VW's next evolution in America. . . Possibly

[miata13B]

Well Volkswagen, with the engineering of a base model of the Phaeton decided to take the engine and drivetrain of it and slap it on a mkIV. What a wonderful idea Anyways here is the article. http://www.europeancarweb.com/firstlook/0305ec_r32/ With a tag of 28,000 here in the states, I believe a limited production of 4grand to 6 grand of these puppies will be produced to be sold here in the States. Unfortunately, that will also employ 500 people in Mexico, 500 in Germany, and I think expansion in Brazil will be 200 people. Come on VW, get some factories here in the States to produce jobs for car buyers of the same country. Oh wait a minute, there might be more recalls if that happens

 

[1X83Z]

$28,000 for a three-door which is taxed to do 0-60 in under seven seconds?

How does one even justify this against the WRX? That's $24,000 for 0-60 in 5.6, with almost all the same merits.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power
$28,000 for a three-door which strives to do 0-60 in under seven seconds?

How does one even justify this against the WRX?

Please clarify striving to me please, last time I check 6.5 seconds is not really striving.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
Please clarify striving to me please, last time I check 6.5 seconds is not really striving.

I changed it.

"Car" quotes 6.9. So how do you justify this against the WRX? Even in its highest spec it's cheaper.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power
I changed it.

"Car" quotes 6.9. So how do you justify this against the WRX? Even in its highest spec it's cheaper.

I have nothing to justify against the WRX. Actually, I never brought up the WRX in the first place. How come the famed WRX can't compete with the Evolution 8? Isn't that suppose to be its nemisis? Oh yeah, for 4 to 6 grand less then the Evolution 8 of course it is not going to perform up to the Evolution 8 .

The R32 is not a ground breaking sport compact car, but it is leading to the next evolution in hatchbacks that will be coming out. The WRX and the GTI R32 are in separate leagues here, but from your perspective, money is the key, not the car.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
I have nothing to justify against the WRX. Actually, I never brought up the WRX in the first place. How come the famed WRX can't compete with the Evolution 8? Isn't that suppose to be its nemisis? Oh yeah, for 4 to 6 grand less then the Evolution 8 of course it is not going to perform up to the Evolution 8 .

Well, no. The STi comes in in order to compete against the Evo, and it does a damn fine job of it. The WRX is the base entry for those who can't afford an STi.

The R32 is not a ground breaking sport compact car, but it is leading to the next evolution in hatchbacks that will be coming out. The WRX and the GTI R32 are in separate leagues here, but from your perspective, money is the key, not the car.

No. Both cars are sold to people who want to go quickly, have a fun new car, and look good. Remember, the WRX comes in a hatch too. The WRX is $24,000 and does 0-60 in 5.6. The R32 is $28,000 and does 0-60 in 6.5. Volkswagen built this car for European standards and anybody who buys one is passing up a much better deal from Subaru. I cannot understand why you would call them in seperate leagues.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power


Well, no. The STi comes in in order to compete against the Evo, and it does a damn fine job of it. The WRX is the base entry for those who can't afford an STi.

Hmmm base price of $30,995 which is most likely going to incur a bump price on it too. that is more then the GTI R32 now.

No. Both cars are sold to people who want to go quickly, have a fun new car, and look good. Remember, the WRX comes in a hatch too. The WRX is $24,000 and does 0-60 in 5.6. The R32 is $28,000 and does 0-60 in 6.5. Volkswagen built this car for European standards and anybody who buys one is passing up a much better deal from Subaru. I cannot understand why you would call them in seperate leagues. [/B]

Why they are seperate leagues, do you watch any WRC races? You would notice that the hatchbacks for the past two years have been tearing the WRX STI to shreads in them. There have been many debates of seperating hatchbacks from the sedans in rally racing, but nothing has come of it yet. Now in this case, the WRX does capitalize on performance.

As for the WRX Hatch, come on you got to be kidding me, who in their right mind would want to be caught in that thing. It looks more like mom's stationwagon on crack

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
Hmmm base price of $30,995 which is most likely going to incur a bump price on it too. that is more then the GTI R32 now.

Well, yeah, but the base WRX already preforms better than the R32, so who cares about the STi in comparison?

Why they are seperate leagues, do you watch any WRC races? You would notice that the hatchbacks for the past two years have been tearing the WRX STI to shreads in them. There have been many debates of seperating hatchbacks from the sedans in rally racing, but nothing has come of it yet. Now in this case, the WRX does capitalize on performance.

So basically you didn't answer my question. My point is that they're likely to be considered by the same people, and those people are going to regard the WRX as the better deal (one cannot say that it isn't based on preformance only). The only thing stopping them from a trip down to their local Subaru dealer is that the WRX has become the me, too contender and the R32's well rarer. They obviously both preform well, but the simple fact is that the WRX is quicker. There's no loss buying the WRX.

As for the WRX Hatch, come on you got to be kidding me, who in their right mind would want to be caught in that thing. It looks more like mom's stationwagon on crack

Mom's station wagon doesn't have a turbocharged boxer-four that does 0-60 in 5.8, but whatever.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power


Well, yeah, but the base WRX already preforms better than the R32, so who cares about the STi in comparison?

You brought up the STI here not me. . . Yes the base WRX does perform better. How is the depreciation on that thing?

So basically you didn't answer my question. My point is that they're likely to be considered by the same people, and those people are going to regard the WRX as the better deal (one cannot say that it isn't based on preformance only). The only thing stopping them from a trip down to their local Subaru dealer is that the WRX has become the me, too contender and the R32's well rarer. They obviously both preform well, but the simple fact is that the WRX is quicker. There's no loss buying the WRX.

I never said there was a loss buying the WRX, but the R32 as you put it is going to be rarer. The question however is the fact that one is a rice burner and the other a V6. The WRX is turbocharged and the R32 is NA. I am sure if there was a model with a turbocharger on the R32 we would see another price increase but even better performance too. Plus with taking off the additional weight that the R32 has, weighing in around 3200 lbs. you could drop the time on the performance of that car.

Mom's station wagon doesn't have a turbocharged boxer-four that does 0-60 in 5.8, but whatever. [/B]

Would you drive one?

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
You brought up the STI here not me. . . Yes the base WRX does perform better. How is the depreciation on that thing?

Very slow, the original year (2002) models are going for $20k-$23k, though I assume it's going to speed up a bit with the increased demand for the new nose.

I never said there was a loss buying the WRX, but the R32 as you put it is going to be rarer. The question however is the fact that one is a rice burner and the other a V6. The WRX is turbocharged and the R32 is NA.

[/b]

Well, that's personal preference, but demagoguery shouldn't be how cars are sold. The WRX is still faster, regardless of the engine type. If people are biased enough to care more that its Japanese than about its preformance, then they can be left to their own devices.

Would you drive one?

I'd drive one, but I wouldn't personally own anything in this class; I have very odd personally preferences and my next trip to the Subaru dealer will be for an Outback H6 Sedan.

 

[miata13B]

I am surprised that you brought up the WRX instead of the Evolution 8 here in this situation. Interesting and it has given me ideas on how to use it in a sale. Thanks Doug. BTW, for $19,000 at the right place you can get the VR6 GTI which is the same basic car but without the AWD.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
I am surprised that you brought up the WRX instead of the Evolution 8 here in this situation. Interesting and it has given me ideas on how to use it in a sale. Thanks Doug. BTW, for $19,000 at the right place you can get the VR6 GTI which is the same basic car but without the AWD.

Evo 8's a bit too expensive for the situation - any number of cars could've been brought up, but it's 12:45 AM and I knew the numbers on the WRX off my head (227 2.0 H4 5.6 5.8 23,495).

The WRX is unique in that it's been out for awhile - the quoted $23,495 is likely to be around the actual sale price now. The R32, Evo, and STi are probably all over $30,000 due to very high demand (followed by very high markups).

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power


The WRX is unique in that it's been out for awhile - the quoted $23,495 is likely to be around the actual sale price now. The R32, Evo, and STi are probably all over $30,000 due to very high demand (followed by very high markups).

Just wondering why you didn't, and it is 3:45am over here so that is not an excuse . The R32 is not even on sale yet and possibly might get scratched. If you know how to buy a car, then you won't be paying for any mark ups. If you do pay for mark ups or bumps, don't buy the car, leave the dealership, the salesman will call you back to purchase it

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
If you do pay for mark ups or bumps, don't buy the car, leave the dealership, the salesman will call you back to purchase it

Hell no! If a car is in very high demand they won't call you back, they know somebody else who will pay the markup will be along. That's why demand rules and Communism sucks.

 

[T13R]

Man M5Power.. you are not that right about the WRX being faster. And stop making price vs speed the only important factor in your comparison. For all I care I could get a GTI VR6, put 10 000$ of turbo upgrade and such, and I'll be faster than a McLaren F1. And then I could add that the total price of the Golf wouldnt even surpass the sales tax on the McLaren, therefore the Golf would be better. Thats the reasoning too many ppl use on this forum.

WRX weighs less, and thats in part due to the fact Japanese car makers use thinner steel on the car. German car makers use thicker steel. You can also see right there why there is a price increase. And then add the fact that it has 18" wheels to start off with.. cost rises once again( and acceleration is slightly slowed down ). Also the interior quality/looks are not comparable at all. The R32 interior is much nicer to look at than that of a WRX, and the quality of materials is also much better. So try to take an overall point of view before saying a WRX is better. Its super fast 0-60. But take a look at 1/4 mile times.. really not that much of a difference and this is a quote from the article "The quarter mile, conducted with mild, drivetrain-protecting launches, was run in an average of 14.8 sec. at 94 mph." Top speed is most definately higher on the R32. I would definately spend the extra 4K for it, very much worth it.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by T13R
Man M5Power.. you are not that right about the WRX being faster.

WTF? I included statistics for both vehicles. The WRX soundly beats it. Are you trying to argue with facts?

And stop making price vs speed the only important factor in your comparison. For all I care I could get a GTI VR6, put 10 000$ of turbo upgrade and such, and I'll be faster than a McLaren F1. And then I could add that the total price of the Golf wouldnt even surpass the sales tax on the McLaren, therefore the Golf would be better. Thats the reasoning too many ppl use on this forum.

Right.

WRX weighs less, and thats in part due to the fact Japanese car makers use thinner steel on the car. German car makers use thicker steel.

Well then consider this a down payment!

You can also see right there why there is a price increase. And then add the fact that it has 18" wheels to start off with..

The WRX has 18" wheels which are optional and still puts it $4k less than the base on the R32.

cost rises once again( and acceleration is slightly slowed down ). Also the interior quality/looks are not comparable at all. The R32 interior is much nicer to look at than that of a WRX, and the quality of materials is also much better.

You're hanging the $4000 price difference on the dash materials?

So try to take an overall point of view before saying a WRX is better.

Your view is very all-inclusive! 👍

Its super fast 0-60. But take a look at 1/4 mile times.. really not that much of a difference and this is a quote from the article "The quarter mile, conducted with mild, drivetrain-protecting launches, was run in an average of 14.8 sec. at 94 mph." Top speed is most definately higher on the R32.

"Most definately" isn't a statistic, but whatever.

I would definately spend the extra 4K for it, very much worth it.

Congrats! Excepting the dash materials I haven't heard an actual reason why!

[edit]My fault, I forgot the thinner steel. If you want to spend $4k for thicker steel and a nicer dashboard, be my guest. It's not like I actually care if you waste your money.[/edit]

 

[SaleenASL]

Originally posted by M5Power
...Outback H6 Sedan.

 

[T13R]

Originally posted by M5Power WTF? I included statistics for both vehicles.

If 0-60 is the only statistic you feel is important.. good for you

The WRX soundly beats it. Are you trying to argue with facts?

What facts are you talking about?? Dont say it soundly beats it by referring to a 0-60 time.

Right.

Yes, VR6 turbo golfs can do 1/4 mile in under 11 seconds, which is faster than a McLaren F1.

Well then consider this a down payment!

What the hell are you talking about?

The WRX has 18" wheels which are optional and still puts it $4k less than the base on the R32.

Yea ok, Subaru gives a free option of 18" wheels, uh-huh yea

You're hanging the $4000 price difference on the dash materials?

If interior = dash to you, go find a dictionary. Since you dont seem to WANT to understand, the interior includes EVERYTHING inside the car. And to clear things up a bit, the 4K difference lies within the engineering of the car and also the total build quality of the car. The window on a WRX closes onto the frame of the car. The wind noise lovers will agree, that rocks!

Your view is very all-inclusive! 👍

I thought it was, until I realised all-inclusive meant 0-60 👍

"Most definately" isn't a statistic, but whatever.

nice comeback, considering you didnt have anything better to say. But I will confirm now. WRX is about 14 mph slower than the R32. But yea the WRX soundly beats it.

Congrats! Excepting the dash materials I haven't heard an actual reason why!

Congrats on being an asshole and unwilling to accept someone else's point of view.

[edit]My fault, I forgot the thinner steel. If you want to spend $4k for thicker steel and a nicer dashboard, be my guest. It's not like I actually care if you waste your money.[/edit]

Wow, dont you look smart now.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by T13R
If 0-60 is the only statistic you feel is important.. good for you What facts are you talking about?? Dont say it soundly beats it by referring to a 0-60 time.

What other facts do you want? Convieniently, several key speed statistics for the R32 aren't available.

Yes, VR6 turbo golfs can do 1/4 mile in under 11 seconds, which is faster than a McLaren F1.

So?

What the hell are you talking about?

That nobody cares about the thickness of the steel. Duh?

Yea ok, Subaru gives a free option of 18" wheels, uh-huh yea

Um, no. WRX lists at $23,595, and the R32 is 'around $28,000' without the dealer markup. $4000 was on the conservative side.

If interior = dash to you, go find a dictionary. Since you dont seem to WANT to understand, the interior includes EVERYTHING inside the car. And to clear things up a bit, the 4K difference lies within the engineering of the car and also the total build quality of the car. The window on a WRX closes onto the frame of the car. The wind noise lovers will agree, that rocks!

Oh. So the R32 hasn't got frameless windows and is therefore better. Fair point. So now we've got $4500 (for a slower car, mind you) based on steel thickness, frameless windows and 'interior quality.'

I thought it was, until I realised all-inclusive meant 0-60 👍

So you think your view is objective? I equally dislike each of these cars; I have no biases in this class. It seems to me, though, that when one can buy a quicker, newer car for cheaper, they probably should.

nice comeback, considering you didnt have anything better to say. But I will confirm now. WRX is about 14 mph slower than the R32. But yea the WRX soundly beats it.

I'll confirm too - the WRX costs $6,212 and the R32 costs $11,083,293. Do you believe those statistics? Um, no. So why should I believe yours? Exactly.

Congrats on being an asshole and unwilling to accept someone else's point of view.

If you had a point of view other than '0-60 doesn't count,' and that steel thickness, "interior quality," and frameless windows are worth $4500, I would take it seriously.

 

[T13R]

How old are you? But seriously?
How many more stupidities will you write?
I got the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of the R32 off the link miata13b conveniently posted at the beginning of this thread. As for top speed, I checked on www.supercars.net, where they show 152.2 mph. Then I looked at the WRX in a book I had of 2002 models. The WRX goes 225 Km/H which translates to 138 mph. Thus the 14 mph slower remark. I then went to Road&Track site to see what they did on the 1/4 mile with the WRX. Result is 14.4 seconds. This is 0.4 seconds quicker than the R32 which had mild, drivetrain-protecting launches. So please, I have you the numbers, and now please stop saying the WRX soundly beats it.

You dont seem to know much about cars even if you think you do. If you get into an accident, the WRX will crumple up like a friggin potato chip bag. This means more damage than a car with thicker steel. Duh. And your nickname is M5Power... a person seeing your name would think you would actually know why most european cars cost more than japanese cars. Im sorry but this time you look like an idiot, especially considering the fact you still take the 0-60 time to be the definite factor that says the WRX is better for the money. I know your better than this. Ive read quite a few posts of yours. Snap out of it or sumtin. Im not here to bash on you. Accept my friggin opinion and thats it. Only reason I answered back before is cuz u pissed me off.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by T13R
How old are you? But seriously?
How many more stupidities will you write?

How many more stupidities will I write?

You dont seem to know much about cars even if you think you do. If you get into an accident, the WRX will crumple up like a friggin potato chip bag. This means more damage than a car with thicker steel.

The Impreza line has recently received a 5-star frontal crash-test rating for the passenger and a 4-star rating for the frontal driver as well as front-side and rollover resistance. For those of you keeping track, that's one five and three fours - pretty good for a 'friggin potato chip bag.'

Duh. And your nickname is M5Power... a person seeing your name would think you would actually know why most european cars cost more than japanese cars.

When the cars can be compared side-by-side and have one clearly win except in top speed, steel thickness, and window frames, I think it's pretty easy to see why the Japanese car wins sometimes.

Im sorry but this time you look like an idiot, especially considering the fact you still take the 0-60 time to be the definite factor that says the WRX is better for the money.

Fine, eat:

- The WRX has a quicker quarter mile time (14.4 to 14.8)
- The WRX has a quicker 0-60 time (5.6 to 6.5)
- The WRX is cheaper ($23,595 to 'about $28,000')
- The WRX wagon has 61.6 cu ft of cargo space to the R32's 41.8
- The WRX has capacity for 15.9 gallons of fuel to the R32's 14.5
- The WRX has 33.7" of rear leg room to the R32's 33.5"
- The WRX has 39.7" of maximum from head room to the R32's 38.6"
- The WRX has 42.9" of maximum front legroom to the R32's 41.5"
- The WRX's turning circle is 35.4' to the R32's 35.8'
- The WRX can tow a maximum of 2000 lbs, the R32 cannot tow
- The WRX's passenger volume is 90.4 cu ft, the R32's is 88.0 cu ft
- The WRX comes standard with a rear spoiler and fog lights, they're options on the VR6 GTI (not sure about the R32)
- The WRX offers an automatic, the R32 does not

I don't know what else you want. And don't tell me these statistics don't matter. If the only thing that you think matters is top speed, then there's no sense discussing.

 

[Timmotheus]

Originally posted by T13R
But seriously?
How many more stupidities will you write?

How ironic.
Edit: Damn, Doug beat me...

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by T13R

You dont seem to know much about cars even if you think you do. If you get into an accident, the WRX will crumple up like a friggin potato chip bag. This means more damage than a car with thicker steel. Duh. And your nickname is M5Power... a person seeing your name would think you would actually know why most european cars cost more than japanese cars. Im sorry but this time you look like an idiot, especially considering the fact you still take the 0-60 time to be the definite factor that says the WRX is better for the money. I know your better than this. Ive read quite a few posts of yours. Snap out of it or sumtin. Im not here to bash on you. Accept my friggin opinion and thats it. Only reason I answered back before is cuz u pissed me off.

Ouch, here is a coke and a smile, have a nice day.

Ok, well you are also using two versions of a car, I can easily bring the 1.8t GTI into the picture which is $4000 less then the WRX and will come close to the R32 in specs, but no where near the quality of these two cars. But at $4000 less and a little performance in the 1.8t, that is the best buy

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B

Ok, well you are also using two versions of a car, I can easily bring the 1.8t GTI into the picture which is $4000 less then the WRX and will come close to the R32 in specs, but no where near the quality of these two cars. But at $4000 less and a little performance in the 1.8t, that is the best buy

It's not quite up in preformance - I used it for my specs in my last post, and it's a fair bit slower. The real comparison here would be between a VR6 GTI and the WRX; I don't understand why Volkswagen needs a GTI beyond the VR6, especially when the WRX beats it in the one category it excells beyond the GTI VR6 at (speed).

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power
It's not quite up in preformance - I used it for my specs in my last post, and it's a fair bit slower. The real comparison here would be between a VR6 GTI and the WRX; I don't understand why Volkswagen needs a GTI beyond the VR6, especially when the WRX beats it in the one category it excells beyond the GTI VR6 at (speed).

The VR6 GTI is only front wheel drive too, so launches on that would be really difficult as compared to the WRX.

By the way also on the WRX which I know of a few have a few problems with its tranny and clutch drops at realitivy moderate rpms. Two friends had this happen to them, plus a recall on seat belt latches. If this is what I am getting for safety, I'd rather blow it on a Delorean.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
The VR6 GTI is only front wheel drive too, so launches on that would be really difficult as compared to the WRX.

Yeah, but I'm sure it makes up for it in areas - it probably gets better fuel economy because it has less horsepower, and it's about $2000 less overall.

The WRX is quicker, yes, but the VR6 GTI does have 200 horsepower which is not to be taken lightly.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power
Yeah, but I'm sure it makes up for it in areas - it probably gets better fuel economy because it has less horsepower, and it's about $2000 less overall.

The WRX is quicker, yes, but the VR6 GTI does have 200 horsepower which is not to be taken lightly.

And doesn't havea tranny problem or a fear of flying through the windshield because your seatbelt latch doesn't work.



edit: You know Doug, even though you try hard to get under peoples skins, I think you give some of the best conversations around. You make me have to think quickly which I need all the pratice possible.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
And doesn't havea tranny problem or a fear of flying through the windshield because your seatbelt latch doesn't work.

Always good. Has the current Golf model gone through any recalls? I haven't been able to find the data.

You know Doug, even though you try hard to get under peoples skins, I think you give some of the best conversations around. You make me have to think quickly which I need all the pratice possible.

Thanks, but I wasn't trying to get under his skin, I was just trying to tick him off enough until he began using personal insults at which point I would become hysterical at his use of personal insults.

 

[miata13B]

Originally posted by M5Power


Always good. Has the current Golf model gone through any recalls? I haven't been able to find the data. [/B]

Yeah, there are two know ones,

1. is for the interior having problems with being cleaned, which is easily fixed.

2. A light bulb that lights up the A/C button.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by miata13B
Yeah, there are two know ones,

1. is for the interior having problems with being cleaned, which is easily fixed.

2. A light bulb that lights up the A/C button.

Nothing for safety then; the Impreza models are the same way, so both vehicles are reliable.