What is the best country for producing world class cars?

[Race Idiot]

Originally posted by M5Power
MALAYSIA.

Yeah, wherever that is.

 

[HRT_Maloo]

Originally posted by Race Idiot
Thats not stopped the Vauxhall Vectra.

How I hate that Vectra.

These days you can't really say that a single country produces the best cars, seeing as most companys are owned by others etc. Take the 350Z, made by a Japanese manufacturer, was designed in America (as far as my remembering what people said on topgear) and the engine unit was originaly sourced from Renault (don't they own nissan?).

So all in all, it's a real Japanese product.

WTF? The engine in the 350Z is originaly sourced from Renault?
First Ive ever heard of that. From what I undestand, its the VQ V6 which first appeared in 1994 (long before Renault had anything to do with Nissan) as a 3L and was in the top 10 engine awards for 9 years straight under Nissans name.

Got any links that say otherwise?

 

[Race Idiot]

Meh, fair enough I don't it was mentioned on a TV show.
I'm not bashing the enigne or anything, i'm just showing how allot of modern cars are not a product of a single nation. Other examples would be the Focus and the Yaris/Echo/Vitz crap thing.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by HRT_Maloo
WTF? The engine in the 350Z is originaly sourced from Renault?
First Ive ever heard of that. From what I undestand, its the VQ V6 which first appeared in 1994 (long before Renault had anything to do with Nissan) as a 3L and was in the top 10 engine awards for 9 years straight under Nissans name.

Got any links that say otherwise?

It is the VQ engine, and it's not Renault's. No guarantee from me that Renault didn't help develop it though.

 

[TsLeng]

Originally posted by Race Idiot
What country does Perodua come from?

Well that country gets my vote.

Yay! My country.
Anybody vote for Lotus? Proton owns it and Proton is Malaysia's first national car.

 

[Jay]

Australia

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by TsLeng
Yay! My country.
Anybody vote for Lotus? Proton owns it and Proton is Malaysia's first national car.

Lotus is still a British company.

"But Proton..."

Ford owns Volvo and nobody who's informed calls Volvo American.

 

[Quattro]

Originally posted by M5Power
Good point - BMW consistently outsells Audi and Mercedes in the US, the largest luxury market, but we'll just put that aside.

Uhmm... its not about how much they sell... a focus sells more than a 7 series.... so is it better??? Don't follow you there

and btw... in my country and neighbourcountries BMW doesn't outsell Audi and Merc

 

[GTA3 KING]

I regret to say germany as they manafacture porsche,audi,vw,bmw and mercedes
I like british cars like tvr speed 12 , aston martin vanquish and v8 vantage also 1 of my fav cars the jag xj220 though

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Quattro
Uhmm... its not about how much they sell... a focus sells more than a 7 series.... so is it better??? Don't follow you there

Do they compete?

I don't believe I have to explain stuff like that.

 

[Quattro]

Hmm hopeless....

 

[1X83Z]

Good point - well-worded, and well-made.

 

[Famine]

M5Power - In the UK the Vauxhall Corsa consistently outsells every other vehicle in it's class - including the New Ford Fiesta, the Honda Jazz, the Renault Clio, the Toyota Yaris, the "BMW" MINI. Is it the best? No - it's by far the worst of any of those cars. Poorly made, near-zero reliability, slow (only the Jazz, Fiesta and Corsa have no "sporty" model - except there is a Corsa badged "SRi" with chrome bits and lowered this'n'that which is STILL slower that a Jazz).

Sales volume in a particular market is no reliable indicator of a vehicles "good"-ness, only that it's the one people prefer to buy. The reason for the Corsa being a big hit is its cheapest to buy, cheapest to innsure and daddy buys it for his daughter when she passes her driving test.

It's not just the small hatch market where this is the case either - the Land Rover Freelander is the biggest selling small SUV (and consistently finishes LAST in JD Power surveys, below even the Perodua Kelisa). Check family saloons... The Mondeo & Vectra trade first place with each other (in a class with the new Accord, Laguna, Jaguar X Type, cheap-end 3-series and C-class) and the Vectra is close to the worst car EVER made.... How about supercars? The Porsche 911 Turbo outsells the Murcielago by 4 to 1. Which is better? I have no idea to be honest - but this figure can't be attributed to price alone... If you're buying a £100,000 Porsche, you probably won't be so bothered about buying a £150,000 Lamborghini.

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Famine

Sales volume in a particular market is no reliable indicator of a vehicles "good"-ness, only that it's the one people prefer to buy. The reason for the Corsa being a big hit is its cheapest to buy, cheapest to innsure and daddy buys it for his daughter when she passes her driving test.

In that class, it's easy to make excuses - for one, there's no money involved and people buy what's cheap. Those people are almost always non-car people too.

It's not just the small hatch market where this is the case either - the Land Rover Freelander is the biggest selling small SUV (and consistently finishes LAST in JD Power surveys, below even the Perodua Kelisa).

Brand bias - otherwise there's no reason for a Freelander. They are, in most classifications, the worst small SUV for sale here in the US, but people buy them - it's a Land Rover, and people with them are treated as if they have a Discovery.

Check family saloons... The Mondeo & Vectra trade first place with each other (in a class with the new Accord, Laguna, Jaguar X Type, cheap-end 3-series and C-class) and the Vectra is close to the worst car EVER made....

I've studied the British family sedan market a bit, and I can tell you that the low-end 3-series, C-class, and X-type are nothing for the mid and high-priced Vectras and Mondeos - the Vectras and Mondeos are have more kit, they're quicker to 62, and they're generally cheaper. The only reason the BMW, Jag, Lexus, and Mercedes are more is their name.

Also, fleet sales do a number for Vectras and Mondeos, as you know.

[edit]I see your point, though - I'm not even sure why I brought up the 'outselling' thing - but his argument is so baseless and stupid I thought he'd just shut up if I told him something. [/edit]

 

[bengee]

Originally posted by Quattro
The german cars... exept for BMW ... No real competetitor for the class of Audi and Mercedes

i thought this statement was funny...

there is no one country that produces the best world class cars or whatever... there are only companies that produce brilliant cars always... and then there are companies that mess up and produce great cars every once in a while... and then companies that produce ****...

anyways i think porsche is an amazing company...

 

[Famine]

Originally posted by M5Power
I've studied the British family sedan market a bit, and I can tell you that the low-end 3-series, C-class, and X-type are nothing for the mid and high-priced Vectras and Mondeos - the Vectras and Mondeos are have more kit, they're quicker to 62, and they're generally cheaper. The only reason the BMW, Jag, Lexus, and Mercedes are more is their name.

Also, fleet sales do a number for Vectras and Mondeos, as you know.

Just thought I'd point out that I agree with everything you just said - to the letter. But...

Clarkson pitted the 2.0 "F1 manufacturers" cars against each other - X-Type, 3-series (although I think it's a 2.3?), C200, Accord, Laguna, Vectra and Mondeo. The Mondeo won every class bar looks (Laguna). Then on the track... It blew everything else out of the water - 2s quicker on a 1'40 lap than a BMW!

 

[1X83Z]

Originally posted by Famine
Just thought I'd point out that I agree with everything you just said - to the letter. But...

Clarkson pitted the 2.0 "F1 manufacturers" cars against each other - X-Type, 3-series (although I think it's a 2.3?), C200, Accord, Laguna, Vectra and Mondeo. The Mondeo won every class bar looks (Laguna). Then on the track... It blew everything else out of the water - 2s quicker on a 1'40 lap than a BMW!

Exactly - checking the price lists, you see...

Mondeo ST220 Sedan: 0-62 in 7.5; 217bhp 3.0 V6; 27.7 MPG; 151 MPH - 21,475GBP
Vectra Elite: 0-62 in 7.0; 211bhp 3.2 V6; 28.0 MPG; 154 MPH - 20,950 GBP
C200K Classic: 0-62 in 9.1; 163bhp 2.0 I-4; 36.7 MPG; 145 MPH - 21,705 GBP
318i SE: 0-62 in 9.3; 143bhp 1.8 I-4; 39.2 MPG; 135 MPH - 21,155 GBP

No-brainer - the Mondeo and Vectra are as expensive, and loads quicker - the only thing they lose in is MPG (and, consequently, CO2). In order to get the others up to the speed of the Mondeo and Vectra, you'd need to pay 24,190 for a 325i or 30,285 for a C320 Elegance.