Week 106 - Beetle Powered!

[Sjaak]

T1 24.756
T2 56.300
T3 1'11.958

Don't ask me for advice,I have troubles enough to keep the car on speed.

 

[NielsG]

25.198
56.475
1'11.658

My problem is the usual lack of consistency. It's very hard for me to hit all the rumbles in the same lap. Especially the long right sweeper before T2 is giving me a hard time. I find it very difficult to stay on that rumble. Hope it'll get better, when I get a little more used to the handling of the RUF.

 

[Tedehur]

...Especially the long right sweeper before T2 is giving me a hard time. I find it very difficult to stay on that rumble. Hope it'll get better, when I get a little more used to the handling of the RUF.

I find it difficult too to carry enough speed through this one.
Usually I shift down to 3rd with a very small braking and stay on the rumble strip at about 155-160 km/h and shift into 4th on T2 line.

 

[StrokerAce]

on that rumble before t2 i shifted down a gear and to about 90mph(sorry dont use kmh) the downshift gives the car more hp to pull around the turn, and ride a bit smoother i noticed.

 

[Tedehur]

on that rumble before t2 i shifted down a gear and to about 90mph(sorry dont use kmh) the downshift gives the car more hp to pull around the turn, and ride a bit smoother i noticed.

90 mph is 145 km/h. I try to stay above 155 km/h, that is 96 mph.
I use in this turn a strict outside/inside/outside technique except that the car has to stay on the inside rumble strip for a long time, which is the tricky part.

Seen T1 at 24.301 but wasted it in the right-hander quoted above

 

[NielsG]

I find it difficult too to carry enough speed through this one.
Usually I shift down to 3rd with a very small braking and stay on the rumble strip at about 155-160 km/h and shift into 4th on T2 line.

on that rumble before t2 i shifted down a gear and to about 90mph(sorry dont use kmh) the downshift gives the car more hp to pull around the turn, and ride a bit smoother i noticed.

Thanks guys.

Been doing it both with and with out the little brake at the start, but it's really one of those, who is extremely difficult to be talked through. I fear, I have to do a lot of laps and find the feeling myself. Had a small session this morning and I'm hitting it a little more consistent now.

Now I just need to hit all the rumbles in the same lap.

BTW Great splits, Cyril. 👍 I'll have to struggle just to keep you in sight on the straights. And amazing T1 .The best I've seen is 24.59x

 

[Tedehur]

BTW Great splits, Cyril. 👍 I'll have to struggle just to keep you in sight on the straights. And amazing T1 .The best I've seen is 24.59x

Don't worry Niels, you know that I don't practise much and I usually run my best time in the 20 first laps. The rest is all wasted trying to nail a perfect lap.
Since I'll have to submit sunday evening, chances are I'll submit my 1'10.8 with a poor final sector.
You should pass me again this week thanks to your efforts.

 

[Sjaak]

Update

24.533
56.105
1'11.362

Btw Luxy,great you still doing the leaderboard. 👍

For our new wrs members http://www.luxy.ca/wrs/leaderboard/106


Btw2 StrokerAce,what a fast t1.
Are you sure you have 2 tires on the track all the time?
Just asking

 

[Tedehur]

I've now been running this for perhaps 15 laps and the frustration is already beginning to build! Seems whatever I do, the car decides to lose ALL grip what so ever and gently and inevetebly slide off the track with nothing I can do about it. 👎 Now I know it's my driving and that the car is most certainly great, I just can't seem to get along with it..

Although I have just yesterday swiched from buttons to right analog stick (accel/break) so that probably slows me down quite a bit aswell.. 💡

Anyway, if someone has a fantastic tip to teach me to drive the car, please throw me a bone!

Progress so far:

T1: 0'25.570
T2: 0'57.269
T3: 1'12.312

Cheers!

Looking at your T times, I don't find anything I could say to help : there is no sector where you lose more time more than on others. You lose a few time on each sector.
However, if I should remember only one thing from what I learned in the WRS, it would be :brake early.
If you brake early, you have time to point your car towards the apex and you can re-accelerate early, which will increase your average speed in the next sector.
If you brake late, you're focused on braking, you miss the apex, you re-accelerate late (or even worse, you have to brake a second time) and your lap is wasted.
I'm still struggling against my natural tendancy to brake as late as possible, and when I manage to brake early, I can see a big difference.

Then, on this particular track, you need to ride the rumble strips as much as possible : this will straighten your driving line and you'll save a lot of time.
If you can avoid both grass and dirt, that is.

If these don't help, well... just keep on practising.


Edit :
I can't tell for StrokerAce's T1 and T2 but for the rest of Luxy's board, there are 2 typos for sure : Sjaak and PanzerFaust T3 are definitely not about 1'02.

 

[Consigliere]

I see I have been given an unfair advantage on the leader board.. Just had to look back so that the type o wasn't mine..

@ Flat-out, yes I guess you're right in what you say with early breaking and I also think that's particulary important with this car. Atleast it seems that way to me.. I still have some problems with getting used to the right analog stick for breaking and accelerating.. I might try a different setup although I like the extra control I get when accelerating with the analog.. Other than that, I just need track time! 👍 A LOT of it..

Cheers!

 

[Luxy]

I see I have been given an unfair advantage on the leader board.. Just had to look back so that the type o wasn't mine.. Cheers!

Fixored!

Sorry the leaderboard hasn't been getting update at all regularly, it's been a crazy week for me IRL, no time for the WRS or GT4

 

[Consigliere]

Fixored!

Great, so I'm back in my division again..

@Luxy BTW I just love your avatar.. Cracks me up everytime.. 👍

EDIT:

FINALLY made some improvment on today's lap 13 (!).. For me it's all in the long right hander before T2.. I did go down to 3rd but it may be faster to stay in 4th.. Quite a good last sector too.. Broke my goal by quite a bit..

T1 0'25.151 (seen 24.85x)
T2 0'56.727
T2 1'11.999

Happy again. But there's alot more work to do if I want a GOOD time..

Cheers!

 

[Tedehur]

I still have some problems with getting used to the right analog stick for breaking and accelerating.. I might try a different setup although I like the extra control I get when accelerating with the analog.. Other than that, I just need track time! 👍 A LOT of it..

Cheers!

I said earlier that it took me 2 years to discover that the right stick could be used for gas/brake, but I only use it on Colin McRae 3, for fun.
I find it too sensitive to be used in GT3 : whether I brake or accelerate, I put the pedal down to the metal so the buttons are OK.


As far as racing is concerned, I ran another bunch of laps between 1'10.9 and 1'11.2 including one with a lap time faster than my current best, but the chicane (turns 2 and 3) doesn't look clean at first sight. It might be if I take a closer look, but I don't wanna submit something which is not clearly clean.
2 more practice sessions available before I submit my time.

 

[Consigliere]

I said earlier that it took me 2 years to discover that the right stick could be used for gas/brake, but I only use it on Colin McRae 3, for fun.
I find it too sensitive to be used in GT3 : whether I brake or accelerate, I put the pedal down to the metal so the buttons are OK.

I'm still getting used to it.. Didn't really like to use the stick for both so right now I'm using it for gas only and break with the X.. Might seem werid but works fairly well for me.. (I know you can't tell that from my times though! )
Updated my times above too!

Cheers!

 

[StrokerAce]

Btw2 StrokerAce,what a fast t1.
Are you sure you have 2 tires on the track all the time?
Just asking

yup thats whats surprising, on the licence run race there i practiced how to get through that t1 chicane by barely clipping the rumbles with the tires, i barely clipped them, by the hair of my chinny chin chin it worked, but that is my only fast part on the track it seems. You guys go mush faster in the esses before t3 and around the long turn before t2.
FOr reassureance im gonna double, triple quad check again if my tires stayed on track, if not i have a back up lap, but if it were not for sidewalls, i wuouldnt have that t1

 

[Tedehur]

yup thats whats surprising, on the licence run race there i practiced how to get through that t1 chicane by barely clipping the rumbles with the tires, i barely clipped them, by the hair of my chinny chin chin it worked, but that is my only fast part on the track it seems. You guys go mush faster in the esses before t3 and around the long turn before t2.
FOr reassureance im gonna double, triple quad check again if my tires stayed on track, if not i have a back up lap, but if it were not for sidewalls, i wuouldnt have that t1

The rules say that you must have 2 tyres in contact with the track, which means you can have 2 wheels in the dirt and 2 wheels touching the rumble strip by only the skin of a tooth and still have a clean lap.
However, some of us usually discard those laps which are too much "on the edge" and only submit 100% clean laps.

You can double and triple check it of course, and you can also ask for somebody else's advice. I can read PAL replays (.xps files) and give my opinion, but I guess you're using the NTSC version so it won't fit.

Anyway, even if the first chicane is "on the edge", a T1 at 24.0 deserves at least 3 👍 👍 👍

 

[StrokerAce]

yes i just re watched the replay my "fast lap" wasnt my lap where i skinned the chicane i typoed the t1 time i meant 25.XXX

 

[NielsG]

As far as racing is concerned, I ran another bunch of laps between 1'10.9 and 1'11.2 including one with a lap time faster than my current best, but the chicane (turns 2 and 3) doesn't look clean at first sight. It might be if I take a closer look, but I don't wanna submit something which is not clearly clean.
2 more practice sessions available before I submit my time.

If you don't get anything better, I can check it for you, so you can get a second opinion. I understand your concern, but on the other hand it's also stupid to ditch a lap there may be perfectly clean.

Well, of course you need to trust me, not to chase your ghost.

 

[TheWizard]

After 10-15 laps, here are my (not so good) split times:

T1: 0'25.138
T2: 0'57.061
T3: 1'12.463

I will try to improve some more later. I can definitely see a T1 under 25 seconds. I will be happy with my time whenver I manage to get to a T3 below 1'12.000.

The Wizard.

 

[NielsG]

A minor update:

24.604
56.229
1'11.319

 

[TheWizard]

Well, it looks like I am going to lower my goal time by a little bit more, as getting into the 24's for T1 and 1'11's for T3 barely took me 5 or 6 more laps.

T1: 0'24.714
T2: 0'56.286
T3: 1'11.226

Now I am aming for a 1'10.xxx for T3

The Wizard.

 

[Tedehur]

If you don't get anything better, I can check it for you, so you can get a second opinion. I understand your concern, but on the other hand it's also stupid to ditch a lap there may be perfectly clean.
Well, of course you need to trust me, not to chase your ghost.

Thanks Niels, but that lap is only 0.12 faster than my current best and I don't think I'll take a second look at all.
As for chasing my ghost, I'm certain you'll be ahead of me before the week-end is over... as always
If I X-port it I'll send it to you anyway.

Edit :
Improved again my best lap time, by 0.170
Yet, the new T3 is worse (+0.270) than previously :
T1 = 24.538
T2 = 55.946
T3 = 1'11.123

Immediately after this lap I wasted a 24.227 and the next lap I wasted a 1'10.853 🤬
One more evening to improve.

 

[TheWizard]

Tonight (or should I say this morning, since it's 3AM here?!) I am not having any luck improving my previous time. I had a not-so-great night with some friends of mine, and I was trying to let off some steam by running a few laps for WRS 106, before finally hitting the bed.

It looks like that time has come - I have been chasing my ghost for the past 40 minutes, and there is no sign of improvement, at least not any time soon.

No point in wasting sleep over it. I will try some more tomorrow, with a more focused point of view - I have too many things in my mind right now - then I will do my classic rush-hour between 11PM and submission time, Monday night.

I am sure nobody will care about my whine - but it helps when you let it out

The Wizard.

 

[Tedehur]

I am sure nobody will care about my whine - but it helps when you let it out

That's the good thing with forums : you can tell your story even if nobody listens. Good therapy, and much cheaper than a shrink.
See you at the finish line. I expect this week to be really close between us, div 2 drivers.

 

[TheWizard]

That's the good thing with forums : you can tell your story even if nobody listens. Good therapy, and much cheaper than a shrink.
See you at the finish line. I expect this week to be really close between us, div 2 drivers.

Yeah, it looks like it's going to be pretty close between me and you, as you have pretty much the same T3 that I have. My goal would be getting a 1'10.8xx, I know it's possible, I just don't know if I am going to make it with the time allotted and college work in between.

Shrinks are quite useless, unless that particular shrink is one of the girls that you usually see in psychology classes - then it might be worth going

I don't know about your college, but here girls that are into psychology are smoking hot

Now, I am going to have to go to bed for real. Else I'll spend the night here

Tomorrow is another day...

The Wizard.

 

[Consigliere]

Another improvement on my part!

T1 0'25.008
T2 0'56.534
T3 1'11.805

And shaved another big chunk off my laptime thanks to a great last turn..

I have seen a T1 of 24.6, a T2 of 56.2 and a T3 of 1'11.6 (on the same lap!) but I threw it all away by sliding into the kitty litter in the last turn.. Oh well.. I think I'm beginning to reach my limit since I'm not sure I can be bothered with trying again..

Cheers!

 

[NielsG]

Thanks Niels, but that lap is only 0.12 faster than my current best and I don't think I'll take a second look at all.
As for chasing my ghost, I'm certain you'll be ahead of me before the week-end is over... as always
If I X-port it I'll send it to you anyway.

Edit :
Improved again my best lap time, by 0.170
Yet, the new T3 is worse (+0.270) than previously :
T1 = 24.538
T2 = 55.946
T3 = 1'11.123

Immediately after this lap I wasted a 24.227 and the next lap I wasted a 1'10.853 🤬
One more evening to improve.

Don't bother to send anything to me. I don't wanna download anymore GT3 replays. Only if it could be helpful to you.

And with your edit, it doesn't look like it's necessary anymore.

Good to see that you investing some time in racing again. 👍 I for sure can't beat you, with the extra effort you put in.

 

[Tedehur]

Seen a 24.021 but the first turn was too wide and I had 4 wheels off in the grass.
It's definitely possible to run a clean 24.0 but I won't have time for that. I'm afraid I'll have to submit my current best (T3 1'11.123) which is a pity because I know I can be a whole second faster.
If only I could run all my best sectors in the same clean lap.

 

[TheWizard]

If only I could run all my best sectors in the same clean lap.

I know the feeling, flat-out
I have been trying (again) for the past hour, but I can't seem to be able to do the first section between Start and T1 as good as I did it the first few laps, therefore the closest I have come to my T3 was 1'11.5xx. It just seems I 'nailed' all the sections as 'good' as I could possibly have, in that lap that I posted previously. In other words, I reached my limit for this course + car combination, at the current level of skills. This will most definitely put me in the middle of Division 2, like usual.

It's getting a little bit frustrating. Seeing that I have not improved much since the week (WRS 100) I joined, that is.

I read a post of yours, a while ago, which kinda makes me feel like I will be doomed to this average status, for the rest of my WRS career. Your post stated the following (took me a while to find it):

(...) I've been racing in the WRS for more than 30 weeks and I'm still a div 2 racer.
The difference is that instead of racing 50 laps to submit a time, I only need now 20 laps to submit the same time.
Practice is not all that is required.
You can play GT3 24/7 and still be a solid second slower than the top racers.
(...) For the rest, fast drivers remain fast drivers and slow drivers remain slow drivers regardless of how much they practice.

I seem to have reached that point already. The first few weeks, it would take me 5 or 6 hours of cumulative game play in order to submit my final times. Now I get my 'personal best' in the first hour of gameplay (unless the car needs to be broken in, then it would take me 'break-in time + one hour'). All time spent after that, is pretty much useless, because I can maybe improve one section and then 🤬-up the rest, and even when I manage to 'string it all together' again, the final time would only improve by 0.300 at the most, and that would be after 30 or 40 or 50 more laps.

So, is it worth it? Is the 'time spent racing' to 'lap time improvement' an efficient number? From an engineering point of view the answer is 'most definitely no'. Here is a classic (short) example, that would explain the previous statement. You (as an engineer) are working on a problem that involves solving a difficult equation (with a lot of variables and terms that can be taken into account) and are presented with the following choice: solve it analytically (with pencil and paper and math and calculus) or solve it numerically (with the aid of computational software). The analytical solution will give you the exact answer (provided the equation can be solved analytically, that is); the numerical solution will give you a (pretty darn close) approximation. The analytical solution could take up to hours of work; the numerical solution can take up to a few seconds/minutes (depending on the processing power and the level of accuracy needed).

Is hours versus minutes worth it, just to get an answer that is 0.001% to 0.1% more accurate? Absolutely no. Your boss will fire you on the spot, because you have just wasted an entire afternoon trying to figure out analytically something that a computer would have done in a few seconds, with (technically speaking) the same outcome.

Wow - the 'short' example turned out to be quite long, instead. I hope you all will excuse me for the off-topicness, but I was just trying to state the original point:

Is running up to 50 more laps to improve a time that you can (rather) easily get during the first 20 laps, by just 0.200 - 0.300 seconds worth the extra time?

I think the answer to this would generally be 'No'.
If you don't have anything better to do, then, why not, sure, go for it.

But, looking at my previous results, that extra 0.300 would only improve my final position in the 'WRS ### Results' thread by one or two spots at the most. If I was competing for the podium, then those one or two extra spots would be definitely worth the time. Being in the middle of the pack as I currently am, it really doesn't make any difference.

Anybody else here use the same philosophy? Does this make sense to anybody else?

I would like to hear some opinions on how you all race here/what type of 'strategy' you all use...

Sorry of the lenght of the post

The Wizard.

 

[Sjaak]

I think flat-out is right.
There are very few racers who significant improve.
Look at me,present from week 79,and still battling with the same guys.
Truly,that makes the wrs one of a kind.Competing with people who are just as fast as me.

And about that 0.3 sec.I drive always till I'm on my limit of skills.
Mostly I have a ghost that is fast and very difficult to beat.When I beat my own car with 0.3 or 0.5 after a very long time(sometimes it takes me days to achieve that) then I'm satisfied.
At that point I know I reached the limit.And always a clean limit.
The rank in the results is of secondary importance for me.