even talking about here? 15-30 cars added over the course of at least 1 year along with other production cars and tracks. I also don't know if we can say PD won't make X, Y, or Z cars because they chose to do this instead. Yeah, not that big of a deal, IMO.

 

[Samus]

Obviously they do have the luxury because they are doing it. The other aspect of it I see is it gives PD something their competitor can't have. Especially when we see the track and car lists becoming more and more the same. PD adds Spa so does T10. Turn 10 adds R18 so does PD. There are fewer ways for the two to distinguish themselves and this is one.

Look, I'm much more excited to drive the R18 or Stingray than any of these cars but I don't view it as a negative. I view them as interesting cars I may want to drive, maybe not. Just like the other 1200 cars in the game. And what are we even talking about here? 15-30 cars added over the course of at least 1 year along with other production cars and tracks. Yeah, not that big of a deal.

What the "negative" folk are arguing is that PD have a finite number of car modellers and a finite amount of time and in our opinion that would be better spent modelling real world cars.

No, it's not that big of a deal but we're on a discussion forum here, we're putting our thoughts out there on various topics, big and small but it seems more and more that is being frowned upon. You can't even say that you don't like the box art without you having your head being bitten off for "complaining".

So as my title say I'm taking time out again. I can't be bothered with not being allowed to dislike certain aspects of the game in freedom.

 

[mcfizzle]

What the "negative" folk are arguing is that PD have a finite number of car modellers and a finite amount of time and in our opinion that would be better spent modelling real world cars.

No, it's not that big of a deal but we're on a discussion forum here, we're putting our thoughts out there on various topics, big and small but it seems more and more that is being frowned upon. You can't even say that you don't like the box art without you having your head being bitten off for "complaining".

So as my title say I'm taking time out again. I can't be bothered with not being allowed to dislike certain aspects of the game in freedom.

Simon are we not having a discussion right now? I think you are doing a good job presenting why you don't like it and I'm try to do the same in why I think it's okay. I don't know what has gone on in other threads though.

 

[MXH]

And what are we even talking about here? 15-30 cars added over the course of at least 1 year along with other production cars and tracks. I also don't know if we can say PD won't make X, Y, or Z cars because they chose to do this instead. Yeah, not that big of a deal, IMO.

You might want to take the fact that each car takes approximately 6 months to make into account. Sure, all these collaborations are good and all, but I too would much rather pefer seeing that time being spent on real cars instead.

 

[MoLiEG]

I'm annoyed by how much that looks like a Porsche.

A streamlined SLS maybe???

 

[Imari]

Obviously they do have the luxury because they are doing it.

No, they don't have the luxury. As noted, they're a small team. If they put in 15 of these concepts, that's 15 other cars that we're not seeing.

In theory, I approve of them adding new and unique cars from the cutting edge of the automotive industry. If they weren't so strapped for time that two thirds of the cars in their game weren't low quality PS2 models, and if they'd actually managed to get a reasonable selection of the interesting cars from the ten years since GT4 came out.

It's about having a decent foundation of real cars in the game first, before getting all excited about concepts. GT has a really good selection of cars up to 2004, and then it sort of falls apart.

Of course, the other 185 new cars may be perfectly selected to fill that void. But their approach so far doesn't give much hope for that (*cough*Schwimmwagen*cough*).

 

[mcfizzle]

You might want to take the fact that each car takes approximately 6 months to make into account. Sure, all these collaborations are good and all, but I too would much rather pefer seeing that time being spent on real cars instead.

I've always wondered if that meant it took 6 calendar months or 6 months worth of man hours with multiple people putting in those hours? I also wondered how long ago that was stated since it seems we've heard that number for a long long time and if they have become more efficient since then?

But I did take into account modeling time when saying that and also note they seem to being doing a good job of pumping out cars currently and plan to continue through DLC. I was just saying we have no way of knowing if they are not modeling cars they want to because of this project of if they say we can meet the demand of cars we like plus take on this additional project.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I've always wondered if that meant it took 6 calendar months or 6 months worth of man hours with multiple people putting in those hours? I also wondered how long ago that was stated since it seems we've heard that number for a long long time and if they have become more efficient since then?

But I did take into account modeling time when saying that and also note they seem to being doing a good job of pumping out cars currently and plan to continue through DLC. I was just saying we have no way of knowing if they are not modeling cars they want to because of this project of if they say we can meet the demand of cars we like plus take on this additional project.

Man hours. It must be. If one person were to do everything, it would take them 6 months. Let's not forget that they have to get the real cars, test them, measure them, sort out the modelling, take sound samples, do the interior, sort out the info and specs, test them, do any damage modelling, get the colour options matched... and that doesn't include any legal stuff.

If it were 6 calender months, in 15 years, we'd only have 30 cars!

Either way. GT will probably never have enough cars to keep me happy, unless they just happen to pick 50 or 60 that I'd really like to see - and even then, its still a shame there is such a massive difference between standard and Premium.

I like this 'vision' aspect of the game... though I agree that the time might be better spent keeping things 'real' and worrying about cars that already exist that we want in the game... it must endear PD and GT to the manufacturers somewhat, and that's an important bridge to build.

 

[AMPMROCKETFANN]

A streamlined SLS maybe???

maybe streamlined SLS/SLR superhybrid

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

Ah yes, the answer to everything.

I get the feeling if PD modelled dinosaurs and a theme park that would still be the answer to people who think PDs time would be better spent.

Hint: It's not a valid answer.

There is no valid answer to an assumption.You don't even know if PD team modeled the cars, they could've got the 3D models direct from the manufacturers for all we know.

Careful now, that's the kind of negative thought that won't be tolerated round here. Someone will be along to explain why we need to love this idea right away!

Yes, creating drama from an assumption tends to not be tolerated in general.You don't have to love anything, but making a fuss about nothing is completely counter productive.I didn't even like the concept cars solely for the reason that customization is limited with them, same for a number of other cars.With that said after looking at some of these pictures I'm starting to love the idea of these new concept cars.

 

[Imari]

You don't even know if PD team modeled the cars, they could've got the 3D models direct from the manufacturers for all we know.

If they did, they would have been given CAD data, because that's what manufacturers work with.

In recent years, CAD data of actual cars are often provided to Gran Turismo thanks to our strong partnerships with automotive manufacturers and as a consequence, the time to understand the design of the car has been drastically reduced. The same cannot be said for the development time: a model will still take 6 months to create, and that is because the time and costs saved in the research phase are re-distributed into modelling to further improve the quality of the final product.

http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gt6/cars/

Straight from the mouth of the proverbial horse.

 

[shirakawaa]

So they're basically saying that even though nowadays with direct CAD data access and resources straight from the manufacturers modeling cars would take much less time than without such collaboration, PD will still deliberately take 6 months per car because they want to "further improve the quality"??

I knew it couldn't possibly actually take 6 months per car (any people with some experience with 3D modeling or who hang out with others that have it, would know), of man-hours even, but this is just ridiculous, and they're stating it so officially.

 

[MoLiEG]

So they're basically saying that even though nowadays with direct CAD data access and resources straight from the manufacturers modeling cars would take much less time than without such collaboration, PD will still deliberately take 6 months per car because they want to "further improve the quality"??

I knew it couldn't possibly actually take 6 months per car (any people with some experience with 3D modeling or who hang out with others that have it, would know), of man-hours even, but this is just ridiculous, and they're stating it so officially.

The Old 6 month thing... right...

They aren't fooling anybody... except for themselves...

 

[Panoz]

I'm curious on how the Nike Two will have any relation to the Nike One from GT4. The driver seems to be wearing a odd looking helmet give the idea of the "Spark Suit" being used like the One was.

The Air Jordan car could be a similar idea to the Nike One that the driver might have to drive motorcycle style since the car seems so narrow. Not far-fetch since Michael Jordan is a motorcycle enthusiast and owns a AMA Superbike team.

 

[MXH]

I've always wondered if that meant it took 6 calendar months or 6 months worth of man hours with multiple people putting in those hours? I also wondered how long ago that was stated since it seems we've heard that number for a long long time and if they have become more efficient since then?

It must've been around the time GT5P was released when Kaz himself said that, if I recall correctly. It is a statement from 5 years ago, but apparently it seems to be no different from today. Although, I honestly do have a very hard time buying into it. On the contrary, PD and efficiency don't seem to go hand in hand.

I was just saying we have no way of knowing if they are not modeling cars they want to because of this project of if they say we can meet the demand of cars we like plus take on this additional project.

Yes, you're correct. None of us knows for sure. But the probability is pretty high, thereof my wish they'd focus on actual and far more desirable cars. But this all pure speculation from my side. So, I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Dmarc_Atl]

If they did, they would have been given CAD data, because that's what manufacturers work with.



http://www.gran-turismo.com/au/products/gt6/cars/

Straight from the mouth of the proverbial horse.

Yes i'm aware of that but these are concept cars, which doesn't have specific specs which is one of the main purposes of transferring cad data.They could be standalone models directly from the modeler or even in some cases the modeler from a car manufacturer models the car at pd offices.

So they're basically saying that even though nowadays with direct CAD data access and resources straight from the manufacturers modeling cars would take much less time than without such collaboration, PD will still deliberately take 6 months per car because they want to "further improve the quality"??

I knew it couldn't possibly actually take 6 months per car (any people with some experience with 3D modeling or who hang out with others that have it, would know), of man-hours even, but this is just ridiculous, and they're stating it so officially.

Well I think it depends on what ever contract PD has with the car manufacturer.The cad model could be extremely high poly or incredibly tessellated or have no interior,all of which would make the car itself not ready to be put in game .If they do use cad models direct from the manufacturer, they more than likely use it as a reference if it still takes that long to model a car.As for the length, I personally think ( and hope ) its an estimate lol.Or atleast not only include the modeling process but also the creating and assigning of the joints ( animations ), car research and programing.I can see it taking close to 6 months for some cars though.But 6 months for say a gordon murray rocket car is insanely slow lol.

 

[Nurburgthing.]

Right, away from the tittle tattle and back to the normal discussion and theorising.

Here's what I think Nissan have planned. I also think it may be the 'car under the blue cover', minus the wing though.

GT-R Hybrid...

 

[DK]

Is it just me or does it look like Bertone and Zagato are trying to design a Batmobile?

 

[TheMokafan]

Is it just me or does it look like Bertone and Zagato are trying to design a Batmobile?

This is exactly what I thought lol

 

[danardif1]

Is it just me or does it look like Bertone and Zagato are trying to design a Batmobile?

Very much so... they've strayed a LONG way from 'traditional' Italian design, even some of the more wild designs are nothing compared to what these seem to look like!

 

[McLOVIN5489]

That BMW speaks to my soul, lol.

 

[Griffith500]

It doesn't seem that far fetched to me that Alfa Romeo might want to revive the Sei Cilindri name in a production car; after all we've had the 8C, and now the 4C...

I doubt the car companies really would "waste their time" on any of this, so it'll at the very least serve as a continuation of whatever "design language" they're currently leaning on, for marketing. Plus, it's pretty interesting to see what car makers might want to make before all the silly practical things start getting in the way. And then there's the small issue of what will happen to cars in the future as the "Energy" issue becomes ever more apparent - games like this may be the only way to "experience" (in some, currently constrained sense) certain kinds of cars for even more people than at present.

Quite interested to see what comes of this. I'm sure the programmers and UI designers are still working on their respective areas regardless.

 

[maxpontiac]

Yes, creating drama from an assumption tends to not be tolerated in general.You don't have to love anything, but making a fuss about nothing is completely counter productive..

Especially from long term members..👎

...

Anyways.... "Vision Gran Turismo" is very exciting to me.

Here we have 18 automotive giants collaborating with PDI to bring us, the GT6 gamer some exciting concepts. We are going to be treated to virtual machines that most likely won't be found anywhere else, and to me, that speaks volumes about how PDI views their fan base.

If you don't like what that represents due to the whole concept cars approach, that is on you, but as a Gran Turismo fan (as is everyone here posting) surely you must appreciate what the cooperation with PDI and the auto industry represents. The knowledge gained from this experience will be worth its weight in gold.

PDI continues to build one relationship after another with real world auto companies all the while bringing us along for the ride. For that, I commend them!

 

[Griffith500]

I'm suddenly reminded by all that fuss about PD / Kaz's involvement in real-world racing, how it could not in any way result in GT being a better game. Except now there's this collaboration between KW and Yokohama, plus the physics are being overhauled heavily, via all the "simulator" stuff they were taking with them to races in prototype versions of GT, plus the data they collected off the real cars (etc.)

 

[Panoz]

Right, away from the tittle tattle and back to the normal discussion and theorising.

Here's what I think Nissan have planned. I also think it may be the 'car under the blue cover', minus the wing though.

GT-R Hybrid...

Given Nissan's recent endeavor to electric powered cars, I'm guessing something much more wilder than the current electric cars Nissan have.

 

[Sidebrowns]

So, 18 prototypes right? I don't really see how 18 cars is really such a huge draw on resources that they can't produce models of 'real' cars as well. They said there's 1200 cars in the game. So even if they're counting some/all of the cars over 1000 in GT5 in that final car count, we're still getting relatively close to 200 new cars. And it also seems to be hinted that these prototypes won't all be on disc and will be free DLC and therefore wouldn't (all) be counted in the 1200 car count.

I like the idea that I can drive something unique to Gran Turismo, be it real world or fictional. I even liked playing around with the X201x (for a minute). I doubt the majority of these cars are going to be in that league and in fact I doubt any will hit that performance mark since in GT5 it's emphasized that the X cars are "out of this world".

I do completely understand the desire to have more real world cars though and see the viewpoint of those asking for such. The lack of some iconic cars is certainly frustrating in the GT catalogue. You have to take the bad with the good though if you want to play the game.