Wall contact damage

[Bullwinkle]

What I don’t understand is that if this is designed to prevent wall riding, yet is penalizing any kind of wall contact, why don’t they only penalize extended wall contact rather than any kind of wall contact? For example, any wall contact over a half second and you get the damage and penalty applied. Seriously. Problem solved, right?

Or does this make too much sense to actually expect it to be implemented?

[edit] I did conflate damage and penalties applied, but they’re closely enough related to still work.

 

[bigmull]

Yeah, but is it me, i ran Tokyo WTC 600 last night and it feels like time penalties are less strict, because i did not get any penalties, where as i usually get one or two.

On the 700 Le Mans race i am getting at lrast one penalty whereas before i was getting none,they over did something there.

 

[kjeldsen]

It's a good balance between actions and consequences, after all the car magical repairs itself.

 

[Live25]

I find it a bit of both. The old model would let you bang around the track like a damn pinball and suffer little to no damage, that was too unrealistic. Now, the most marginal of contact renders your car nearly undrivable, the pendulum swung too far IMO. In fact, I have noticed damage when I hit NOTHING, this is the one that drives me up the wall.

 

[BangsMcCoy]

after all the car magical repairs itself.

Which, given how that actually works out somehow seems to make the whole damage thing even worse on smaller technical tracks. Nothing like having to correct your steering through a turn because AI decided to sideswipe you and now you have damage to both wheels on that side which results in quite a pull on your cars steering and halfway through a turn, without notice, that damage magically goes away and all the sudden you’re heading straight into a wall or another car because now you’re not correcting pull to one side from said damage and steering is normal again. In these situations, more often than not you hit the wall or another car and your damage cycle starts all over again and best you can do is hope this time it goes away on a straight or with no other cars near you, otherwise you’re in for another surprise in about 20-30 seconds.

 

[johnson_57]

I’m in favor of it. Way more realistic IMO.

And while were at it.......make the AI idiots obey blue flags as well

 

[Live25]

And while were at it.......make the AI idiots obey blue flags as well

Seriously, the blue flag comes out and they go straight to the driving line, so aggravating.

 

[TumeK5]

Early study shows it's 50-50. Interesting.

Still more or less 50-50!

 

[BangsMcCoy]

Seriously, the blue flag comes out and they go straight to the driving line, so aggravating.

And hit you if you’re already in it and they want that spot.

 

[kraftwerkd]

Early study shows it's 50-50. Interesting.

Still 50/50 after 66 votes. I voted No and evened it out - I don't mind the new damage model at all.

 

[kjeldsen]

Which, given how that actually works out somehow seems to make the whole damage thing even worse on smaller technical tracks. Nothing like having to correct your steering through a turn because AI decided to sideswipe you and now you have damage to both wheels on that side which results in quite a pull on your cars steering and halfway through a turn, without notice, that damage magically goes away and all the sudden you’re heading straight into a wall or another car because now you’re not correcting pull to one side from said damage and steering is normal again. In these situations, more often than not you hit the wall or another car and your damage cycle starts all over again and best you can do is hope this time it goes away on a straight or with no other cars near you, otherwise you’re in for another surprise in about 20-30 seconds.

I find the AI predictable and know what to do to avoid getting damage from them. Just as with the damage it's pretty easy to guess when the magic repair is done.

 

[TumeK5]

Still 50/50 after 66 votes. I voted No and evened it out - I don't mind the new damage model at all.

Well, yes...I did post an update just above 👀

 

[BangsMcCoy]

I find the AI predictable and know what to do to avoid getting damage from them. Just as with the damage it's pretty easy to guess when the magic repair is done.

Perhaps on Easy or Normal modes, but on Hard the AI is wildly unpredictable in this game. Their is no pattern or consistency as to where they will be on the track at a given point of the track or time in the race. You can’t say on this track at this time this car will be here or move there no matter what. The only exception to this may be 1st place as they have the luxury of being able to pick their line at the beginning of the race until others catch up to them and force them to change their line. Often times they make moves that simply make no sense at all and prove to be of no benefit to them or the cars around them, just random swerving or braking.
On certain tracks it’s easy to avoid them (Sarthe is a prime example), but on narrower tracks (Tokyo for example) at times it’s almost impossible to avoid them unless you hang back and not challenge them for position, but that’s not fun nor what I would consider racing, that’s just joyriding on a track.

As far as damage repair goes, I suppose I could time how long it lasts exactly with a stopwatch and then count down in my head as I’m racing when I do get damage so I know when it’ll stop, but that kind of goes out the window after AI has played pinball with you and you have multiple damage cycles running concurrently and you don’t know when which one ends. This would also fall under the “not an enjoyable experience” column for me to have to countdown when my car will behave correctly again because AI doesn’t know to not hit others. People are expected to have professional driving etiquette in this game, why not aid with that by having AI lead by example? Why let them run wild (literally) but demand that you do everything in your power to avoid their unpredictable attacks and poor sportsmanship?

 

[Live25]

I’m not so sure the self-repair is coded to time. In my experience, it seems tied to distance traveled more than time elapsed.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The only place where the damage is a serious problem is on Tokyo Expressway.

 

[I-Runner]

It's a "badly hidden" strategy for discourage our grìnding instead buy their MTX .... (IMHO)

Last year I had a car wreck, in the real life, scrubbed a guard rail and the impact was stronger than "the ones simulated" in GT7 (since 1.20) that ruins the driveability of the car ... I had only an esthetic damage not mechanical (and many $$$$ to the repair shop)..

This measure could be useful on Blue Moon Bay Superspeedway or any other oval where a lightly touch helps to make the turn very fast (time trial) , due to my experience in GTSport sport mode races (the first year , when races changed each day.. )

Some implementations mustn't be generic but dedicated to specific situations .. see the last update (1.21) for make a correction about a issue generated by generic mods.


IR

 

[TumeK5]

Alright, the results are in! 42 people including myself voted for Yes, while 34 voted for No.

 

[DivitLad]

Doesn't bother me but just the slightest brush of the wall is too far, wreckers gonna wreck no matter the penalty system

 

[hardvibes]

I've been playing a lot Dragon Trail race B... I can confirm again that the damage is really exaggerated, especially with that damn chicane...and even the sharp corner later on. You touch the wall just a tiny bit and at low speed and it messes up the steering.

PD has to tone it down.

 

[hollowkatt]

Sure, I'll be the guy who says the damage model is broken AF in Sport Mode. Especially when it's very easy to run someone wide into a corner and thus wall, or gently nudge a car off track and again into a wall, or in the case of Sardegna this week squeeze someone into a wall that's right off of the circuit.

You won't get any damage but they'll be crippled for at least 30 seconds.

Contact shouldn't be free but for sure contact shouldn't be race ending.
Look at some real world motorsports:

IMSA/WEC - contact during all different phases of the race between cars, walls, multi-classes, cars continue just fine.

NASCAR - the origin of the punt to pass, "he ain't wrecked you he rubbed you and rubbin, son, is racin'", using the chrome horn to move someone off line

IndyCar - cars routinely touch wheels, wheels touch chassis, wheels touch walls, cars continue on. Not as easily or as often as in IMSA/WEC/NASCAR, but definitely with far less damage than done to my GR.4 when I brush the wall let alone go door to door into a corner

F1 - have seen quite a few touches without damage but I will admit that here the comparison starts to become more apt between IRL and online racing. Most vigorous touches result in one or more cars retiring, but cars can still go wheel to wheel and right up against a wall without being forced to crawl for 30 seconds.

Compare that to what we see in GT7 where brushing the wall can put damage on your entire right side of the car slowing you down and causing you to have to countersteer for 30 seconds (or more for worse damage), or going wheel to wheel into a corner, leaning on each other, and you both come away with fender, side, and sometimes even engine damage.

It's far from realistic and while I understand PD trying to use the damage model to enforce "clean racing" all it really does is give griefers a new weapon to cause chaos as they can take slight damage to shunt you into a wall and your race is over.

I can see that working on open wheel series but in GR.4/GR.3/GR.1 racing? Nah, that stuff happens literally all race long and rarely does anything adverse happen to the car(s) involved.

 

[UnkaD]

Current damage model has me feeling like this.

 

[AlexWilmot]

If you have to justify making contact with a quote from a movie, then you shouldn’t be racing

 

[hollowkatt]

If you have to justify making contact with a quote from a movie, then you shouldn’t be racing

I'm assuming you have next to no experience or understanding of racing in the US or anything outside of open wheel racing really.
That's not just a movie quote, that's happening on a weekly basis in NASCAR. Guys get moved, guys race door to door, leaning on each other, and guys rub. It's just what happens.

In IMSA and WEC cars are literally leaning on each other through corners, cars get a little bump and nobody notices or cares, the car isn't broken.

It really is only in F1 (and to a lesser extent IndyCar) where car to car contact is verboten and avoided at all costs.

This is not only not penalized, this is celebrated:


Should contact be avoided? Sure, sometimes. But should contact end your race completely like it currently does? Absolutely not.

 

[AlexWilmot]

In IMSA and WEC cars are literally leaning on each other through corners, cars get a little bump and nobody notices or cares, the car isn't broken.

For like 1% of the entire race the cars would “lean” against each other, and when they “lean” they usually have something broken to slow their pace or need a pit stop to fix. Contact does happen but not as often as you’re implying.

Should contact be avoided? Sure, sometimes.

Not sometimes, all times.

But should contact end your race completely like it currently does? Absolutely not.

It doesn’t end your race with the way it is.

And yes I’m well aware of nascar and the style of racing in the states as well as the construction of such cars being completely different to anything we have in GT7, in fact it’s pretty agricultural in comparison hence why the bumping doesn’t give major damage due to it mostly being a space frame chassis with panels merely attached on

You should see how light touches in the Porsche Super Cup ruins cars, not just using nascar as your case study, yes you mentioned WEC but again contact is not often as you make it out to be.

But when it does happen, I guess the contact damage in real life with this “lean” is exaggerated too much…


Edit:
Ok so here the First two incidents here clearly show a bit of “lean” has had too much damage to a point where pitting or loss of control happens

 

[Live25]

I'm assuming you have next to no experience or understanding of racing in the US or anything outside of open wheel racing really.
That's not just a movie quote, that's happening on a weekly basis in NASCAR. Guys get moved, guys race door to door, leaning on each other, and guys rub. It's just what happens.

In IMSA and WEC cars are literally leaning on each other through corners, cars get a little bump and nobody notices or cares, the car isn't broken.

It really is only in F1 (and to a lesser extent IndyCar) where car to car contact is verboten and avoided at all costs.

This is not only not penalized, this is celebrated:


Should contact be avoided? Sure, sometimes. But should contact end your race completely like it currently does? Absolutely not.

And guys travel all the time in the NBA and the league allows it, that doesn’t make it basketball…

 

[gambleboyen]

I guess everything has been said already, but what is the reasoning behind crippling the engine/drive train after slight wall contact? This doesn't make any sense.

 

[Zero2Oblivion]

I guess everything has been said already, but what is the reasoning behind crippling the engine/drive train after slight wall contact? This doesn't make any sense.

It feels like they've focused heavily on trying to stop wall riding that was advantageous, while not remembering that they also ramped up barrier contact penalties.

If you take barrier contact penalties out of the mix, damaging the engine or handling on wall contact makes sense, it's just that in normal PD style they've gone way past what would be reasonable and decided a tap against the wall is equal to full on collision or prolonged contact like wall riding.

 

[Nebuc72]

It feels like they've focused heavily on trying to stop wall riding that was advantageous, while not remembering that they also ramped up barrier contact penalties.

If you take barrier contact penalties out of the mix, damaging the engine or handling on wall contact makes sense, it's just that in normal PD style they've gone way past what would be reasonable and decided a tap against the wall is equal to full on collision or prolonged contact like wall riding.

They tried both. Ramping up contact penalties initially wasn't enough (bump drafting into a wall ride voided the penalty, as well as hitting it at a shallow enough angle) so they resorted to collision penalties after that in the following update.

It's not as black and white as them going from 0-100, they at least tried something else before going all out on it lol.

 

[gambleboyen]

They still don't know how to make a racing game :-(

 

[GTboyz]

Just yesterday I lightly grazed the wall, not even a love tap, and the game still gave me damage. They just need to tone it down a bit and it's fine.