[WHAT HAPPENS?] - Let's face it, why is Polyphony Digital so slow in content production?

[PrinceMG]

I don't know why PD are so slow, but as a sidenote:

One of the best simulators on the market today (Assetto Corsa) were created by 4 developers (they are now a few more). Not including the people at 505 that create the console versions.

It's weird if PD use few employees as an excuse.

 

[PorscheHD]

Details its all about the details.....and iam fine with it because the details are far above the competition and as long that is the case iam fine with it.

 

[pedrocor]

Project Cars 2 on PS4 version is the most overrated racing game of the moment.

Visuals are far from the best on PS4, the physics engine feels completely different from the PC version, etc.

And there is a difference in a game whose most of the content come directly from a previous title from the same console generation and other than not.

 

[GTsanz]

They are old past their prime developers. None last forever at the top, their time is long gone. They are phobic and slow of new employees. They are stuck in their own ways blind to the world around them and how things change.

They are excuse makers led by a out of touch kaz. Time to face the PD of past gens no longer exists, Gran Turismo is no longer what GT was. Now its just another game with a 99 problems.

 

[JacksHerer]

GT is like a music band, they get older and don't want to keep singing the same old songs, some fans like the new music, others just want to keep hearing the old songs.

 

[bmxmitch]

Of course there's a lot of things missing in GTS (tracks, weather, day/night, damage models, cars, etc.), but it is still the best racing game available for PS4!
And it will be for a long time

 

[Scaff]

Not denying content is slow from PD. Most of the stuff for GT6 took ages to come out.

But the first Project Cars was a PS4 title, so I'm guessing alot of PC2 was transferred from that, updated and made to look new. Codemasters pretty much do the same every year with the F1 games.

GT6 was a PS3 title, so maybe most of GT Sport has had to be made from scratch for a new platform.

I have Project Cars 2, havnt played it yet though. But I did enjoy the first one.

The problem with that was we were repeatedly told that GT5 and GT6 took so long because they were future proofing the content so it could be used for the PS4!

The thing about GT Sport is that it is designed around having good Esport capabilities, and they have made an excellent stable platform that they can make content and work on for many years. And to make a got esport title, you cant just chuck a lot of unbalanced content in there.

I haven't played PC2, but i think they are prioritizing different ideas and for me they cant really be compared.
Its really like comparing Battlefield vs Call of Duty, its just stupid to begin with

Umm, do you know how large Project Cars is in terms of eSport (both PC and PC2)?

You don't understand.
Also, as someone said, PC2 is a recycled game. It's exactly as PC1 but with some tracks and cars added. They changed the lighting a little, but overall it's the same game.

Please don't make stuff up.

The amount of new content and features in PC2 over the original is seriously significant, overall it's certainly not the same game at all.

Live Track 3.0 and the tyre model changes alone are a huge change over the original title.

 

[JacksHerer]

PS3 operating system was much different to PS4, at the time PD made those future proof statements they didn't expect the underlying language to change, maybe?

 

[thorfynn]

Hey racing-friends.

I agree with many points here:

FACT is:

-GTS has – at the moment – the best graphic. And i mean the PS4 Version (i don´t have an 4K-TV ;-((((( )– not the PS4 Pro… It´s absolutely beautiful – and veeeery smooth

- The game is very stable from start. Although i have to say, that GTS ist he only game until now which caused i crash on my PS4 two times. Black screen and i had to restart the PS…..

BUT Fact is also:

- The content is a bad joke. Not so the number of cars, but the number of tracks is very confusing to me. How much real race-tracks are in the game ? I think one hand is enough to count – ok ok, perhaps one finger more….. ;-)

This is really frightening.


This game calls itself still „The real driving simulator“.....

I ask myself how much manpower PD burned away creating this mighty „Scapes“-thing. Don´t understand me wrong. I really like it . But before you implement such „toys“ into a racing game you should make a racing game first…..

Let´s hope that they bring on some tracks like Monza, Estoril, Spa, Ciruit de Catalunya, Silverstone, Monaco, Laguna Seca and so on….

AND: By all gods. Where is LeMans ? Come on PD. Work harder !!!!!

;-)

Little Wikipedia-fact:

Polyphony Digital:
Employees: 110 (2013).....

I would say thats really a lot of peolpe.... What are the doing the hole day ? ;-)

EDIT: on the japanese site of wikipedia the number of employees is about 1000 !!! (if i was right - my japanese times in school is veeeery long ago. ;-))) )

 

[Scaff]

PS3 operating system was much different to PS4, at the time PD made those future proof statements they didn't expect the underlying language to change, maybe?

They would have know (as a first party studio, with its head on the SCEI board as a VP) before almost anyone, hell they may well have had a say in any changes.

Not that OS system would make a great difference to the assets being future proofed.

Little Wikipedia-fact:

Polyphony Digital:
Employees: 110 (2013).....

I think that's closer to 300 these days.

 

[Phoenixsui]

No Patience these Gamers of today.
New Track and Cars will come with Time.
We could have waited another 2 Years instead and then get more at once.
On YT is also a Video that explanes, why in GTS is less Content compared to FM7. I am to tired to write it all down here. Just Google it.

 

[Daniel55]

Please don't make stuff up.

The amount of new content and features in PC2 over the original is seriously significant, overall it's certainly not the same game at all.

Live Track 3.0 and the tyre model changes alone are a huge change over the original title.

What I wanted to say is that they are using the same engine for PC2. The cars and tracks that are available in PC1 are also in PC2, even the textures are the same. Yes, they added new content to the game, I'm not denying that, but the quality is not the same with the one in GT Sport. And as I said, GT Sport needed things to be redone because the architecture of the PS3 was different and complicated.

Back to OP: don't forget that GT6 was released when the PS4 was already available for purchase. So they started to work for GT Sport later. If GT6 wasn't released for PS3, maybe GT Sport would've been released earlier and with more content. But I don't think they knew the specs of the PS4 so early (after the release of GT5).

 

[Vspectra]

PS3 operating system was much different to PS4, at the time PD made those future proof statements they didn't expect the underlying language to change, maybe?

They didn't figure out tessellation could work on the ps3 until very late in the ps3 life cycle, many car models weren't able to take advantage of that. Kaz's statement about GT5 models being future proof is basically just him trying to think ahead, but obviously sometimes things don't work out as planned.

They basically have infinite polygons to work with on the car models on GTS. I think like with several of Kaz's ambitions and plans during the ps3 era, ultimately the difficulty in working with PS3 hardware despite the large theoretical power it had became a huge roadblock.

 

[baldgye]

This is all my own personal opinion formed from reading about games, GT, Sony and Kaz over the years...

I think that PD up to and including GT4 has been pretty solid. They put out two really great racing games, for each platform that both build on the previous entries.

GT5 was launched on the PS3, a console that, was technically a nightmare to work on. Look at all cross platform games of the era and the 360 versions where usually better, despite the 360 having less inherent power. I think this really messed with PD and how the develop their games and that the scaling up of the team was done poorly. On top of this the PS3 was an online console and day-one patches became a thing to help with the PS3's horrible hardware.

I think that this change in hardware development, the move to HD and the availability screwed with the studio and I’m not sure Kaz is the man to lead such a big ship.

The PS4’s vastly improved hardware must have seemed night and day compared to getting to work on the nightmare that was the PS3, which probably lead Kaz to make statements about the games feature set well before his team was working on them and that he underestimated the development time these new car renders would take. You can draw some pretty strong lines between statements Kaz has made about Sport and stuff Peter Mollenux has said about his games. I don’t think Kaz is anything like as bad as Peter, but I do think he’s become somewhat detached from the development. I think this is why GT6 featured that fully accurate night sky and star map for some silly bloody reason, but still had gameplay issues.

I think eventually they will get Sport right and moving forward the dev cycle will vastly improve. But it will take time I think for them to get used to working on proper hardware again.

Just my thoughts.

 

[eran0004]

The problem with that was we were repeatedly told that GT5 and GT6 took so long because they were future proofing the content so it could be used for the PS4!

Who told you that?

Please don't make stuff up.

 

[Scaff]

What I wanted to say is that they are using the same engine for PC2. The cars and tracks that are available in PC1 are also in PC2, even the textures are the same. Yes, they added new content to the game, I'm not denying that, but the quality is not the same with the one in GT Sport. And as I said, GT Sport needed things to be redone because the architecture of the PS3 was different and complicated.

The core engine may well be the same, but that doesn't mean that large parts of it have not been reworked, as they clearly have.

Keep in mind that you said "It's exactly as PC1 but with some tracks and cars added. They changed the lighting a little, but overall it's the same game."

Now the first part of that is demonstrably untrue (its not just had some cars and tracks added), and the second part is a massive understatement as overall its quite clearly not the same game at all.

Back to OP: don't forget that GT6 was released when the PS4 was already available for purchase. So they started to work for GT Sport later. If GT6 wasn't released for PS3, maybe GT Sport would've been released earlier and with more content. But I don't think they knew the specs of the PS4 so early (after the release of GT5).

They knew the specs of the PS4 at the time of GT6 and were still making these claims, hell they shouldn't have made them about the GT5 models (and they clearly said they were beyond the PS3 at that time) if they didn't know it to be correct! Not that its stopped them repeating the same sort of claims again.

Who told you that?

Kaz did (and it was repeated by members here constantly as the reason for long Dev times and why the next GT would take less time to arrive).

For GT5
https://www.gtplanet.net/gt5s-premium-cars-go-beyond-ps3s-capabilities/

Oh and again for GTS
https://www.finder.com.au/gran-turismo-8k-playstation-5

 

[IngRobNy]

They knew the specs of the PS4 at the time of GT6 and were still making these claims, hell they shouldn't have made them about the GT5 models (and they clearly said they were beyond the PS3 at that time) if they didn't know it to be correct! Not that its stopped them repeating the same sort of claims again.

But it also says this:

However, since he made those comments, things may have changed according to more recent contradictory reports which hint GT6 may require another 5 years of development – something which would make sense if they now plan to release the game on the next generation of PlayStation hardware…

So maybe it wasn't that easy after all? And if it wasn't that easy and PD are using 6 months to make a car:

Then he said the following: "It takes six months to create a single car.

So now i know this, i'm not so sure PD have all content ready yet, but at least for me it dosen't matter, new content in GT S is worth the wait.

 

[Daniel55]

" but overall it's the same game."

What I want to say with this phrase is that they are using the same engine. So they didn't spend time developing a new one. They improved some elements. And that took them 2 years; to develop more tracks and cars for an engine that was already created

They knew the specs of the PS4 at the time of GT6 and were still making these claims, hell they shouldn't have made them about the GT5 models (and they clearly said they were beyond the PS3 at that time) if they didn't know it to be correct! Not that its stopped them repeating the same sort of claims again.

I wanted to say that after GT5 was released they didn't know the specs for the PS4. So they started working on GT6, spending time for releasing the game on PS3. At one point, they knew the specs, but they didn't stop working for GT6. That's why GT Sport wasn't released faster.

In the end I'm trying to say that others have built the games with engines that were already working for this generation, while PD spent time on creating/improving the engine, then creating the cars/tracks.

I don't want you to think that I hate PCars, it's a good game, but the quality is inferior (at least for me)

 

[Johnnypenso]

Details its all about the details.....and iam fine with it because the details are far above the competition and as long that is the case iam fine with it.

How are the physics details in GTS? Tuning details? How detailed is the damage model? How detailed is the weather?

 

[PorscheHD]

Haha the mods or not a fan of GT anymore

But again, why cant people accept that Poly is just Poly? I agree there are missing some thing but still this game is more “done” then all the others.

I get some of u guys frustration what i dont get is the constant discussions about it.

They are updating the game very good something what the competion cant say.

The cars and the track will come. And of you think that it is crap and stays crap or you dont like the way they do things them there enough racing games you can do these days.

GT is perfection and i think you can see that as soon you boot the game up. Perfection takes time and Poly is maybe to perfect......

But still i play the game with 19 others races everyday FLAWLESS online! Something that just is not posible with any other racing game.

This site omce started as fan site but now is a well i dont now what it is but even the people behind it are less and less GT minded. I think that makes this mote toxic everyday. A shame.....


Well let the warning come

Please people instead of worrying so much play the or A game you like its very relaxing!

 

[Scaff]

But it also says this:

However, since he made those comments, things may have changed according to more recent contradictory reports which hint GT6 may require another 5 years of development – something which would make sense if they now plan to release the game on the next generation of PlayStation hardware…

So maybe it wasn't that easy after all? And if it wasn't that easy and PD are using 6 months to make a car:

Then he said the following: "It takes six months to create a single car.

So now i know this, i'm not so sure PD have all content ready yet, but at least for me it dosen't matter, new content in GT S is worth the wait.

That's the issue. PD and Kaz are past and present masters of the contradictory statement. You would think after the back track on 'future-proof' PS3 era models they would not repeat the same thing, yet we have exactly that being done.

What I want to say with this phrase is that they are using the same engine. So they didn't spend time developing a new one. They improved some elements. And that took them 2 years; to develop more tracks and cars for an engine that was already created

Which I would agree with you on if the engine was exactly the same, but its not. Nor was the new content limited to cars and tracks.

I wanted to say that after GT5 was released they didn't know the specs for the PS4. So they started working on GT6, spending time for releasing the game on PS3. At one point, they knew the specs, but they didn't stop working for GT6. That's why GT Sport wasn't released faster.

In the end I'm trying to say that others have built the games with engines that were already working for this generation, while PD spent time on creating/improving the engine, then creating the cars/tracks.

I don't want you to think that I hate PCars, it's a good game, but the quality is inferior (at least for me)

Define quality.

In terms of visuals GTS has it in spades and is easily the best looking racing title on the PS4.

In terms of the quality of the physics engine, tyre model, FFB, external wheel/pedal/app/button box support, track surface detail and quite a bit more, then no GTS is not of a higher quality.

Haha the mods or not a fan of GT anymore

But again, why cant people accept that Poly is just Poly? I agree there are missing some thing but still this game is more “done” then all the others.

I get some of u guys frustration what i dont get is the constant discussions about it.

They are updating the game very good something what the competion cant say.

The cars and the track will come. And of you think that it is crap and stays crap or you dont like the way they do things them there enough racing games you can do these days.

GT is perfection and i think you can see that as soon you boot the game up. Perfection takes time and Poly is maybe to perfect......

But still i play the game with 19 others races everyday FLAWLESS online! Something that just is not posible with any other racing game.

This site omce started as fan site but now is a well i dont now what it is but even the people behind it are less and less GT minded. I think that makes this mote toxic everyday. A shame.....


Well let the warning come

Please people instead of worrying so much play the or A game you like its very relaxing!

Its a discussion forum, discussions are the point. If you would like to only have commentary you approve of then you are in the wrong place.

However, no GTS is not perfection, in a number of areas its still quite a long way from it.

 

[JacksHerer]

I've spent 2 hours trying to create a decal under 15kb that isn't blurry lol

I can have patience for PD

I guess a lot of time was developing and playing around with an HDR camera

 

[IngRobNy]

How are the physics details in GTS?

It's great, i haven noticed any big differences between PC 1 and 2, AC or GT S all played on PS4 of course.

Tuning details?

Also great, it's all i really need for tuning.

How detailed is the damage model?

I don't have that on, but the scratches in the paint after hitting a wall etc is great.

How detailed is the weather?

Very detailed rain effect, we have also rain puddles like PC 2:

And rain drops on the front shield, not as much as PC 1 or 2, but enoght:

 

[PorscheHD]

How are the physics details in GTS? Tuning details? How detailed is the damage model? How detailed is the weather?

Psysics are fine for me because if i want to race for real i get in my car. O amd for me is controller gamer (the most) is this the best game out there.

Tuning? I dont care go plat Need For Speed.

Damage? Dont care because i wont crash.

Weather it will come.

You can bitch all you want on this game and as long you want but i dont change anything. The sales are more then okay and the races are always full so they are doing something good right?

The point is;

First, everybody want something else fron this or any game.

Second, u guys have so many time to bitch about GT Sport that i think that the other racing games that are getting in the discussion everytime are also not what you want otherwise why complain of you can have something better?

Just getting tired of all the wining about the game, a game that is comperd with other games in general more then good with little bugs. And yes i will get a massega now about the rules blabla

But once i came here to read post from other GT fans now it looks like i read everyday about how crap this game is what is missing etc etc

Being critial is fine but at one point everyone just need to execpt this game for what it is because its out for months now..... all the conplains are old amd most of them wont change. This is GT now.....

Just like i accepted that PC2 is crap for me and i wasted 60,- on it AGAIN just like PC1 for me was crap. Do you see me wine on that forum about how bad it is?

Updates will come and make this game better and better.....

I will stop now because i also know that its a endless discussion.

Have a nice day all, going home now to race some dailys with the biggest smile on my face that i can make.

 

[JacksHerer]

I don't know how puddles or shadows work in other games, but having a live shadow and user decals reflected in puddles blows me away.

 

[Daniel55]

That's the issue. PD and Kaz are past and present masters of the contradictory statement. You would think after the back track on 'future-proof' PS3 era models they would not repeat the same thing, yet we have exactly that being done.



Which I would agree with you on if the engine was exactly the same, but its not. Nor was the new content limited to cars and tracks.


Define quality.

In terms of visuals GTS has it in spades and is easily the best looking racing title on the PS4.

In terms of the quality of the physics engine, tyre model, FFB, external wheel/pedal/app/button box support, track surface detail and quite a bit more, then no GTS is not of a higher quality.



Its a discussion forum, discussions are the point. If you would like to only have commentary you approve of then you are in the wrong place.

However, no GTS is not perfection, in a number of areas its still quite a long way from it.

But, you just said in a post above that it's the same engine, improved; which I agreed on.

When I'm referring to quality, I'm referring to quality overall , which for me is better in GT Sport. It's more polished, as you said, the graphics are very good, car models as well. Yes, it can be improved, like you said: physics, tyre model etc. But neither Pcars2's physics are perfect.
And as I said, these are my opinions, I'm not speaking here for everyone, of course your opinion might be different, otherwise the world would be borring

 

[CJ1045]

When you actually play these games you realise that GT Sport graphics look real. PC2 and Forza 7 they don't. The differences can be quite subtle but the resulting difference is considerable. GT Sport also feels right whereas the other two don''t. They are all enjoyable but, for me, GT Sport stands out quite a long way.

CJ

 

[BrunusCL82]

Haha the mods or not a fan of GT anymore

But again, why cant people accept that Poly is just Poly? I agree there are missing some thing but still this game is more “done” then all the others.

I get some of u guys frustration what i dont get is the constant discussions about it.

They are updating the game very good something what the competion cant say.

The cars and the track will come. And of you think that it is crap and stays crap or you dont like the way they do things them there enough racing games you can do these days.

GT is perfection and i think you can see that as soon you boot the game up. Perfection takes time and Poly is maybe to perfect......

But still i play the game with 19 others races everyday FLAWLESS online! Something that just is not posible with any other racing game.

This site omce started as fan site but now is a well i dont now what it is but even the people behind it are less and less GT minded. I think that makes this mote toxic everyday. A shame.....


Well let the warning come

Please people instead of worrying so much play the or A game you like its very relaxing!

Do not confuse a video game enthusiastic site with a cultist site or church site.

I think it's great and honest that the GtPlanet site allows discussions. This is mature and intelligent.

GtPlanet is not a fanboys site. GtPlanet is not a cult. I'm really glad about it.

If you want a church or place of worship, here is not your place.

 

[IngRobNy]

When you actually play these games you realise that GT Sport graphics look real. PC2 and Forza 7 they don't. The differences can be quite subtle but the resulting difference is considerable. GT Sport also feels right whereas the other two don''t. They are all enjoyable but, for me, GT Sport stands out quite a long way.

Agree, just look how much better GT S is compared to the others and look at the blurry surface in PC 2, i can't remember the track looked like this in PC 1:

 

[gtracedriver1]

Pcars2 is having great track list and dynamic TOD, weather one would thought this would be the racing game of this gen. But it is simply a copy and paste game and no wonder that game bombed. Pcars was released when PS4 din't have much games so may be that is the reason it did well.

GTS, is made from scratch. I do not think their next game will be from scratch so I would think 200 more cars and hopefully 15 more tracks will be added so content wise it be good. I also hope dynamic TOD and weather is implemented along with proper GT mode with other improvements like gameplay, AI, sound etc ..