What TCS level closely resemble LMP cars?

[GrEn]

I'm surprised at how people here always talk about no TC blah blah well in fact racing cars do have TCS and other live aids in use. For those realistic sim drivers out there, what is a comparable TCS level in-game that corresponds to real life LMP's or any other classes of cars? I always use 1 and that's sufficient enough for me but I heard that LMP cars use higher levels especially for those fast corners that lead to straightaways. Thanks.

 

[McClarenDesign]

Haven't driven a real LMP for comparison, and am not sure if anyone here has. Without that experience, it's hard to tell.

 

[Samus]

Also the numbers in GT5 wont' match the real world, so even if you found out the number they used, using the same number in GT5 wouldn't mean it was the same.

The switch for it is in this picture, the one just to far right of the gear shift paddle on the right hand side, labelled ASR. It goes up to at least 10 on there, the Audi R10.

On the R18, it's just a button on the wheel itself (ASR)

So in short, just use it as you see fit because unless you can converse with an LMP driver that can tell you how each setting feels, you'll never match it simply on numbers.

 

[ItsHim]

Don't they run adjustable TCS? I'm no LMP geek but I seem to remember that from a RLM broadcast. Also I seem to remember the GT3 Corvettes came with adjustable TCS on a scale from 1 to 10?

Anyway, to me TCS from 1-3 feels "right" and helps a great deal saving the tyres.

 

[Stradivis]

So in short, just use it as you see fit because unless you can converse with an LMP driver that can tell you how each setting feels, you'll never match it simply on numbers.

Well, actually some GT Academy winners now drive LMP2 cars. Maybe they could provide us with some more information about the subject? As for LMP cars, we can always hope someone can find some useful info. I couldn't.

 

[Samus]

Well, actually some GT Academy winners now drive LMP2 cars. Maybe they could provide us with some more information about the subject? As for LMP cars, we can always hope someone can find some useful info. I couldn't.

They could provide you with info about the LMP2 car they drive, but each car/team will have a slightly different system. So again, a '5' in their Nissan might not be the same strength as a '5' in a 2002 Audi.

 

[Jav]

TCS on a real race car is way too complex and managed on a completely different way to what is modeled in GT5, so comparing the 2 is pointless.

Here:

 

[GTFOREVER]

yeah I only have the TC on with LMP's because if I don't I just burn the rear tires I keep it about 2-3 depending on the car.

 

[Stradivis]

They could provide you with info about the LMP2 car they drive, but each car/team will have a slightly different system. So again, a '5' in their Nissan might be the same strength as a '5' in a 2002 Audi.

Maybe, but what are the regulations of the ACO regarding TCS? If we can come with a max value, maybe it can help a bit.

 

[grog]

TCS on a real race car is way too complex and managed on a completely different way to what is modeled in GT5, so comparing the 2 is pointless.

Exactly my thoughts, its like comparing apples and oranges.
Great video too.

 

[Stradivis]

TCS on a real race car is way too complex and managed on a completely different way to what is modeled in GT5, so comparing the 2 is pointless.

Here:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcMhQGLF604">YouTube Link</a>

For a similar experience one should use TCS and adjust the LCD too?

 

[Jav]

For a similar experience one should use TCS and adjust the LCD too?

In my honest opinion, no aids.

 

[JohnyPiston]

TCS on a real race car is way too complex and managed on a completely different way to what is modeled in GT5, so comparing the 2 is pointless.

Here:

Ok, now that you have shown us what the real system is like, and have determined that its "way too complex" supposedly as compared to how its done in GT5, please can you either supply us with the videos or info that can tell us how the developers implemented it in GT5?

You have appeared to provide one side of the comparison ...but have no info on just how complex the GT5 version is or is not. Sorry, I am having a hard time understanding the reason why you think the GT5 version is less complex?

 

[Bluntified]

Ok, now that you have shown us what the real system is like, and have determined that its "way too complex" supposedly as compared to how its done in GT5, please can you either supply us with the videos or info that can tell us how the developers implemented it in GT5?

You have appeared to provide one side of the comparison ...but have no info on just how complex the GT5 version is or is not. Sorry, I am having a hard time understanding the reason why you think the GT5 version is less complex?

I'm pretty sure its because the TCS in GT5 is a general system for all cars (as with tires and other things). TCS in real life vary from car to car. To implement real life specs in GT5, they would have to go car to car to achieve this.

 

[amar212]

I am having a hard time understanding the reason why you think the GT5 version is less complex?

Not a single commercial game in existence can successfully *mimic* the behaviour of the real-life suspension and tires, not even to speak about driving assists - which are assisting factor to suspension and tires.

Read this first:
http://www.h-engineering.nl/uploads/Tires in race simulations 20120209.pdf

And than you'll understand why everything we can experience in video-games is just *artistic portrayal* of the real-world occurrings we know as *sensation of driving the car*.

Also, all *driving assists* in all games are not even trying to mimic their real-life counterparts. Either ABS, TCS, ASM or whatever - they are either dumbing down the complexity of physics-model or introducing buffers in order to compensate for the mistakes in driving.

Of course, I am the happiest man alive with the current state of physics, visuals, sounds and force-feedback technology in the genre - 20 years ago I couldn't even dream we will come this far in representation of the driving sensation - but we are still decades far from experiencing what professional simulation software at majority of car's manufacturers simulators achieves when paired with 7-digits mechanical simulators.

Those type of simulators can probably mimic the real-life behavior of both suspension and tyres and driving assists (those at Mercedes-Benz and Volvo most notably), but such software/hardware will never reach *gaming* usage. Even if we get such complex software being commercially introduced to simulations of the future, we will probably never be able to get full-scale mechanical simulators needed to achieve proper level of immersion with the physics model.

Enjoy what we have today. It was absolutely unimaginable back in the 1992 for instance. And do not use assists in any games. They're only slowing you down and take so much away from beautiful and completely astonishing existing levels of simulation that we can have in games today.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Not a single commercial game in existence can successfully *mimic* the behaviour of the real-life suspension and tires, not even to speak about driving assists - which are assisting factor to suspension and tires.

Also, all *driving assists* in all games are not even trying to mimic their real-life counterparts. Either ABS, TCS, ASM or whatever - they are either dumbing down the complexity of physics-model or introducing buffers in order to compensate for the mistakes in driving.

Enjoy what we have today. It was absolutely unimaginable back in the 1992 for instance. And do not use assists in any games. They're only slowing you down and take so much away from beautiful and completely astonishing existing levels of simulation that we can have in games today.

Well said Amar:tup: I glad there are GTP members here who share the same view and preference .

 

[Santos i7]

In my honest opinion, no aids.

Did you not read the thread at all?

Like somebody else said, 1-3 usually seems fitting. Although, alot of it really depends one which LMP you're using and what track you're on.

 

[Bluntified]

Did you not read the thread at all?

Like somebody else said, 2-3 usually seems fitting. Although, alot of it really depends one which LMP you're using and what track you're on.

That's why he stated, "I my honest opinion". Its his opinion, everyone's entitled to one.

I rarely use aides also, am I wrong for doing so?

 

[Santos i7]

I don't care what aids you use, but the OP asked for the most realistic experience after stating that real LMP's use TCS, then he just says to not use it at all. Which is obviously not the most realistic option.

 

[JohnyPiston]

Not a single commercial game in existence can successfully *mimic* the behaviour of the real-life suspension and tires, not even to speak about driving assists - which are assisting factor to suspension and tires.

Read this first:
http://www.h-engineering.nl/uploads/Tires in race simulations 20120209.pdf

And than you'll understand why everything we can experience in video-games is just *artistic portrayal* of the real-world occurrings we know as *sensation of driving the car*.

Also, all *driving assists* in all games are not even trying to mimic their real-life counterparts. Either ABS, TCS, ASM or whatever - they are either dumbing down the complexity of physics-model or introducing buffers in order to compensate for the mistakes in driving.

Of course, I am the happiest man alive with the current state of physics, visuals, sounds and force-feedback technology in the genre - 20 years ago I couldn't even dream we will come this far in representation of the driving sensation - but we are still decades far from experiencing what professional simulation software at majority of car's manufacturers simulators achieves when paired with 7-digits mechanical simulators.

Those type of simulators can probably mimic the real-life behavior of both suspension and tyres and driving assists (those at Mercedes-Benz and Volvo most notably), but such software/hardware will never reach *gaming* usage. Even if we get such complex software being commercially introduced to simulations of the future, we will probably never be able to get full-scale mechanical simulators needed to achieve proper level of immersion with the physics model.

Enjoy what we have today. It was absolutely unimaginable back in the 1992 for instance. And do not use assists in any games. They're only slowing you down and take so much away from beautiful and completely astonishing existing levels of simulation that we can have in games today.

Yes, but I have not compared the GT version to real life, nor have I made a comparison or made statements that indicate that I think the GT version mimics real life. What I did question was the basis on which the complexity of it was determined. And even now that question is not answered. You have supplied me with a very detailed explanation of the complexities of simulating tire wear - do we have any documentation where the GT developers explain their pains with coming up with the traction control model?

Look, in general I am sort of in agreement with you. Real life is complex and coming up with solutions to issues like tire slip must require complex solutions. However, as a developer and architect of software solutions all I am asking is why there is a perception that the GT model is not complex even in comparison with the real systems. Personally, I would not be surprised if, thanks to the technicalities of simulation, it is even more complex than the real life versions. Ofcourse, that does not mean I think it is any more efficient or effective. In fact I do not use it on any car because just like the real life counterpart, it slows you down on the race track.

 

[ItsHim]

do not use assists in any games. They're only slowing you down and take so much away from beautiful and completely astonishing existing levels of simulation that we can have in games today.

In the same way active steering slows you down in the time trials?

While I agree with you that it can add to the fun side of the game, a dash of TCS or ABS does at least improve my times with higher powered RWD cars and saves tyres a great deal. As much as finishing an additional lap on the Nordschleife.

Anyway I've never seen proof assists slow you down. If they would, what's the point in banning them in online play?

 

[Stradivis]

Jav,

Since LMP cars IRL have TCS, the question is which in game setting mostly replicates that. I guess at this point we are all aware that the assists presented in the game do not represent perfect replicas of their real life counterparts. However, I don't think no aids is the better solution when using those high powered racing beasts.

 

[Bluntified]

In the same way active steering slows you down in the time trials?

While I agree with you that it can add to the fun side of the game, a dash of TCS or ABS does at least improve my times with higher powered RWD cars and saves tyres a great deal. As much as finishing an additional lap on the Nordschleife.

Anyway I've never seen proof assists slow you down. If they would, what's the point in banning them in online play?

Separates the men from the boys, if you can't handle your car, you fall behind. Driving with them takes some of the competition and challenge out of it. Any noob can take the fastest car, turn on all aides to the max, and drive side by side with the best driver that's not using aides. This doesn't mean he's a good driver, with all the aides, the car's basically driving itself.

 

[jaycee_xr3]

Separates the men from the boys, if you can't handle your car, you fall behind. Driving with them takes some of the competition and challenge out of it. Any noob can take the fastest car, turn on all aides to the max, and drive side by side with the best driver that's not using aides. This doesn't mean he's a good driver, with all the aides, the car's basically driving itself.

Not the happier choice of words, but I must agree with the general concept 👍

 

[grog]

This question really has no definative answer.

But if you take what everyone has said you can boil it down to this: Yes they use traction controll but the settings vary from car to car driver to driver. So all we can definitively say is that they use it not how they use it.

 

[ghsnu]

Never knew LMP's had TCS - I always assumed they were nut heads who ran without any assists...or I'm thinking of the F1 guys...or rally guys (who are nuts period).

This leads me to wonder - did the older LMP cars like the 787B have any aids?

 

[HKS racer]

I don't care what aids you use, but the OP asked for the most realistic experience after stating that real LMP's use TCS, then he just says to not use it at all. Which is obviously not the most realistic option.

Well, we don't know how a real LMP feels like with or without TCS. What if it's more realistic with no aids because real life *physics* it's more slipery?

Look, in certain tracks with GT5 you can run several seconds faster compared to real life, myabe this is a hint GT5 physics is easier, maybe not but what Jav said makes sense to me.

It also depends on the hardware you have, if you have DFGT pedals going with TCS 1 or 2 while using a Toyota Minolta is not a bad idea. You'll save tyres as someone mentioned.

 

[Furinkazen]

I just run at level 1.

 

[amar212]

I also had to add to this discussion how great amount of *mechanical* TCS can be added through adjusting the LSD.

So I would go that far and say that proper adjustment of Initial Slip and Acceleration Slip would probably lead to closest resemblance of the real-life TCS used by race cars.

 

[McClarenDesign]

I also had to add to this discussion how great amount of *mechanical* TCS can be added through adjusting the LSD.

So I would go that far and say that proper adjustment of Initial Slip and Acceleration Slip would probably lead to closest resemblance of the real-life TCS used by race cars.

I've never thought of an LSD that way, only for cornering. It makes sense.

Thanks, Amar.