What do you do to learn Nuerburgring?

[Parnelli Bone]

For the first time in my imaginary racing career, I am truly stumped! I mean, I've conquered a lot of tracks...recently Sarthe is beginning to feel like an old friend as I finally know every kink and corner.

But Nurburging honestly has me confused man. I can't get any visual clues going and this one is literally gonna take days if not weeks to figure. So many of the turns look the same...how will I ever learn it?

For the first time, I am literally thinking about taking notes on this course so I can come up with some sort of system. What did you do to learn Nurburgring?

 

[Aquendwato]

Eventually you'll race on it so much that you'll start to remember it. IA-16, Mission 34, the two enduros, and the 1000 Miles will help you out if you want to try and do it all at once.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I'm doing the Pan-Euro Championship for the 2nd time and the Ring is the last to conquer. The first time I tried it I eventually qualified 3rd place but in the actual race I kept wiping out and lost!

My B-spec driver of course will smoke here. I might let him take the Ring this time 💡

 

[Agent Smith]

this one is literally gonna take days if not weeks to figure.

If by days & weeks, you meant months & years, then yeah, you're absolutely right.

 

[KiwiBoy]

Since my first day of driving (note: not racing) on the "Ring" almost 2 years ago, I still haven't totally memorized the whole track. But when I race it comes into my mind as bits, I remember the next corners as I'm driving, its like RAM, instead of the data stored in the HD.

 

[Ignignoc N Err]

The way I learned it was to run the 1000 Miles! Nürburgring race with the Lotus Elan S1 in A-spec. The car handles so well (especially on this particular course) that it inspires your confidence, yet it is limited by its own gears and power to keep you relatively slow. When you're running consistent 8:30.xxx laps on S2's with this car, you're ready to move on to something more powerful.

 

[frenzal]

For the first time, i am literally thinking about taking notes on this course so i can come up with some sort of system. What did you do to learn Nurburgring?

After 25 laps around here in the 1000 miles Championship, it gave me a fair idea of it (if i remember correctly, i think I used the Ginetta)/ But that was still only a basic understanding of the track, i found that doing IA-16 (silver with 16 secs to find for gold) and Mission 34 (still to complete successfully, btw) gave me better understanding of using different tyre types and cars with different handling characteristics.

I think that this track above all others really requires driving, driving and more driving. I like what Kiwiboy says, it's more like RAM than HD.

Will be sitting down to do the 4 Hr Enduro here this evening.

 

[Wolfe]

Actually, the way I learned it was through lots of time spent on XBOX Live in Project Gotham Racing 2. The version of the track in that game is horrendously inaccurate in terms of scale and trackside scenery, but the hills and corners are pretty much the same. Later on, GT4 and Enthusia "refined" my knowledge of the track with their much more accurate versions.

Some learn the track more quickly than others, but if you keep doing laps you'll get there yourself. You may think there aren't any visual cues now, but the corners are always in the same order... ...it's kinda better to memorize the corners themselves anyway, because that will allow you to run the track no matter what game you're playing.

 

[a112]

Year ago,while i was still in elementary school,at home,i used to drive GT4 when i got home,and driving the ring with various cars( Mostly Honda S2000) in time trial mode for hours and hours every day.It was big fun and enjoyment.I also like KiwiBoy can't memorize the whole track if you ask me what are the corners right now without driving the GT4,but when i'm driving it's just getting to me.

 

[Leonidae]

I drove on it a lot, trying to either get close or pass the real world lap records, like R32 GT-R's 8'22 (which wasn't too hard because of the lack of fear factor).
Use stock, low-powered cars that have neutral handling and learn proper braking spots, then move on to more powerful machines. and honestly speaking, I survive a lot better on Nurb than on Le Sarthe. it's bit hard to define where to start braking when one is doing almost 250mph...

 

[Famine]

Eventually you'll race on it so much that you'll start to remember it. IA-16, Mission 34, the two enduros, and the 1000 Miles will help you out if you want to try and do it all at once.

Some Licence tests take place on short sections of the 'Ring - A7, A14, A16, IB2, IA13 - coupled with the full 'Ring Licences - IA15, S16.

This gives you 5 short sections of the track to learn, and the full lap is "just" a case of stringing these 5 sections together and learning some of the little intervening parts. Gold those five Licences and you've got enough information to drive the 'Ring without crashing and to tackle IA15/S16/Mission 34.

 

[Niels]

I learned to drive the Nurenburg Ring in just 3 days I remember. I still have been learning afterwards, but I had the basics sorted out after a short while already.

So first time I drove on the Nurenburgring, I was impressed, how could you possible be able to drive it?
So I started out thinking: "if I just brake more than usual, and get on the gas when I see my exit, everything should be fine." So I did.
I just drove laps on it, very safely at first, only applying throttle when I saw the corner exit. Then I moved to giving gas when I saw the exit rumble strips.
Meanwhile I tried to delay my braking. And it went on and on from that point.

It helps if you got a steering wheel though I think.

 

[Fyshokid]

The way I got used to it was driving Mission 34 over and over and over and over again. I tried to remember which corners that were more, well, hard than others. And so I learned some of the corners. And then after driving the mission some more I learned the rest.

Now I know it like the back of my hand (Almost)

I've also been doing alot of time trails on it

 

[GT Pro]

As with the license tests Famine stated, if you still feel that these are inadequate, try yourself at the 24hr Nurburgring with a car pitched at around '100 A-spec points' against the opposing field. Such experience would assume you would need to go no further in your learning of the track once haven completed this.

 

[Scaff]

PB - Famine's advise on the licence test is a good tip, and well worth doing.

Personally I got to grips with the 'ring in time trials rather than races, as I found it allows you to concentrate on the line without the distraction of other cars or the pressure trying to catch another car.

Start with a car you know well and find predictable in handling (after all you don't need the car working against you as well), and to start with of a low to medium power to weight ratio (but nothing to light it can be a pain to start with over the 'rings many bumps).

Drive the track at a moderate pace and just keep going, pushing a little more each and every lap, as unfortunately practice is the key to the 'ring. As I'm sure you have found some parts of the track will not allow you to push too hard or they will bite back, combined with many of the corners being blind and experience and practice are you best allies here.

However the following can also help...

http://www.bmw.com/generic/com/en/fascination/bmwm/automobiles/specials/_pdf/bmwm_nordschleife.pdf

...the above link will download a 25 page guide to the 'ring, covering every corner in detail. It was put together by BMW, Sport Auto and BMW works driver Jorg Muller, each and every line is explained as are braking and clipping points. You may find it helps get the line right on some of the trickier complexes.

I also found that watching as many real in-car videos of the track as I could helps pick up the right lines through some sections, with this always a favourite...



...its a six minute 40 second (approx) lap of the 'ring by Derek Bell in a group C Porsche 956. I'm fortunate enough to have this on DVD, but the you tube version is not bad.

Or this one, which is a Radical SR8




Keep practising, its worth it.

Regards

Scaff

 

[AlfaAlfa]

After I drove around hopelessly crashing, lost, and overwhelmed for awhile I decided I would just learn for certain where Adenauer Forst was (at the time I didn't know its name) so that at least I wouldn't crash there every %$#&* time. That accidentally lead to being able to predict Aremberg, Fuchsrohre, and Metzgesfeld which I also didn't have names for but I was happy to have one string of familiar corners at the ring. That gave me a foothold and a technique for memorizing more. Now someday I want to go to the real track and ride in the ring taxi - that would be so awesome! Though learning some German language intimidates me even more than learning the track in GT4

 

[BobK]

Scaff, an excellent resource and awesome videos! +rep! 👍

PB, keep at it. It took me about a week and a half to learn this track well enough to pass the IA-15 license test, the pace car lap around the 'Ring. I drove a lot of practice laps with a variety of cars including the test car, the M3 CSL, but on sports tires instead of the R2's used for the test. I did drive a couple laps on R2's after I got to feeling a little confident with the car and the track.

I'd echo the above advice on the first 1000 Miles! race and the 4-hour Nurb enduro as good learning tools. A good car for the first (nürburging) 1000 Miles! race would be the Mercedes 300SL which you can win in the Mercedes-Benz SL Challenge manufacturers' race provided you avoid the AC Cobra although it is a bit of overkill once you know the track. Just stiffen the suspension a bit and stretch the gears slightly.

Once you earn the IA lincense an excellent race to get more experience on the 'Ring with higher performance cars is the fourth race in the Deutsche Touring Car Meisterschaft. All eligible cars can win this race but the faster ones are either of the Audi touring cars, the Open Astra or the Mercedes CLK Touring Car.

Just keep plugging and you'll get there. As you already know, learning this track does not come overnight. Good luck with it!

 

[Parnelli Bone]

Wow thanks everyone. +rep to all I could afford in 24 hours 👍

Well I really dig the license test/section idea. Think I'll start with that. Then I'll do the 1,000 mile enduro. oops errrr there we go!

I just spent an hour and a half driving my '04 BMW M3 around and around till my tires would go red. I am slowly getting the hang of it. Like there's one section where there's this house in the trees and as you approach it it vanishes. I call this the "castle" section. And the area where the long long long long long straight is...after you get off there's a few slight turns that become tighter and there's the pit lane. I got that down.

It's funny, Leonidae says he's better at the Ring than at Sarthe! But Sarthe has such distinct visual clues...my only prob with the Ring is that there hardly are any clues....well I'll figure it out and thanks all.

Scaff I went ahead and printed those pages! I'm such a geek !

 

[Brock5000]

I don't think races are a good way to learn the ring, too much distraction to beat the other cars.

As others have said, pick a not too powerful stock car that you are comfortable with and gently cruise around in time trial mode. Something like an M3 or S2000 is perfect.

Don't try to push too hard, if you try to go around every corner as fast as you can you won't really learn the track.

If you are having trouble with certain corners, just take them a little slower until you find a line that suits your style, then try to hit it a little faster each lap. Try to apply gentle modulation to the throttle, see if you can use half throttle to hold your speed through long corners.

I would even go so far as to suggest using Normal tyres, as they give you a better idea of where some of the slippery and off-camber sections are that you may not notice on grippier tyres.

Of course learning where all the corners are is one thing, then the real fun starts as you start doing lap after lap to really know the place. Even after thousands of laps, you will still catch yourself out if you don't pay attention.

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I would even go so far as to suggest using Normal tyres, as they give you a better idea of where some of the slippery and off-camber sections are that you may not notice on grippier tyres.

Funny you should say that. I usually always use N3 road tires when i'm learning a course in GT4. Or sometimes I'll even use them on lower-powered cars in actual races (assuming I know what the hell I'm doing).

Really dug that vid, Scaff. 👍 Awesome to see Derek driving round and then Jacky Ickx passes by on his qualifying lap even faster!!

 

[azevedojose]

You just have to keep lapping and lapping the Ring. This way you'll learn every single corner. Even if at the beginning you do it really slow, it generally pays up in a near future. 👍

 

[HEAVYSET]

Actually, the way I learned it was through lots of time spent on XBOX Live in Project Gotham Racing 2.

Same here. I was daunted too, at first. 72 turns. Yikes!!! How could I possibly remember all of them? But in no time at all I could run a lap in my head. It just takes laps. Running it as fast as I should? Different story.

As others have suggested, I remembered it in sections. Just think of how you can remember all the other tracks in the game. For example: Run a lap in your head at Laguna Seca. When you cross the finish line picture yourself starting a lap at Apricot Hill, then Grand Valley, then LeMans, etc. All seemlessly attached to one another. If you can do that, then you can learn the 'Ring easily by sectionalizing it. The sections could be landmark to landmark, or what worked best for me was what was in between one troublesome corner and the next. When learning a track, I tend to remember corners I took badly, and what was before and after, alot more than what's in between this photo stand and that big tree.

 

[Philly]

I think I learned the 'Ring really early on. My tactic (as I used for almost all tracks) was just to follow the AI around for a couple of laps and seeing where they brake and also using the little red flashing gear warning thing. Doing this you crash a lot. Once I had a general idea of the track, I drove around in I think an M3. Once you know the track pretty good, jump into a fully tuned Cerbera Speed 12. Don't go as fast as possible, but get around with few crashes. After driving that, most cars are really easy.

I also ran a lot of races in supercars there, and as a result, I can run the track almost exclusively by the feel of the rhythm of the corners. Just kep practising, you will learn it. As for the liscense tests, I didn't really factor that knowledge in until I started racing. (I pretty much just jumped in the car and did them; I had run the track a lot before). They were useful, though.

Now, I just play with my line and brake/gas points for a little fun and a good time.

 

[Joey D]

I learned the Ring by taking lowered powered cars and just doing laps, I think when I got the game I did about 30 laps with a MKV GTI, about 20 laps with a S2000, and about 20 laps with a WRX. I figures trying a FWD, RWD, and AWD would help out in how each type of car handled the hills and bumps. I found the GTI to be the easiest to drive around the Ring but I use it to learn just about every track because it's the perfect blend of power and handling.

Also when I'm really trying to get good at a track (I haven't done this with the ring yet) is to watch the reply in photomode (so I can stop it) and see where my problems lie.

 

[Wolfe]

It's funny, Leonidae says he's better at the Ring than at Sarthe! But Sarthe has such distinct visual clues...

I'm the same way, actually. It doesn't help that I almost never raced on Circuit de la Sarthe back when I played GT4...the 'Ring is far more interesting.

 

[Ignignoc N Err]

Sarthe can be very interesting at 375+ km/h...

As with all things, more practice can help you. Eventually, you'll develop a line, and the braking and turn-in will become instinctive.

 

[Greycap]

It's funny, Leonidae says he's better at the Ring than at Sarthe! But Sarthe has such distinct visual clues...my only prob with the Ring is that there hardly are any clues....well i'll figure it out and thanks all.

For me, Sarthe is like straights... boring straights... don't these straights ever end... cornercornercorner! *screech* and then we go again. Round and around with that same formula, it doesn't have the magnificent flow that Nordschleife is known and loved for. Every corner is different and that's what makes it do great, it took me about a week to memorize but now there is no problem remembering the line for each and every corner.

- R -

 

[Wolfe]

Trying to have fun on Circuit de la Sarthe is like trying to watch a video on YouTube with a 14.4k modem.

It's... (buffering) ...poss... (buffering) ...ible... (buffering) ...... (buffering) ...bu... (buffering) ...t... (buffering) ...ra... (buffering) ...ther... (buffering) ...sp... (buffering) ...ora... (buffering) ...dic.

 

[Scaff]

I just spent an hour and a half driving my '04 BMW M3 around and around till my tires would go red.

Good choice on the car, the M3, M3CSL or even the 330i are all good starting points (OK so I'm bias on the 330i as its the closest thing in the game to my 320i).

Scaff i went ahead and printed those pages! I'm such a geek !

Snap, I have a cop printed off and in a ring binder. Always handy to have when getting used to the 'ring.

Really dug that vid, Scaff. 👍 Awesome to see Derek driving round and then Jacky Ickx passes by on his qualifying lap even faster!!

Glad you liked the video, if I recall correctly Derek Bell's lap was around 6 mins 40 seconds, then think that Stephan Bellof set a time of 6 mins 11 seconds (a record that still stands today) that weekend, around half a minute quicker!!!

Mind you Bellof was a bit of a nutter (brave and talented beyond belief, but a nutter).

Regards

Scaff

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I think I learned the 'Ring really early on. My tactic (as I used for almost all tracks) was just to follow the AI around for a couple of laps and seeing where they brake

That's what I did. A Jag XJ220 would pass me as I blundered my way around, then I would follow him as best I could as sort of a "pace car". When fully powered, the BMW M3 can actually equal the XJ220 down that long straight too. 👍 Eventually I would screw up again. Next thing I know the Jag is now a half-minute ahead of me!

I'm the same way, actually. It doesn't help that I almost never raced on Circuit de la Sarthe back when I played GT4...the 'Ring is far more interesting.

See I think Sarthe is really interesting.....in fact I would pay $19.99 for GT4 if Sarthe were the only track in the game! Sarthe (and Cote) are like Rubik's Cubes...very predictable if you know where you are. In contrast, the Ring is like a jigsaw puzzle. You get a little piece at a time but how does it relate to the thousand other little pieces?

For me, Sarthe is like straights... boring straights... don't these straights ever end... cornercornercorner! screech and then we go again. Round and around with that same formula, it doesn't have the magnificent flow that Nordschleife is known and loved for. Every corner is different and that's what makes it do great, it took me about a week to memorize but now there is no problem remembering the line for each and every corner.

- R -

Flying down those straights is anything but boring as the bumps and aerodynamic effects feel a lot more present than at the usual Gran Turismo tracks (Route 5, Grand Valley, and others are so mirror-smooth! PD must have bull-dozed the ground under their straights with a razor blade and billiard ball-set 10,000 times to get their original tracks so smooth.)

As I drove my M3 down these straights, the yuppy driver was just as worried that his Crappucino Latte would wind up in his lap as the car bounced around.