The events feel more like track days than anything. The few events that the AI felt competitive were the 10 lappers after beating the game but unfortunately they get ruined by the dumb weather system much of the time. If it's sunny when a race starts then why is it pouring rain 5 minutes later? Then you add in the unrealistic tire and fuel usage and once again it doesn't feel anything like a real race. Realism is thrown out the window at every turn.
What is Pd's massive obsession with cheating one way rubberband ai and catch the rabbit events?
- Thread starter mercgoat
- 95 comments
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- 1,726
- Chicago, USA
Yes, I can be going at high speed on racing lines. For the purpose of this thread, there seems to be questions if the ai does the same.
It definitely falls into the racing game category of video games. The type of racing game may be up for debate. It's not clear to me that GT7 is trying to simulate motorsport. The game has car collector points.
Lomic
Premium
- 4,245
- Concarneau
- Lomic2
sorry but I won't bother, what's the point of watching an uncertain amount of gameplay to see if I can spot IA driving crappy while I've experienced first hand them doing day after day ?
maybe you have an excellent level of driving so you don't do mistakes that put you in a spot where you can be jostled by the IA
that's not my case, and I'd appreciate if they could use a bit of sportmanship
oh yeah he tried so hard
give me a break 
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
After doing an 8 hour endurance race against expert AI on Saturday, the AI only gets worse the longer the race is.
It's as if they're programmed to keep you in a certain spot for certain 'stages' of the race. The further the race progresses, the further up you're 'allowed' to be in the grid order. They also drive by completely different physics when it starts raining.
The most blatant rubber banding happens when your pit stops are out of sync with the AI. The AI pits early, falls behind (a pit stop on N24 custom race takes 40 to 50 seconds) then somehow catches up the 40 seconds it fell behind and barges through you to reclaim their position. But at least they have the courtesy to slow down when you pit and are now 50 seconds behind...
The AI sets ridiculous fastest lap times when it wants to catch up (although most go unnoticed as they usually boost on out laps) Back markers will crash past you while still getting the blue flag after barging past, then disappear ahead, until you find them going slow again a while later.
Don't bother trying to stay ahead at the end of the race, that's not how you win. The AI will stay in boost magic grip mode all the way, clinging to your bumper and trying to dive on you if not bumping you wide. When they pass, they still have half a minute of boost left, so if you make the tiniest mistake in the last lap, you lose. There is not creating a gap with pit strategy, they make up 40 sec in half a lap while you're setting your fastest lap times.
To win is very easy. Let them go ahead at least half a minute before reaching the finish. They will go up ahead a bit but no more than 6 seconds or so. Then after a while they slow down, lose their boost, and you can pass them for an easy victory.
Here is the 8h race with all the interactions with the AI (starting from 4 minutes in)
I tried staying ahead at the end to see if it was possible but I touched a kerb, AI flew by and instead of always easily passing them on the straight, the AI still had the boost and stayed ahead. A victory feels hollow anyway when the AI can set a 30 sec faster lap time when it feels the need to catch up.
When the track gets wet they don't seem to feel any effect until the rain meter fills two segments. Then they slow down to max 90kph and just drive in a line, until they can pit and change tires. Then they get the magic boost again to catch up and are much faster on wets than you can be. Also when the track is drying hey change to regular tires quickly and don't seem to have much of a problem with the still wet sections of the track. If you touch those on regular tires, you're gone.
The AI is just there for entertainment, too bad the paltry credit rewards are tied to beating the clown AI.
It's as if they're programmed to keep you in a certain spot for certain 'stages' of the race. The further the race progresses, the further up you're 'allowed' to be in the grid order. They also drive by completely different physics when it starts raining.
The most blatant rubber banding happens when your pit stops are out of sync with the AI. The AI pits early, falls behind (a pit stop on N24 custom race takes 40 to 50 seconds) then somehow catches up the 40 seconds it fell behind and barges through you to reclaim their position. But at least they have the courtesy to slow down when you pit and are now 50 seconds behind...
The AI sets ridiculous fastest lap times when it wants to catch up (although most go unnoticed as they usually boost on out laps) Back markers will crash past you while still getting the blue flag after barging past, then disappear ahead, until you find them going slow again a while later.
Don't bother trying to stay ahead at the end of the race, that's not how you win. The AI will stay in boost magic grip mode all the way, clinging to your bumper and trying to dive on you if not bumping you wide. When they pass, they still have half a minute of boost left, so if you make the tiniest mistake in the last lap, you lose. There is not creating a gap with pit strategy, they make up 40 sec in half a lap while you're setting your fastest lap times.
To win is very easy. Let them go ahead at least half a minute before reaching the finish. They will go up ahead a bit but no more than 6 seconds or so. Then after a while they slow down, lose their boost, and you can pass them for an easy victory.
Here is the 8h race with all the interactions with the AI (starting from 4 minutes in)
I tried staying ahead at the end to see if it was possible but I touched a kerb, AI flew by and instead of always easily passing them on the straight, the AI still had the boost and stayed ahead. A victory feels hollow anyway when the AI can set a 30 sec faster lap time when it feels the need to catch up.
When the track gets wet they don't seem to feel any effect until the rain meter fills two segments. Then they slow down to max 90kph and just drive in a line, until they can pit and change tires. Then they get the magic boost again to catch up and are much faster on wets than you can be. Also when the track is drying hey change to regular tires quickly and don't seem to have much of a problem with the still wet sections of the track. If you touch those on regular tires, you're gone.
The AI is just there for entertainment, too bad the paltry credit rewards are tied to beating the clown AI.
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PirovacBoy
Premium
- 1,460
- Cologne/Germany
- PirovacBoy
I really wish for Sophy to be included in GT7, many Sophys‘ to be honest 😅
Although I love racing the usual AI which is good enough for my likings but a proper Race against this supadupa SciFi AI is already making me nervous.
Hope it gets implemented soon 😁
Although I love racing the usual AI which is good enough for my likings but a proper Race against this supadupa SciFi AI is already making me nervous.
Hope it gets implemented soon 😁
Lomic
Premium
- 4,245
- Concarneau
- Lomic2
Tried WTC 800 Monza on lunch with my trusty Tom's, did not paid attention that I was not to 100% power setting, so my PP was in the 725's instead of the 750's she can reach.
Got roasted and finished 10. And every turn exit I was watching them flying away in front of me. Must be me doing poor exits, right ?
Went to check the HP of most of the cars in the race, ok, everybody is minimum 50HP when it is not more than 100HP more (Portilla who allways win with the 668HP of his Viper was the biggest of the lot). I am already a low level driver, if every IA has more power than me, maybe there is something to try.
I considered buying the same car as one of my Gr.3 opponents but I did not know which one to choose. I really love the Viper, but I was afraid it would be a bit too much for my skills.
So tonight I tried the Gr3 Stealth Mazda, to see if it would be easier to fight in that same race. I began by doing some time trial, with RH tyres just to check the car. Did 2 laps only, first time on that car, with not the best braking spots. Did immediately after 2 laps with the Tom's on RS (power restored to the max) with my braking spots quite fine. The Mazda was 5s faster on the best lap... Ok I have to try it on the race.
Gave it some RS for her first time with opponents and started the race.
Suddenly I was much better at keeping ground on exits, and passing easily on the straights. Climbed my way up much more easily. In the end I finished 2nd, Portilla being 18s in front, impossible to catch, I have to lower my lap times more (and push my braking spots a bit farther, when tyres are still good). But my worst lap was 3s less than my best time with the Tom's...
Really enjoyed discovering that new car.
IA did no do to much weird things except braking for no reason, at least they did not punt me this time, I was either to far in front or waiting behind.
Portilla will be hard to catch.
Got roasted and finished 10. And every turn exit I was watching them flying away in front of me. Must be me doing poor exits, right ?
Went to check the HP of most of the cars in the race, ok, everybody is minimum 50HP when it is not more than 100HP more (Portilla who allways win with the 668HP of his Viper was the biggest of the lot). I am already a low level driver, if every IA has more power than me, maybe there is something to try.
I considered buying the same car as one of my Gr.3 opponents but I did not know which one to choose. I really love the Viper, but I was afraid it would be a bit too much for my skills.
So tonight I tried the Gr3 Stealth Mazda, to see if it would be easier to fight in that same race. I began by doing some time trial, with RH tyres just to check the car. Did 2 laps only, first time on that car, with not the best braking spots. Did immediately after 2 laps with the Tom's on RS (power restored to the max) with my braking spots quite fine. The Mazda was 5s faster on the best lap... Ok I have to try it on the race.
Gave it some RS for her first time with opponents and started the race.
Suddenly I was much better at keeping ground on exits, and passing easily on the straights. Climbed my way up much more easily. In the end I finished 2nd, Portilla being 18s in front, impossible to catch, I have to lower my lap times more (and push my braking spots a bit farther, when tyres are still good). But my worst lap was 3s less than my best time with the Tom's...
Really enjoyed discovering that new car.
IA did no do to much weird things except braking for no reason, at least they did not punt me this time, I was either to far in front or waiting behind.
Portilla will be hard to catch.
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Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
I could be wrong on this, but I'm fairly certain the only reason why chase the rabbit was even implemented from GT5 onward was because Polyphony needed to do something fast to make GT5 actually run worth a damn in the framerate department, and spreading out the grid and making them relatively static in terms of fight and give was the quickest way to do that. And they've simply kept on using it because they don't see a big problem with the way the AI has been implemented even after they've been lapped by the rest of the industry in that regard.
- 1,251
- Australia
You're never going to race against SOPHY, that AI is not made for GT7 single player races whatsoever
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Lomic
Premium
- 4,245
- Concarneau
- Lomic2
And ? What's your point ? We obviously do not have the same skills.
My point is "it is really easier for me with this Mazda than with the Tom's"
It does not preclude anyone to beat that race in the difficulty they choose and with the car they want.
Did not perceived any rubberbanding during the race, maybe it would have been different if I was able to take 1st spot.
The catch the rabbit mode remains a weird way to balance the race, not easy (for me) to pass carefully through traffic and avoid any incident and at the same time be fast enough to catch said rabbit.
With more consistent lap times I could easily get closer, but the slower laps are always when I have the most cars to pass. Not sure I can't count on getting really more consistent.
Worst is when they occupy all track width, I have to wait that they resolve their own overtake and be careful in case one of them ends up out of the track, his re-entry might well come with a bad timing for me.
- 1,538
- NRW - GT
Catch the rabbit looks weird, that's clear, but I think the idea behind it is that the vehicles don't have to drive so fast/well and it's easier to overtake them all.
Is it always the most elegant way? I think there are certainly more interesting ones, but if the cars were faster then some drivers would have even more problems winning.
Is it always the most elegant way? I think there are certainly more interesting ones, but if the cars were faster then some drivers would have even more problems winning.
Lomic
Premium
- 4,245
- Concarneau
- Lomic2
Here it is about the apparent fact that IA seems to have variable speeds and catches up suspiciously quickly under some circumstances. I have not noticed it myself so I don't know if it is a real thing or just an impression that some players have. Players are saying that some IAs seem to have variable lap times, being slow during part of the race, then giving everything to catch you back when you are in front.
As far as I've seen it, I had numerous occasions where I was able to take the lead quite quickly but an IA (that I've disposed long ago) managed to come back from the dead and gave me troubles on the end of the race. On that point, when I was objecting that I did not understand why it was slow and later on it was on steroids, some told me that this fast AI was having trouble to get rid of traffic, which allowed me to take the lead, but once it has cleared other IAs it was able to go full potential.
That explanation (and the rubberbanding) do not convince me 100%. I don't know what's happening.
It would be interesting to time the laps of a suspicious AI in replay to see if the lap times are genuine or not. In terms of displaying the fastest lap, I did not detect anything fishy and I am most of the holder of the best lap time displayed. But if it is really a hidden gameplay mechanism, the fishy lap times could be kept under the rug too.
In conclusion, I am sure of nothing
except that some things are a bit strange.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
That long video I posted is pretty much all suspicious behavior of the AI from the 4 minute mark on. Flying by when it feels like it needs to restore the 'order' after the AI all pitted, bumping from behind until they can barge past, pitting then being right behind again half a lap later and back markers sometimes just let you pass, other times speeding up as you're passing, sometimes coming from behind and fly by as they're falling too many laps behind. Just odd to get nearly driven off the road by a blue flag how is still blue flagged while disappearing in the distance in front of you.Here it is about the apparent fact that IA seems to have variable speeds and catches up suspiciously quickly under some circumstances. I have not noticed it myself so I don't know if it is a real thing or just an impression that some players have. Players are saying that some IAs seem to have variable lap times, being slow during part of the race, then giving everything to catch you back when you are in front.
As far as I've seen it, I had numerous occasions where I was able to take the lead quite quickly but an IA (that I've disposed long ago) managed to come back from the dead and gave me troubles on the end of the race. On that point, when I was objecting that I did not understand why it was slow and later on it was on steroids, some told me that this fast AI was having trouble to get rid of traffic, which allowed me to take the lead, but once it has cleared other IAs it was able to go full potential.
That explanation (and the rubberbanding) do not convince me 100%. I don't know what's happening.
It would be interesting to time the laps of a suspicious AI in replay to see if the lap times are genuine or not. In terms of displaying the fastest lap, I did not detect anything fishy and I am most of the time holder of the best lap time displayed. But if it is really a hidden gameplay mechanism, the fishy lap times could be kept under the rug too.
In conclusion, I am sure of nothing
Last night I did a 1 hour endurance race on Mount Panorama in the Mangusta against GR.4. It was a tight finish, I had the AI on my back for the last couple laps. The Mangusta has much better speed on the straight so I thought I had it in the bag. Yet a lapped car decided to put up a fight on Conrod straight. Speeding up as I cam along, not leaving room, almost pushing me off and battling me all the way to the pit lane. The AI that was actually still in the race (2nd place) caught up and I had to block him to keep the lead. At least he didn't have the boost and I managed to secure the victory.
It's all painfully obvious in endurance races. They go out ahead at the start, the front sometimes up to several minutes. On N24 the lead AI was over 5 minutes ahead early in that 8H race. First it's like herding. Every car you pass gets a boost and starts racing, trying to overtake the car in front of them. You're basically pushing the field together after it initially spread out in the first lap(s).
Then after a while they start slowing down one by one so you can move up the field into the position range you're allowed to be at for the stage of the race. That 'window' moves up to the front and by the end of the race you're left with the fast 3 up front, then 2, then one. The last one will cling on your bumper (unless you have a vastly faster car and get out ahead) and you can either let them pass so they lose the boost or drive flawlessly and defend any dive attempts the AI wants to make. Keep defending the inside as the AI will jump their car on your inside when ever it sees the chance. It's a dive bomb with magic brakes, they somehow manage to jump from a couple car lengths behind to suddenly next to you on the inside in the corner without shooting through and going wide.
Sometimes the AI screws up with its boost. Last night I also saw it happen that I got alongside the AI at the pit entry for a pass in the final corner. The AI suddenly speeds up trying to out drive me on the outside? But misses the corner entirely and goes wide into the wall. Sometimes they do get magic grip and easily out drive you along the outside in corners where it's simply not possible. Like overtaking along the outside in Karoussel while you're taking the corner flawlessly on the inside.
They are entertaining at least and if you can endure, they do back off towards the end and give you a chance at winning. It's more interesting then doing a time trial, and much easier than trying to find 19 other people willing do an endurance race. Plus against the AI you can pause as much as you like for bathroom brakes, dinner etc.
Just be careful when they indicate to pass (or rather indicate for the side the are going to stick to). If you don't back out and go on their other side they will push you off or pit manoever you if you keep going. They will do that also without them going into 'pass me' mode, sometimes they seem completely unaware of you and wander accross the road oblivious of your presence. Very annoying at Bathurst where their default is to drive in the middle on the straights. When you pass you risk getting pit manoevered as their car physics are different from yours. Their cars are on rails while yours is easily pushed aside. So if you overtake on the left and they were still slowly wandering left, they will spin you as you pass.
wakawakawaka
(Banned)
- 19
- France
I said "PD thinks" that AI racing is for newcomers/occasional players/kids.
Now y'all enjoy the game how you wanna enjoy it. I'm saying pointless races vs AI, there's a tiny bit more to GT than this. And I understand you're worried about everyone's feelings in here, but among my hundreds of friends in the game who are all pretty much GT hardcore players, I can assure you less than 1% cares about the quality of AI opposition. It's a non issue once you actually start "playing GT", do you have a problem with that fact?
Finally what does physics good or bad have to do with anything I said?
Scaff
Moderator
- 29,552
- He/Him
- ScaffUK
The issue is that it's not a universal fact, your friend base is not the limit of GT7's player base. Single-player is the main focus for players of GT7, that's evidenced by only 14.7% of players have completed a race in Sport mode
I understand that for you, AI isn't important, but for the 85% of people who don't race online it certainly is.
You claimed GT7 as a game made by perfectionists for perfectionists, as such any issues the title has would run counter to that, in reality, it's a series that has always been one of compromises, just as every title is.
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I assume you have a link to a quote of them saying something like that, then?
- 4,274
- New Zealand
- SkylineObsession
- Mangosaurus
While i'm not a fan of rubberbanding AI in the slightest, in past GT games i've managed to have some pretty fun and sometimes challenging races with the AI that EVERYONE says is horrible/the worst/extremely bad etc etc.
My way around the 'horrible/the worst/extremely bad etc etc' AI is to basically learn/take note of how they drive, how they react to things and then race with them/against them with that knowledge in mind. Even GT Sports AI was a lot more intelligent than a lot of other games, especially when it comes to collision avoidance.
Proof being right below (just after the hairpin early in the vid), where the R32 behind me makes an initial move to avoid a spun R34, then tightens the avoidance further to follow my path. In prior GT games, and many others, that R32 would have either braked to a stop or just plowed into the R34.
I know it's still not 'the best' but it's a heck of a lot better in some ways than it's ever been before in GT.
But the rubberbanding is definitely worse in the past few GT games, how they slow too much for you to catch up, or fly off ahead doing unbeatable lap times for a while.
GT has ALWAYS been about racing AI cars, as that was basically all you could do back in the early games (aside from tuning/modifying). For those of us who've been playing GT for over 20 years, AI has and continues to have a large influence in our game time.
There are a lot more things to do these days in GT (online racing, visual modifications, photo taking, livery making etc etc) but an essential, and still desirable, part of the game for many players in the single player offline AI racing.
You simply cannot attach 'made up' percentages (from your opinion) of how many people prefer anything other than racing AI, because it's impossible to know - even by using trophy lists (because some people may spend almost all their time taking photos or making liveries etc) to try figure out what a percentage of players are doing or not doing. Trophy percentages do give a good impression of what people are doing, but they still don't account for absolutely everyone, and they're more accurate than your imagined 1% stat.
So i can assure you, your 1% guess is highly and factually inaccurate. And you've got no easy way (aside from surveying all the hundreds of your friends) of proving you're right.
My way around the 'horrible/the worst/extremely bad etc etc' AI is to basically learn/take note of how they drive, how they react to things and then race with them/against them with that knowledge in mind. Even GT Sports AI was a lot more intelligent than a lot of other games, especially when it comes to collision avoidance.
Proof being right below (just after the hairpin early in the vid), where the R32 behind me makes an initial move to avoid a spun R34, then tightens the avoidance further to follow my path. In prior GT games, and many others, that R32 would have either braked to a stop or just plowed into the R34.
I know it's still not 'the best' but it's a heck of a lot better in some ways than it's ever been before in GT.
But the rubberbanding is definitely worse in the past few GT games, how they slow too much for you to catch up, or fly off ahead doing unbeatable lap times for a while.
GT has ALWAYS been about racing AI cars, as that was basically all you could do back in the early games (aside from tuning/modifying). For those of us who've been playing GT for over 20 years, AI has and continues to have a large influence in our game time.
There are a lot more things to do these days in GT (online racing, visual modifications, photo taking, livery making etc etc) but an essential, and still desirable, part of the game for many players in the single player offline AI racing.
You simply cannot attach 'made up' percentages (from your opinion) of how many people prefer anything other than racing AI, because it's impossible to know - even by using trophy lists (because some people may spend almost all their time taking photos or making liveries etc) to try figure out what a percentage of players are doing or not doing. Trophy percentages do give a good impression of what people are doing, but they still don't account for absolutely everyone, and they're more accurate than your imagined 1% stat.
So i can assure you, your 1% guess is highly and factually inaccurate. And you've got no easy way (aside from surveying all the hundreds of your friends) of proving you're right.
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- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
@SkylineObsession GT Sport's AI had its moment with avoidance, yet it seems that's no longer the case in GT7. I've seen the AI plow straight into cars, or brake and get stuck behind a slower car while there is plenty room to pass.
In GT Sport he AI seldom hit me, in GT7 I fear for my life when they get near lol. I had the weirdest race again where the front runners gave up and the back markers, several laps down, fought tooth and nail not to fall another lap further behind. They get such a massive boost that they speed up and disappear out ahead.
The collision avoidance from GT Sport seems mostly gone, often the AI isn't aware of your position at all and will simply drive you off, usually spin your car in the process since they are on rails or 10x more heavy compared to your car. What they do recognize is diving on their inside, then they either back off, or speed up and use a grip boost to speed around you on the outside.
It almost feels like the game can only pay attention to one AI at a time and the rest simply follow a path completely oblivious to what is happening around them.
The AI seems to operate in 3 states:
Often boost overtake mode kicks in as you are passing them while they are in pass me mode. You get alongside and suddenly they speed up, possibly cut you off and drive off ahead. Or sometimes they boost straight into the outside wall in a corner.
When they are in passive on rails mode, diving on their inside either triggers pass me mode or boost overtake mode. At least they see you and make some attempt to leave room.
Meanwhile they still brake too much in corners, can't deal with a wet track and cheat a lot to compensate, an pit strategies is completely unknown to them. Heck if the leaders fall 40 sec behind due to pitting, they'll make that gap up in a few minutes and are back behind you. Then you pit and they slow down to let you catch back up.
It's more entertaining than a time trial, but its the worst AI I've seen yet in a GT game. The only silver lining, it's still better than FH5's AI... I enjoyed DriveClub's AI back in the day. They were aggressive but fair and fun to race against. The rubberbanding and mode switches are too painfully obvious in GT7. Even when you get a bit of a duel going, they suddenly just give up and fall back, way back, or boost out ahead.
In GT Sport he AI seldom hit me, in GT7 I fear for my life when they get near lol. I had the weirdest race again where the front runners gave up and the back markers, several laps down, fought tooth and nail not to fall another lap further behind. They get such a massive boost that they speed up and disappear out ahead.
The collision avoidance from GT Sport seems mostly gone, often the AI isn't aware of your position at all and will simply drive you off, usually spin your car in the process since they are on rails or 10x more heavy compared to your car. What they do recognize is diving on their inside, then they either back off, or speed up and use a grip boost to speed around you on the outside.
It almost feels like the game can only pay attention to one AI at a time and the rest simply follow a path completely oblivious to what is happening around them.
The AI seems to operate in 3 states:
- Passive on rails mode, ignores you, doesn't see you.
- Pass me mode, puts out signal and sticks to that side. Beware if you're on the side they are signalling to, they will push you off.
- Boost overtake mode, they speed up, dive at you at every corner, will make contact and disappear ahead.
Often boost overtake mode kicks in as you are passing them while they are in pass me mode. You get alongside and suddenly they speed up, possibly cut you off and drive off ahead. Or sometimes they boost straight into the outside wall in a corner.
When they are in passive on rails mode, diving on their inside either triggers pass me mode or boost overtake mode. At least they see you and make some attempt to leave room.
Meanwhile they still brake too much in corners, can't deal with a wet track and cheat a lot to compensate, an pit strategies is completely unknown to them. Heck if the leaders fall 40 sec behind due to pitting, they'll make that gap up in a few minutes and are back behind you. Then you pit and they slow down to let you catch back up.
It's more entertaining than a time trial, but its the worst AI I've seen yet in a GT game. The only silver lining, it's still better than FH5's AI... I enjoyed DriveClub's AI back in the day. They were aggressive but fair and fun to race against. The rubberbanding and mode switches are too painfully obvious in GT7. Even when you get a bit of a duel going, they suddenly just give up and fall back, way back, or boost out ahead.
- 166
- Equalityland
Paragraph 2: It's easy to improve AI slightly and marginally, and it doesn't take much resources, but it takes time, and very many iterations and repetitions. By running the AI on the same track{s} and having the AI 'learning' to master a track, then the more difficult issue is fast response to other cars movements.
Also, why can't Polyphony code it so that players chose the car class and/or tires and/or PP levels of AI cars, this would help very much. If a decent/stable/dogmatic AI drove faster cars it would be more entertaining competition against the AI.
You are terribly wrong, I would pay twice the amount of money to have options to change not just my car and rules in a race but the AI cars functions and have grid start, that would be very fun. Livery and time trial and gold in licenses are always mostly boring.
The so-called 'cheaters' living rent-free in your head there..? The type of rubber-banding the OP and the rest of the thread refers to is clearly not this, but you just responded to the thread title without bothering to read anything. On the 'cheaters', I expect the next game update to include a new clause in the ToS that actually targets remote play / bot use because their ToS as it stands doesn't cover it in a way that's really enforcable.
I thought this, but looking at the below video it may just limit the game to a maximum of 8 cars.
(oh look, its our old friend Rolling Starts! -_-)
It looks like it also cheats though, just in different ways to the current AI - abusing flaws in the physics system, cutting corners, etc; it may also get the same rubber-band boost the AI gets at the moment. It looks unnatural in action, and that makes me wary.
When training AI, it will inherently find any flaws in your programming and abuse them because it doesn't know that they're flaws; example below. I think the Sony AI team may be overlooking these issues.
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- 1,322
- United Kingdom
- rodgers1
I don’t mind some of the races having rolling starts and the rubberbanding issue as it is a bit different, but I do have an issue with all races been like this on the cafe menu. Why couldn’t they mix it up with rolling and grid starts?
I tested the out the rubberbanding issue last week. I did a custom race at Spa in GT3 cars. 10 laps, race started in the wet and then dried at the end. Fuel and tyres were set to quite high to try and make it bit more interesting. AI pitted on lap 3/4 for fuel and to switch to dry tyres. I used fuel save and pitted on lap 6 for fuel and drys. I was catching the leading 2 cars and then on lap 9 about 10 seconds ahead they pitted again for fuel. I past them both and had about 30second lead. I start the final lap to see these 2 cars were flying round the track. I was doing the normal average lap time (about 1.50 I think) while they were doing 1.37 or something. 2nd place set the fast lap time 10-15 seconds quicker than me. Anyway it was clear these cars were going way faster then they was before I past them in the dry. Crossed the line with 2nd place only 7seconds behind me
I tested the out the rubberbanding issue last week. I did a custom race at Spa in GT3 cars. 10 laps, race started in the wet and then dried at the end. Fuel and tyres were set to quite high to try and make it bit more interesting. AI pitted on lap 3/4 for fuel and to switch to dry tyres. I used fuel save and pitted on lap 6 for fuel and drys. I was catching the leading 2 cars and then on lap 9 about 10 seconds ahead they pitted again for fuel. I past them both and had about 30second lead. I start the final lap to see these 2 cars were flying round the track. I was doing the normal average lap time (about 1.50 I think) while they were doing 1.37 or something. 2nd place set the fast lap time 10-15 seconds quicker than me. Anyway it was clear these cars were going way faster then they was before I past them in the dry. Crossed the line with 2nd place only 7seconds behind me
wakawakawaka
(Banned)
- 19
- France
perfection is not attainable, it is still made by perfectionists who don't care about stupid AI races for perfectionists who have better things to do than stupid AI races.
I haven't done a single race in sport mode yet, you're missing the point entirely. There are dozens other things to do in this game than stupid AI races, and for each of these things you can spend years chasing perfection. Get?
people who care about the AI are fine people, but really they've barely scratched the surface, or they wouldn't care.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
It's the same with players. I dared comment here that he cheated by cutting the corner
Full on the grass, but it gets applauded as a great move and got this response "most of the top guys are abusing that corner, and this is the top split so :shrugs:"
Which is a fundamental flaw in GT Sport and GT7, it's too easy to get away with cheating. And as long as penalties and track limits don't work as they're supposed to, people and Sophy will continue to abuse the system. At least the default AI sticks to the track
It's the same with players. I dared comment here that he cheated by cutting the corner
Full on the grass, but it gets applauded as a great move and got this response "most of the top guys are abusing that corner, and this is the top split so :shrugs:"
Which is a fundamental flaw in GT Sport and GT7, it's too easy to get away with cheating. And as long as penalties and track limits don't work as they're supposed to, people and Sophy will continue to abuse the system. At least the default AI sticks to the track
Reddit, proving itself to be a toxic cesspool once again - how dare you call someone out on their cutting of a corner!
This is the fourth GT game to include a penalty system (if memory serves), and it's somehow worse now than its first implementation. As you say, while the system is so poor as to fail to catch this blatant cheating there's really no hope for Sophy. Additionally, any changes to the track or penalty system to stop this type of cheating will result in Sophy needing to be retrained on the track from the ground up, which just means that fixes for this kind of flaw will be few and far between.
They also seem to be training the AI the wrong way; instead of building up skills in layers they've jumped straight to training it to get around the track as fast as possible with basic reinforcement learning, and that approach is going to bite them in the ass in the long run.
[e] I just realised that this (the overtake clip) actually goes against the PSN ToS more than the remote play / script autogrind does; it's literally abusing a bug or glitch in the game to gain an unfair advantage over other players in a multiplayer setting, lol.
Last edited:
SnuggleMaster
(Banned)
- 119
- United States
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