Wallbanger's 2nd Annual FF Summer Shootout

[JackWilson]

Lower ride height makes the steering feel heavier for me.

Raising the ride height and stiffening the anti-roll bars usually makes steering feel lighter. If i remember correctly.

 

[Ronald6]

But would "lightening" the feel increase the range of feel?

I believe the problem is more related to contact patch rather than body roll (Ugh! Thinking like a tuner hurts my brain.)

 

[Onboy123]

But would "lightening" the feel increase the range of feel?

I believe the problem is more related to contact patch rather than body roll (Ugh! Thinking like a tuner hurts my brain.)

Welcome to our world. Gone mad and mental yet?

The tuning cause/effects of each part seems to have changed. In the past, I could have sworn that going higher on the Accel with the LSD removed understeer and made the steering go all light and twitchy, yet now, it seems to cause understeer without much difference to the steering feel at all…

…maybe I am just going nuts with paranoia.

 

[JackWilson]

But would "lightening" the feel increase the range of feel?

I believe the problem is more related to contact patch rather than body roll (Ugh! Thinking like a tuner hurts my brain.)

'Range of feel'

Not quite sure what you mean

But if its when you turn the wheel and the car doesn't turn as much as you would like it to. then that is something I experienced last night in the Lotus Espirit '85, I just got frustrated and quit so I wasn't able to figure out how to fix it.

And by that, no, i don't think lightening the feeling would increase range of feel.

It could be down to front toe. Not sure though, haven't had time to test.

 

[Ronald6]

By 'range of feel' I mean that my wheel gives me feedback on how much grip I have left.

In my notes for some cars on LSeca I talk about the range between 'grip and slip.' A good tune will not have an abrupt loss of traction, ie "snap" over- and under-steer. One of the spectacular attributes of ACSRs' tune is that I know exactly how much grip I have left. The grip - slip = mega. Not only does it have phenomenal grip but I know how much throttle I can give the vehicle for each (simple) given angle of turn. There is no immediate loss of traction but a whole range of slip before the tyres overload/slip.

It's this grip - slip that allows me to feel just how close I am to losing it.

My brothers rl MR2 has an amazing range of feel. I can push it up to 99.9% of its grip and ride that .1% comfortably. Ok, maybe .2%, I'm not an alien.

 

[JackWilson]

Got ya!!

I find it hard to notice this but will try to notice it next time I'm on the ps3.

Cheers

 

[Onboy123]

I'm guessing it might be the LSD again…perhaps it's the low values on the LSD Accel? Oh, and of course, the +ve ride height also helps.

 

[XDesperado67]

Just a shot in the dark here, but I'm guessing that the cars that had better "soak" on Toscana will for the most part have a better feel on Laguna Seca as regards to their grip unless they have an overly soft and spongy suspension.
A very firm suspension may allow for great cornering but give little indication of where the limits of its grip is. Since the DS3 only gives limited feedback I personally do a lot of my tuning by ear listening for tire squeal, where and when it occurs and how loud it is. That combined with the tire indicators is about all I have to go by. This isn't to say I don't have a feel for the car and it's handling just that some of the finer nuances I take for granted in real life and that wheel users can get in game are absent with the DS3.
While tuning the CR-Z I was frustrated for quite a while because it felt heavy and reluctant to rotate the way I wanted. While my posted tune for this Shootout is much better than when I started it still doesn't feel as light as I would like it to, then again that was after doing my latest tweaks to the "Pocket Monster" which rotates on a dime and gives you change...

 

[Ronald6]

Ok, my first round on LSeca for Class B is done. I tried to make as extensive notes for each tune as I could.

Next I'm going for hot laps. I'll post the Tuner and car as on page 20 but this time only with the best second round time. Enjoy.

Desperado:
Honda CR-Z '10, "Katana":
1:44.610

Krenkme:
Toyota Vitz RS Turbo '02, "Phyllobates Terribilis":
1:44.281

C-Zeta (V16T91):
Mazda Demio Sport '03:
1:45.344

NewDriver2 (OTS_NewDriver2):
Audi A2 1.4 '02:
1:45.535

Jackthalad (Crystalbuds):
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:45.096

ACSR421:
Mazda Kusabi '03:
1:41.941

TrackRipper123 (Ziz528):
Mazda Kusabi Concept '03:
1:41.859 (and I was up by .389 on that ghost)

OSE-CAP-SHADOW:
IST-R (Toyota ist 1.5s '02):
1:45.741

LineR32:
Ka Kit Car:
1:49.344

Motor City Hami (MotorCytHamilton):
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:44.244

Onboy123:
Honda Jazz 1.4 (fit?):
1:44.757

JollyGreen (thelitch77):
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:45.458

Diogo G. (werty_56-1):
Volks Lupo 1.4 "Sunday Driver", '02:
1:46.806

Theo777 (Zigatan):
Nissan Micra "MicraMachine", '03:
1:43.007

Jkineary #Desp:
Fiat 500 Rally (fiat 500 1.2 8V?):
1:48.260

JohnnyBoy532:
Honda CR-Z '10:
1:43.929

DigitalBaka:
Audi A2 1.4 '02, "Allroad":
1:45.420

moparisgod #krenkme:
Fiat 500 1.2 8V Lounge SS '08:
1:44.495

Tris_73:
Honda Ballade Sports CR-X 1.5Si '83:
1:44.912

 

[dr_slump]

You're…testing?

Yes, but it's something special.

 

[XDesperado67]

Okay OSE_CAP__SHADOW's cars that I have on share should now have the TCS turned off but please still double check all settings.

Will be in heavy test mode for the next couple of days so you can all expect to start seeing my results posts in the near future.

I should be announcing the end of round 1 This coming Sunday so there is still time if anyone wishes to jump in and test a group or two. Class A especially could use some additional test drivers.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

Okay OSE_CAP__SHADOW's cars that I have on share should now have the TCS turned off but please still double check all settings.

Will be in heavy test mode for the next couple of days so you can all expect to start seeing my results posts in the near future.

I should be announcing the end of round 1 This coming Sunday so there is still time if anyone wishes to jump in and test a group or two. Class A especially could use some additional test drivers.

Hey Despy, quick question. I only have Jack's CR-X left to test, and since his PS3 suffered from some issues, can someone please put his car on share so that I can test it?

 

[Ronald6]

Jack has his CR X on share. Harvey gave him one and Jack tuned it already. It's fun, enjoy.

 

[XDesperado67]

Jack has his CR X on share. Harvey gave him one and Jack tuned it already. It's fun, enjoy.

Hey do you have a BBQ at your place?
If so do you have any plans for next weekend?

 

[XDesperado67]

Test Results
Class A
Note: Used DS3, sensitivity 7 and automatic transmission for all tests. Didn't drive any specific number of laps but gave all tunes approximately 15-20 green laps including several after my listed best time for each tune.
Group 1
XDesperado67//XDesperado67 Daihatsu Mira TR-XX Avanzato R '97, "Pocket Monster Type R"
Laguna Seca 1:45.629 Toscana 2:04.565
Very quick at Laguna Seca the extra power really shows in its acceleration and top speed. Great rotation though it may be a bit loose for some peoples taste. Terrible at Toscana. The lap time is the result of simply using brute force to drag the car around the track. Think environmental groups are currently looking for Ol'Harvey here after the way he tore up the surrounding landscape as this monster seemed determined to hit every shrub and tree out there, usually while going sideways.

krenkme//krenkme Nissan BE-1 '87, "Rana Clamitans"
Laguna Seca 1:49.725 Toscana 2:06.179
Nice drive handles very well on both surfaces, easy to place where wanted. Just lacks the power to really tear things up.

C-ZETA//V16T91 Toyota Yarris F (J) '99
Laguna Seca 1:49.891 Toscana 2:05.762
Feels like it has better power than krenkme's car, unfortunately the car feels heavy and fights rotating on Laguna Seca. Much better on Toscana where the looser surface helps rotation.

Diogo G.//werty_56-1 Daihatsu Cuore Avanzato TR-XX R (J) '97
Laguna Seca 1:50.992 Toscana 2:06.770
One of the gripiest and best handling cars tested so far. At Laguna Seca the transmission seemed to hold the car back more than its very low power. Perhaps using a manual transmission would cure that issue. While feeling a bit looser on Toscana than some I've tested so far it still tracked very well. Toscana definitely showed the lack of power in its times as it just couldn't quite hit the speeds other more powerful cars have.

moparisgod//moparisgod Fiat Panda Super i.e. '90 Note: Hosted by krenkme
Laguna Seca 1:50.149 Toscana 2:07.743
Feels light and quick. Had trouble though placing it where I wanted on track and getting the throttle/brake inputs right. Very loose on Toscana almost as bad as my "Pocket Monster Type R" without the power to help compensate for that lack of grip.

Group 2
ACSR421//acsr421 Daihatsu Copen "D.T." '02
Laguna Seca 1:47.098 Toscana 2:01.236
I wanna be like AC when I grow up! My Mira is a muscle bound thug while this is the martial arts master. Both may knock you out but this does it with grace and style. Excellent grip on both tracks and very easy to drive near the limit. Indeed if there is one "flaw" it's that the car is so easy to drive that it will tempt you into pushing it past its limits. While its cornering prowess can't quite make up the difference in HP at Laguna Seca with my monster, the total package seems almost purpose built at Toscana with the car almost always getting the perfect power to the wheels without excess wheelspin. Simply brilliant tune.

trackripper123//Ziz528 Daihatsu Copen Active Top '02
Laguna Seca 1:45.963 Toscana 2:01.957
While not quite as refined as ACSR's car in terms of grip and the transmission, the extra power is telling at Laguna Seca where it is the only car I've tested so far that can run competitive lap times with my "Pocket Monster Type R". On Toscana ACSR still manages a better time due to his near perfect blend of handling and the drivetrain. Both cars are exceptional and I guess we can all be glad they didn't collaborate on tuning these cars or none of us would have had a chance. Hey guys any way you can put the extra power from trackrippers car on ACSR's handling?

NEWDRIVER2//OTS_NEWDRIVER2 BE-1 '87
Laguna Seca 1:51.502 Toscana 2:05.476
Where's the beef! or in this case where's the power. Handles well at Laguna Seca though there is a slight hint of understeer when pushed to the limit. At Toscana the handling is some of the very best, find a way to keep the handling in tact and give it another 30-40HP and it my be pushing ACSR and trackrippers times at Toscana.

LineR32//LineR32 Kung PAO Micra '89
Laguna Seca 1:50.337 Toscana 2:06.305
Other than being a bit loose on Toscana there isn't really anything I can point to and say that's a problem or that's what's holding the times back.
The car drives fine but just doesn't seem to inspire the driver.

Motor City Hami//MotorCtyHamilton Suzuki Cervo SR '07
Laguna Seca 1:46.547 Toscana 2:00.713
Despite feeling strangely heavy and resistant to rotation at first this car managed some of the highest corner speeds I've seen in this class. Decent top end and acceleration coupled with that incredible grip through the corners made this one of the faster cars at Laguna Seca. The time on Toscana speaks for itself, the car continued to act like it had a 2Js fan sucking it to the ground. While ACSRs car feels like it is just flowing around the track and trackrippers is busy punching it out with its power, this car feels like its wrestling it into submission locking onto the road whether it be tarmac or gravel and refusing to let go.

Group 3
Tris_73//TRIS_73 Suzuki Cervo SR '07
Laguna Seca 1:47.582 Toscana 2:02.930
Great drive feels light and responsive. Unfortunately it comes up a bit short of Motor City Hamilton's giving up a very slight margin in corner speeds and top end due to less power, both becoming more apparent at Toscana. While the way it feels is more my style, its hard to argue with MCH's results.

jollgreen//thelitch77 Daihatsu Sirion CX 2WD (J) '98
Laguna Seca 1:47.468 Toscana 2:03.593
Some of the better power and corresponding top end in the class can't make up for the time lost in corners due to understeer. The car turns in okay while braking but tends to understeer slightly when costing and really pushes wide on throttle. While the looser surface at Toscana helped rotation the car still tends to push wide if you jump on the gas to soon.

OSE_CAP_SHADOW//OSE_CAP__SHADOW HSV Insight Note: Hosted by XDesperado67
Laguna Seca 1:47.798 Toscana 2:03.088
Yet another fast car hampered by understeer. Just couldn't get it around the corners fast enough at Laguna Seca and its excellent acceleration and good top speed weren't enough to compensate for that. Toscana was a different story where I found the rear to be a bit to loose costing me time getting the car back headed in the direction I wanted with all four wheels.

Theo777//Zigatan Honda Insight "Type R" '99
Laguna Seca 1:47.015 Toscana 2:04.346
Lack of grip is what's holding this one back. Turn in and corner exit under throttle are fine but if your going just a hair to fast the tires give up their grip on the track. On Toscana it was very loose, really needed to manage throttle and steering with a light touch. Not the worst handling at Toscana just really required full concentration to get the most out of it.

Jkinealy Daihatsu OFC-1 Concept Note: Hosted by XDesperado67
Laguna Seca 1:53.321 Toscana 2:06.709
No power. There were a couple of cars that had less horsepower but this one showed its lack of power the worst. This was the only car that not only didn't accelerate up the hill to the corkscrew but actually would drop a mph or two even with a perfect turn onto that last uphill stretch. That said the car handles very nicely and is one of the easiest to get consistently good times with a Toscana. That may be partly because of its slower speeds but you almost have to try and get it sliding at Toscana where it provides a very nice drive without demanding total focus from the driver.

 

[Ronald6]

Ok, that's it, I'm done with Group B. See pages 17 and 23 for my final times.

I'm going to take a break and enjoy my fabulous new 'blade. See y'all on Cape Ring. As I go by!

 

[trackripper123]

Thanks Despy and Ronald, you guys have run pretty exceptional times with my Copen and Kusabi.

Despy, the power was a case of adding ballast to allow more power to be added. ACSR can put my parts and ballast settings on his suspension and drivetrain I guess.

 

[Niku Driver HC]

IT'S OVER!

All the cars on group B have been tested. Usual rules apply, page 9 for all the news on your car! Now, to write a few more things...

 

[XDesperado67]

Okay finally got my testing of Class A completed. Will post the round 1 results tomorrow and announce who is going to the final round from each class.

Just to give people a head start here are the final round tracks:
First its a drive in the woods at Eiger Nordwand W Trail.
Then we wrap things up in front of the crowds at Road Course - Daytona.

Great Job everyone and hope you'll stick around for the finals which will start Testing on Wednesday when the tuners that make it have to have their adjusted tunes in by.👍👍

 

[Onboy123]

And Class B? You're testing for that as well, mate.

 

[XDesperado67]

And Class B? You're testing for that as well, mate.

I'll test the cars I swear but in order to not draw things out any longer I'm taking the current test results from both classes we have now and determining the final round.

With only two small groups to test for the finals hopefully we can wrap this up by next Sunday.

 

[Onboy123]

Ohh…I see! Yea, this is taking a bit too long, really.

 

[XDesperado67]

Ohh…I see! Yea, this is taking a bit too long, really.

Might not have been so bad if people like you with short attention spans hadn't gotten distracted by other events and helped to liven this up a bit instead!

 

[trackripper123]

...I forgot there was a 2nd round.

 

[XDesperado67]

...I forgot there was a 2nd round.

Pretty sure you made it with both your entries along with ACSR so you'll get another shot to square off with him.

 

[trackripper123]

Pretty sure you made it with both your entries along with ACSR so you'll get another shot to square off with him.

That's what I'm worried about.

Same cars presumably, just tweaked settings?

 

[Onboy123]

Might not have been so bad if people like you with short attention spans hadn't gotten distracted by other events and helped to liven this up a bit instead!

I'd help…but since ACSR and Trackripper have got this in the bag with the Cheese Car Kusabi, I just sort of…didn't bother with it. I didn't feel this was as good as the first one to begin with, and with those two cars just walking pass the field, it just lost me there and then, really.

 

[XDesperado67]

That's what I'm worried about.

Same cars presumably, just tweaked settings?

Yes same cars but your free to do anything to the tune you want.
Also just like the first round you only get one tune for both tracks which should prove interesting as Road Course - Daytona has a couple very high speed sections while Eiger Nordwand W trail is even hillier and rougher than Toscana.

 

[Ronald6]

There's no way I can complete all of Group A by then. It takes me too long to load the cars. Sorry.

 

[NEWDRIVER2]

Okay finally got my testing of Class A completed. Will post the round 1 results tomorrow and announce who is going to the final round from each class.

Just to give people a head start here are the final round tracks:
First its a drive in the woods at Eiger Nordwand W Trail.
Then we wrap things up in front of the crowds at Road Course - Daytona.

Great Job everyone and hope you'll stick around for the finals which will start Testing on Wednesday when the tuners that make it have to have their adjusted tunes in by.👍👍

Thank you XDesperado for hosting this shootout its perfect shootout with this greet Drivers .i hope next shootout i already prepare for it thanks again mate :-) .