What would you guys make of a Track Creator?

[kroneage]

You all seem to forget that the PS3 supports mouse and keyboard in-game... it's just that no company has chosen to support the feature thus-far other than Unreal Tournament 3 (the excuse is that the games it would be most beneficial for: FPS and RTS, this kind of feature would unbalance multiplayer). Unreal Tournament 3's in-game Kb/mouse support for PS3 was half-assed though (pretty much the whole game was a half assed POS). I'm still waiting on a decent game that supports this revolutionary feature for consoles properly.

On top of that, as somebody else mentioned, go look at the crazy amounts of high quality user created content and maps for Unreal Tournament games, Halflife 2, Quake, and many others - with a decent amount of them using in-game assets. To create a racetrack you would not need as much user created assets as you would an FPS map, because most FPS maps are set in predominantly manmade environments - whereas most racetracks are set in more natural environments where assets like trees, grass, and textures can simply be generated with random variables. Then you have your terrain deformation and track angles and such that the user sets up themselves also using variables.

Also, I've got to mention I've created some pretty cool skate parks back in the days of the Tony Hawks Pro-Skater games on PS1 when I was younger. The editor in those games became fairly evolved and easy to use, yet in-depth, even for it's time.

 

[Wolfe]

Thing is, if they have some sort of track creator, it won't be a snap-together dealie-o. I imagine that you'd create the terrain, then texture the trackwork, define what's road and what's sand, what's grass, and so on, add curbs, scenery, barriers, (virtual and real,) timing marks, environments....

You'll drive yourself nuts when you complete four hours worth of work and what worked before doesn't work with your new addons. You'll spend more time hunting down the bug, and by the time all is said and done, you'll be worn out, crabby, tired, and several months to a year will have passed, especially if your project is something epic like the Nurburgring.

Sorry, Jim, but a commercially-published developer of a popular franchise will never offer a track editor of that caliber, especially for a console, and especially a corporate-owned developer like Polyphony Digital. A little-known PC developer with a bona fide sim? Sure. But not something like Gran Turismo. Too much effort and bug-testing (which they would have to do ahead of time, making every possible design work -- not you, the player) for something a very small percentage of people will use.

A basic snap-together dealie-o is exactly what I would expect in this case, and exactly what I had in mind when I saw the thread title. Some predefined 90 degree turns and basic straights, maybe a 45 degree turn if we're lucky, maybe a handful of backdrops/environments to choose from...the "create-a-route" idea that's being passed around in this thread is a much better idea, IMO, but I wouldn't expect gamers to swoon over it.

 

[Falcon787B]

Im surprised nobody's mentioned the obvious problem - AI mapping. The PD AI are dumb enough as it is on tracks theyre programmed to go around anyway, can you imagine how glitchy theyd be if they were asked to drive fast cars around a bodged together DIY track?
This is just my view IMO.

 

[Wolfe]

If the track creator were simplistic, the AI would probably know exactly how the track's layed out. If the track creator were sophisticated, it would probably have a tool to set/adjust the AI racing line.

Or the create-a-tracks could be time-trial and/or 2-player only. Point is, I don't think you have to worry about PD releasing a game that glitchy.

 

[balang_479]

However cool this feature would be it will never be included in a GT... PD could not have poor quality tracks in its game and the internet would be swarming with poor creations and stuff and it would turn into a youtube mess.... plus all the AI would be bad and so many things...

 

[buickgnx88]

Eh the best sort of creator that could be in GT5 would be just a large paved area, where you can place cones and make your own gymkhana course.

 

[Lemminkainen]

Okay- wait, wait, I have an idea...

How about a track creator that just creates tracks based on pre-existing maps from google or mapquest or whatever. I hear that the PSP is getting a map tool for it's GPS someday so maybe Sony already has the world's maps available in their own software...

Anyway, you could do an autocross (point to point) or pick a seris of roads that connect back together to make an actual looped track, all from an existing map anywhere in the world...

So what about backgrounds?

Simple - just do a series of pre-fab simple backgrounds to choose from. After all, it's the road that's the important thing, right? You could choose from Alpine (fall, spring, etc), desert, chapparal, plains, etc. Maybe you even choose the road surface- smooth, medium, rough, dirt, snow, rain...

So you sit down, choose Decker Canyon Rd. from PCH up until it ends, choose "scrub brush & oak tree" background, choose "medium pavement", and then get all your friends to join you in a real race online with no chances of killing yourself as you fly off the cliff!

Simple. Doable.

It'll never happen. PD has too many other things to work on. I don't want the game delayed until 2013.

 

[Patrik]

What's with all the kids who wants a track creator!?

This is Gran Turismo. Go play Track Mania or something if you wanna create tracks.

 

[Dave A]

Is there anything wrong with wanting a track creator? And what did you expect exactley in a thread about a track creator. I'm not a kid but I love to spend time being creative, expecially when cars are concerned. Creating a great road or track to drive/race them on depending on how deep the editor is and at the same time intuitive to use it could be fantastic. Not that I expect a track creator to be included, but it would still be a nice addition, so what's with the attitude.

 

[Krymzen18]

A track editor?? Why would you want that in a game like Gran Turismo? Out of all the ideas that have been posted on GTPlanet, that is probably the most single stupid one i've read.
Have any of you guys played LittleBigPlanet online? Almost all of the user created levels are crap. I would say around 2% of online levels are decent to play. You do need creative talent to create a good level on that game.
Now imagine trying to create a track on Gran Turismo that's worth your time racing on. The guys and girls at Polyphony spend months and months creating one track. And creating them in computers with the proper, professional hardware and software.
You want Polyphony to spend more time creating some sort of software to condense all this down, and make it usable for the PS3. And most people don't have a computer that could cope with such software that Polyphony use, so that's out of the question. Most people haven't got the creativity needed to build a good track anyway.

 

[Krymzen18]

If this was for creating tracks for GT1, this idea might be possible. Might. But this is Gran Turismo 5, on the PS3. This is one of the most complicated games ever made when you think about it deeply enough. So this really isn't possible.

And anyway, I would't want a track editor. I want to be racing and driving, not making tracks. Let Polyphony's creative genius's do that. Cos they can obviously do it well. I want to race!!

 

[Peter]

That would take up a lot of memory which could be used for more of the good cars and tracks and other stuff you would want. What do you all think? To create your own track or to have more options with everything else?

 

[Patrik]

Is there anything wrong with wanting a track creator?

Yes, when it comes to Gran Turismo.

And what did you expect exactley in a thread about a track creator.

There are already one or two threads about including track creators in GT5. That's what I meant.

I'm not a kid but I love to spend time being creative, expecially when cars are concerned. Creating a great road or track to drive/race them on depending on how deep the editor is and at the same time intuitive to use it could be fantastic. Not that I expect a track creator to be included, but it would still be a nice addition, so what's with the attitude.

Of course it can be fun to create tracks of different kinds. But just face it, Gran Turismo is not the correct game to do so in. PD haven't even let us repaint the cars for christ sake.

As I said, play Track Mania or something (I'm sure there are other games containing track editors as well).

 

[Kryz11]

Track Creator. I don't know. Do we really need 1000+ tracks? If you want track creator.. stick to PC sim racing games... and yeah 1 out of every 10 new tracks are worthy of Download. So we would see a lot of crap that could be HUGE in DOWNLOAD not worth the time and HDD space. As well not worth PD to spend additional 1000 hours just to make a creator and tools.

 

[G.T.Ace]

I always wanted a track editor. lol

Never expected it though, but i would love it.
It would give you unlimited amount of racetracks and you could rebuild real tracks that arent in the game. As a kid, i have drawn a lot of curcuits, i think some of the designs would make some cool tracks.

 

[TheCracker]

I always wanted a track editor. lol

Never expected it though, but i would love it.
It would give you unlimited amount of racetracks and you could rebuild real tracks that arent in the game. As a kid, i have drawn a lot of curcuits, i think some of the designs would make some cool tracks.

I agree 👍 - i'd love a track creator. I can't see PD implementing one anytime soon though, it's not their style to release anything half-baked. It's not so much the track surfaces and edge detailing that would be hard to do, it would be producing all the bit's inside or outside a circuit's perimeter that would be hard to build upto PD's usual standards. Think about all the non-track scenery at Trial Mountain, El Capitan or Grand Valley, how long would that take to model?

 

[G.T.Ace]

Well if you could choose out of 5 relative neutral backgrounds it wouldnt be a problem.
I would spend hours and hours on it and everyone who who say "most levels will be crap anyway": Is there anyone forcing you to download these tracks?

Just imagine what some creative people could achieve with a good sandbox editor.

 

[balang_479]

You would never have time rankings and stuff... it would be crap, so many tracks, everything a mess with rubbish tracks everywhere.... it will turn into an Internet mess... the usual crappy Youtube mess...

 

[RedOak]

Making professional-quality tracks takes months of work... i'd rather PD don't go that route... seeing the level of **** this would create...

Instead, i'd like to have a "Replay" editor... place your cameras, edit the replay, set song... and record it for submission...

 

[RAVELLRON]

i hope will not came a track editor... to much tracks confusion on the net....
and 99% of them will be awful made...

 

[seanyb505]

Like someone said earlier, if you want a track editor, go play Rollercoaster Tycoon. Ill be angry if I see wasted space like that on GT5. If they were to do it, I think it would be a better idea to sell an indivdual disk, and just use your cars from the memory.

 

[Dave A]

Yes, when it comes to Gran Turismo.

Why?

There are already one or two threads about including track creators in GT5. That's what I meant.

Fair enough.

Of course it can be fun to create tracks of different kinds. But just face it, Gran Turismo is not the correct game to do so in.

Why not?

PD haven't even let us repaint the cars for christ sake.

So, that doesn't mean they shouldn't and it doesn't have any bearing on the topic in hand.

As I said, play Track Mania or something (I'm sure there are other games containing track editors as well).

Hardly comparable to GT though is it. Track mania is good if you arn't into realism, but if you wanted to race real cars with a decent physics engine behind them then why not.

Track Creator. I don't know. Do we really need 1000+ tracks? If you want track creator.. stick to PC sim racing games...

Why, what is so wrong with the idea of a console game having a track creator.

and yeah 1 out of every 10 new tracks are worthy of Download. So we would see a lot of crap that could be HUGE in DOWNLOAD not worth the time and HDD space.

So, no one forces you to download any of it. It just gives you choice if you want to or not and it gives people who like to create tracks the chance to create them.

As well not worth PD to spend additional 1000 hours just to make a creator and tools.

Hardly. PD already have the tools, they don't need creating. They just need organising and packaging in a nice userfriendly program. Wouldn't take long to do at all.

Well if you could choose out of 5 relative neutral backgrounds it wouldnt be a problem.

It wouldn't PD could easilly have the game auto-generate background scenery from the library of already modelled stands, buildings and barriers etc. I wouldn't expect anytihng on a level of Seattle scenery wise, it'd be more generic than that if they went down this route, but it would simplify the editor to only laying out the track which can be very easy to do and choosing the secenery type and track surfaces.

I would spend hours and hours on it and everyone who who say "most levels will be crap anyway": Is there anyone forcing you to download these tracks?

I would, especially if they allowed the PS3 to use enough RAM to make tracks similar in lenth to the Ring.

Just imagine what some creative people could achieve with a good sandbox editor.

Exactley.

Making professional-quality tracks takes months of work... i'd rather PD don't go that route... seeing the level of **** this would create...

It may create **** but no one is forcing you to use it. On the flip side it will create some good quality too. Again no one would force you to use it. It would be people making tracks in their own spare time, in thier own homes.

Instead, i'd like to have a "Replay" editor... place your cameras, edit the replay, set song... and record it for submission...

I'd like that too, but why the one or the other school of thought. There's no reason we couldn't have both.

Like someone said earlier, if you want a track editor, go play Rollercoaster Tycoon. Ill be angry if I see wasted space like that on GT5. If they were to do it, I think it would be a better idea to sell an indivdual disk, and just use your cars from the memory.

Wasted space, what wasted space would this feature create. Please enlighten me. Any space used would be minimal, very very minimal.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Far Cry 2 and LittleBigPlanet already show that you can do some amazing stuff this gen, editor wise. And they also show how creative some people are.

With the negative arguments here, games like rFactor would also sh'', because they need a modding community.

 

[Patrik]

Why?

Because that's my opinion.

Hardly comparable to GT though is it. Track mania is good if you arn't into realism, but if you wanted to race real cars with a decent physics engine behind them then why not.

As some have said already. It will be a mess.. A lot of crappy, undetailed tracks and so on.

I mean... it's just... stupid... What's the point really? Yeah, you may think it's fun to create tracks, but there are other games for that. Or if you want to create tracks in GT so badly, search for a job at PD.

What I enjoy about a racing/driving simulator like GT is to race around real life race tracks.

Be honest. Do you really really REALLY think a track creator is PD's cup of tea?

 

[G.T.Ace]

What I enjoy about a racing/driving simulator like GT is to race around real life race tracks.

So every original Gran Turismo track is useless?
You know there are a lot of tracks in the game that dont exsist in real life....

And why do you compare a in-game track editor with programming like a dev team does?
Do you have any idea how a race course gets modeled, programmed, textured and so on?
Beside that its really doubtful to get a job at Polyphony especially when youre not living in Japan.

You still didnt gave a real argument why you dont want it to be in the game.
Saying "because its my opinion" is childish.

 

[buickgnx88]

I wouldn't mind it in the game, it's just the work involved to incorporate it would make releasing the game take even longer (though if they made it after the game was released and offered it as DLC, then it wouldn't be a problem.)

 

[RedOak]

Hardly. PD already have the tools, they don't need creating. They just need organising and packaging in a nice userfriendly program. Wouldn't take long to do at all.

I'm sorry Dave, I respect you a lot, but what you just mentionned here is totally wrong. Tracks created for GT5 are probably done in Maya or Max3Dxx, not in a "level editor". Furthermore, creating a LEd, with usable interface on a controler and debuging it alone, would take near a year... especially to the level of quality induced in GT5 content. Furthermore, when you create a level editor, all the assets accessible in it must be generic and not be customized assets for a specific location... in other words, any textures, mesh and "uber objets" must all be compatible with every other in order to be used freely, else you end up with a few objects that just can't be used at all.

On FarCry Instinct (one of the best console-generated level editor to date- coincidentally the same tech as Farcry2), it took more than a year to develop and implement in the game. It was part of the original design and intention of the game.

Level editors are literally Sinkholes for companies... some do them out of their heart for their fans, but generally, its engine-supported (Unreal, Crytek...) or its third-party built (Bob's track builder...). There's a reason why "SDK"s take up to a year to be released after shipping...

Sorry for the long post, but it must be understood that a LEd is not easy business.

Cheers,

 

[G.T.Ace]

@buickgnx88: Well that is an argument, but if its implemented well and really good, i could wait for it.
But the whole discussion is actually pointless, we will never get a track editor.

 

[Patrik]

So every original Gran Turismo track is useless?
You know there are a lot of tracks in the game that dont exsist in real life....

Yes I know... And no I don't enjoy the Gran Turismo as much as the real life ones.

 

[rofajole]

If there's a track editor I want something basic. Something like you can find in Live For Speed, where you just put up cones and barriers on an open track, like a parking lot, however , it would be huge