What do you do to learn Nuerburgring?

[peeweegary]

i was bored one day and took a 350z concept lm car(i think thats what it's called) and kept driving it around the track.

 

[socomplayer2]

Since my first day of driving (note: not racing) on the "Ring" almost 2 years ago, I still haven't totally memorized the whole track. But when I race it comes into my mind as bits, I remember the next corners as I'm driving, its like RAM, instead of the data stored in the HD.

That is exactly how I am on the Nurb. Now I cant recall the tracks finer points but when I am on it I know it like the back of my hand. I think its bacause everytime I go out to drive in gt4 thats the track I go to. Thats where I tune, cruise and race all the time. Its the ultimate challange.

 

[Scaff]

in fact i would pay $19.99 for GT4 if Sarthe were the only track in the game! Sarthe (and Cote) are like Rubik's Cubes...very predictable if you know where you are. In contrast, the Ring is like a jigsaw puzzle. You get a little piece at a time but how does it relate to the thousand other little pieces?

I'm the same but with the 'ring, I wouldn't mind if it was the only track in the game, just give me a wide range of cars and the 'ring to drive on. Its one of the few tracks that can be a challenge regardless of the car you are driving.

Regards

Scaff

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I had to take a break from the 'Ring and GT4 altogether. I mean I got truly frustrated and nearly snapped my DS2 in half (those things are tough, man). But this happens occasionally. And then I'll come back to and it'll seem half-resolved, as all the sudden I finally have a clue. My black DS2 lives another day.

Even still...I believe the Ring is a track that you never truly learn as it's always teaching you something new. I mean even Deep Forest...I've been racing there since my GT1 days and I still learn stuff from that track. (Trail Mountain and Grand Valley, too..)

 

[Uncle Harry]

I beat mission 34 PAL by 12 seconds. I think I am starting to learn the Ring.

A F1 around here for high A spec points in the F1 race makes you learn the track real fast. It shows you bumps and humps that a nice safe car never finds.

 

[[empty space]]

i learn the ring in f1c (pc) with the SCC mod.

to be honest, i picked up on it very quickly as i found it to be the most naturally flowing vitrual track id ever driven. it helped that the cars had more grip than they really had (specially the little mgs lmp675s)

ive not completed mission 34 as i didnt really drive much after passing my tests. i b-speced to where i could just hot lap the ring with the lmp/group c beasts.

im at a 5'07x with a fgt though and managed a 6'45.x with the gsxr/4 without downforce or racing slicks

the dtm's or bmw m3 gtr should be the next step up from the road cars imo. theyve really good grip and really balanced (almost to the point of being boring imo) but, still fast enough to get yourself in trouble.

you should be happy your learning in GT4 instead of TT. you really need to soften the bikes up to get them to handle the bumps. even then, theres still bumps out theres that will throw a bike sideways in a straight. the left at the end of the long back straight will ruin many laps because the bumps will bounce the front end will wobble so badly you cant steer or kick the rear tyre in the air, land and the spinning tyre will drag you off course, into the barrier at 170+mph.

 

[frenzal]

I had to take a break from the 'Ring and GT4 altogether. I mean i got truely frustrated and nearly snapped my DS2 in half (those things are tough, man). But this happens occasionally. And then i'll come back to my issue and it'll seem half-resolved as all the sudden i finally have a clue. My black DS2 lives another day.

I understand your frustration, Parnelli.(refer common thread in GT3 )

Seriously though, with the 'Ring, for a while it seemed to be so bloody impossible to recall the different sections that i would get really irked. Then one day it just seemed to flow, and i found when i did the 4 Hr enduro (see my seperate report) it really felt smooth to follow. The only real trouble i had was when i came back from breaks, but that happens every lengthy race i do (even Test Curse) Now it's a track i really love to race on, i'm looking forward to the 24 Hr enduro, i'm working my way up by length of race and plan on doing the 'Ring last of all. That'll set me up for my last event, the Formula GT Championship.

 

[Blake]

Drive the Formula GT race at the Nürb. Once you lap the field you’re doing decent times.

 

[GT40 MKII]

i went on several drives and followed what the guided lap of the ring test said, dont set a land speed record but memorize each section of the course piece by piece. figure out how to tackle each section the quickest then put it all together that's the only advice i can really give

 

[Duke]

Well i really dig the license test/section idea. Think i'll start with that.

That's basically how I did it, though not in any formalized way. Racing is difficult - the track is narrow, and the AI tends to run powerful, poor-handling barges that use up every inch of track all the time, making overtaking very difficult. I also tend to be fast in places where they are slow; but then in some places they can absolutely scream through, I'm driving gingerly on the edge of control. For instance, once I finally get around the hotshoe AI between Flugplatz and Aremberg, I can usually gain a lot of time on them all the way through Karussell. Then I can't keep it up through the back side of the track. It feels like I'm doing fine, but by Schwalbenshwanz my lead is shrinking rapidly. And no matter how I try, I simply cannot manage as much speed through Tiergarten and Hohenrain as the AI do. I'm usually barely in control here and slowing desperately when they sail in at top speed, elbow me right off the track, and take the last couple turns without breaking a sweat.

You just have to learn it in waves. Get the first part down, and extend that to the next section before you wipe out in a big way. Then make it halfway, then a little farther every time. It's kind of like a 3D platform game - you have to die a lot before you learn where all the traps are, but eventually you can clear the whole level.

It's funny, Leonidae says he's better at the Ring than at Sarthe! But Sarthe has such distinct visual clues...my only prob with the Ring is that there hardly are any clues...

It must all be in the perception, because I'm with Leonidae on this one. I find Le Sarthe to be featureless and confusing. Particularly the part after Arnage all the way through the start-finish: the ground is nearly flat; you can't see anything that's coming up, and there are sandtraps and service roads all over that camouflage the real track. Almost everything here that looks like a fast turn is actually slow, and vice versa. After the start finish there are just enough rises to make the important turn-ins blind, and in a couple cases what looks like the line actually leads you to put a wheel in the grass, which is instant death on this track. I find it very difficult to get a decent lap at Le Sarthe.

 

[eg6_dude]

For awhile I ate, slept, and breathed the nurburgring! I tried everything I could do to memorize the corners and whenever I played GT4 I always raced on the nurburgring in a civic hatchback. Anyhow... in a few solid days of freetime practice I had the track down... or at least I thought I did! I had the general layout and what turns were where down just not the optimal line and velocity at which each corner could be taken. There is always room to improve on the ring, because even when you think you know it you can still be missing out on seconds of time. I'd have to say I improved about 15-20 seconds in the same car on the ring since I got GT4!

 

[alexwrc]

If you like it, you'll learn it. Just simple hehe. I'm a fan of long and very long circuits, like the Nordschleife by excellence. It's hard to learn it at first time, but past days-months (As you said, Pirelli) the track is becoming more and more interesting. It's a time and practicing question I think.

I train that circuit the most, so I can recognize each turn for now. I'm not the most quick so far, of course, but I simply enjoy it

For me, the fact of including the Nords to GT, is a critical characteristic of GT ever. It's really accurate to the real Ring taking a look to any million of those Internet vids.

Salu2.alexwrc

 

[Michael88]

What I did learn on the first 20 laps on the Nordschleife:

* Using soft suspension setup helps a lot to get faster times on that circuit
* Avoiding some dangerous bumps
* Patience
* Slowing down on uphill turns to avoid excessive understeer and crashes at the very end of the turn
* Careful accelerating in the Karussell
* Fast shifting between third and fourth gear at Wippermann and Schwalbenschwanz.


Actually the Nordschleife (and the LaSarthe circuits without chicanes) is the only track I race at least 3 times a day with all kinds of cars, Group-C cars preferred.
I really love to equip racing cars with super hard R1 tires trying to get the same lap times the real cars did on the Nordschleife.

A GT4 without the Nürburgring isnt imaginable and I wish PD would have been able to add a ''wet'' version of the Nordschleife.

 

[DAMMnit]

the 'ring' isnt that hard after all, its the hardest in an formula gt. i did one of my last races yesterday and that was in the championship formula gt, the nurburgring was my last race of the game.
it was a blast
and if you guys think im slow with conquering this game
the last months i only had eye for my ps3

 

[shawtyoner]

...the above link will download a 25 page guide to the 'ring, covering every corner in detail. It was put together by BMW, Sport Auto and BMW works driver Jorg Muller, each and every line is explained as are braking and clipping points. You may find it helps get the line right on some of the trickier complexes.
Scaff

Hey Scaff, thanks for posting this PDf, just came across it now, it's an awesome keepsake of one of the best tracks in the world, thanks again

 

[Parnelli Bone]

you should be happy your learning in GT4 instead of TT. you really need to soften the bikes up to get them to handle the bumps. even then, theres still bumps out theres that will throw a bike sideways in a straight. the left at the end of the long back straight will ruin many laps because the bumps will bounce the front end will wobble so badly you cant steer or kick the rear tyre in the air, land and the spinning tyre will drag you off course, into the barrier at 170+mph.

I had a discussion with some friends about the topic of bikes vs. cars yesterday. I've never had an interest in bikes (other than the pedal-driven variety) and therefore have never been interested in games that feature them. I've wiped out before on various pedal bikes in my life....have no interest in losing an arm or being paralyzed from a motorcycle crash

I understand your frustration, Parnelli.(refer common thread in GT3 )

Seriously though, with the 'Ring, for a while it seemed to be so bloody impossible to recall the different sections that i would get really irked. Then one day it just seemed to flow, and i found when i did the 4 Hr enduro (see my seperate report) it really felt smooth to follow. The only real trouble i had was when i came back from breaks, but that happens every lengthy race i do (even Test Curse) Now it's a track i really love to race on, i'm looking forward to the 24 Hr enduro, i'm working my way up by length of race and plan on doing the 'Ring last of all. That'll set me up for my last event, the Formula GT Championship.

All in all I really like the idea of Nurburgring. Finally, a track that has mastered me rather than the other way round. 👍

It must all be in the perception, because I'm with Leonidae on this one. I find Le Sarthe to be featureless and confusing. Particularly the part after Arnage all the way through the start-finish: the ground is nearly flat; you can't see anything that's coming up, and there are sandtraps and service roads all over that camouflage the real track. Almost everything here that looks like a fast turn is actually slow, and vice versa. After the start finish there are just enough rises to make the important turn-ins blind, and in a couple cases what looks like the line actually leads you to put a wheel in the grass, which is instant death on this track. I find it very difficult to get a decent lap at Le Sarthe.

Wow. It must be some genetic thing perhaps. It took me about a game-day (for me this means about 5 hours) to learn Sarthe. The "blind" area you speak of kinda reminds me of Apricot Hill reversed turns #7 and 8 where you have to physically slow down before you can see where these turns, lest you wind up in the grass. I can run a virtual-lap of Sarthe in my head matter of fact...all the braking points memorized all the throttle points memorized.

As you said, Pirelli)

Uh...that's Parnelli

What I did learn on the first 20 laps on the Nordschleife:

• Using soft suspension setup helps a lot to get faster times on that circuit
• Avoiding some dangerous bumps
• Patience
• Slowing down on uphill turns to avoid excessive understeer and crashes at the very end of the turn
• Careful accelerating in the Karussell
• Fast shifting between third and fourth gear at Wippermann and Schwalbenschwanz.

Actually the Nordschleife (and the LaSarthe circuits without chicanes) is the only track I race at least 3 times a day with all kinds of cars, Group-C cars preferred.
I really love to equip racing cars with super hard R1 tires trying to get the same lap times the real cars did on the Nordschleife.

A GT4 without the Nürburgring isnt imaginable and I wish PD would have been able to add a ''wet'' version of the Nordschleife.

I got the soft-suspension thing down right away, as well as the patience part (tho I eventually lost that! ) I personally think they should have wet versions of all GT4 tracks, or even random weather in enduros or race-series. 💡

 

[NorcoRDR]

Nurburgring was my favorite track for several months, that's how I learned it. Despite it's exactitude comparing to real track, to me it still seems very flat, knowing that this track has the most dramatic altitude changes.

btw, anyone seen the time records for nurbirgring, check out Toyota Minolta, like 4;30 or something, thats crazy.

 

[ChromeBallz]

Nurburgring was my favorite track for several months, that's how I learned it. Despite it's exactitude comparing to real track, to me it still seems very flat, knowing that this track has the most dramatic altitude changes.

btw, anyone seen the time records for nurbirgring, check out Toyota Minolta, like 4;30 or something, thats crazy.

I don't think they're entirely trustworthy...

 

[Parnelli Bone]

I'm happy to say I finally got this track down over the past week. I was trying to gold the B and A license tests and came upon a couple Nurb tests...the one that begins with the Karussel area I did OVER and OVER again till I managed a few silvers. Then when I went and raced in the 1000 miles most of the course finally clicked for me even on that first lap.

...now I know it like the back of my hand...the clues to learning here are subtle, but they are there.

 

[AOS-]

How can you NOT remember it? It's so technical, your brains is extensively on the track and like 1-2 laps after you'll remember where this and that is....

 

[Parnelli Bone]

How can you NOT remember it? It's so technical, your brains is extensively on the track and like 1-2 laps after you'll remember where this and that is....

Hey bro...all I can say is the Ring didn't click with me at ALL till I "sectionalized" it in my head with license tests and stuff. Let this thread be a lesson to others like me who are shyer about asking for help!

 

[KAMKA-Z]

How can you NOT remember it? It's so technical, your brains is extensively on the track and like 1-2 laps after you'll remember where this and that is....

Hey bro...all i can say is the Ring didnt' click with me at ALL till i "sectionalized" it in my head with license tests and stuff. Let this thread be a lesson to others like me who are shyer about asking for help!

Some drivers have a fantastic memory for tracks/roads. Not me. I've been told that American Rally Champion, John Buffum has an incredible memory of rally stage roads. Meaning he has a pretty good recollection of rally stage roads he raced on at maybe a previous year's event. That's quite an advantage in the rally world for sure.

I've recently been taking drives at the ring in lower powered cars. Sometimes doing arcade or track meeting events in sim mode. It's probably not a good way to learn, but I can't help but notice the gear indicator number for the upcoming corner. Kind of like having a co-driver letting you know how much to slow down for the corner. At La Sarthe they seem to come on way to early. Maybe that's just cause I'm driving slow cars. I also find myself peeking at the map indicator for hints as to what's coming up.

 

[zsoltb]

Try photo graphic memory or what I did was name all the corners. The almost 90deg right hander you can take in 4th (in the mobil1 nsx) as the track falls away I call bens corner. It makes me think of ben so I call it ben. Ben and I did the 24hr of the ring in true sports car style.


But most of all it’s a drivers track. Good drivers will do good bad drivers will do bad.

 

[Wolfe]

Try photo graphic memory or what I did was name all the corners. The almost 90deg right hander you can take in 4th (in the mobil1 nsx) as the track falls away I call bens corner. It makes me think of ben so I call it ben. Ben and I did the 24hr of the ring in true sports car style.

If you're good with pronouncing German words you could learn the real corner names and recite them as you go.

 

[Jay.]

I race the Nurburg with a friend.
Several hours a night.
Several days a week.
Every week for the last few years.

I have nearly 700 cars in my garage a nearly all of them have been raced on the Nurburg. Ford Model T to Polyphony F1 and everything between.
We both know the track quite well but occaisionally we still 🤬 up, taking a corner too fast, oversteering on a bump.

The only way to get to know the track is to race it constantly with every car that you've got, night and day.

I'm new to this site but you can expect to see my name on the WRS leaderboard from time to time!

 

[RenesisEvo]

Stop trying.

I remember my first 'Ring experience - an R34 plucked from the Arcade mode, when I first got the game. Driving that was a complete "what in the hell...!?!" experience, crashing and going off everywhere. I quickly gave up on the Nordschleife.

But later, when I could control the cars, I found myself needing to race the circuit to continue with GT Mode. So I found a few cars I liked - MINI, my trusty 106 Rallye (which has done over 400km on the Ring, never driven anywhere else) and did a couple of laps here and there. And every now and again I'd go out and have a few laps, learn a little bit, and keep going.

A few months later, I knew the track really well, and barely have to think to drive around it. M34 was over in 3 attempts as a result.

My advice would be:
1) Get a car you really, really enjoy driving, doesn't matter if it's an understeering hot-hatch or a tail-happy race car - as long as you like it, and, more importantly, are familiar with it.
2) Go for a few laps - but no more. Your brain can only take in so much at a time. The lap is soo long that you can do 5-6 laps of a normal circuit in the time for 1 - hence why it takes 5-6 times longer to learn.
3) Go do something completely different
4) Come back, and try again.

It will happen - even if at times you want to send the controller through the TV. I had the same with the Ice Arena rallies.

 

[Jay.]

Stop trying.

I agree with Ren.
Don't try to remember it. Do other races in between and keep going back to it. As time goes by, one day you will just find yourself screaming round the track faster than before. The car you use is totally up to you. If you are happy with the car then let time do the rest.
Like I said before, it's taken me a couple of years and I still have more to learn about the Nurburg.
Good Luck!

 

[alexwrc]

Uh...that's Parnelli

Eh? Uh! Sorry a lot, I was sure you was Pirelli I don't know why . I'm right now Parnelli Bone 👍

Salu2.alexwrc

 

[Leonidae]

Stop trying.


My advice would be:
1) Get a car you really, really enjoy driving, doesn't matter if it's an understeering hot-hatch or a tail-happy race car - as long as you like it, and, more importantly, are familiar with it.
2) Go for a few laps - but no more. Your brain can only take in so much at a time. The lap is soo long that you can do 5-6 laps of a normal circuit in the time for 1 - hence why it takes 5-6 times longer to learn.
3) Go do something completely different
4) Come back, and try again.

It will happen - even if at times you want to send the controller through the TV. I had the same with the Ice Arena rallies.

"Do.. or Do not.. there is no trying"

personally, I drive on Nurb with almost any car, from 98bhp turbocharged Fiat 500R to 541bhp Evo Lancers, and anything between these. More power than that on this track is almost completely useless outside the back straight since the bumps and rumble strips will keep your tires in the air atleast 15% of the time.

My personal favourite car for Nurb is latest MX-5/Miata. With that car, learning the corners is fun, and as a side effect, you'll learn to control the throttle and drifting. When that car starts to feel too slow, bump the power up or get into RX-8.

and just for fun, you can find my Evo setup from the Tuner garage. try it out on Nurb or anywhere, you won't be disappointed.

 

[Mayuri Ootsuka]

Learnt Nurby playing GPL back in 1999... back then it was a BRM P115 F1 car with a H-16 3-litre pumping out over 400 bhp of pure power only these small high sideway crossply tyres... in the Sim it was by far the heaviest car, a whooping 1584lb, only 720kilos.

Anyhow with the game gcame a nice "players guide" by Steve Smith, 96 pages of stuff that you just don't get in "games" these days.

the advice this guide has, is to lap the track and recognise each section and realise that each has its own rhythm. Like songs on an album. Once you recognise the "intro" to the song, you will be able to dance to it.

Although the model in GT4 is much better quality the actual track is much easier in GT4, the 1967 track doesn't have more than half a mile of Armco fencing, if you make a mistake in GPL you were generally out on the spot, wheels getting ripped off when you hit a tree or a bridge or as mundane as getting stuck in the hedges that back in the day used to surround the track.

Learn slow and build up. In GT4 their are quite a few races that let you get track time without the need to blow the doors off your ride.

And each time you do crash, think that back in 1999 I had to restart again from the pitlane... on bone cold tyres.