Washington Redskins Name Controversy

[FoolKiller]

There is, as I understand it.



Source.

Here's the wiki on Brandenburg .vs. Ohio, I think this is where the common test for immediacy is based.

I greatly prefer the US approach on this, incidentally

Um, if you can't see the clear difference between being offensive and trying to incite violence I can't help you.

Language that incites violence or illegal activity is illegal, yes. But that exists outside of hate speech. No hate speech is required. You are calling criminal inciting of violence, which just happens to use hate speech as a tool, criminal hate speech. It is criminal with or without the criminal hate speech.

Nice try, but it was pretty obvious that isn't what you meant.

Oh yeah, from your source.

The Court held that government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless that speech is directed to inciting, and is likely to incite, imminent lawless action.[1]

I can drop an N bomb on TV and not be arrested, and even avoid any government action if it is on cable or any other paid form of television.

 

[TenEightyOne]

@FoolKiller, the bar's explanation (borne out by the case I linked) was

a person cannot utter a racial or ethnic epithet to another if those words are likely to cause the listener to react violently

Walking up to an asian man in the street and calling him a Paki would surely be exactly that in certain circumstances? The same is true of walking up to a black man in the street and calling him a ******; in certain circumstances it's perfectly obvious to expect a retaliatory response, whether you do it on TV or not.

 

[FoolKiller]

@FoolKiller, the bar's explanation (borne out by the case I linked) was



Walking up to an asian man in the street and calling him a Paki would surely be exactly that in certain circumstances? The same is true of walking up to a black man in the street and calling him a ******; in certain circumstances it's perfectly obvious to expect a retaliatory response, whether you do it on TV or not.

But the if exists. It is the burden of the court to prove that as my intent.

 

[TenEightyOne]

But the if exists. It is the burden of the court to prove that as my intent.

True.

 

[LeMansAid]

@TenEightyOne When I say "across the board" I don't mean this forum. I'm referring to distinctions made by people in general. I do wonder if America's guilt is so big that they want the rest of the world share in it though. GTP was always merely a case in point for me.

 

[Keef]

Somebody at Skyvector doesn't like the name much either.

 

[Joel]

 

[Keef]

^ People, this dude is from France and he's not even a fa.....aaaantastically happy guy! That's it!

 

[LeMansAid]

Terry Rambler, an Apache campaigner against the use of the Redskins name for the sports team went hammer and tongs on a black face get up recently - http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-34735213

Apparently he's now campaigning against the Houston Hypocrites lacrosse team's name and choice of sport.*

* Note - he is not, and that team does not exist.

 

[Adamgp]

Semi related so I'll put it here.

The Chicago Blackhawks have proposed a change to their logo:

 

[Johnnypenso]

I always thought it was an epic fail when someone seriously analyzes comedy.

 

[Joel]

I always thought it was an epic fail when someone seriously analyzes comedy.

I don't think it's really going after Louis C.K. so much as the people who use his comedy as license to use that word.

 

[Northstar]

Semi related so I'll put it here.

The Chicago Blackhawks have proposed a change to their logo:

I think the proposed new one is a big improvement. Granted I never liked the current one so it's not hard for me to say that.

 

[LeMansAid]

Semi related so I'll put it here.

The Chicago Blackhawks have proposed a change to their logo:

I think it looks great, but what if someone takes offense to it being Native American themed?

 

[HELLAFLUSH240SX]

They absolutely should not change the Hawks logo. It is Ok'd by the Blackhawks tribe and it was originally a sign for the owners Army platoon I believe.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Semi related so I'll put it here.

The Chicago Blackhawks have proposed a change to their logo:

I like how the Native animorphed, like it's still him just in hawk form.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Semi related so I'll put it here.

The Chicago Blackhawks have proposed a change to their logo:

No. That's my vote.

 

[Com Fox]

Semi related so I'll put it here.

The Chicago Blackhawks have proposed a change to their logo:

While I lack any NHL knowledge. I honestly think the logo is really good and sticks to the "hawk" name without tarnishing the tribe as it still has all the bits and pieces of it.

 

[Liquid]

makes me think the entire thing is just AstroTurfing from people with nothing better to do with their time.

Just to drag things way back to page one but who exactly is, or would be, doing the AstroTurfing in this context?

 

[Adamgp]

While I lack any NFL knowledge. I honestly think the logo is really good and sticks to the "hawk" name without tarnishing the tribe as it still has all the bits and pieces of it.

The Chicago Blackhawks are an NHL hockey team, not NFL.

 

[Com Fox]

The Chicago Blackhawks are an NHL hockey team, not NFL.

It was actually a typo

I'll go and edit it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

The Chicago Blackhawks are an NHL hockey team, not NFL.

When he said he lacked NFL knowledge he wasn't kidding

 

[Joel]

I like the proposed new Blackhawks logo (it's not an official team thing, it was a fan/artist somewhere who came up with it). I don't really mind the existing one either and I think Blackhawks or Braves is different than Redskins or Indians, but I have a hard time believing people would be OK with the current Blackhawks logo if they were a new franchise.

That's really what it comes down to for me, I have a really hard time believing anyone would be OK with "Cleveland Indians", "Washington Redskins", or the Blackhawks logo if they were new teams. But because they've been around a while it's more normalized.

I think it looks great, but what if someone takes offense to it being Native American themed?

I don't think that would be an issue because it's not disparaging. There's a lot of controversy around the Cleveland Indians (MLB) and the Washington Redskins, but there's another MLB team called the Atlanta Braves, and an NFL team called the Kansas City Chiefs which don't really get talked about either.

The issue with Redskins and Indians isn't so much that they're related to Native imagery, but that they're related to slurs in the case of Redskins or an absurd caricature of a logo with the Indians. Cleveland has also been distancing itself from their old logo which I think is a big difference.

 

[FoolKiller]

Make your mascot a Confederate soldier and you are glorifying racists.

Make your mascot a Native American and you are insulting their people.


Can someone get me a politically correct dictionary, please? I'm having trouble keeping up.

 

[Dennisch]

Make your mascot a Confederate soldier and you are glorifying racists.

Make your mascot a Native American and you are insulting their people.

Can someone get me a politically correct dictionary, please? I'm having trouble keeping up.

Laaaahaaaaand of the freeeeeeeeeeeeeee and hoooooooooomeeeeeeee of the offended!

 

[Exorcet]

an absurd caricature of a logo with the Indians. Cleveland has also been distancing itself from their old logo which I think is a big difference.

Why is a caricature by itself a problem? It's supposed to be absurd by its nature.

I still don't really see much difference between teams with this theme and themes that take after Vikings, Romans, etc.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Why is a caricature by itself a problem? It's supposed to be absurd by its nature.

I still don't really see much difference between teams with this theme and themes that take after Vikings, Romans, etc.

They'd probably be offended too if they were still around

 

[BobK]

I suppose it's just a matter of time before the animal rights activists get in on the act, taking offense from the Marlins, Dolphins, Cardinals, Bears, Cubs, Eagles, etc, and of course the Blackhawks.

 

[Liquid]

I suppose it's just a matter of time before the animal rights activists get in on the act, taking offense from the Marlins, Dolphins, Cardinals, Bears, Cubs, Eagles, etc, and of course the Blackhawks.

*African-Americanhawks

Please.

 

[Dennisch]

The Giants are next.