Webster. NY Fire and Shooting's

[a6m5]

M16 is an assault rifle, AR-15 is not. What was the proof you saw that confirms that this wasn't just another AR rifle, but M16?

Edit: All articles on Bing News Search that mentions the type of rifle says that it was either Bushmaster, or semi-automatic. Did Bushmaster ever make a M16?

I guess the press could be wrong, but not one of them mentions a M16, which I think had full-auto, three round burst and semi-automatic.

 

[Slash]

I was told that upon further investigation that was the weapon that was used. From the angle I saw it at, it would be difficult to tell as it was leaning up a bit hidden behind the shotgun against the tree (I could make out the barrel all the way to the trigger but not the stock), but this information is literally coming off of one of the SWAT members that was there. The photos were shot right after the man was confirmed dead, the body hadn't even been removed from the premises yet. Ask yourself, why would I make this up, especially if I was told by my own family that was on the scene solving the situation? I'm prettys ure he wouldn't lie to me about something like this, especially as I have an M16 on my property and we are all avid hunters and gun owners. Surely that would be more reliable than a news source, although you guys wouldn't actually know. But I'm being legit here.

M16's are not always full auto. At most you'll get a 3 round burst. The own we have is semi-automatic only. I also have an AR-15 as well.

The weapon was definitely semi-automatic, you can also heargunshots in in the transcript on YouTube. Yes Bushmaster does make an M16 model too.

 

[a6m5]

I was told that upon further investigation that was the weapon that was used. From the angle I saw it at, it would be difficult to tell as it was leaning up a bit hidden behind the shotgun against the tree (I could make out the barrel all the way to the trigger but not the stock), but this information is literally coming off of one of the SWAT members that was there. The photos were shot right after the man was confirmed dead, the body hadn't even been removed from the premises yet. Ask yourself, why would I make this up, especially if I was told by my own family that was on the scene solving the situation? Surely that would be more reliable that a news source, although you guys wouldn't actually know. But I'm being legit here.

Well, if this info was true, it will make a huge news, because M16 has full-automatic, and requires Class III license. This guy probably was prohibited to own any types of firearm, let alone genuine assault rifle.

 

[Slash]

I'm sure he was prohibited from owning any firearm. Like I said though. I saw the weapon and was told it was an M16, and from the looks of it, I'm positive that's exactly what it was. M16's can have fully automatic but as far as I know upon purchase you are required by law to get them locked similar to AK-47's mechanisms. At least that's what I thought. The photgraph was a bit tough to make out though, but I was told it was an M16, no one ever mentioned anything about an AR-15. I'm only passing along information.

And even if I am wrong, the round size was confirmed to be a .223 caliber, and there are plenty of guns that shoot that round. The 2 weapons look very similar but that was all I heard was M16 repeatedly.

Also, I edited my last post.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

How did this guy get a class 3 gun if he's a felon? Hell, how did this guy get ANY gun with his record and why the hell did the prison system let him out? This could have been prevented 30 years ago by charging him with murder & not a plea for 2nd degree manslaughter.

All thus just goes to show that criminals do not follow laws and the govt doesn't enforce law to its full extent.

But the media doesn't care about that; it's the evil "assault rifle" and hi-cap "clips" which are the problem...as if its OK to shoot a lot of people so long as you're inconvenienced with a mag change or 2. Kill 30 without a reload? Bad. Kill 30 with 2 mag changes, well, you're a victim of society or something. I really don't understand the rationale of weapon bans.

 

[Slash]

Something called the black market I would think. If someone wants a gun, they will find a way to get one, no matter what it takes. Take the information as you will, it's just what I was told today.

 

[a6m5]

Oh, I know that you are just passing on the info that you heard. 👍

I'm just saying, M16 is a very rare gun to civilians. Crazed gunman armed with a M16 would be HUGE news.

That is all.

Edit: Not about "how", or blackmarket. There are no background checks on private sale(used) in a State like Oregon. I do agree with the left that loop hole needs to be looked at.

Edit2: Having said that, black market is a possibility. From what I understand though, blackmarket guns are spendy.

 

[Slash]

Oh, I know that you are just passing on the info that you heard. 👍

I'm just saying, M16 is a very rare gun to civilians. Crazed gunman armed with a M16 would be HUGE news.

That is all.

Haha right. I really am just passing on information after the conversation that took place with me today and the photos I saw from earlier. I'd belive a family member who actually was there over a news sources any day. I wouldn't say the M16 is a rare gun to own at all though to be honest. I know quite a few people that own M16's that shoot only semi-auto.

And isnt't it big news that it happend anyways?


EDIT: Quite Google search shows Bushmaster made semi-auto M16's that shoot the .223 round pre-ban. Now the black market is really starting to make me wonder if that's where he got it from especially for around $800.

 

[Grayfox]

The shotgun was no ordinary shotgun either, it was full fledged Miliitary equipped

Combat shotguns are nasty.

 

[Slash]

Combat shotguns are nasty.

It was black with a synthetic stock (everything was synthetic) and it looked like it was a pump action but I didn't see the image long enough to really tell. Most of it was covered with belts full of un-used shotgun shells. Think it had a scope or sight or something on it but it was facing away from me so it was difficult to tell. Closest thing I can think of is the Remington 870 MCS like the one from BF3.

 

[a6m5]

Combat shotguns are nasty.

It was black with a synthetic stock (everything was synthetic) and it looked like it was a pump action but I didn't see the image long enough to really tell. Most of it was covered with belts full of un-used shotgun shells. Think it had a scope or sight or something on it but it was facing away from me so it was difficult to tell. Closest thing I can think of is the Remington 870 MCS like the one from BF3.

It was reportedly a Mossberg. What can a military Mossberg do that my civilian Remington 870 can't?

 

[Slash]

It may have been a Mossberg, I don't really know. It was defnitely decked out though.


EDIT: Just heard that they are investigating several recent gun thefts in the area as well, maybe that was how he got them.

 

[a6m5]

Shotguns are shotguns, unless it was a fully automatic one. You can rapid fire semi-autos, and some can be reloaded faster with detachable magazines, but pump actions are just as deadly, and probably more reliable.

Unless we are talking about fully automatic shotgun, types of load used(buck, slugs, etc.) is going to make the actual difference. Military/combat style reference is probably irrelevant.

 

[Slash]

Shotguns are shotguns, unless it was a fully automatic one. You can rapid fire semi-autos, and some can be reloaded faster with detachable magazines, but pump actions are just as deadly, and probably more reliable.

Unless we are talking about fully automatic shotgun, types of load used(buck, slugs, etc.) is going to make the actual difference. Military/combat style reference is probably irrelevant.

Yeah it was definitely not fully automatic. If anything it was pump action, and I'm 99% sure that's what it was.

Maybe not relevant but it was definitely interesting. But man, I cannot beleive how loaded this guy was. Wow.

 

[Joel]

Which is exactly the point of my statement.

Fuel for the fire.

Whoops. I was on the app and I didn't see your location. Not to generalize but I probably would have picked up on the tongue in cheek post if I could see that.

It was reportedly a Mossberg. What can a military Mossberg do that my civilian Remington 870 can't?

Look tacticool?

 

[a6m5]

I am a total tactitool.

Don't judge!

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Ya, apologies.... I forget that sarcasm is lost if not directly spelled out sometimes.

And the AR-15 is indeed an assault rifle(at the very least several variants of it were classified as assault weapons under the 94 assault weapons ban); the only difference between it and a military issued M16 is the fire selection (and subsequently trigger assembly, etc.). Otherwise they are practically identical.

Civilian AR-15's (or any other typical rifle built around the M16/M4) have safe/semi-auto; military M16/M4's have safe, semi, and typically burst (some do indeed come full auto)... regardless it takes about 30 seconds and a pair of needle nose pliers to turn a semi-auto/burst M16/4 into fully automatic. I carried an M4 in the Marines; I make love to that weapon... blindfolded.

Google and a civilian AR-15 = quick full auto rifle.

 

[a6m5]

And the AR-15 is indeed an assault rifle(at the very least several variants of it were classified as assault weapons under the 94 assault weapons ban)

No, it is not. I think you got the assault rifles & assault weapons mixed up.

Assault rifle is a technical name, and does not include semi-automatic rifles like AR-15s. Media often mistaken it for assault rifles, but make no mistake, they most definitely are not assault rifles.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

No, it is not. I think you got the assault rifles & assault weapons mixed up.

Assault rifle is a technical name, and does not include semi-automatic rifles like AR-15s. Media often mistaken it for assault rifles, but make no mistake, they most definitely are not assault rifles.

I could care less what terms the media throws around.

When you can do this:



By simply swapping the stock... it is an assault rifle.

 

[a6m5]

It's one thing to consider something to be an assault rifle, and another to declare something to be an assault rifle. If you have an opinion, I couldn't care less about that & you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

Also, the term media actually mistakenly throw around is "assault rifle". Not for the same reason you consider ARs to be assault rifles, but because they look identical.

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Oh boy, thanks for giving me permission to have an opinion!

Again, I am not concerned with what the media says or does.

 

[a6m5]

Wow. I guess we are done here.

 

[Zenith]

Assault Rifle = Gun that fires rifle rounds in burst or automatic fire.

Assault Weapon = Term coined by news people and policy makers to describe a gun that has no purpose other than to kill. In the 1994 ban this included guns with pistol grips and barrel shrouds among other features. "Assault Weapon" has no set definition. It means different things to different people.

One is a technical term, one is closer to a marketing term.

An M16 is an assault rifle. It fires a rifle round and is capable of burst or automatic fire. It is also considered by many to be an assault weapon because it has a pistol grip, detachable magazine, adjustable butt stock, and flash hider.

An AR-15 is the design that the military adopted as the M16. In modern parlance it is the civilian version of the M16. It is not an assault rifle because it is not capable of burst or automatic fire. It is considered by many to be an "assault weapon" because it has a pistol grip, detachable magazine, adjustable butt stock, and flash hider.

Trying to be as clear as possible here. You might not care what the media says, that doesn't mean you get to redefine technical terms as you please. You don't get to rename all bicycles as cars just because a few people slap training wheels and attach a small engine to their bike. "Assault Rifle" is a technical term. An AR-15 is not an Assault Rifle. The end.

Edit: @Slidefire Stock

Those are in a grey area in the law and are only legal in select places. Some consider it an assault rifle others, do not.

The AR-15 design does not include a Slidefire Stock. An AR-15 with a Slidefire stock has deviated from the specifications in the AR-15 design.

In short, that gun is as much an AR-15 as a Mazda MX5 with a small block V8 is an MX5.

 

[Lissa]

My thoughts are with the families of these firefighters.

My father was a firefighter for 15 years, and we all knew there was a possibility that he could die doing his job, but it was never even considered that he could be murdered. It took the London riots of the early 80's to change that point of view, when rioters attacked members of all three emergency services. I can see why the police would be a target in those situations, but firefighters and ambulance drivers too?

It's a messed up world.

 

[Grayfox]

but firefighters and ambulance drivers too?

There have been calls for Australian ambulance drivers to be armed as at times they have been attacked by drunken idiots(mainly on friday in kings cross).

 

[Slash]

It's pretty much to the point now where if someone considers something to be an assault rifle, then it is one.

 

[Cale]

Rochester guy che king in.

Lots of speculation that he killed his sister, and did what he did to protect the evidence.

Just started reading through the thread and what I said has already been said.

 

[sumbrownkid]

Well one can say "high-powered" rifle and skirt the whole "assault" title altogether.

 

[a6m5]

Well one can say "high-powered" rifle and skirt the whole "assault" title altogether.

That also sounds ridiculous, but I guess it's less wrong. It is higher power than a .22 long rifle, or handguns.

 

[sumbrownkid]

That also sounds ridiculous, but I guess it's less wrong. It is higher power than a .22 long rifle, or handguns.

That's what happens when you have a friend that tells you how he writes up reports to his CO.