What is 'Clean' and what is 'Dirty'?

[McClarenDesign]

There's a group of traveling trolls that I came across last night. About 6-7 people, looking for clean rooms to play bumper cars in. I knew something was up when one asked another what he thought, and he responded with "2". At the start, with me behind them, they just did donuts to wreck the others.

If you see this happen before a race, just kick everyone that just joined or you don't know.

 

[AJ11]

Yea I've seen kids do that! If you wanna do donuts and run the road that's why they make grand theft auto. on the other hand I've had kids freak out over contact. Just contact they start screaming and swearing. It's great when they're freaking out and try and come back at you,but there so mad they forget how to drive and just fly off each corner! Oh to be 10 again.

 

[Deadpool]

Dirty to me, would be bumping/using others for brakes, not being able to stay close without constantly hitting the other person.

If you are racing close and accidentally nudge someone while passing on the inside.... if it pushes them off line, concede the position back to them and try to pass them later. If you were to nudge them off line and then keep going, that's dirty/cheap.

For those complaining about "dive bombing"..... they haven't been watching much racing as this is a very basic pass. The complaint that "well I take a smooth line" is not a excuse for you leaving the door open, YOU need to be aware of your surroundings. YOU need to take a defensive driving line, yes it's slower, but it keeps you in front. You can switch back to your faster line once you have gotten the other guy off your back. The key is doing it cleanly and without causing a wreck. If you leave the door open, and I can late brake you without causing a crash..... you better believe I'm going to take it. Yes it ruins my exit speed, but the odds are I'll be right in front of you at apex keeping you from passing me. That's racing.

 

[Jubby]

For those complaining about "dive bombing"..... they haven't been watching much racing as this is a very basic pass.

That sums up my thought here. A clean shot in a braking zone to the inside of a car "makes" a hole. Since the driver chose the out-in route, if the "-in" portion isn't available, they have the responsibility to not crowd the inside lane. This is obviously only when a majority of the car (50% or more) is aside. The driver in front can choose to make their one move(as is tradition) to the inside to block the "dive bomb". On a wide track that's tough, but that's why it's racing.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I'm in referring to dive-bombers that don't have a gap, but make one anyway. The people that go into turns too fast, and expect to use your car to straighten them out.

You're talking about Senna's dive bombs, when there was a disappearing gap.

 

[Deadpool]

I'm in referring to dive-bombers that don't have a gap, but make one anyway. The people that go into turns too fast, and expect to use your car to straighten them out.

You're talking about Senna's dive bombs, when there was a disappearing gap.

The first one isn't really dive bombing though........ it's bad driving. Dive bombing is braking as late as possible to make a pass, knowing that it will compromise your exit speed but gain you the position.

 

[McClarenDesign]

The first one isn't really dive bombing though........ it's bad driving. Dive bombing is braking as late as possible to make a pass, knowing that it will compromise your exit speed but gain you the position.

I've only heard its use in the former, the latter being fully acceptable, so long as the contact is minimal and doesn't compromise the defender, as you mentioned earlier. It is a fine line to balance, so one shouldn't attempt it "hoping" it works. If you don't KNOW it'll work, then it shouldn't be attempted.

If you intentionally drive into a disappearing gap on turn entry, plowing through the turn and ramming the defender off line or track, you should be penalized and give up the position immediately.

 

[McKiernan]

I think part of the problem with this "divebombing" or block passing is that the view people use doesn't allow you to get a good enough idea of where exactly the other cars are around you. Sometimes a leading driver is taking his/her normal wide line in & isn't aware of the overtaking car on the inside & proceeds as normal. Contact ensues & the lead driver assumes he/she's been used as a break by a dirty driver. It's a tricky one, using the options to zoom in on the mini map can help give you a better idea of where the other cars are or using mirrors & side view but it's far from ideal.

Real dirty driving such as, ramming, swerving all over the track, breakchecking, pit-manoeuvres etc all that is much easier to identify.

 

[Johnnypenso]

GTPlanet Rules clearly point out what is an acceptable pass and what is not. If we all played by the same rules the game would be a lot more fun. Most guys I've seen who think they can outbrake me or go for a decreasing gap, almost always run into me because I can't be outbraked and I'm turning into the apex when they come from 100 feet back and use me as a guardrail. The game provides for plenty of straight track and enough draft on most tracks that if you can't get close enough to pass me or anyone else with the draft and need to "outbrake" me, you aren't going to make the pass stick anyway because you aren't good enough.

 

[isildur]

"Clean" is with the Mrs/Ms and "Dirty"is with the Mistress...

 

[carracerptp]

GTPlanet Rules clearly point out what is an acceptable pass and what is not. If we all played by the same rules the game would be a lot more fun. Most guys I've seen who think they can outbrake me or go for a decreasing gap, almost always run into me because I can't be outbraked and I'm turning into the apex when they come from 100 feet back and use me as a guardrail. The game provides for plenty of straight track and enough draft on most tracks that if you can't get close enough to pass me or anyone else with the draft and need to "outbrake" me, you aren't going to make the pass stick anyway because you aren't good enough.

Well said 👍
If you are in a good race with anyone, unless your car has an extreme braking distance advantage you really can't out brake them.

 

[Gendou]

Few people race clean, they always hit you like kamikazes LOL

 

[porthillking]

Few people race clean, they always hit you like kamikazes LOL

That could just be the people you race with. As stated earlier in other threads, rooms with pp restrictions, and less grippier tires, tend to have more experienced racers, who are usually cleaner.

 

[Eric W]

There are different types of "Dirty" drivers. There are "Dirty" rooms where there are still rules that have to abide by but the typical "Dirty" driver is someone that has absolutely no respect for anyone's else on the track. He will cut corners, ram into you, drive backwards on the track with the sole intent in ruining the race.

There is a huge misconception on what constitutes a "Dirty" driver. Many people think that if someone bumps into you or accidently wrecks you that the other person is racing dirty.

A clean driver is someone how will actually race with you without intentionally trying to wreck you. I've raced in plenty of online rooms and I can usually tell when someone is racing dirty or if it was just a racing incident. You can be aggressive and still be a clean driver.

 

[bluexterra]

"Clean" is with the Mrs/Ms and "Dirty"is with the Mistress...

My Mrs. is dirty, so I don't need the mistress......

🤬

🤬

 

[avloc]

I rate a race full of clean driving in which I come last infinitely higher than a race full of dirty driving in which I come first.

My heart lifts when i'm braking for a corner and the guy tailgaiting me brakes first and backs off a bit. It happens quite a bit, even in free run rooms.

 

[AJ11]

How about kamikaze bombing! When the guy behind you doesn't bother to hit his breaks when your half way around the turn. then lines up to hit you at a 90° angle forcing you to spin,and slide off in to the sand. As he slams off the side of your car taking you're line cuz now he's at the correct speed for the turn. then in a flailing recovery drives away!(into another car) is that better? I've always called it dive bomb. Didn't know it was already a thing.

 

[McClarenDesign]

How about kamikaze bombing! When the guy behind you doesn't bother to hit his breaks when your half way around the turn. then lines up to hit you at a 90° angle forcing you to spin,and slide off in to the sand. As he slams off the side of your car taking you're line cuz now he's at the correct speed for the turn. then in a flailing recovery drives away!(into another car) is that better? I've always called it dive bomb. Didn't know it was already a thing.

See previous posts

 

[Deadpool]

GTPlanet Rules clearly point out what is an acceptable pass and what is not. If we all played by the same rules the game would be a lot more fun. Most guys I've seen who think they can outbrake me or go for a decreasing gap, almost always run into me because I can't be outbraked and I'm turning into the apex when they come from 100 feet back and use me as a guardrail. The game provides for plenty of straight track and enough draft on most tracks that if you can't get close enough to pass me or anyone else with the draft and need to "outbrake" me, you aren't going to make the pass stick anyway because you aren't good enough.

This is simply not true. For instance, I'm in a league right now that gives PP penalties based on the prior weeks position. At the moment I'm down 60pp to some drivers which means they kill me down the straight. Many times I have to outbrake them into corners to get past them. You have to do this cleanly though, and have enough sense to know when not to try it. My car also has really great brakes which helps.

As was stated earlier, part of the problem is the lack of visibility to the sides. One person is taking the "gap" while the other guy has no clue about it. It's partly the guy in fronts fault if he's not paying attention to his mirrors and just blindly turning in. I also use cockpit view which gives me a lot of extra peripheral vision, and if I see someone to my inside, I adjust my line accordingly. This is racing.

If passing were only done on the straights, there would barely be any passing in racing. This is especially the case when two cars/drivers are nearly equal in performance.

 

[smellyeti]

What 90% of GT5 racers lack is track awareness. So many times I'll be holding my line in a corner and somebody that overshot the turn and gets back on the track will collide with my car. I have never claimed to be the cleanest driver out there but at least I know where the other cars are that are around me. The fact is most people just flat out don't care about being clean. I joined a Le Mans series last year and it was fun and clean. Too bad my schedule didn't allow me to race with them more.

 

[Deadpool]

What 90% of GT5 racers lack is track awareness. So many times I'll be holding my line in a corner and somebody that overshot the turn and gets back on the track will collide with my car. I have never claimed to be the cleanest driver out there but at least I know where the other cars are that are around me. The fact is most people just flat out don't care about being clean. I joined a Le Mans series last year and it was fun and clean. Too bad my schedule didn't allow me to race with them more.

Exactly. Many guys can post fast times, but put them into a group and they have no clue where the other drivers are. Not only that, you need to anticipate what another driver is going to do.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Exactly. Many guys can post fast times, but put them into a group and they have no clue where the other drivers are. Not only that, you need to anticipate what another driver is going to do.

Like this?

​

 

[Deadpool]

Like this?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQOnOXXc-ps">YouTube Link</a>

Always loved this video, excellent display of driving.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This is simply not true. For instance, I'm in a league right now that gives PP penalties based on the prior weeks position. At the moment I'm down 60pp to some drivers which means they kill me down the straight. Many times I have to outbrake them into corners to get past them. You have to do this cleanly though, and have enough sense to know when not to try it. My car also has really great brakes which helps.

As was stated earlier, part of the problem is the lack of visibility to the sides. One person is taking the "gap" while the other guy has no clue about it. It's partly the guy in fronts fault if he's not paying attention to his mirrors and just blindly turning in. I also use cockpit view which gives me a lot of extra peripheral vision, and if I see someone to my inside, I adjust my line accordingly. This is racing.

If passing were only done on the straights, there would barely be any passing in racing. This is especially the case when two cars/drivers are nearly equal in performance.

What isn't true? GTPlanet does clearly define what is an acceptable pass and what is not. Your group is obviously operating by a different set of rules. And if visibility to the sides is a problem as you say, how do you expect a lead driver to make a decision in a tenth of a second to make room for someone divebombing him on the inside. It's just something that can't be done with any consistency, often results in contact, and that's why GTPlanet made their rules to read the way they did, they make allowances for the lack of vision and the fact that you don't have all the sensory input you would in a real car.

If one uses the map scale "2" you have perfect visibilty of all cars within one second of you and it's to scale, so if a car looks like it's slightly ahead of your rear bumper on the map, then it is on the track as well. I've used that scale from the beginning of GT5 and have never had a problem knowing who was around me at all times and where they were.

I don't know how anyone can say that if passing were only done on the straights there's would hardly be any passing. You can come from 1+ second back on a good straight and catch and pass someone easily. Only a couple of the shortest, twistiest tracks like Eiger have little draft effect. And even there, and Tsukuba and the like, all it takes is to get a slight advantage exiting the corner + the draft and it's all a skilled driver needs to get by.

I raced in the Alfa Zagato Spec Series where the cars were dead equal, 178 hp or something like that, no handicaps, SS tires, and a lot of really good drivers and there was loads of passing. Many races in the series came down to a draft battle to the flag.

 

[Deadpool]

What isn't true? GTPlanet does clearly define what is an acceptable pass and what is not. Your group is obviously operating by a different set of rules. And if visibility to the sides is a problem as you say, how do you expect a lead driver to make a decision in a tenth of a second to make room for someone divebombing him on the inside. It's just something that can't be done with any consistency, often results in contact, and that's why GTPlanet made their rules to read the way they did, they make allowances for the lack of vision and the fact that you don't have all the sensory input you would in a real car.

The "untrue" part was your comment that of you can't pass on the straight that you're not good enough.

The lead driver should be paying attention to his mirrors. I can easily see if someone is going to try to take the inside under braking. You have to be oblivious to not notice these things. With interior view I have the benefit of seeing more to the side as well.

To say that proper passing is on the straights means you don't really understand racing.

If one uses the map scale "2" you have perfect visibilty of all cars within one second of you and it's to scale, so if a car looks like it's slightly ahead of your rear bumper on the map, then it is on the track as well. I've used that scale from the beginning of GT5 and have never had a problem knowing who was around me at all times and where they were.

Why are you using a map? Use your mirrors, that's what they are there for.

I don't know how anyone can say that if passing were only done on the straights there's would hardly be any passing. You can come from 1+ second back on a good straight and catch and pass someone easily. Only a couple of the shortest, twistiest tracks like Eiger have little draft effect. And even there, and Tsukuba and the like, all it takes is to get a slight advantage exiting the corner + the draft and it's all a skilled driver needs to get by.

Go watch F1, half the passes are on the straights and the other half are under braking. Crying foul about late braking is ridiculous.

I raced in the Alfa Zagato Spec Series where the cars were dead equal, 178 hp or something like that, no handicaps, SS tires, and a lot of really good drivers and there was loads of passing. Many races in the series came down to a draft battle to the flag.

Now remove 60pp from your car relative to the others and let me know how well you do passing on the straight.

Yes equal cars make it easier to pass on the straight. But let's say you use the draft but cant make the pass on the straight.......do you try to outbrake him or wait another lap. If the door is there, get him under braking. Otherwise he will hold you up for a lap.

 

[Racedude]

One thing: Do you guys think the "one move per straight" rule should count too in very long straights, like in Le Mans (No chicanes), or SSR7, even after one has been passed?

 

[Z1-AV69]

One thing: Do you guys think the "one move per straight" rule should count too in very long straights, like in Le Mans (No chicanes), or SSR7, even after one has been passed?

Imho the "one move per straight" should only be a matter if it comes to physical blocking, not if it's only about slipstream. But with blocking it should count always and of course you cannot block at all if it's too late so it can make the other hit you.

 

[phil_75]

Clean is taking your Mum to church.

Dirty is what you do when you're in your bedroom alone with that special old sock of yours!

Sorry I really should know better!

 

[Johnnypenso]

The "untrue" part was your comment that of you can't pass on the straight that you're not good enough.

The lead driver should be paying attention to his mirrors. I can easily see if someone is going to try to take the inside under braking. You have to be oblivious to not notice these things. With interior view I have the benefit of seeing more to the side as well.

To say that proper passing is on the straights means you don't really understand racing.



Why are you using a map? Use your mirrors, that's what they are there for.



Go watch F1, half the passes are on the straights and the other half are under braking. Crying foul about late braking is ridiculous.



Now remove 60pp from your car relative to the others and let me know how well you do passing on the straight.

Yes equal cars make it easier to pass on the straight. But let's say you use the draft but cant make the pass on the straight.......do you try to outbrake him or wait another lap. If the door is there, get him under braking. Otherwise he will hold you up for a lap.

Dude, I have raced professionally, I think I can speak with some authority on the subject thank you very much. You are missing the point completely. In any online race series you can make up your own rules, you're not obliged to follow GTPlanet Rules. I'm talking about the GTPLanet Rules of Racing, which provide a fair and equitable set of rules for everyone to follow, which if followed, provide for clean, incident free racing.

Your F1 example is completely irrelevant. F1 drivers have much more control over their vehicles than GT5 drivers. F1 drivers have years and years of professional racing under their belt, the guy beside you on the grid in a GT5 race, likely hasn't raced anything faster than his Mom's VW Passat or perhaps a go kart rental slug at the local track. F1 has spotters, live radio feeds, and much more comprehensive sensory input than racing in your living room on a tv screen. There are several viewpoints in GT5, some of which don't come with a mirror. And most guys have enough trouble with braking and cornering that to require them to continuously watch the mirror even as they've begun their turn-in just so you can squeeze into the last mm of real estate on the inside of the corner just isn't realistic.

The point is, there are various levels of skill and experience in GT5, and the GTPLanet Rules of Racing allow for that and provide for a good experience for everyone. If you choose to enter a series where you are 60PP down and they allow you to outbrake someone, good for you, you're the man, way to go. But that won't work in the majority of race lobbies or even the majority of race series. What you call outbraking, is, under the GTPlanet Rules, what is commonly know as divebombing and most of the time it doesn't work and guys are pinballing each other in the corners because they missed the braking point by a couple of metres.

 

[NjLowrider]

I disagree. Late braking is a viable option and the lead car should be aware of a car that is trying for his inside and stay wide to avoid contact. most often times the late braking car will swing wide on exit and allow the awesome "criss cross applesauce" maneuver to be made by the original leader.

There are multiple "lines"...

The problem in gt5 is, NO ONE allows a clean pass without getting ENRAGED..

If it was real life, and a bit of contact could ruin your day/week/month/life.. You better believe the lead car would give up some room to avoid contact.

That's racing boys..