- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
Visually I expect it to be the best on console. I expect the audio to be the worst in all of sim racing to continue the GT tradition.
What are your realistic expectations in terms of visuals and audio simulation in GT7?
- Thread starter ArR29
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- JoshsoJB
This is way back on the first page of this thread but I found what I was talking about. Just wanted closure lol and it indeed can be used in the way I was thinking. It would be cool if they made use of it and flooded tracks with 3D vegetation based on the type of plant life that's in the area. The PS5 can probably take it.
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- 1,549
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- MHFanatik
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- MHFanatik
Cinematic angle tells me it's a replay. And this kind of effect can be achieved with SSR or a baked reflection. You can see how they did it in Forza 7 for example.We need more gameplay footage of different cars and cams before we can say it isn't in gameplay. The trailer footage showed it in the cockpit cam for the Carrera GT, but still need to confirm for gameplay footage. It should be doable especially since they're already disabling certain objects from being ray-traced on the exterior body to save resources.
And Project Cars baked it for the center console screen as well.
So it can be done with old tricks.
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- 1,089
Polyphony are proficient in gfx so that is least concern for the game for sure. We will have dynamic weather, TOD. I want this feature for every track. I am not too much into trees though. They made a big upgrade in GTS. So I think there will be only subtle changes. VR is something I am interested as well and I think in this regard it should be a big upgrade. I think this is the first time they are going to implement 3D audio so hopefully it makes a good difference
- 1,748
- vspectra06
- vspectra06
Cinematic angle tells me it's a replay. And this kind of effect can be achieved with SSR or a baked reflection. You can see how they did it in Forza 7 for example.
And Project Cars baked it for the center console screen as well.
So it can be done with old tricks.
SSR wouldn't work for those angles on the instrument panel, nor would they warp the numbers like in the GTS image. The baked textures in your examples don't even look accurate and don't reflect the dynamically moving meters.
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- MHFanatik
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I had no doubt
- 360
- France
The big problem with GT sport and now GT7's graphics engine is that, although it does look very realistic, it looks way too clean for something like racing. The cars look like they haven't ever been touched after their production even older cars. They should make so that cars get dirty during the race or just add some dust/insect on the windshield that slowly increased during a race. Many racing games now do that including ACC. Along with that it's very important to have a good esthetic damage model because personnally, I'm a bit tired of racing indestructible polished to the nail cars.
- 8,721
The RT unit is sitting idle anyway, the scene intersections can be scheduled efficiently and the way that the car models are structured (as a data stream) means it's easy to reference a low LOD version of the scene. Adding yet another bitmask to the materials shader is trivial. PD have had all of this in mind for over a decade and have slowly been taking steps towards it in their asset production and renderer design.
That said, what we've seen is clearly a prototype / dev build, heavily scripted and with features enabled / disabled per scene to control the appearance and limit any bugs or unintended interactions that have yet to be worked around.
I personally fully expect a lot of the renderer features to be optional in the next game, so players can prioritise performance (response) or quality. All of these fears of 240 Hz compromising the quality or RT compromising performance would be unjustified as a result.
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- djsotosmc
I also see better reflections and illumination. But that's about it. I expect greater improvement in the coming months.
Strittan
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- Strittan
Except GT Sport is one of the best sounding sims for the most part, but ok.
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- JoshsoJB
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To me the biggest concern isn't if the game have ray tracing or not but with the track textures,vegetation, sound of the cars, wheel animation and the way the driver grips the wheel, physics etc. all aspects that seems have remained the same as GT Sport (at least from what they showed in the trailers,maybe in the next months the game will look totally different i don't know)
I was expecting a real next gen Gran Turismo and they showed to us this...
I was expecting a real next gen Gran Turismo and they showed to us this...
- 485
- Croatia
I agree. Even the low res blurry cockpit shadows are still there. And the environments.. still very low poly, blurry textures everywhere. I can't see a single thing in those environments that can't be done on a PS4. I am willing to let all this go if they have an insane weather/time system in place, but somehow i doubt it.
Maybe the Unreal Engine 5 demo messed with my expectations. That kind of tech could mean insane levels of detail for a non interactive environment like a racing game track. If the PS5 is capable of that you'd think PD would be the on it already. Yeah it will look better than GTS and improve until release, but the visuals are a massive disappointment so far.
Your minds fooling you. Go back and watch GTS footage. It’s a very significant downgrade on what was shown in this early GT7 footage.
As expected, the lighting, is on a whole other level. If you take a close look at the trailer there is also a significant upgrade in trackside foliage/furniture density. All presented with far higher resolution textures.
These fine details and polishing are the final area of work for any game. PD need to see what overhead they have while running at 4K/60 with (possible) dynamic lighting/weather. It will be far more beneficial to retain current asset quality. But ramp up effects like motion blur, DoF, particle effects, to get a realistic, filmic, look.
- 485
- Croatia
It's hard to compare the track detail and density if you're not comparing the same track. Higher resolution textures? look at the pic a few posts above...
That just looks bad. Just like that nurburgring section from when GTS was revealed. Why do they keep showing that?
Not really seeing the difference in vegetation, spectators look the same also. I'm not denying the lighting improvement thanks to ray tracing, but if everything else is nearly identical then I just don't see that as a generational leap.
First impressions count, if this was supposed to be the best showcase of a next gen GT then it's very underwhelming so far.
- 1,097
- United Kingdom
- theufc33
Interesting comment from an apparent video game artist on Reddit sharing his thoughts about GT7's graphics (and about the challenges of game development these days):
"As a video game artist, it seems like the big difference we will all get to see with these new consoles and recent graphics card updates is better lighting and more assets. The assets themselves probably won’t improve too much (right away).
It takes a long time to make assets these days, and with a lack of new tools providing streamlined workflows, we are kind of at the limit of what a production team can create. We can bulk up team scope, but that just adds to cost. Easy wins for next gens is what it's always about.
And that easy win is dynamic lighting. GI to be more specific. The one thing I see here is the shadow cascades in the car. I have had issues in the past working on dynamic lighting for worlds and having issues balancing near and far off shadow behavior. Here you can see the interior has no lighting 'bleeding' which is just a huge grounding effect for real time lighting. Contact shadows, ditching that old ambient occlusion crap with real raytraced global illumination and bounce. It is going to look amazing.
The steering wheels will be the same assets, but the engines they sit in will be drastically different.
I have also made racing games in the past (open world), and boy it's tough trying to balance asset loads. Because you slow down and go at high speeds. Loading and offloading assets super quick. Trying to be clever about line of sight so you can fake the illusion of abundance of assets. No more! Artists and world builders can just focus on making art. These worlds will feel so much more alive and fuller.
Rants done. I am super excited about the next generation of consoles. The past 2 generations have just been more textures, more polys. And this generation could be about throwing away old methods and moving onto easier to use, and more powerful ones. Fluid Dynamics, real time physic simulations for VFX, raytraced lighting, virtual texturing. Man, there is going to be a huge leap in graphics over the next 5 years. If production artists like myself can keep up."
"As a video game artist, it seems like the big difference we will all get to see with these new consoles and recent graphics card updates is better lighting and more assets. The assets themselves probably won’t improve too much (right away).
It takes a long time to make assets these days, and with a lack of new tools providing streamlined workflows, we are kind of at the limit of what a production team can create. We can bulk up team scope, but that just adds to cost. Easy wins for next gens is what it's always about.
And that easy win is dynamic lighting. GI to be more specific. The one thing I see here is the shadow cascades in the car. I have had issues in the past working on dynamic lighting for worlds and having issues balancing near and far off shadow behavior. Here you can see the interior has no lighting 'bleeding' which is just a huge grounding effect for real time lighting. Contact shadows, ditching that old ambient occlusion crap with real raytraced global illumination and bounce. It is going to look amazing.
The steering wheels will be the same assets, but the engines they sit in will be drastically different.
I have also made racing games in the past (open world), and boy it's tough trying to balance asset loads. Because you slow down and go at high speeds. Loading and offloading assets super quick. Trying to be clever about line of sight so you can fake the illusion of abundance of assets. No more! Artists and world builders can just focus on making art. These worlds will feel so much more alive and fuller.
Rants done. I am super excited about the next generation of consoles. The past 2 generations have just been more textures, more polys. And this generation could be about throwing away old methods and moving onto easier to use, and more powerful ones. Fluid Dynamics, real time physic simulations for VFX, raytraced lighting, virtual texturing. Man, there is going to be a huge leap in graphics over the next 5 years. If production artists like myself can keep up."
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The old GTS Nurburgring launch trailer was clearly in an unfinished (by years) state. The GT7 trailer shows higher resolution trackside textures and rock formations. Just take a look at the overhead shot with the Trial Mountain logo for a start. Or when the Mazda closes on the 917 and comes over the brow to the left hander. In GTS all those grass textures would be like the one you posted above. These are some of the first things I looked out for as they’re a big bug bear in GTS. They’re hard to spot with YouTube compression and the speed.
When put side-by-side GTS looks lifeless. No metallic shine on the cars, material properties look one tone. Tree’s, vegetation and rock formations look dull etc.
First impressions do count. All I’ve heard from the general gaming community is how great and flashy the cars look. For the aficionados, we’ll be looking down the line, to see if they implement dynamic lighting/weather, damage, debris, smoke and what have you.
- 1,549
- New Zealand
- MHFanatik
One thing I'm really dissapointed about is the lack of dynamic shadows from artificial sources like streetlight compared to GT 5.
It really gave a dynamic quality to nighttime scenes in GT5, with these shadows zipping around. Something that I haven't seen included in any currentgen racers. It's crazy that a machine from 2005 could do it, but this modern hardware can't. Most racers today just have some flashing specular highlights, but no shadows. Some have fake exterior shadows like Forza and GTS, but nothing in the cockpit view. I wish they brought it back.
It really gave a dynamic quality to nighttime scenes in GT5, with these shadows zipping around. Something that I haven't seen included in any currentgen racers. It's crazy that a machine from 2005 could do it, but this modern hardware can't. Most racers today just have some flashing specular highlights, but no shadows. Some have fake exterior shadows like Forza and GTS, but nothing in the cockpit view. I wish they brought it back.
- 1,206
- South Africa
Clearly... PD were updating Sport and used it as the groundwork for GT7.. My problem with this is.. they practically arent using the incredible ssd any different from GT Sport. In fact.. that one aspect is embarrassing.
If a 3rd party engine (UE5) had a demo that detailed with no loading.. its horrendous that PD has GT7 running with shadows and details popping up as you drive.
This is honestly the generation of budget and time, these are now the only limits to creators dreams... with the powerful SSD and it's super ability to texture stream 5.5GB of info per a sec.. PD is letting first party down with this.
If you look at what Insomniac is doing with R and C :Rift Apart.. their able to build a multitude of different worlds and literally let you jump between entire worlds on the fly through rifts with zero loading, yet PD cant even have the entire track load with maximum detail? The UE5 demo had 500 statues at 16million polys each.. all exist in the game world with zero need for LOD changes to the assets... but GT7, which is no where near that detailed has track details load.
I'll give PD the benefit of the doubt
....I hope to see more improvements in the PD engine as we head to launch. But as it stands... it doesn't look like their leveraging the SSDs capabilities any more than a standard HDD.
I am a bit disappointed, I admit. Clearly GT7 is bot not built from the ground up for PS5.
But.. we have seen PD update the games/engines before release, so I'm hopeful things will improve.
Clearly as of now.. they want to bank on Raytracing as a definition for next gen... and that (while nice) is a disappointment. The game should be revolving around the SSD, not Raytracing.
If it all stays exactly the same however..the game better have 500+ cars, 50+ tracks, day/night/weather across them all... because I jist dont see what PD were doing with their time otherwise.
Mark Cerny himself has stated PS5 is far easier to code than PS4... and they've got all these improvements to hardware. Can't say Im not a tsd disappointed in PD about this. But I am hoping they come out swinging and get things up to scratch.
If a 3rd party engine (UE5) had a demo that detailed with no loading.. its horrendous that PD has GT7 running with shadows and details popping up as you drive.
This is honestly the generation of budget and time, these are now the only limits to creators dreams... with the powerful SSD and it's super ability to texture stream 5.5GB of info per a sec.. PD is letting first party down with this.
If you look at what Insomniac is doing with R and C :Rift Apart.. their able to build a multitude of different worlds and literally let you jump between entire worlds on the fly through rifts with zero loading, yet PD cant even have the entire track load with maximum detail? The UE5 demo had 500 statues at 16million polys each.. all exist in the game world with zero need for LOD changes to the assets... but GT7, which is no where near that detailed has track details load.
I'll give PD the benefit of the doubt
....I hope to see more improvements in the PD engine as we head to launch. But as it stands... it doesn't look like their leveraging the SSDs capabilities any more than a standard HDD.
I am a bit disappointed, I admit. Clearly GT7 is bot not built from the ground up for PS5.
But.. we have seen PD update the games/engines before release, so I'm hopeful things will improve.
Clearly as of now.. they want to bank on Raytracing as a definition for next gen... and that (while nice) is a disappointment. The game should be revolving around the SSD, not Raytracing.
If it all stays exactly the same however..the game better have 500+ cars, 50+ tracks, day/night/weather across them all... because I jist dont see what PD were doing with their time otherwise.
Mark Cerny himself has stated PS5 is far easier to code than PS4... and they've got all these improvements to hardware. Can't say Im not a tsd disappointed in PD about this. But I am hoping they come out swinging and get things up to scratch.
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- 28,470
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- Johnnypenso
- 12
- Rotterdam
- gtking2010
Along with better looking environments, I actually expected better shadows/AO or even RT shadows/AO instead of reflections. Because when picking a low lighting condition in GTS most if not all objects look really flat. To me that is the biggest giveaway that you're looking at a game rather than real life.
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I agree, usually that's what keeping video games to look completely realistic, usually they make everything too clean and shiny for real world.
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